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Re: using QTR-Linearize-Quad to create a new .quad file (solved) (to Jeff)

Re: using QTR-Linearize-Quad to create a new .quad file (solved) (to Jeff)

2015-10-04 by David Lykes Keenan

>That's good to know. I have just finished doing it for a stack of papers.
>21x4 gives an excellent result. I can't imagine that the 51 step could do
>much better. When I recover the will to live I may do a comparison.

Jeff --

You may be right -- but I have been using the latest version of i1Profiler's Measure Chart Workflow (rather than the older MeasureTool5 application) since it allows the targets to be scanned/read MUCH faster. It also takes several readings of each target area and produces an average rather than depending on the result of one reading.

I do not find a way in this software to read the 21x4 target.
.
Dave.

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Re: [QuadtoneRIP] using QTR-Linearize-Quad to create a new .quad file (solved) (to Jeff)

2015-10-05 by Jeff Grant

Dave,

I can send you files to measure the 21x4 targets with i1P if you wish. I use it instead of Measure Tool.


On 5 Oct 2015, at 9:39 am, David Lykes Keenan ausdlk@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


>That's good to know. I have just finished doing it for a stack of papers.
>21x4 gives an excellent result. I can't imagine that the 51 step could do
>much better. When I recover the will to live I may do a comparison.

Jeff --

You may be right -- but I have been using the latest version of i1Profiler's Measure Chart Workflow (rather than the older MeasureTool5 application) since it allows the targets to be scanned/read MUCH faster. It also takes several readings of each target area and produces an average rather than depending on the result of one reading.

I do not find a way in this software to read the 21x4 target.
.
Dave.

--
My photography web site
Like my Facebook page
My FAIR WITNESS book released March 2015


Re: using QTR-Linearize-Quad to create a new .quad file (solved) (to Jeff)

2015-10-05 by brian_downunda@...

Jeff is always extolling the virtues of i1Profiler to me over the Measure Tool, but either should work, given the right reference files.

I think your problem comes from using the 51 step patch, rather than the 21 step. I have tried it and found that it provides "tooooo much information", as the saying goes. That is, it wiggles around too much. This is the sort of reversal that can cause the quad file relinearisation droplet to fail. The 51 step patch may be useful for some things, but not this IMHO.

You're like to get more consistent results from the 21x4 patch. Although it's less precise, it's possible to have too much precision. I have had the droplet fail on the 21x4 once, but only on a curve that had quite bad curvature. The droplet does have its limitations.

On the question of averaging readings, I am less concerned about measuring the same patches multiple times than I am about reading multiple patches. That is, I'm less concerned about variability in the performance of the measurement device than I am about the consistency of the printer in laying down the ink, and also possible variation in the paper coating. So when I have used the 51 step patch, I've created a 51x3 patch and matching reference file. I sometimes check the variation between the three or four patch sets, and generally while not huge, it can be more that you'd expect, and demonstrates the advantage of averaging different patches. But this probably wouldn't solve your problem.

[QuadtoneRIP] Re: using QTR-Linearize-Quad to create a new .quad file (solved) (to Jeff)

2015-10-05 by Roy Harrington

I agree with Jeff's comments about 51 vs 21 steps. 51 is too much data subject
to wiggles due to noise/randomness. 21x4 is best because it averages several
Patches and measurements. Btw, even with just one set of patches you can read it
4 times and average the results.

Roy
Show quoted textHide quoted text

On Monday, October 5, 2015, brian_downunda@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Jeff is always extolling the virtues of i1Profiler to me over the Measure Tool, but either should work, given the right reference files.

I think your problem comes from using the 51 step patch, rather than the 21 step. I have tried it and found that it provides "tooooo much information", as the saying goes. That is, it wiggles around too much. This is the sort of reversal that can cause the quad file relinearisation droplet to fail. The 51 step patch may be useful for some things, but not this IMHO.

You're like to get more consistent results from the 21x4 patch. Although it's less precise, it's possible to have too much precision. I have had the droplet fail on the 21x4 once, but only on a curve that had quite bad curvature. The droplet does have its limitations.

On the question of averaging readings, I am less concerned about measuring the same patches multiple times than I am about reading multiple patches. That is, I'm less concerned about variability in the performance of the measurement device than I am about the consistency of the printer in laying down the ink, and also possible variation in the paper coating. So when I have used the 51 step patch, I've created a 51x3 patch and matching reference file. I sometimes check the variation between the three or four patch sets, and generally while not huge, it can be more that you'd expect, and demonstrates the advantage of averaging different patches. But this probably wouldn't solve your problem.



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Re: using QTR-Linearize-Quad to create a new .quad file (solved) (to Jeff)

2015-10-05 by brian_downunda@...

Yes, and I think the OP said that he did that.

But what that does is allow for variation in the performance of the measurement device. What I (not Jeff) said was "I'm less concerned about variability in the performance of the measurement device than I am about the consistency of the printer in laying down the ink, and also possible variation in the paper coating." For this kind of thing, where you're going to be creating .quad files that you'll using to print over and over again, I would always average three or four sets of patches rather than read the same set three or four times. Wouldn't you?


---In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, <roy@...> wrote :

Btw, even with just one set of patches you can read it 4 times and average the results.

Roy

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: using QTR-Linearize-Quad to create a new .quad file (solved) (to Jeff)

2015-10-05 by Roy Harrington



On Monday, October 5, 2015, brian_downunda@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text


Yes, and I think the OP said that he did that.

But what that does is allow for variation in the performance of the measurement device. What I (not Jeff) said was "I'm less concerned about variability in the performance of the measurement device than I am about the consistency of the printer in laying down the ink, and also possible variation in the paper coating." For this kind of thing, where you're going to be creating .quad files that you'll using to print over and over again, I would always average three or four sets of patches rather than read the same set three or four times. Wouldn't you?

Sure, better with other patches. But on separate reads you probably measure
different areas of patch, too. All good ideas.
Roy



---In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

Btw, even with just one set of patches you can read it 4 times and average the results.

Roy




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Sent from Gmail Mobile

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: using QTR-Linearize-Quad to create a new .quad file (solved) (to Jeff)

2015-10-06 by Jeff Grant

Dave,

Good. I f I can help, you know where I am.


On 6 Oct 2015, at 2:24 pm, David Lykes Keenan ausdlk@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


>I can send you files to measure the 21x4 targets with i1P if you wish. I use it instead of Measure Tool.

Jeff --

Got them. Thanks.
.
Dave.

--
My photography web site
Like my Facebook page
My FAIR WITNESS book released March 2015


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