SergeModular

Ok final questions from me for a while (trying to make some decisions
about my next serge purchases)

I have had a few frequency shifters in different formats and really
like setting them for really slow modulations and output the up and
down shifts fully panned left and right. sometimes this can create
really nice slow panning/shifting effects. I've never really cared
much for the high frequency ring modulator like sounds.

1-I've never own a modular phaser, would I be able to get similar
effects with the serge dual Phaser? can someone that have both compare
the similarities and differences?

2-How slow can the frequency shifter go with and without cv's applied,
and does the sound kill?

Not an answer to your questions, but...

That is a great patch!

On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 5:48 PM, Bill Felton <bill@...> wrote:

Not an answer to your questions, but...

I find my Serge Frequency Shifter to be an essential tool for sound design.

The 'killer app' for me is the ability to use it with a variable slope filter as follows:

Take a signal into the VSF

Take the lo-pass out of the VSF to an audio mixer (or the hi-pass or the bandpass)

Take the hi-pass out to the FreqShifter (or the lo-pass or the bandpass)

Take the downshift out into the mixer (or the upshift)

You have shifted the cut-out frequencies and mixed them back into the lowpass output. Use the frequency control to shift the boundary point. Use the slope control to vary the 'onset' of the shifted harmonics.

Modulate to suit

Possibly wise to leave word with someone to check on you if you don't surface after a few days :-)

cheers,

Bill

On Feb 3, 2009, at 4:10 PM, Carlos wrote:

Ok final questions from me for a while (trying to make some decisions
about my next serge purchases)

I have had a few frequency shifters in different formats and really
like setting them for really slow modulations and output the up and
down shifts fully panned left and right. sometimes this can create
really nice slow panning/shifting effects. I've never really cared
much for the high frequency ring modulator like sounds.

1-I've never own a modular phaser, would I be able to get similar
effects with the serge dual Phaser? can someone that have both compare
the similarities and differences?

2-How slow can the frequency shifter go with and without cv's applied,
and does the sound kill?

>
> I have had a few frequency shifters in different formats and really
> like setting them for really slow modulations and output the up and
> down shifts fully panned left and right. sometimes this can create
> really nice slow panning/shifting effects. I've never really cared
> much for the high frequency ring modulator like sounds.

Wow, that's pretty uncommon considering there aren't that many
different ones (let alone good ones) out there.
But yes, some of the more interesting sounds come from small changing
shifts with feedback.

I have the external carrier one, which is quite rare. I think only
Buchla built one besides Serge & Rex.

On the other hand the nature of the effect is that a sine carrier
delivers the more subtle, less drastic sounds

> 1-I've never own a modular phaser, would I be able to get similar
> effects with the serge dual Phaser? can someone that have both compare
> the similarities and differences?

Well they are not very similar. A phaser is a series of all-pass
filters that leave notches in the sound when mixed with a dry signal.

As a note, I don't have a Serge Phaser so I don't know how relatively
deep sounding it is.

The Serge module gives you two independent phasers each with a rare
tap out at a different point that is less phase changed than the
final output for feedback potential and stereo differences. So the
modular aspect lets you modulate the phase change with something
external unlike say a pedal phaser, which usually has very limited
modulation sources and no ability to sync up with the same modulation
source as something else.

In comparison Doepfer has a really wild (though not initially as
deep sounding as some) vactrol based phaser with tap points and pots
on every stage. In other words, rather space consuming but very
thoroughly patched out.

Neither Serge module has a dedicated feedback path but that's really
not a minus in that you have more options in creating your own.

Nick

Thanks!

>As a note, I don't have a Serge Phaser so I don't know how relatively
>deep sounding it is.
>
>The Serge module gives you two independent phasers each with a rare
>tap out at a different point that is less phase changed than the
>final output for feedback potential and stereo differences. So the
>modular aspect lets you modulate the phase change with something
>external unlike say a pedal phaser, which usually has very limited
>modulation sources and no ability to sync up with the same modulation
>source as something else.
>
>In comparison Doepfer has a really wild (though not initially as
>deep sounding as some) vactrol based phaser with tap points and pots
>on every stage. In other words, rather space consuming but very
>thoroughly patched out.
>
>Neither Serge module has a dedicated feedback path but that's really
>not a minus in that you have more options in creating your own.

I'm pretty sure the Doepfer phaser IS the Serge design. I have seen both, As
mentioned, you need to add your own feedback path, and with the Serge one,
the feedback path can be from a different stage to the one chosen to use as
an output.

Ken
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone sasami@... otherunicorn@...
Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.cgs.synth.net/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>

> I'm pretty sure the Doepfer phaser IS the Serge design. I have seen
> both, As
> mentioned, you need to add your own feedback path, and with the
> Serge one,
> the feedback path can be from a different stage to the one chosen
> to use as
> an output.

That's interesting to know. So the Serge is vactrol-based then? Maybe
the Serge design was published in Synapse?
In any event Doepfer has all 12 stages tapped out with outs and ins
and can function as 2 separate 6 stage phasers but will normalize
into 1.

Each of the 2 Serge phasers taps one middle stage (different on each
phaser) as well as the standard final stage. The only signal in point
is the first stage.
I'm sure a cross-feedback path using both phasers and say a
quadrature 90° LFO source on one retains a lot of stereo potential
not found on most phasers.

nick