Homebrew_PCBs

Hi, I've been a member awhile but haven't posted before. I've
reviewed the previous posts on flex circuits and have a few questions.
Can surface mount components be soldered (by hand) without destroying
the components or the laminate? Or would it be better to use a
conductive epoxy? Is there some other bonding method that could be
done at home?

I don't need to flex the circuit, am interested in its thinness to fit
inside a scale model railroad signal head with tight clearances. Feed
wires running up a 1/16" mast need to be attached to the laminate as
well as the LEDs.

The assembly has to fit inside a space .090" wide x .400" high x .058"
deep.

The "board" would have 4 traces on it, one to each of 3 LEDs plus a
common ground. I'm sure I'll have to develop a means of handling
these tiny parts, one sneeze and its start over. I'd expect I'd need
to assemble the components and cut the "board" away from a larger
sheet afterward.

I'd really appreciate any help you can provide on this project.

Thank you,

Ron Ferrel

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 20:32:39 -0000, rwferr1 <ferrron@...> wrote:

>
> Hi, I've been a member awhile but haven't posted before. I've
> reviewed the previous posts on flex circuits and have a few questions.
> Can surface mount components be soldered (by hand) without destroying
> the components or the laminate? Or would it be better to use a
> conductive epoxy? Is there some other bonding method that could be
> done at home?
> I don't need to flex the circuit, am interested in its thinness to fit
> inside a scale model railroad signal head with tight clearances. Feed
> wires running up a 1/16" mast need to be attached to the laminate as
> well as the LEDs.
> The assembly has to fit inside a space .090" wide x .400" high x .058"
> deep.
> The "board" would have 4 traces on it, one to each of 3 LEDs plus a
> common ground. I'm sure I'll have to develop a means of handling
> these tiny parts, one sneeze and its start over. I'd expect I'd need
> to assemble the components and cut the "board" away from a larger
> sheet afterward.
> I'd really appreciate any help you can provide on this project.
> Thank you,
> Ron Ferrel

Maybe you get away by peeling a single glass layer with copper from
standard board, it works quite well. I think the one i tried with is no
real FR4 but some cheaper stuff.

It can be handled like normal PCB and is very thin.

I have never tried, but i'd assume you can hand-solder flex boards ok.
If you want i fetch some scrap flex-stuff from the bin and
desolder/resolder component to see how it goes.

Also consider building the circuit without any board and bonding it solid
with epoxy or ca. after soldering. with very few components this works
quite well.
It might even be possible to glue it to the case of the signal itself.

ST

You can get from circuit board manufacturers just one layer of board
that they make into multi layer boards. We use a Xerox Phasor 840 to
print on these directly, and then etch them. They work wonderfully for
soldering surface mount components to.

Rob

On Feb 11, 2005, at 1:37 PM, Stefan Trethan wrote:

>
> On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 20:32:39 -0000, rwferr1 <ferrron@...> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi, I've been a member awhile but haven't posted before. I've
>> reviewed the previous posts on flex circuits and have a few questions.
>> Can surface mount components be soldered (by hand) without destroying
>> the components or the laminate? Or would it be better to use a
>> conductive epoxy? Is there some other bonding method that could be
>> done at home?
>> I don't need to flex the circuit, am interested in its thinness to fit
>> inside a scale model railroad signal head with tight clearances. Feed
>> wires running up a 1/16" mast need to be attached to the laminate as
>> well as the LEDs.
>> The assembly has to fit inside a space .090" wide x .400" high x .058"
>> deep.
>> The "board" would have 4 traces on it, one to each of 3 LEDs plus a
>> common ground. I'm sure I'll have to develop a means of handling
>> these tiny parts, one sneeze and its start over. I'd expect I'd need
>> to assemble the components and cut the "board" away from a larger
>> sheet afterward.
>> I'd really appreciate any help you can provide on this project.
>> Thank you,
>> Ron Ferrel
>
> Maybe you get away by peeling a single glass layer with copper from
> standard board, it works quite well. I think the one i tried with is no
> real FR4 but some cheaper stuff.
>
> It can be handled like normal PCB and is very thin.
>
> I have never tried, but i'd assume you can hand-solder flex boards ok.
> If you want i fetch some scrap flex-stuff from the bin and
> desolder/resolder component to see how it goes.
>
> Also consider building the circuit without any board and bonding it
> solid
> with epoxy or ca. after soldering. with very few components this works
> quite well.
> It might even be possible to glue it to the case of the signal itself.
>
> ST
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Rob Frohne, Ph.D., P.E.
E.F. Cross School of Engineering
Walla Walla College
http://www.wwc.edu/~frohro/

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Rob Frohne <frohro@w...> wrote:

> You can get from circuit board manufacturers just one layer of

board

> that they make into multi layer boards. We use a Xerox Phasor 840

to

> print on these directly, and then etch them. They work wonderfully

for

> soldering surface mount components to.

Can you provide a few more details on this. Looking at the specs it
looks like the Xerox Phaser is a solid ink printer. Do you have any
pictures of printed board. What are the smallest components you have
printed so far?

Here are the details:

http://www.wwc.edu/academics/departments/engineering/students/classes/
engr357/index.htm

We can do some pretty fine surface mount parts, like QFPs.

