SergeModular

Why should I wonder that there are also bipolar attenuators!
I never heard of the word attenuverter? I also never heard of Matthias Fonik, but I will google his name.
So much to learn, so little time.

>An attenuator. :-)
>More specifically, in this case, a bipolar attenuator.
>Or, since more recently, "attenuverter" has been doing the rounds ~ >a word
>coined by Matthias "Fonik", afaik (personally, I think it's an ugly >word).
>Serge (and other, more technically-inclined folks) call it a >"processor pot".

Nothing wrong me with me. I only quoted what can be found on dozens of sites. 20 khz is what most sites quote as the highest hearing range for men. I know you can't take that as absolute value; it's more like you said between 16 khz and 18 khz. However I estimated the lowest part to high. No 500 hz, but much deeper, around 20 hz. Your right there.

> I only now that our range of hearing lies between 500 hz and appr. 20 khz.

>Well, I sincerely hope you're going to see a doctor soon, if you >think that is
>your hearing range. :-)
>Those numbers differ from person to person, and rapidly decline once >you're past
>a certain age (appr. 25yo). A teenager with very good hearing can >discern
>audible sounds somewhere between 30Hz and 18kHz or thereabouts. Most >(familiar)
>sounds and music we hear on a daily basis sit in the 200Hz to 2kHz >range.

Yes, I'm familiar with the theorie. Pressure waves are converted into sound waves.

> I now understand that you can hear DC as well. I didn't know this under till

now. Always thought it's a cv, so sub-audio only.

>What you hear is air compressed by a source (e.g. a speaker system). >This makes
>stuff-inside-your-ear vibrate, which is then translated by your >brain as
>"sound". It has nothing to do with AC or DC.

Sorry about that. I only wanted to shorten the expanding message, so it doesn't eat up to much space here.
I understand.

> Yesterday I found some explanation about coupling on the internet.
> It's states that DC is directly given, but with AC there's a capacitator in

the way.

> You say: "adjust that difference". What do you mean by that?

>BTW: please answer posts inline *under* the quotes, not above. It's >very
>confusing to read an answer to something which isn't said yet.

>What I said about "adjusting that difference", is that you can >easily shift a
>signal down or up (around the zero Volt axis). A Scaling Buffer can >do this.

I can't agree with you here. These terms are very important to know about. Why? Because it tells you how a module will react. Even on east coast paradigma produced modulars as Moog. If you look at the pictures of the oldest modules you'll see AC and DC printed on them. One that is AC coupled will react differently than one that's DC coupled. So you need to know the difference, without entangling yourself to deep in theory.
But I think on the Serge it's even more important cause of the different approach, structure-wise Therepnin took. If it really didn't matter if a signal in a Serge is audio or cv, why would the Gold book go to great length to explain it all in detail. That's why it's so invaluable to the Serge musician. BTW when Bakis announced a new module, he mentioned if it was AC or DC coupled. He wouldn't do that it was only in the interest of theory goers.

> This is not easy. I look in Wikipedia, but it only touches on AC and DC and

such, but doesn't talk about the things I need to know. Beside that AC and DC
linked with synths it seams almost impossible to find on the internet! I'm going
to search for a good book on this subject.

>"AC coupling" and "DC coupling" aren't always mentioned in books >related to
>synthesizers, true. The reason why, is because mostly it doesn't >matter all that
>much.

You don't honestly think that getting my head around the theorie is stopping me from making music with the Serge?! No chance!
Knowing the workings of complex, patch-programmable modules will only give you an excellent starting point for deeper experimentation with the Serge.
If your curious what music I have made so far with my Serge system,
just google Soundcloud. You can find me there under the alias H.P. Lovecraft. So far 35 Serge exclusive tracks can be played and listened there.

>I think you're putting to much thought in this right now... Go on, >and make some
>music instead. All of this stuff will become much clearer at one >point in time.



--- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, "roelelec" <r.steverink@...> wrote:
>
> I see, it's the other way around. That's why the signs for positive and
negative open wide on both sides! So there's no attenuation to - and + (only at
0) and it's not amplification either.
> How do you call that then?

An attenuator. :-)
More specifically, in this case, a bipolar attenuator.
Or, since more recently, "attenuverter" has been doing the rounds ~ a word
coined by Matthias "Fonik", afaik (personally, I think it's an ugly word).
Serge (and other, more technically-inclined folks) call it a "processor pot".

> This is tricky!
> What is the range of HZ for DC and AC?

Whot !?
Erm, I think somewhere between 0.00000000000001Hz en 1,000,000,000,000,000 Hz...
The frequency range of an electronic device is only limited by the boundaries
dictated by the hardware used. The range of "natural sources" is defined by the
laws of physics.

> I don't dare to give an answer myself, since DC can overlap AC.

Whot!?
It's the same.

> I only now that our range of hearing lies between 500 hz and appr. 20 khz.

Well, I sincerely hope you're going to see a doctor soon, if you think that is
your hearing range. :-)
Those numbers differ from person to person, and rapidly decline once you're past
a certain age (appr. 25yo). A teenager with very good hearing can discern
audible sounds somewhere between 30Hz and 18kHz or thereabouts. Most (familiar)
sounds and music we hear on a daily basis sit in the 200Hz to 2kHz range.



> I now understand that you can hear DC as well. I didn't know this under till
now. Always thought it's a cv, so sub-audio only.

What you hear is air compressed by a source (e.g. a speaker system). This makes
stuff-inside-your-ear vibrate, which is then translated by your brain as
"sound". It has nothing to do with AC or DC.

> Yesterday I found some explanation about coupling on the internet.
> It's states that DC is directly given, but with AC there's a capacitator in
the way.
> You say: "adjust that difference". What do you mean by that?

BTW: please answer posts inline *under* the quotes, not above. It's very
confusing to read an answer to something which isn't said yet.

What I said about "adjusting that difference", is that you can easily shift a
signal down or up (around the zero Volt axis). A Scaling Buffer can do this.

> This is not easy. I look in Wikipedia, but it only touches on AC and DC and
such, but doesn't talk about the things I need to know. Beside that AC and DC
linked with synths it seams almost impossible to find on the internet! I'm going
to search for a good book on this subject.

"AC coupling" and "DC coupling" aren't always mentioned in books related to
synthesizers, true. The reason why, is because mostly it doesn't matter all that
much.

I think you're putting to much thought in this right now... Go on, and make some
music instead. All of this stuff will become much clearer at one point in time.

> I agree with you; it's definitely one of the strong points of the Serge. But
on the other hand it's important for the us, the makers to know what their
doing. I mean outputing a signal below 500 hz result in silence!

I really need to give you a doctor's address. Seriously. ;-)
You can check for yourself first: if you're going to a club where the DJ is
spinning some groovy tunes, and you see everyone around you dancing whilst you
stand still and wonder why they do so: you need to see a doctor... The "beat" of
modern dance music sits somewhere between 50Hz and 200Hz (the latter being
-very- fast). And it's quite audible, yes.

>As soon as you patch it into f.e. a cv in of a NTO, you hear the signal again!
> Which in Buchla system also means that you need different kabels.
> This way of patching can be very handy, but it also limites the freedom of
experimentation.

Don Buchla once decided to separate audio and CV signals because he wanted to
have a "very clean" audio path. Audio can be offset and 'disturbed' by
(low-frequency) DC signals. It's just a practical decision -- which can be
debated -- but Buchla users in general don't see this as a limitation...
Furthermore, there *are* ways to intermix both (on a Buchla).
OTOH, Serge and most other modular synth makers did not want to make this
separation.
Debating the merits and weaknesses of both is as useful as debating the pros and
cons of banana jacks vs. minijacks. It's mostly a matter of personal taste.

_g