All about the Roland Jupiter-series

-----Original Message-----
From: N. Kent [mailto:ndkent@...]
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 8:15 PM
To: media@...; analogue@...
Subject: Re: [AH] MKS-80 w/PC-1600x ??


media@... wrote:
> 
> Thanks to everyone for their help.
> 
> I'm using a PC-1600x, a Rev. 1 MKS-80, a Studio 5LX, and running OMS 2.3.8
> and Cubase Audio XT 3.0.7 PPC on an 8100/110.
> 
> >For what its worth I have the original PC-1600 and an MKS-80. The
> >original factory patches had only a patch of some popular MKS-80
> >parameters not all of them so I fleshed it out to all the parameters in
> >3 patches.
> 
> Then I think I might be using your patches!! I downloaded them from Dan
> Nigrin's website.

I think they were already up there done by someone else when I
discovered that site, anyway
the original 1600 came with some of the parameters as an example patch
as I've mentioned so that almost shouts to do the rest

> Does anyone know where I can get the original MKS-80 patch for the
PC-1600??

I'd look for the whole factory bank that shipped with it, its got like
1/6th of the DX7, part of a proteus,etc. though if what you have works
its a waste of time since Peavy's bank isn't anywhere near a complete
set of MKS parameters

> 
> >But speaking of data overload, make sure you don't have some kind of
> >midi loop or software thru going on. For example just test your MKS with
> >the Peavy and I guess the keyboard but keep out any interfaces or
> >computers, see if it works. Theres that switch on the back for the real
> >programmer, but I don't think that would make it function wrongly
> >instead of just not function.
> 
> Yes, thank you, that solved the problem.  When I connected the PC-1600x
> directly to the MKS-80 everything worked fine.  "STUPID @$%#&!! OPCODE!!"
> Yet, I swore to soon.  The Studio 5LX wasn't the problem.

Actually I have Studio 5LX now (and a Studio 4 before it when I was
messing with the Peavy which shares most oif the 5's concepts). The
thing is the manuals are kind of thick and get into all kinds of obscure
features not how to get something simple running. This might be your
problem, I know I've run into other people on the net who like I did
essentially thought the same---

The matrix grid with ins and outs of all the connections on your
interface and the names of all the gear you registered in OMS that comes
up in OMS on your computer **looks like something you are supposed to
connect**. Like you seem to be encouraged to connect your masterkeyboard
to say your modules.  But actually if you are using a software sequencer
on your computer you should connect nothing on that Matrix. Maybe save
nothing as patch #0 on your Studio 5 with nothing routed in OMS after
you've set up all your synths with OMS (so your sequencer knows whats
where). 

Your sequencer should be doing the patching like from your master
keyboard to the modules when you are using the sequencer not you
manually patching with the OMS matrix interface. You'd only use that
matrix interface in OMS for routing MIDI when *not* using a software
sequencer. There are probably some exceptions but you shouldn't really
use that matrix at all with a software sequencer... but seeing it so
prominant when flipping through the manual while scratching your head
about how to set all this stuff up sure encouraged me think I was
supposed to patch my synths together with it. (well I do with some
Studio 5 patches I made for playing without booting the computer, but
when I'm sequencing I stick to using an empty patch matrix interface
that I have set up as patch #0 on the Studio 5)

  As it turns out,
> Cubase is the problem. It's clearly buggy.  It can record parameter values
> from 0 to 100, it can play back parameter values from 0 to 100, but it
> can't thru parameter values from 0 to 100 (or play them while recording).
> This doesn't come as much as a shock as one would think.  Until version
> 3.0.7 Cubase couldn't even record SysEx through OMS.
> 
> "STUPID %$#@&*!! STEINBERG!!!"

I never personally found cubase feature rich enough to follow (but I
like their VST and ASIO standards). So I don't know the answers. Be
aware that a lot of apps default to filtering out SYSEX though it can be
turned back on. I don't know if OMS defaults but you can make your
interface filter it away via OMS something you don't want to do in this
case. Anyway with something like a Studio 5 LX and a PC1600 with its own
thru jack and an MKS there are a couple ways to cable everything so you
might want come up with a better cable path. While maybe not the
optimum, maybe you can have your master keyboard out to the in on the
Peavy then the Peavy thru to the Studio 5. The Peavy has a Merge. This
way Cubase has to see your playing and your SYSEX all coming in on the
same port. Then connect the MKS on some other Studio 5 port.

 The MKS I believe echos the SYSEX back out it's MIDI out so you want to
be very wary if you have the midi out on the MKS going to back into the
MIDI interface. You need it connected for say a software patch editor.
If you are aware that the MKS is spitting all the SYSEX back out the out
then you can probably manage it. The thing is your software sequencer
might default to resending the SYSEX being echoed by the MKS mistaking
it as another controller keyboard which can be big trouble (it forms
loop) so you have to set things up right.

I don't know whats going on with cubase but I'd think it would just
record the sysex or not or choke, not interpret it to filter out values
burried in a Sysex string without a lot of special code. We aren't
talking about CC#s where this sort of filtering is commonplace. The
parameter values for the MKS contained in the SYSEX are within a string
of several bytes which changes from company to company, I don't think
its realistic that Steinberg is saying hey lets interpret this whole
sysex string unique to the MKS just to drop the higher values but leave
the rest alone so it still makes the MKS respond, something more messed
up is going on. (or maybe you are looking at hex numbers when you think
you are seeing decimal numbers)

nick kent