SergeModular

>
> hello everyone, i just want to say a few things. this is from a
> customer standpoint. i have owned a Serge before.i bought my system
> used. once i grew accustomed to its workings, i found good and bad
> things about the system. once i understood the system, i set about on
> expanding it. first i was planning on how to get more functions in 3
> panels to have what i needed function wise.
>
> here is my biggest beef. once you lay out a panel, it is basicaly set
> for life unless you send it to STS to have it remodelled to the way
> you want it configured. i don't have to tell you about the costs
> involved to do this. a Serge instrument is not an ms20 or a 2600, but
> once you commit to panel design, its feels like one figuratively
> speaking.
>
> this is not an instrument which you can absorb in one or two
> sittings. it takes time to develop your understanding of its
> functions. a lot of people understand basic substractive synthesis,
> but a Serge can give you more than just vco-vcf-vca type patches. you
> need minimum 3 panels to get you started. so a potential customer who
> is inexperienced in the Serge way will choose a system based on his
> prior synthesis experiences. once he gets his Serge and discovers all
> the possibilties hidden in the instrument, he will view his
> instrument in a different way. he will see some things which he had
> wished for and things he wishedhe had not chosen for his instrument
> and possibly would have laid it out in a different order.
>
> this is what happened to me after buying my system. i found the lack
> of modularity in the system to be a glaring error. i was trying to
> layout 3 panels with new modules and doubles of some i already had to
> create my personal instrument. i found the lack of modularity to the
> modules themselves annoying. here i was trying to design my
> instrument but was stuck with the previous layout since i bought it
> used. now imagine adding more panels to that system. the flow of the
> instrument would be all out of place. the panel format is not
> conducive or flexible to customize your system as it grows. i could
> not have imagined buying that system new without getting my feet wet.
> i am glad i bought it used, because it taught more about the Serge
> way and use this knowledge with other instruments. i doubt many
> people can have that much understanding of a Serge before buying one.
> it is a system for the Magus and not for the uninitiated.
>
> so i decided not buy any new Serge panels and sold my system. do i
> regret selling my system? the answer is yes. do i miss some the Serge
> functions. yes. look at John DuVal, he is constantly selling and
> buying new panels to have the layout he desires. why? because you
> develop more of an understanding for the instrument as time goes by.
> would i want to rack my brain to design a new panel, which might or
> might be logical to my instrument? the answer is no. personally, i
> don't to buy and sell panels to get them the way i want. if the
> system was truly modular,i would have stuck with it. i would be able
> to change modules around in my system and be done with it. if i
> didn't need a certain module, bam on the market it goes and i don't
> have to ditch the rest of the modules in order to do so, i just order
> the ones i need and its done.
>
> the issue of being a Rolls Royce or upper echelon modular is
> completely false. Serge knew how to tweak designs from using the
> simplest of parts. yes the Serge is hand made but it's not up there
> for its craftmanship. it is up there because of its ciruits and
> functions. it is made the same way it was twenty years or so years
> ago. the basic circuitry of the system has not changed that much. the
> comsmetic side did get a good makeover but that's it. when you look
> at the TKB, it is a labourious job to build one. with the
> advancements in production and the new parts available out there, the
> production time of the TKB could be down considerately if STS built a
> motherboard that used surface mounted pots. you would save on all the
> wire cutting , and soldering and eliminate the risk for error. it is
> time for the Serge to go through another transformation, just like it
> did in the '70's. i am sure sure people were having these discussions
> back then. so why are people shying away from the Serge's inevitable
> need to change, so it can come into the 21st century.
>
> i respect Rex's wishes to to keep it a cottage industry size
> business, but i believe he is doing the Serge modular a disservice by
> keeping it the same. the Serge and its production deserves to be
> modernized. you can also ask yourself the question, why did Serge
> Tcherepnin leave Serge the company and passed the torch down to Rex
> Probe? maybe it is time for Rex to do the same, so the Serge can have
> more modules available to the people out there who balk at the format
> of the Serge, but actually want to buy them and can't deal with its
> format. the modules and circuits deserve much better.
>
> these comments are not ment to be harmful but rather as contructive
> points which could open up the Serge to other potential users who
> have some of the same issues regarding Serge Intruments. i absolutely
> love the sound and functions of the Serge but feel opposed to its
> idiosyncratic format. hopefully better things will prevail for the
> future.
>
> Regards,
> RM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> SergeModular-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Keep on Patchin'!
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