Rob

On Feb 17, 2005, at 7:43 PM, javaguy11111 wrote:

>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Rob Frohne <frohro@w...> wrote:
>> You can get from circuit board manufacturers just one layer of
> board
>> that they make into multi layer boards. We use a Xerox Phasor 840
> to
>> print on these directly, and then etch them. They work wonderfully
> for
>> soldering surface mount components to.
>
> Can you provide a few more details on this. Looking at the specs it
> looks like the Xerox Phaser is a solid ink printer. Do you have any
> pictures of printed board. What are the smallest components you have
> printed so far?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Rob Frohne, Ph.D., P.E.
E.F. Cross School of Engineering
Walla Walla College
http://www.wwc.edu/~frohro/

This looks pretty interesting. Are you doing single sided or double
boards this way?

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Rob Frohne <frohro@w...> wrote:
> Here are the details:
>
> http://www.wwc.edu/academics/departments/engineering/students/classes/
> engr357/index.htm
>
> We can do some pretty fine surface mount parts, like QFPs.
>
> Rob
> On Feb 17, 2005, at 7:43 PM, javaguy11111 wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Rob Frohne <frohro@w...> wrote:
> >> You can get from circuit board manufacturers just one layer of
> > board
> >> that they make into multi layer boards. We use a Xerox Phasor 840
> > to
> >> print on these directly, and then etch them. They work wonderfully
> > for
> >> soldering surface mount components to.
> >
> > Can you provide a few more details on this. Looking at the specs it
> > looks like the Xerox Phaser is a solid ink printer. Do you have any
> > pictures of printed board. What are the smallest components you have
> > printed so far?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> --
> Rob Frohne, Ph.D., P.E.
> E.F. Cross School of Engineering
> Walla Walla College
> http://www.wwc.edu/~frohro/

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Rob Frohne <frohro@w...> wrote:

> Here are the details:
>
> http://www.wwc.edu/academics/departments/engineering/students/classes/
> engr357/index.htm
>
> We can do some pretty fine surface mount parts, like QFPs.
>

Hi Rob,

I wonder if you could expand on your instructions?

You print twice, once on card stock and again on the PCB material
taped over the first plot. Is this for double sided a PCB? Or is
the pattern transferred fron the card stock to the PCB?

How does the printer hold up under a use that Xerox probably considers
abuse? How many boards are run through the printer during a term?

Finally does the ink stand up to the CuCl + H2O2 etching as used by
many in this group?

Since the bottom end Xerox 840 is selling for $999 it could be an
ideal solution for homebrewers.

Curt

We have done some of each, but find single sided using all surface
mount components is easiest.

Rob

On Feb 18, 2005, at 10:20 AM, Phil wrote:

>
>
> This looks pretty interesting. Are you doing single sided or double
> boards this way?
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Rob Frohne <frohro@w...> wrote:
>> Here are the details:
>>
>> http://www.wwc.edu/academics/departments/engineering/students/classes/
>> engr357/index.htm
>>
>> We can do some pretty fine surface mount parts, like QFPs.
>>
>> Rob
>> On Feb 17, 2005, at 7:43 PM, javaguy11111 wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Rob Frohne <frohro@w...> wrote:
>>>> You can get from circuit board manufacturers just one layer of
>>> board
>>>> that they make into multi layer boards. We use a Xerox Phasor 840
>>> to
>>>> print on these directly, and then etch them. They work wonderfully
>>> for
>>>> soldering surface mount components to.
>>>
>>> Can you provide a few more details on this. Looking at the specs it
>>> looks like the Xerox Phaser is a solid ink printer. Do you have any
>>> pictures of printed board. What are the smallest components you have
>>> printed so far?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
>>> files:
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Rob Frohne, Ph.D., P.E.
>> E.F. Cross School of Engineering
>> Walla Walla College
>> http://www.wwc.edu/~frohro/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Rob Frohne, Ph.D., P.E.
E.F. Cross School of Engineering
Walla Walla College
http://www.wwc.edu/~frohro/

I'll try to explain.

On Feb 19, 2005, at 10:38 AM, curt_rxr wrote:

>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Rob Frohne <frohro@w...> wrote:
>> Here are the details:
>>
>> http://www.wwc.edu/academics/departments/engineering/students/classes/
>> engr357/index.htm
>>
>> We can do some pretty fine surface mount parts, like QFPs.
>>
> Hi Rob,
>
> I wonder if you could expand on your instructions?
>
> You print twice, once on card stock and again on the PCB material
> taped over the first plot. Is this for double sided a PCB? Or is
> the pattern transferred fron the card stock to the PCB?
The reason we print twice is so that you make sure you are getting what
you want before printing on the circuit board material. It also allows
you to position the circuit board in the right place on the card, so
you get the ink where you need it on the circuit board.
>
> How does the printer hold up under a use that Xerox probably considers
> abuse? How many boards are run through the printer during a term?
We are still worried about this a little. One of our Xerox printers
has developed a problem with the print heads and it is now cheaper to
buy a new printer than to replace the heads. The way we understand how
the printer works though, it is hard to conceive that what we have been
doing caused the problem because the printer prints on a drum which
transfers the ink to the paper or circuit board in our case. These
printers we have been using have been used for printing about 1000
pages a month besides perhaps 50 circuit boards a term.
>
> Finally does the ink stand up to the CuCl + H2O2 etching as used by
> many in this group?
We have been using Sodium peroxide. We also used Feric Chloride (if I
remember right) and it worked for both.
>
> Since the bottom end Xerox 840 is selling for $999 it could be an
> ideal solution for homebrewers.
I think it isn't a bad solution. We have been gluing the flexible
boards onto regular ones if we don't want the flexible attribute. The
thing I like about the process is that it is simple, and very quick for
small boards like my students make for my engineering electronics class
and lab.

Best regards,

Rob
>
> Curt
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Rob Frohne, Ph.D., P.E.
E.F. Cross School of Engineering
Walla Walla College
http://www.wwc.edu/~frohro/