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Linearization Problems

Linearization Problems

2015-03-04 by homershannon@...

I'm relatively new to QTR but have my basic qdif file worked up and printing. I want to use the linearization panel to correct the curve a bit.


The linearization panel does not look like the panel described in Tom Moore's instructions. The instructions show a 21 field table. The current version (2.7.0.0) of QTR has 10 x 6 table. I assume I need to use the first 21 fields and entered my densities from my step scale scan. The last three values were all 94 and I know this causes issues. Nevertheless, I attempted to save the file and got the message "Invalid linearization curve -- not constantly increasing". I changed the 94 values to 93, 93.5 and 94 and got the same message. I then tried entering the LAB values and I still get the message.


How do I enter the 21 values correctly into this field so that I can linearize the curve?

Re: Linearization Problems

2015-03-04 by homershannon@...

I can add that if I remove the 21st entry the curve is accepted. Also, I can change the last entry from 2 to 5 and it is accepted. 4 also works but not 3. Huh?

Re: Linearization Problems

2015-03-04 by homershannon@...

I can add that if I remove the 21st entry the curve is accepted. Also, I can change the last entry from 2 to 5 and it is accepted. 4 also works but not 3. Huh?

Re: Linearization Problems

2015-03-04 by richard@...

There needs to be at least a 1 L* difference from one step to the next, aside from reversals, that is most often the cause of the "not constantly increasing error".

What is problematic is that if those are luminosity readings, 94 should be paper white, and those readings should be at the beginning, not the end (unless you are using this for making digital negatives), If they are all the same then that means you don't have any tone until the 15% patch, or your spectro is not calibrating right.

You can try decreasing the gray highlight value or increasing the gray shadow value to separate those steps some more.

What equipment/paper/inks are you using?

Richard Boutwell

Re: Linearization Problems

2015-03-04 by homershannon@...

I'm working with the MIS UT14 inkset in an Epson 1400. I'm printing on RR Ultrapro Satin 3 paper. I did eventually figure out that if you keep a difference of 2 between the values in any two boxes, the curve is accepted. I also figured out that you can 'tune' the values in the boxes by watching the curve panel and working to get it nice and smooth.

Ultimately, I did get two .qdif files that print very well and I think I have a handle on using the tool. It only took about three years to figure it out.!

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: Linearization Problems

2015-03-04 by Jacques Caron

Glad for you

I'm still fighting it but… it's only been two years! It figures!

Eb6 with an Epson 1430. hanks for the comments about that "difference of 2". I'll sure check that out.

Jacques
Le 2015-03-04 à 18:07, "homershannon@... [QuadtoneRIP]" <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> a écrit :



I'm working with the MIS UT14 inkset in an Epson 1400. I'm printing on RR Ultrapro Satin 3 paper. I did eventually figure out that if you keep a difference of 2 between the values in any two boxes, the curve is accepted. I also figured out that you can 'tune' the values in the boxes by watching the curve panel and working to get it nice and smooth.

Ultimately, I did get two .qdif files that print very well and I think I have a handle on using the tool. It only took about three years to figure it out.!

Jacques Caron

RE: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: Linearization Problems

2015-03-04 by Edward Wiseman

Hi Homer..

 

I’m still using the curves (.ACV) files you provided me with last year, and they do seem to work well with the “new” UP Satin 4, as well as they did with version 3..I particularly like the warm tone on USP.  As for me digging back into QTR , I’m keeping that on the back burner for now. The results I’m getting for the most part, I’ve been pretty happy with.

 

PS: I haven’t forgotten your “request” from about 6 weeks ago..Storms and illnesses and what have you have caused some re-organization of schedules, and my contact is now in Florida..I still think it’s an idea that may fly.. I’ll get back to you..

 

Eddie
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2015 6:07 PM
To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: Linearization Problems

 

  

I'm working with the MIS UT14 inkset in an Epson 1400. I'm printing on RR Ultrapro Satin 3 paper. I did eventually figure out that if you keep a difference of 2 between the values in any two boxes, the curve is accepted. I also figured out that you can 'tune' the values in the boxes by watching the curve panel and working to get it nice and smooth. 

 

Ultimately, I did get two .qdif files that print very well and I think I have a handle on using the tool. It only took about three years to figure it out.!

Re: Linearization Problems

2015-03-06 by richard@...

I can' keep all the MIS product identifiers straight, but I think the ut14 is a dual tri-tone ink set?

I was experimenting with a method of creating dual quad ink sets to determine if it was important that the two profiles be as close to each other as possible (to me it seems like it is). Depending on the inks used as colorants, they might have a different L* reading for the same ink limit for the same shade from one set to the other. An example: Carbon shade 2 might be 1.3 at 40% and the Selenium might be 1.3 at 45%.

With that in mind, I went to make a workflow to easily ensure that they are the same (or as similar as possible) from set to set. This means matching the profiles for each color set as closely as possible: the max density (or ideal ink limit) for each shade; the exact overlaps for the same shade from one set to the other; the total density; and the final linearization. Its seams like it does make a difference when examining smooth bullseye gradients, but that was with just one day of testing and it might take some more experimentation.

I will see if I can easily post my Excel worksheet for finding the exact cross-over points. That alone might solve some these problems.

Until then you might try the following to see if it helps with linearization, and creating smoother initial profiles.

You can use a GRAY_OVERLAP of 20-40, and then a GRAY_GAMMA of 1.2-1.4 to offset the increased density of bumping up the overlap. This should help in smoothing out the bands where the inks are overlapping (and help when blending two final sets of curves)

If you are still having problems with the 6 partition profiles, try increasing the GRAY_OVERLAP to 60 to about 75, and the GRAY_GAMMA to 1.6-1.8. This will mean you might need to (read: should) lower your ink limits and/or make the max density of each shade be evenly spaced, rather than setting the ink limits globally. If the dmax of shade 1 is 1.65, then shade 2 should be between 1.35-1.4; shade 3 between 1.1-1.2; shade 4 between 0.8-0.9; shade 5 between 0.5-0.6; and shade 6 between 2.5-3 (using density to establish ink limits is easier to see than using the L* readings—I've included the formula below—you first need to convert LAB_L to XYZ_Y, and then do the density conversion)


L* to Density Conversion Function

If L* > 8
Y = ((L + 16)/116)^3
Else
Y = (L * 27)/24389

Density = -log10(Y)




Hope that doesn't further confuse the matter,
Richard Boutwell


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