All about the Roland Jupiter-series

-----Original Message-----
From: M.Strijbos [mailto:M.Strijbos@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 9:13 AM
To: Analogue Heaven (E-mail)
Subject: [AH] Re: JP-8 and more

> > Bring your JP-8 to a friend with i.ex the Virus TDM plug-in and play

them

> > side by side... I think you're about to experience a minor shock!.
> I don't.

me neither... i'm not that impressed by the sound of the 'hardware' Virus
and
that's the best of the modelling bunch i've heard so far.
Certainly not a match for the JP-8, not even in the same ballpark IMHO

> > This is what _musicians_ want... there is no room for collectors.

mmm... even as sweeping statements go, this one is actually quite offensive
when you think about it.


Mark R. Strijbos
werk: m.strijbos@...
prive: xtc@...
webmaster@...
mark.strijbos@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Fiorenz@ [mailto:sfiorenz@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 10:18 AM
To: ah
Subject: Re: [AH] Re: JP-8 and more

> This is what _musicians_ want... there is no room for collectors.

:)

think about it
what defines a "collection"
?
more than 1? 9? six of one, half a dozen of the other?

any time someone has 'more than one anything'
it can be considered a "collection"..

that's kinda like trying to define what 'normal' is..
who defines normal? tom brokaw?

here are 3 pairs of shoes. this is my shoe collection.
"i only have 1 pair, therefore no collection yet"

If i had 1 synthesizer, would I be a "collector"?
how about 2? at that point would i be "collecting"?

i'd love to swap my butterfly and treefrog collection
for a nice Oberheim Matrix 12. any takers? ;)

what if someone had 1 master controller, 2 modules,
and a mixing console. u could say this person has
a "collection" of musical equipment."

..but would they be a "collector" ?
:)

"hi, im a guy who has a small collection of synthesizers
who likes making music and noise with them"

someone could easily say a person is "collector"
of 'newer' musical equipment too..

"i have 25 poly61s, 100 poly 800, and 83 Seil DK600, each of them
set to the same harpsichord preset"

that goes beyond collection. we're talking powerhouse ENTERPRISE here! ;)

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: ModularMoog [mailto:modularmoog@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 11:58 AM
To: M.Strijbos@...; Analogue Heaven (E-mail)
Subject: Re: [AH] Re: JP-8 and more


on 30/01/01 09:13, M.Strijbos at M.Strijbos@... wrote:

>
>>> Bring your JP-8 to a friend with i.ex the Virus TDM plug-in and play

them

>>> side by side... I think you're about to experience a minor shock!.
>> I don't.
>
> me neither... i'm not that impressed by the sound of the 'hardware' Virus

and

> that's the best of the modelling bunch i've heard so far.
> Certainly not a match for the JP-8, not even in the same ballpark IMHO

Well I never really said the Virus (plug-in or hardware) is a competition
for the JP-8... did I ?. My point is that the VA´s is getting there and are
very close to the analog sound in nature. Of course there are many things
analogs are better at... I find this to be true when it come to modular
synths though.

>>> This is what _musicians_ want... there is no room for collectors.
> mmm... even as sweeping statements go, this one is actually quite

offensive

> when you think about it.

Was not ment to anyone personally.

Regards.
Henning.

-----Original Message-----
From: ModularMoog [mailto:modularmoog@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 12:25 PM
To: Scott Fiorenz@; ah
Subject: Re: [AH] Re: JP-8 and more


on 30/01/01 10:18, Scott Fiorenz@ at sfiorenz@... wrote:

>> This is what _musicians_ want... there is no room for collectors.
>
> :)
>
> think about it
> what defines a "collection"
> ?
> more than 1? 9? six of one, half a dozen of the other?

What I ment was that people who wants a major sounding synth often get
blinded by the name "minimoog" or "analog" because the advertises often say
"as good as the minimoog" or even "_allmost_ a minimoog in sound"... or
something like that.... and the fact that analogs are what VA´s tries to be
wont make it less interesting for a "kid" never owned another thing than a
shitty PCM based LCD machine :-)

And for the record... I find no VA to stand up against the Mini :-)
Now I got that said :-O

BTW: a collector is not one who ownes a certain number of analog synths, I
see him as a person who buy´s the synth because of the history.

> any time someone has 'more than one anything'
> it can be considered a "collection"..

Agreed.

> that's kinda like trying to define what 'normal' is..
> who defines normal? tom brokaw?

Nothing is normal... now is it?... Think about it.