>
> The Serge is a strange beast because it is a classic instrument that is
> still under manufacture... the issues of improved/new
> modules is more sensitive because of this. Modcan, MOTM, synth.com, etc are
> all infants in comparison and the original designers are still
> in charge... adding to, or radically altering Serge modules would be like
> buying the rights to manufacture the Buchla 200 series and then the new
> owner of the rights adding new modules to it and modernising the old
> designs. Doesn't seem right to me.

>
> Hi RM
>
> I agree and sympathise with every point you make. Thx for such a
> constructive post.
>
> I would like to repeat a point I made in a recent post that nobody

> interested in replying to. It is about the introduction of new

> rather than the
> 'whole panel' issue.

>
> When Rex took over the reins from Serge T.
> was is it on the understanding that the Serge System would develop,

> and expand in capabilities
> or was the understanding/agreement to stay true to the original

> only minor alterations.
>
> If Rex added VC Reverbs, multi-stage envelopes, 4 pole filters,

> oscillators, etc, etc - would the system
> become something completely different? Does the Serge have

> way a Moog Modular or ARP 2500, etc
> does? I believe it does. Would this be lost if new modules were

> as some has asked, or even if modules were made with more up-to-date
> methods/components as has been suggested?
>
> The Serge is a strange beast because it is a classic instrument

> still under manufacture... the issues of improved/new
> modules is more sensitive because of this. Modcan, MOTM, synth.com,

> all infants in comparison and the original designers are still
> in charge... adding to, or radically altering Serge modules would

> buying the rights to manufacture the Buchla 200 series and then the

> owner of the rights adding new modules to it and modernising the old
> designs. Doesn't seem right to me.
>
> I repeat that I think the Serge is a classic 'as is' and rather

> modernisation of Serge T's original concept I would prefer to see

> involved in something completely different - like a collaboration

> Richter on a new beast.
>
> The cons of the 'wholepanel' format I totally agree with - but I

> Rex's wishes to use this method as a means to keep
> buyers down to a manageable level.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> KD
>
>
> >
> > hello everyone, i just want to say a few things. this is from a
> > customer standpoint. i have owned a Serge before.i bought my

> > used. once i grew accustomed to its workings, i found good and bad
> > things about the system. once i understood the system, i set

> > expanding it. first i was planning on how to get more functions

> > panels to have what i needed function wise.
> >
> > here is my biggest beef. once you lay out a panel, it is basicaly

> > for life unless you send it to STS to have it remodelled to the

> > you want it configured. i don't have to tell you about the costs
> > involved to do this. a Serge instrument is not an ms20 or a 2600,

> > once you commit to panel design, its feels like one figuratively
> > speaking.
> >
> > this is not an instrument which you can absorb in one or two
> > sittings. it takes time to develop your understanding of its
> > functions. a lot of people understand basic substractive

> > but a Serge can give you more than just vco-vcf-vca type patches.

