Homebrew_PCBs

Stefan.

I think you finally got my point. There are many ways
to homebrew pcbs. Some people have more success with
one method or type of equipment than another. Everyone
has different budgets and availibiltiy of parts.
Everyone has their own special requirements. There is
no one single best method.

The purpose of a moderator in a group is to foster
open discussion of the different methods availible.
Not heavy handedly forcing their own ideas as best.

Personally, I hope everyone can find a successful
method to homebrew their pcbs, whether it is singles
of mini production runs. I know I have.

The Chicken Grill Motor Saga is finished.

Myc


--- Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:

> On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 19:10:52 +0200, Alan King
> <alan@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > Chicken grill motor probably is far stronger and
> better geared and
> > lasting
> > etc. But for light or medium duty a $10 shredder
> should do for most
> > people, and
> > that's without hunting too much. They're only $20
> usually retail.
> > Alan
>
>
> For me the main advantage seems to be it is a
> ready-made unit.
> It has a output shaft that can be easily coupled to
> the fuser, like a
> geared motor but really cheap. mine even has a
> switch.
> I dunno, but with a paper shredder i would think you
> might get one where
> the motor isn't a closed unit, rather a bunch of
> plastic gears set into
> the plastic case, which could be tricky to use.
> I've seen them motors for less than 10eur in the DIY
> store ads.
>
> I did make my point, i think it is a good solution,
> do whatever you want,
> end of story.
>
> ST
>
>
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On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 19:34:03 +0200, Mycroft2152 <mycroft2152@...>
wrote:

> Stefan.
> I think you finally got my point. There are many ways
> to homebrew pcbs. Some people have more success with
> one method or type of equipment than another. Everyone
> has different budgets and availibiltiy of parts.
> Everyone has their own special requirements. There is
> no one single best method.
> The purpose of a moderator in a group is to foster
> open discussion of the different methods availible.
> Not heavy handedly forcing their own ideas as best.
> Personally, I hope everyone can find a successful
> method to homebrew their pcbs, whether it is singles
> of mini production runs. I know I have.
> The Chicken Grill Motor Saga is finished.
> Myc

Well, then you should probaly think if you should call other methods
better if you probably haven't tried either of them.
Neither me nor you is a mod. Steve does not usually need to direct any
discussion.

I can voice my opinion that the fuser and chicken grill motor is a good
combination as often as i like, just as others can suggest the H200 as
often as they want. (when relevant and within reason of course). You claim
to understand that there are many right ways, and yet you distaste my
chicken grill motor for some reason and i get the impression you would
prefer i didn't mention it. I will not discuss it with you any more - in
that aspect the CGM saga is over for you, but do not think i will not
suggest it again in the future when the question comes up. In that aspect
the CGM motor is no more finished than the H200.
I really do not have time for this.

ST

ST,

Any new ideas for home brewing pcbs are always appreciated.

I look forward to hearing about your Chicken Grill Motor again and
again and again and again.

Myc


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan"
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:

> On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 19:34:03 +0200, Mycroft2152

<mycroft2152@y...>

> wrote:
>
> > Stefan.
> > I think you finally got my point. There are many ways
> > to homebrew pcbs. Some people have more success with
> > one method or type of equipment than another. Everyone
> > has different budgets and availibiltiy of parts.
> > Everyone has their own special requirements. There is
> > no one single best method.
> > The purpose of a moderator in a group is to foster
> > open discussion of the different methods availible.
> > Not heavy handedly forcing their own ideas as best.
> > Personally, I hope everyone can find a successful
> > method to homebrew their pcbs, whether it is singles
> > of mini production runs. I know I have.
> > The Chicken Grill Motor Saga is finished.
> > Myc
>
>
> Well, then you should probaly think if you should call other

methods

> better if you probably haven't tried either of them.
> Neither me nor you is a mod. Steve does not usually need to direct

any

> discussion.
>
> I can voice my opinion that the fuser and chicken grill motor is a

good

> combination as often as i like, just as others can suggest the

H200 as

> often as they want. (when relevant and within reason of course).