> here are 3 pairs of shoes. this is my shoe collection.
> "i only have 1 pair, therefore no collection yet"

You´re joking, right? :-)

> If i had 1 synthesizer, would I be a "collector"?
> how about 2? at that point would i be "collecting"?
>
> i'd love to swap my butterfly and treefrog collection
> for a nice Oberheim Matrix 12. any takers? ;)

I´m out...

> what if someone had 1 master controller, 2 modules,
> and a mixing console. u could say this person has
> a "collection" of musical equipment."
>
> ..but would they be a "collector" ?
> :)
>
> "hi, im a guy who has a small collection of synthesizers
> who likes making music and noise with them"
>
> someone could easily say a person is "collector"
> of 'newer' musical equipment too..
>
> "i have 25 poly61s, 100 poly 800, and 83 Seil DK600, each of them
> set to the same harpsichord preset"
>
> that goes beyond collection. we're talking powerhouse ENTERPRISE here! ;)

Scott, reading all the above examples of yours... maybe we are a bit
off-topic? or should we say... "du er rett og slett bare helt på trynet
siden du har spist for mye flein-sopp" ! ?? hehehe...

Regards.
Henning.

-----Original Message-----
From: Enmach@... [mailto:Enmach@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 2:59 PM
To: M.Strijbos@...; analogue@...
Subject: Re: [AH] Re: JP-8 and more


In a message dated 1/30/01 3:27:17 AM Eastern Standard Time,
M.Strijbos@... writes:

<< This is what _musicians_ want... there is no room for collectors. >>

Can't recall who wrote that, but IMHO, very ignorant. Why?

The rapid/obsessed collector is one of the best resources you will find, in
terms of
getting access to parts lists, schemos, samples and manual copies. Assuming

they are willing to share and you are willing to deal honestly with them,
they can/have/will form a major support resource for all interested parties.

Maybe five, ten years from now there will be a site like the Oddy and
Mono/Poly sites, but for like almost every synth of interest ever produced,
put together by someone with a deep enthusiasm for that one instrument that
really floated their boat. I can't see any downside to it.

anyone?

PAT

-----Original Message-----
From: ModularMoog [mailto:modularmoog@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 4:10 PM
To: Enmach@...; M.Strijbos@...; analogue@...
Subject: Re: [AH] Re: JP-8 and more


on 30/01/01 14:59, Enmach@... at Enmach@... wrote:

> Can't recall who wrote that, but IMHO, very ignorant. Why?

Why is this ignorant?... read the original posting again... ok, might be I
where a little unclear with my point....

The original post was:

"I'm sure if Roland dusted off the schematics for the
JP-8, polished it with full MIDI, and put it to market, it would
have to sell."

Ok... nothing wrong about wishing for a re-release of a JP-8... but it wont
happen (I think I can speak for roland!)... the cost would make kids buy 15
MC-303 instead... and maybe a few JP-8080´s for the same cost as this "shiny
new JP-8", I also fully believe that Roland has "re-made" the JP-8 with the
8080... and with the years to come the 8080 will be a 9090 ?!?! and most
likely it will kill the JP-8 in all terms (other than beein 100% plastic and
not nice heavy metal as the JP-8 are)... of course... musicians who benefit
from using this 8080 or 9090 will choose the JP-8 because it´s NOT
plastic!...

Come on!... get real.

Hell this goes for the whole industry... take a few minutes searching the
internet for studio equipment (recording) and name a single
artist/producer/band/film composer who does _not_ use ProTools... There is
no difference between analogue/digital synths and mixing equipment... it´s
the same shitty war over and over again... warm sound... not warm sound...

I would turn it all around and say... to ignore DSP today is _very_ ignorant
(extremely ignorant that is!).

My point is (as I wrote "bankrupt")... there are _many_ more musicians than
collectors, we (atleast myself) analog lovers are an _BIG_ minor group of
synth users and Roland would *never on this planet* earn much money making
the original boxes again... and to design them with additional midi/patch
storage and all that of today... hah!...

That´s why I wrote "there is no room for collectors"... (from rolands
point of view of course).

Another interesting though is... When the Jupiter-8 was released it sold
bad.... How can this be??... the monster where a major release (the cost for
"equal" size VA or other synths today is not THAT much higher compared to
JP-8 at that time, ok maybe higher). Look at Waldorf Q. or that big Waldorf
I can´t remember the name of.

> The rapid/obsessed collector is one of the best resources you will find,

in

> terms of
> getting access to parts lists, schemos, samples and manual copies.