> > need minimum 3 panels to get you started. so a potential customer

> > is inexperienced in the Serge way will choose a system based on

> > prior synthesis experiences. once he gets his Serge and discovers

> > the possibilties hidden in the instrument, he will view his
> > instrument in a different way. he will see some things which he

> > wished for and things he wishedhe had not chosen for his

> > and possibly would have laid it out in a different order.
> >
> > this is what happened to me after buying my system. i found the

> > of modularity in the system to be a glaring error. i was trying to
> > layout 3 panels with new modules and doubles of some i already

> > create my personal instrument. i found the lack of modularity to

> > modules themselves annoying. here i was trying to design my
> > instrument but was stuck with the previous layout since i bought

> > used. now imagine adding more panels to that system. the flow of

> > instrument would be all out of place. the panel format is not
> > conducive or flexible to customize your system as it grows. i

> > not have imagined buying that system new without getting my feet

> > i am glad i bought it used, because it taught more about the Serge
> > way and use this knowledge with other instruments. i doubt many
> > people can have that much understanding of a Serge before buying

> > it is a system for the Magus and not for the uninitiated.
> >
> > so i decided not buy any new Serge panels and sold my system. do

> > regret selling my system? the answer is yes. do i miss some the

> > functions. yes. look at John DuVal, he is constantly selling and
> > buying new panels to have the layout he desires. why? because you
> > develop more of an understanding for the instrument as time goes

> > would i want to rack my brain to design a new panel, which might

> > might be logical to my instrument? the answer is no. personally, i
> > don't to buy and sell panels to get them the way i want. if the
> > system was truly modular,i would have stuck with it. i would be

> > to change modules around in my system and be done with it. if i
> > didn't need a certain module, bam on the market it goes and i

> > have to ditch the rest of the modules in order to do so, i just

> > the ones i need and its done.
> >
> > the issue of being a Rolls Royce or upper echelon modular is
> > completely false. Serge knew how to tweak designs from using the
> > simplest of parts. yes the Serge is hand made but it's not up

> > for its craftmanship. it is up there because of its ciruits and
> > functions. it is made the same way it was twenty years or so years
> > ago. the basic circuitry of the system has not changed that much.

> > comsmetic side did get a good makeover but that's it. when you

> > at the TKB, it is a labourious job to build one. with the
> > advancements in production and the new parts available out there,

> > production time of the TKB could be down considerately if STS

> > motherboard that used surface mounted pots. you would save on all

> > wire cutting , and soldering and eliminate the risk for error. it

> > time for the Serge to go through another transformation, just

> > did in the '70's. i am sure sure people were having these

> > back then. so why are people shying away from the Serge's

> > need to change, so it can come into the 21st century.
> >
> > i respect Rex's wishes to to keep it a cottage industry size
> > business, but i believe he is doing the Serge modular a

> > keeping it the same. the Serge and its production deserves to be
> > modernized. you can also ask yourself the question, why did Serge
> > Tcherepnin leave Serge the company and passed the torch down to

> > Probe? maybe it is time for Rex to do the same, so the Serge can

> > more modules available to the people out there who balk at the

> > of the Serge, but actually want to buy them and can't deal with

> > format. the modules and circuits deserve much better.
> >
> > these comments are not ment to be harmful but rather as

> > points which could open up the Serge to other potential users who
> > have some of the same issues regarding Serge Intruments. i

> > love the sound and functions of the Serge but feel opposed to its
> > idiosyncratic format. hopefully better things will prevail for the
> > future.
> >
> > Regards,
> > RM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > SergeModular-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> > Keep on Patchin'!
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

> >
> >

> I've only recently gotten some sharper
> edged sounds by learning how the
> using the Trig In of the ADSR starts and shapes the env's

> the regular Gate In mode. Wonderful stuff.. but a lot to remember!!

> --- In SergeModular@y..., "Kirk Degiorgio" <kirk.degiorgio@b...>
> wrote:
>
> > I've only recently gotten some sharper
> > edged sounds by learning how the
> > using the Trig In of the ADSR starts and shapes the env's
> differently from
> > the regular Gate In mode. Wonderful stuff.. but a lot to remember!!
>
> Isn't the difference just that the "trig" input recognizes rising
> edges only (as opposed to sustained voltages), and makes the envelope
> stop after the "decay" slope (as opposed to entering the "sustain"
> phase and ending with the "release" slope), which allows even shorter
> overall times?
>
> SK
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> SergeModular-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Keep on Patchin'!
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>