You claim

> to understand that there are many right ways, and yet you distaste

my

> chicken grill motor for some reason and i get the impression you

would

> prefer i didn't mention it. I will not discuss it with you any

more - in

> that aspect the CGM saga is over for you, but do not think i will

not

> suggest it again in the future when the question comes up. In that

aspect

> the CGM motor is no more finished than the H200.
> I really do not have time for this.
>
> ST

Actually, I did buy a chicken grill thingy and never used it. I tried it on
for size, but we store it too far from the BBQ so we never use it.

I just might scrap that one day and forget to tell the wife.

Robert
:D



-----Message d'origine-----
De : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] De
la part de mycroft2152
Envoyé : juin 4 2005 14:28
À : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Objet : [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: End of the Chicken Grill Motor Saga


ST,

Any new ideas for home brewing pcbs are always appreciated.

I look forward to hearing about your Chicken Grill Motor again and
again and again and again.

Myc


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan"
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:

> On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 19:34:03 +0200, Mycroft2152

<mycroft2152@y...>

> wrote:
>
> > Stefan.
> > I think you finally got my point. There are many ways
> > to homebrew pcbs. Some people have more success with
> > one method or type of equipment than another. Everyone
> > has different budgets and availibiltiy of parts.
> > Everyone has their own special requirements. There is
> > no one single best method.
> > The purpose of a moderator in a group is to foster
> > open discussion of the different methods availible.
> > Not heavy handedly forcing their own ideas as best. Personally, I
> > hope everyone can find a successful method to homebrew their pcbs,
> > whether it is singles of mini production runs. I know I have.
> > The Chicken Grill Motor Saga is finished.
> > Myc
>
>
> Well, then you should probaly think if you should call other

methods

> better if you probably haven't tried either of them.
> Neither me nor you is a mod. Steve does not usually need to direct

any

> discussion.
>
> I can voice my opinion that the fuser and chicken grill motor is a

good

> combination as often as i like, just as others can suggest the

H200 as

> often as they want. (when relevant and within reason of course).

You claim

> to understand that there are many right ways, and yet you distaste

my

> chicken grill motor for some reason and i get the impression you

would

> prefer i didn't mention it. I will not discuss it with you any

more - in

> that aspect the CGM saga is over for you, but do not think i will

not

> suggest it again in the future when the question comes up. In that

aspect

> the CGM motor is no more finished than the H200.
> I really do not have time for this.
>
> ST

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
Yahoo! Groups Links

Stefan is not a moderator. I don't see him "pushing" anything here,
just giving his opinions on advantages/disadvantages.

There are no moderators, just me, the listowner.

Steve Greenfield

PS my freakin' $250 cross-cut shredder that I bought years ago died
after only a couple of years, took it apart and found it had all
plastic gears! Yuck. It was no better made than the $20 shredder I
bought to replace it.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mycroft2152 <mycroft2152@y...>
wrote:

> Stefan.
>
> I think you finally got my point. There are many ways
> to homebrew pcbs. Some people have more success with
> one method or type of equipment than another. Everyone
> has different budgets and availibiltiy of parts.
> Everyone has their own special requirements. There is
> no one single best method.
>
> The purpose of a moderator in a group is to foster
> open discussion of the different methods availible.
> Not heavy handedly forcing their own ideas as best.
>
> Personally, I hope everyone can find a successful
> method to homebrew their pcbs, whether it is singles
> of mini production runs. I know I have.
>
> The Chicken Grill Motor Saga is finished.
>
> Myc
>
>
> --- Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
> > On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 19:10:52 +0200, Alan King
> > <alan@n...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Chicken grill motor probably is far stronger and
> > better geared and
> > > lasting
> > > etc. But for light or medium duty a $10 shredder
> > should do for most
> > > people, and
> > > that's without hunting too much. They're only $20
> > usually retail.
> > > Alan
> >
> >
> > For me the main advantage seems to be it is a
> > ready-made unit.
> > It has a output shaft that can be easily coupled to
> > the fuser, like a
> > geared motor but really cheap. mine even has a
> > switch.
> > I dunno, but with a paper shredder i would think you
> > might get one where
> > the motor isn't a closed unit, rather a bunch of
> > plastic gears set into
> > the plastic case, which could be tricky to use.
> > I've seen them motors for less than 10eur in the DIY
> > store ads.
> >
> > I did make my point, i think it is a good solution,
> > do whatever you want,
> > end of story.
> >
> > ST

Has anyone had any experience using this product?
http://www.internationaleyelets.com/
It looks like we have to handle the eyelets individually. Ugh...