Assuming

> they are willing to share and you are willing to deal honestly with them,
> they can/have/will form a major support resource for all interested

parties.

> Maybe five, ten years from now there will be a site like the Oddy and
> Mono/Poly sites, but for like almost every synth of interest ever

produced,

> put together by someone with a deep enthusiasm for that one instrument

that

> really floated their boat. I can't see any downside to it.

This has nothing to do with my point... of course there are no downside...
hell, you´ll find dozens of mailing-lists on the internet... a list for each
product ever released... this is fantastic... I think I know about a certain
mailing list for analogue synthesizers which has given me answers for
questions I never would get another way.... hm... anyone have more infor, I
seem to have forgotten the details. :-O

Regards.
Henning.

-----Original Message-----
From: Enmach@... [mailto:Enmach@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 4:32 PM
To: modularmoog@...; Enmach@...;
M.Strijbos@...; analogue@...
Subject: Re: [AH] Re: JP-8 and more


In a message dated 1/30/01 10:10:35 AM Eastern Standard Time,
modularmoog@... writes:

<< That´s why I wrote "there is no room for collectors"... (from rolands
point of view of course).

>>

Hello,

I'm now thinking I read your initial post way too fast and missed the point
you've made above, specifically, that the 'there is no room for collectors'
was intended as being from Roland's point of view. I had interpreted the
statement literally as your own opinion. oops! In my own defense I might
offer the fact that I've noticed the word 'collectors' offered in a
perjorative sense on this list, in a manner that undervalues their
contribution to our collective knowledge and resources.

Concerning ignoring DSP, yes, that would be very stupid in today's world, so

I don't. My own (non-VA) d*g*t*l synths sit happily alongside my analogue
stuff.

Hope this clears things up...

PAT

-----Original Message-----
From: Brent A. Busby [mailto:brent@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 8:03 PM
To: analogue@...
Subject: Re: [AH] Re: JP-8 and more


You know, up until now I've been staying out of this, but I just thought,
as someone who actually bothered to go through the trouble to get a JP-8,
and even install the aforementioned Encore implant, I'd throw my own two
cents in regarding why people bother with analog.

As for myself, I wasn't just trying to get *a* great sound. Not
any great sound, a particular great sound. The timbre of the JP-8 is easy
to fall in love with, and it's immediately recognizable when you hear it
unless it's obscured by something in the mix. Once you know what it
sounds like, you will seldom fail to recognize it on a recording again.
This, to many people who own classic analogs, is the real reason they
bothered: It's not just a good sound, it's *that* good sound.

I have to admit I've never bothered to check out the JP-8080. I
have played the JP-8000 though, and frankly, from the sound of what I was
hearing, I felt like I was playing a DX-21 with sliders and built in
effects. I sure can't say necessarily that either one of them is not
capable of some great sounds though because a few minutes spent twiddling
is no way to judge it, but I'm pretty reasonably sure neither one of them
is going to get mistaken for a real JP-8 anytime soon, nomatter how
otherwise good of a patch you might be able to coax from them.

What's more, some analog synths are more particularly able at
being hard to model than others. For instance, if someone told me they
had a VA device that did a good emulation of an OB-X or OB-Xa, I'd
*really* want to have some of what they were having. Often it seems it's
synths such as these that don't really have a lot of routing options that
have timbre that's just not available from any other machine. And if you
want that timbre, don't think you're going to just model the OB-X.

And to add to what one other JP-8 user said, mine is not going up
for sale ever... Its substaintial weight will make my keyboard stand
drive holes in the living room floor over the centuries before I ever get
rid of it. <lol>

+=====================+================================================+
|< Brent A. Busby >| "Just when I thought I could not be stopped, |
|< brent@... >| When my chance came to be king, |
|+ - - - - - - -+| The ghosts of my life |
| Rockford, IL (USA) | Blew wilder than the wind..." |
| Debian Linux 2.2r0 | --Japan, "Ghosts" 1981 |
+=====================+================================================+

-----Original Message-----
From: Enmach@... [mailto:Enmach@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 9:09 PM
To: brent@...; analogue@...
Subject: Re: [AH] Re: JP-8 and more


Analogue self aggrandizment (sp?):

hear the mighty Jupiter 8 (and 6!) roar at

www.d-store.com/nm.htm

click on 'discography', scroll to the bottom and click on

RealAudio file of RADIO 408 (yeah, yeah, we'll get MP3s on there yet)

JP8 and 6: cacaphonous intro
JP8: both melodies
JP6: distant strings near end

yer backfeed is important to us
PAT