SergeModular

kursk1@... wrote:

hello
my name is Bill.

you're supposed to say "my name is bill and i'm a synthaholic" ;^)....welcome to the list!

This summer I'm gonna invest in a modular
system and I would very much appreciate your opinions on
choosing a system. The choices (I've narrowed them down to)
are MOTM, Wiard , and Serge. I'm on the ground floor as far as
modulars go but I still want to invest in a system that I hope to
appreciate and explore for many years. Otherwise I would
choose the Evenfall minimodular and grow from there. MOTM
has a reputation for high quality but seems a bit conservative in
design. Still it ranks as a good choice for building up a modular
foundation and would integrate well with my moogerfoogers
(1/4" plugs/all CV).

at the outset, let me say that i find plug size to be a minor attractions/detractions to a system's ergonomics,
*unless* we're talking about bananas, in which case i'd say that particular format is superior to all others and
therefore provides an incentive to purchase that particular system.
as most everyone on the list will agree, bananas eliminate, for the most part, the need for multiples, their
insertion count will far outlast any coax cable, their lifetime integrity is longer (partially due to the lack of any
soldering/welding because they are monoaxial), they come in cool colors, and are relatively cheap. also, adapters
are a fact of life with modulars so start soldering!

Wiard seems fabulous but perhaps difficult to
bite into for a novice. Grant Richter, the system's designer,
explained that he usually sells his systems to people who
already own multiple systems and also have the expertise to
"understand" how the Wiard works. He doesn't say this to
discourage me from being interested in the Wiard but only to be
honest and to help me make better decisions. The Wiard system
and the MOTM (for a well-rounded small modular setup) cost
around $3500 give or take. My top choice currently is Serge and I
was considering the ANIMAL panel and the TKB to
control/sequence it. The ANIMAL looks powerful but I'm
wondering if the DTG will provide enough envelope
sophistication to make the music I do (ambient
landscape/space -- with a sonically strange and unsettling event
here and there).

sounds cool. i own a seven panel system with only a single ADSR and need more; the DTG, or DSG for that
matter,defintely does not operate, for all intents and purposes, as a "standard" envelope, but for your purposes (drones,
etc) the DTG/DSG would work fine. i have in fact built the PAIA 9710 Env. for use with my system because, as you
know, you don't simply order a module from STS when ya need one.

Also will the SSG(+noise) and the wave mult
modules provide the hoped for randomness and timbral
inspiration?

absolutely.

Will the ANIMAL do it for me? ANIMAL+TKB =$4500.
Should I consider a funstation? My god the cost! ahh but the
possibilities sonically speaking (the Blue funstation --blue voice
panel+a control panel(which one?) + TKB = $7550ouch I mean
ahhhh).
enough questions. I look forward to your responses and
assistance

bill: i took the plunge and bought the red fun station several years ago. i've never looked back. i therefore
came into the game (after years on two ARP 2600s) with a well specified system and experience on the ARPs.
you seem to be in the same boat as listmember toby schultz was about a year or so back; perhaps he can share with
us the decision making process utilized in purchasing his first modular from serge (an animal) and whether he's
lining up more panels. toby?

and keep in mind: unless the shop panels are built and ready to go (in which case you're paying up front with imminet
delivery), you will be paying 50% upfront with a god-knows-how-long lead time of probably 2-3 months; in other words,
you've got a fair amount of time to put your affairs in order before owing rex the balance.

hope this helps. and obviously bill, when you're asking this type of list what modular they recommend, what do expect
to hear?!!! ; )

matt

--
MATT WILSON, ATTORNEY @ LAW
phone: 619 234-2200
fax: 619 234-2219
email: mbwlaw@...
website: http://www.mattwilsonlaw.com

--- In SergeModular@y..., kursk1@e... wrote:

Bill
you seem pretty smart in your choices already !
see below



> hello
> my name is Bill. This summer I'm gonna invest in a modular
> system and I would very much appreciate your opinions on
> choosing a system. The choices (I've narrowed them down to)
> are MOTM, Wiard , and Serge. I'm on the ground floor as far as
> modulars go but I still want to invest in a system that I hope to
> appreciate and explore for many years. Otherwise I would
> choose the Evenfall minimodular and grow from there. MOTM
> has a reputation for high quality but seems a bit conservative in
> design. Still it ranks as a good choice for building up a modular
> foundation and would integrate well with my moogerfoogers
> (1/4" plugs/all CV). Wiard seems fabulous but perhaps difficult to
> bite into for a novice. Grant Richter, the system's designer,
> explained that he usually sells his systems to people who
> already own multiple systems and also have the expertise to
> "understand" how the Wiard works.