I remember another manual system of thru-hole pin insertion, but I can't
find the link any more. It looked like a mechanical pencil with breakaway
inserts. You click out one pin from the tool, insert in the via hole, and
break it off by leaning the tool. Does anyone remember seeing this?

I was thinking of the drilling station and how to automate via insertion.
If we mount this tool instead of the drill, the DRILL file already has all
the coordinates for the vias. The last thin I have to figure is how to
break off the pin. I was thinking of adding a 4th axis, making the drill
rotate clockwise a few degrees or something.

Ideas, comments, insults?

Robert
:)








Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
Yahoo! Groups Links

Robert Hedan wrote:

> Has anyone had any experience using this product?
> http://www.internationaleyelets.com/
> It looks like we have to handle the eyelets individually. Ugh...
>
> I remember another manual system of thru-hole pin insertion, but I can't
> find the link any more. It looked like a mechanical pencil with breakaway
> inserts. You click out one pin from the tool, insert in the via hole, and
> break it off by leaning the tool. Does anyone remember seeing this?
>
> I was thinking of the drilling station and how to automate via insertion.
> If we mount this tool instead of the drill, the DRILL file already has all
> the coordinates for the vias. The last thin I have to figure is how to
> break off the pin. I was thinking of adding a 4th axis, making the drill
> rotate clockwise a few degrees or something.
>
> Ideas, comments, insults?
>
> Robert
> :)
>

Well realize that those via tubes cost money. Plus the crimping operation is
a PITA for them. Could be done, but a PITA. Their only real benefit is for
through hole where a DIP pin goes, not hard to put seperate just wire vias right
beside DIP pins etc.


Feed wire through the board, 1/16" or so extra. Move the board slightly, so
a block just above and just below catch the wire and start to bend it. Cut the
wire just above the board, same 1/16" or so. Push the board on through the
blocks, bending the wire ends the rest of the way over. You have a solid wire
via, only needs the same soldering both sides required by the other types. Just
over 30 gauge hole and 30 gauge wire should work easily. A breeze to do with a
driller that slides the board instead of the drill etc. Drill, wire feed, and
bending blocks all stationary and within an inch or so of each other.

And cast the right LED color over the board (Blue or green since copper is
reddish) and the copper traces will be darker and a silver or tin plated wire
will almost glow. Easy to quickly solder all the vias both top and bottom if
they stand out so well.

Could probably do 100 vias within 5 minutes unattended, likely quite a bit
faster than that. Just come back and put it under the light, solder them all in
a few minutes.

I have many things on the burner at the moment, but this will be something
done soon enough. I have no doubt at all I can get this working, it's fairly
simple. Won't take any special parts either. Several other methods could be
made to work, but this is the most simple I've thought of so far.

Custom machines like this are why I need to hurry and finish off the motor
controller boards. 10 or 20 of them laying around and it'll be fairly easy to
get this stuff going.

Alan

"Well realize that those via tubes cost money. Plus the crimping operation
is
a PITA for them."

I was thinking of the plugs, not the tubes, sorry. I just read up on the
tubes, yuck.

----------------------

"Feed wire through the board, 1/16" or so extra. Move the board slightly,
so
a block just above and just below catch the wire and start to bend it. Cut
the
wire just above the board, same 1/16" or so. Push the board on through the
blocks, bending the wire ends the rest of the way over."

The bottom block could make a full pass and stop in place, having bent the
wire and now supporting it in place, a small snipper mounted on a solenoid
slides out, cuts, opens and slides back in, the top block makes a full pass
and then both blocks retreat. I like that, straightforward, synchronized
motion.

----------------------

"Just over 30 gauge hole and 30 gauge wire should work easily."

I don't know what 30 gauge wire is, but I do have .030" copper wire. I get
this at the Dollar and Up store of all places, in the Arts & Craft section.
It's cheap and we can get tons of this stuff.

----------------------

"A breeze to do with a driller that slides the board instead of the drill
etc. Drill, wire feed, and bending blocks all stationary and within an inch
or so of each other."

Well, I was thinking of using a moving drill, but now that you mention it, I
could change my idea to a center-mounted stationary drill, and have a
platform slide over another platform.

Also, I could install several other tools on the sides, front and back of
the drill. Once you calculate the offset from the drill center to each tool
center, the rest is easy.

----------------------

"And cast the right LED color over the board (Blue or green since copper is
reddish) and the copper traces will be darker and a silver or tin plated
wire
will almost glow. Easy to quickly solder all the vias both top and bottom
if
they stand out so well."

I was thinking on using the toaster-oven reflow technique for my soldering.
I have a new digital one waiting just for that.


Robert
:)



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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
Yahoo! Groups Links

Alan, I see a problem with this idea. How are you going to support the PCB
in place?

I was planning on using this design:
http://www.vertice.cl/cnc1/
But with the gantry center-mounted for more surface coverage.

I would have to place the rods at the extremities of the sliding platforms,
I can do that. I'd have to place the screw along one side, I can do that
too.

But what about the bottom block? How do you get it to come up right
alongside the via bole, the platforms are going to be in the way? I was
thinking of using a variable-dimension forcefield to hold the PCB in place,
waaaaay easier.

Robert
:)





Feed wire through the board, 1/16" or so extra. Move the board slightly, so

a block just above and just below catch the wire and start to bend it. Cut
the
wire just above the board, same 1/16" or so. Push the board on through the
blocks, bending the wire ends the rest of the way over.

Alan






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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
Yahoo! Groups Links

G'day Robert

The brand is HARWIN
The description is 'Linking Pins'
Available in two diameters
Available from Farnell and probably others (Newark ?)

Hope this helps

Cheers
Brian

-------Original Message-------

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: 06/05/05 14:04:26
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Via plugging

Has anyone had any experience using this product?
http://www.internationaleyelets.com/
It looks like we have to handle the eyelets individually. Ugh...

I remember another manual system of thru-hole pin insertion, but I can't
find the link any more. It looked like a mechanical pencil with breakaway
inserts. You click out one pin from the tool, insert in the via hole, and
break it off by leaning the tool. Does anyone remember seeing this?

I was thinking of the drilling station and how to automate via insertion.
If we mount this tool instead of the drill, the DRILL file already has all
the coordinates for the vias. The last thin I have to figure is how to
break off the pin. I was thinking of adding a 4th axis, making the drill
rotate clockwise a few degrees or something.

Ideas, comments, insults?

Robert
:)








Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
Yahoo! Groups Links








Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs




Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In message <014201c56983$97bf3510$0300a8c0@p41900>
Robert Hedan <robert.hedan@...> wrote:

> I remember another manual system of thru-hole pin insertion, but I can't
> find the link any more. It looked like a mechanical pencil with breakaway
> inserts. You click out one pin from the tool, insert in the via hole, and
> break it off by leaning the tool. Does anyone remember seeing this?

Sounds like the Multicore Copperset system. You use a 0.9mm mechanical
pencil to insert the eyelet, then press it into place with a modified
automatic centre-punch and an anvil (any decent sized lump of metal should
work - an old heatsink maybe).

There's some info on using Copperset on <http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/>,
including how to use it without the expensive "starter kit". I also spotted
some info on the Harwin via pins - Harwin P/N T1559-01, Farnell P/N 143-738.
Most decent electronics component distributors stock them.

Later.
--
Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB,
philpem@... | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice,
http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI
... "42? 7 and a half million years and all you can come up with is 42?!"

On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 11:09:04 +0200, Philip Pemberton
<philpem@...> wrote:

> Sounds like the Multicore Copperset system. You use a 0.9mm mechanical
> pencil to insert the eyelet, then press it into place with a modified
> automatic centre-punch and an anvil (any decent sized lump of metal
> should
> work - an old heatsink maybe).
> There's some info on using Copperset on
> <http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/>,
> including how to use it without the expensive "starter kit". I also
> spotted
> some info on the Harwin via pins - Harwin P/N T1559-01, Farnell P/N
> 143-738.
> Most decent electronics component distributors stock them.
> Later.

we discussed some time ago it might not be hard to electroplate solder
wire with copper.
If you plan to use a CNC it could be OK to use this homemade wire, and
some kind of side cutting pliers mounted to the machine to cut the wire
just over the hole. i guess if the machine is strong enough you could also
press it with it.

Still i'm not convinced these connections are reliable.