I dont think that is totally fair on himself or the Wiard .
certainly the serge & the wiard are flexible & endless in
possibilities (according to money & imagination) . Both systems are
complex , but I had no problem doing 2 shows , 1 with Tortoise , 1 as
EAR the day my Serge arrived . The catalogue , common sense & basics
of knowledge will have you in atleast at a cool level straight away .
Plus you'll only get more & more from these systems . One thing I'd
say for Serge is the massive range of modules . The Wiard is very
cool too , but Serge has the undeniable edge . I.M.O. , lots of the
Wiard ideas are very Buchla > Serge > lineage.




He doesn't say this to
> discourage me from being interested in the Wiard but only to be
> honest and to help me make better decisions. The Wiard system
> and the MOTM (for a well-rounded small modular setup) cost
> around $3500 give or take. My top choice currently is Serge and I
> was considering the ANIMAL panel and the TKB to
> control/sequence it. The ANIMAL looks powerful but I'm
> wondering if the DTG will provide enough envelope
> sophistication to make the music I do (ambient
> landscape/space -- with a sonically strange and unsettling event
> here and there).

You cant have too many modulation sources with the Serge .I would
think the 70 min. cycle available from the uni slope gens. would be
very usefull in soundscape /ambient work ?


Also will the SSG(+noise) and the wave mult
> modules provide the hoped for randomness and timbral
> inspiration?


you better believe it......I cannot think of a better system still
made for randomness & timbral flexibility.



Will the ANIMAL do it for me? ANIMAL+TKB =$4500.
> Should I consider a funstation? My god the cost! ahh but the
> possibilities sonically speaking (the Blue funstation --blue voice
> panel+a control panel(which one?) + TKB = $7550ouch I mean
> ahhhh).
> enough questions. I look forward to your responses and
> assistance


I must admit , I found a totally custom panel(s) layout the only
real option initially . (my opinion , just in case....).The
various "predone" panels will suit some aims better than others . I
see them as a great expander to a custom system /panels . I'm sure
though that they suit many folx to a tee .
You seem to know instinctively which are the better of these
systems . I envy you lucky soul buying & discovering these joys .
what ecstacy......
good luck p.k.
p.s. modcan do some Serge like stuff & other nice looking modules ,
not quite in Serges league as far as choice , and I dont know how it
is to use , but I guess it's an option ?

> Thanks
> Bill

This summer I'm gonna invest in a modular
system and I would very much appreciate your opinions on
choosing a system. The choices (I've narrowed them down to)
are MOTM, Wiard , and Serge. I'm on the ground floor as far as
modulars go but I still want to invest in a system that I hope to
appreciate and explore for many years.

I believe you could be happy with any of these systems. The exciting thing about MOTM and Wiard is that these systems are still evolving and you can see what new modules are added to the lineups over time. The frustration is waiting to see what new modules are added! It may be some years before MOTM or Wiard have phasers, frequency shifters, variable slope filters, VC Dividers or boolean logic modules available. Serge, on the other hand, has the most complete line available NOW in my opinion. The line of modules has not changed too much since the early 1980s but certainly some useful functions such as the Pulse Divider and Boolean Logic module have been added by Rex.

Remember, you don't need to limit yourself to one system over time. There are many users with multiple vendors in their setup. I began with MOTM modules as a core, added Synthesizers.com sequencers since MOTM didn't offer them, then recently added (by some very good fortune, I might add) a Serge panel with DSGs and other useful functions that I couldn't find elsewhere. The conversion between jack formats makes things a little more difficult, but not impossible as all three offer banana to 1/4" jack converters.

MOTM has a reputation for high quality but seems a bit conservative in
design. Still it ranks as a good choice for building up a modular
foundation and would integrate well with my moogerfoogers
(1/4" plugs/all CV).

at the outset, let me say that i find plug size to be a minor attractions/detractions to a system's ergonomics,
*unless* we're talking about bananas, in which case i'd say that particular format is superior to all others and
therefore provides an incentive to purchase that particular system.
as most everyone on the list will agree, bananas eliminate, for the most part, the need for multiples, their
insertion count will far outlast any coax cable, their lifetime integrity is longer (partially due to the lack of any
soldering/welding because they are monoaxial), they come in cool colors, and are relatively cheap. also, adapters
are a fact of life with modulars so start soldering!

I have a love-hate relationship with bananas. I love the stacking capability, the density and the short, color coded cable lengths. The density can work against you however. I once had a patch on a university's 7-panel Serge with about 100 patch cords and literally could not reach some of the knobs due to the pile of cables in the way. Using the Serge provided cables can help in this regards. My problems with the patch were aggravated by having to buy 50 of the patch cords on short notice, so I did not have the length and color options that Rex provides.

I am also somewhat concerned with running long audio signals without shielding. Your mileage may vary there.

If you go with a 1/4" system, definitely budget for a mutiples panel or two. You will need it. You can buy color coded 1/4" cables up the 3 foot lengths (Hose patch bay cables), but the cable quality is a little suspect/light weight and I am concerned about a bit of voltage drop on longer cables for critical things such as VCO control voltages.

Wiard seems fabulous but perhaps difficult to
bite into for a novice. Grant Richter, the system's designer,
explained that he usually sells his systems to people who
already own multiple systems and also have the expertise to
"understand" how the Wiard works. He doesn't say this to
discourage me from being interested in the Wiard but only to be
honest and to help me make better decisions. The Wiard system
and the MOTM (for a well-rounded small modular setup) cost
around $3500 give or take.

I think a Wiard should not be much more difficult to use than a Serge. Don't let this discourage you!

My top choice currently is Serge and I
was considering the ANIMAL panel and the TKB to
control/sequence it. The ANIMAL looks powerful but I'm
wondering if the DTG will provide enough envelope
sophistication to make the music I do (ambient
landscape/space -- with a sonically strange and unsettling event
here and there).

sounds cool. i own a seven panel system with only a single ADSR and need more; the DTG, or DSG for that
matter,defintely does not operate, for all intents and purposes, as a "standard" envelope, but for your purposes (drones,
etc) the DTG/DSG would work fine. i have in fact built the PAIA 9710 Env. for use with my system because, as you
know, you don't simply order a module from STS when ya need one.

Will the ANIMAL do it for me? ANIMAL+TKB =$4500.
Should I consider a funstation? My god the cost! ahh but the
possibilities sonically speaking (the Blue funstation --blue voice
panel+a control panel(which one?) + TKB = $7550ouch I mean
ahhhh).
enough questions. I look forward to your responses and
assistance

The Animal+TKB combo looks like a good start assuming that two panels is your current budgetary limit, but you'll find yourself wanting more DTGs or DSGs. If you look at a conventional patch, the Animal gives any combination of 3 LFOs/AR envelopes using the two DTG stages and the Smooth Function Generator. That gives only one envelope per NTO, VCFQ and UAP, for instance. That doesn't even include a clock to run the TKB as a sequencer.

The Blue Funstation is an awesome system with lots of control voltage possibilities for chaotic/semi-random/non-repetitive patches. With 1 DTG, 2 DTGs, Random Source, Quadrature Oscillator and the SSG there are endless combinations of envelopes/LFOs/control signals available. By all means, max out your system as best you can afford!

and keep in mind: unless the shop panels are built and ready to go (in which case you're paying up front with imminet
delivery), you will be paying 50% upfront with a god-knows-how-long lead time of probably 2-3 months; in other words,
you've got a fair amount of time to put your affairs in order before owing rex the balance.

Patience is the name of the game when buying almost any modular. Seldom will a complete system ship from any provider in less than 2-3 months.

Bill, welcome aboard. I hope this information proves useful.

John Loffink

microtonal@...

particlemen@... wrote:

-

So, I recommend you get a copy of the review of a Funstation found in
Keyboard Magazine - February 1998.

i will be scanning and posting this article to the list this weekend.

matt

--
Matt Wilson, Attorney @ Law
mbwlaw@...
(619) 234-2200

----- Original Message -----