IMO it is still best to do everything to keep via count low (that is no
autorouting). If you use component legs as vias it works out ok. I usually
use ICs and connectors in throughhole version, and passives in SMD, this
allows good density and enough legs for vias.
You don't really need any vias this way, usually.

ST

Thanks!

www.harwin.com

Track pin, #T1558-01 is good for .8mm PCBs.

Robert
:)



-----Message d'origine-----
De : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] De
la part de Brian Clancy
Envoyé : juin 5 2005 03:22
À : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Objet : Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Via plugging


G'day Robert

The brand is HARWIN
The description is 'Linking Pins'
Available in two diameters
Available from Farnell and probably others (Newark ?)

Hope this helps

Cheers
Brian

-------Original Message-------

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: 06/05/05 14:04:26
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Via plugging

Has anyone had any experience using this product?
http://www.internationaleyelets.com/
It looks like we have to handle the eyelets individually. Ugh...

I remember another manual system of thru-hole pin insertion, but I can't
find the link any more. It looked like a mechanical pencil with breakaway
inserts. You click out one pin from the tool, insert in the via hole, and
break it off by leaning the tool. Does anyone remember seeing this?

I was thinking of the drilling station and how to automate via insertion. If
we mount this tool instead of the drill, the DRILL file already has all the
coordinates for the vias. The last thin I have to figure is how to break
off the pin. I was thinking of adding a 4th axis, making the drill rotate
clockwise a few degrees or something.

Ideas, comments, insults?

Robert
:)








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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
Yahoo! Groups Links








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To visit your group on the web, go to:
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To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
Yahoo! Groups Links

I think I figured out how to do this.

- have 3-4 holding-holes on the platform.
- drill the hole pattern into a PCB-holding plate, 1 plate per circuit.
- place the PCB-holding plate on these holding holes, fix securely, maybe, I
guess.
- mount the PCB on the plate.
- drill the holes.
- mount a centerpunch-looking thing on the drill (how's that for
techy-talk).
- place/snap track pins using a feeder.
- press the track pin using the centerpunch-looking thing.

Have both sides of the track pins soldered during the reflow process, or do
it manually if you want.

What do you think?

Robert
:)





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Robert Hedan wrote:

> Alan, I see a problem with this idea. How are you going to support the PCB
> in place?
>
> I was planning on using this design:
> http://www.vertice.cl/cnc1/
> But with the gantry center-mounted for more surface coverage.
>
> I would have to place the rods at the extremities of the sliding platforms,
> I can do that. I'd have to place the screw along one side, I can do that
> too.
>
> But what about the bottom block? How do you get it to come up right
> alongside the via bole, the platforms are going to be in the way? I was
> thinking of using a variable-dimension forcefield to hold the PCB in place,
> waaaaay easier.
>
> Robert
> :)
>

Nope, bottom block is fixed, top block is fixed right over it. Wire feed is
just in front of the top block. Board is held at two edges, there is nothing
above or below the board. Via taken to wire insertion, moved slightly to the
back so block corners catch it, knife cuts parallel to board and cuts against
top block. Once cut move back just a bit more to finish the top and bottom
bends, then on to the next via.

You need a diagram more than words, what I have in my head is very simple,
it'll obviously work..

Alan

In a message dated 6/4/2005 11:06:38 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
robert.hedan@... writes:

Has anyone had any experience using this product?
_http://www.internationaleyelets.com/_ (http://www.internationaleyelets.com/) <<
Yes. If you need to make ONE PCB with up to, say, 50 PTH, the tiny
gold-plated (or bright tin, if you are very poor) rivets are the way to go. If you
must do ten or twenty identical PCB's, getting 'em done professionally with
PTH's is WORTH the little extra cost! I once bought a tiny poly-bag with 1000
tiny gold-plated International Eyelets. Looked to me at a glance I'd NEVER
use that many for prototypes and "one-offs". DID in a couple of years! Then
I found a "deal" of some tin-plated ones that require a 0.06" dia. hole.
Sure, they can accept the lead-wire of a resistor, etc., but they are a tad
large for "IC work". But price was right. However, the tiny gold I.E. ones were
the better product. GO for it!

Wonder if an employee of I.E. is among us, and could give us a link which
would show product-availability, source of printed catalog?, AND pricing,
etc.??? Huh???

Jan Rowland





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]