Homebrew PCBs

Thanks to all who replied.
I connected the plotter and it does work...Yay.
Next items/questions/ideas burning holes in my brain...
Is this Dykem(sic) Blue availble in the UK (any alternatives?)
How safe is it?
I have had an idea to try maplin pcb lacquer as the scratch coat...is 
pcb lacquer ferric chloride etch safe?

regards, PK

PK,
	I have no idea if it's available in the UK, but if it's not, there must be something just like it. Machinists use it all the time, and there are tons of machinists in the UK.

	Dykem is basically just lacquer paint. It smells pretty bad when you put it on, but it dries VERY fast and then there's no smell. I'm sure that just about anything similar would work just fine - you want something that won't 'flake' as you scratch it, and something that will resists FeCl (which Dykem does just great).

*Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: onenastyviper [mailto:oneNastyViper@...] 
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 6:06 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] RE: Scratch & Etch




Thanks to all who replied.
I connected the plotter and it does work...Yay.
Next items/questions/ideas burning holes in my brain...
Is this Dykem(sic) Blue availble in the UK (any alternatives?) How safe is it? I have had an idea to try maplin pcb lacquer as the scratch coat...is 
pcb lacquer ferric chloride etch safe?

regards, PK







Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs 
Yahoo! Groups Links



 




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Try Layout blue from http://www.chronos.ltd.uk

RS components http://www.rswww.com also stock layout blue but their web 
site is off line ATM and I haven't got the correct catalogue easily to 
hand. If I remember correctly they stock it in bottles and spray cans.

Les

onenastyviper wrote:

>Thanks to all who replied.
>I connected the plotter and it does work...Yay.
>Next items/questions/ideas burning holes in my brain...
>Is this Dykem(sic) Blue availble in the UK (any alternatives?)
>How safe is it?
>I have had an idea to try maplin pcb lacquer as the scratch coat...is 
>pcb lacquer ferric chloride etch safe?
>
>regards, PK
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>  
>

Hi to all,

Managed to get some metal marking blue for free (yay)...guess 
what...it works as etch resist. Also, it is a reasonable scratch coat.
I tried a test circuit using eagle and AOutlines.ulp
I have put the result in my pictures section. One downside, the blue 
is a total ***&*&*&* to remove afterwards, oh and the traces were a 
little too thin and were eaten away causing open-circuits...live and 
learn I suppose.

regards, PK

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 00:32:53 -0000, onenastyviper  
<oneNastyViper@...> wrote:

>
> Hi to all,
> Managed to get some metal marking blue for free (yay)...guess
> what...it works as etch resist. Also, it is a reasonable scratch coat.
> I tried a test circuit using eagle and AOutlines.ulp
> I have put the result in my pictures section. One downside, the blue
> is a total ***&*&*&* to remove afterwards, oh and the traces were a
> little too thin and were eaten away causing open-circuits...live and
> learn I suppose.
> regards, PK


I would expect it to come off easily with acetone, or even scraping with  
another PCB.

ST

Hi,

I'll try the acetone idea. I did end up scraping the blue off with 
the back of a knife but it was a real pain.

regards PK

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan" 
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
> 
> 
> I would expect it to come off easily with acetone, or even scraping 
with  

> another PCB.
> 
> ST

Cellulose thinners (lacquer thinners in the US) will probably work. In 
the UK it is available cheaply from most motor factors.

Les

onenastyviper wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I'll try the acetone idea. I did end up scraping the blue off with 
>the back of a knife but it was a real pain.
>
>regards PK
>
>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan" 
><stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
>  
>
>>I would expect it to come off easily with acetone, or even scraping 
>>    
>>
>with  
>  
>
>>another PCB.
>>
>>ST
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>



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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.6 - Release Date: 07/02/2005

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:11:11 +0000, Les Newell <lesnewell@...>  
wrote:

>
> Cellulose thinners (lacquer thinners in the US) will probably work. In
> the UK it is available cheaply from most motor factors.
> Les


Maybe even alcohol would work? After all the paint is meant to be removed  
easily.

ST

You would think that wouldn't you, oh well, of to the shops again;-)

regards, PK

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan" 
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
> On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:11:11 +0000, Les Newell <lesnewell@h...>  
> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Cellulose thinners (lacquer thinners in the US) will probably 
work. In
> > the UK it is available cheaply from most motor factors.
> > Les
> 
> 
> Maybe even alcohol would work? After all the paint is meant to be 
removed  

> easily.
> 
> ST

Instead of all the Playing around with stuff that doesn't work very 
well, Why don't you just get some Proper Photo Resist, Make a simple 
Setup with a UV Light and you can than easily do Good Quality Boards.

Its Much Cheaper in the long run. Definately Less Headaches.

Gary

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "onenastyviper" 
<oneNastyViper@h...> wrote:

> 
> You would think that wouldn't you, oh well, of to the shops again;-)
> 
> regards, PK
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan" 
> <stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
> > On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:11:11 +0000, Les Newell <lesnewell@h...>  
> > wrote:
> > 
> > >
> > > Cellulose thinners (lacquer thinners in the US) will probably 
> work. In
> > > the UK it is available cheaply from most motor factors.
> > > Les
> > 
> > 
> > Maybe even alcohol would work? After all the paint is meant to be 
> removed  
> > easily.
> > 
> > ST

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 00:03:05 -0000, Gary <chemelec@...> wrote:

>
> Instead of all the Playing around with stuff that doesn't work very
> well, Why don't you just get some Proper Photo Resist, Make a simple
> Setup with a UV Light and you can than easily do Good Quality Boards.
> Its Much Cheaper in the long run. Definately Less Headaches.
> Gary


I basically agree that scratch and etch isn't worth it.

But why don't YOU stop playing around with UV and start using toner  
transfer? it is much cheaper and much less fuss ;-)

Oh well, you see, everyone should do what he thinks best. If nobody had  
tried we'd still use permanent markers or rub-on symbols in FeCl..

You get my point, everyone should make his own judgements. I appreciate  
your opinion on the matter, but not everyone will find UV as the method of  
choice, been there, done that, have other opinion.


ST

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 00:03:05 -0000, Gary <chemelec@...> wrote:

>
> Instead of all the Playing around with stuff that doesn't work very
> well, Why don't you just get some Proper Photo Resist..............
________________________________________________________________
I'd love to. Where do I get it at less than 270 dollars a quart?
Terry M

Hi guys,

the reason I like the idea of scratch & etch is becuase the initial 
cost outlay for me is very low. The plotter was free, along with a 
few used pens. The only costs so far have been for the etchant and 
some other sprays which I would have bought otherwise.
The machinists blue was free, so the only major expense is time and 
at the moment, I have nothing much else to do.
I would use the UV or toner transfer method but I would have to buy a 
laser printer for TT, also for the UV exposure, I would have to make 
a light box, buy photo-sensitive spray or boards, all of which are 
additional costs.
The scratch & etch method allows me to make 90% of the circuits I 
want with not a lot of outlay using plain copper-clad boards and 
machinist blue.

my $0.02 worth.

regards, PK

Stefan Trethan wrote

>
>Oh well, you see, everyone should do what he thinks best. If nobody had  
>tried we'd still use permanent markers or rub-on symbols in FeCl..
>  
>
I still use FeCl, is there something cheaper / better for a TT board method?
(uk reader)

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 14:37:22 +0000, lez <lez.briddon@...> wrote:

>
> I still use FeCl, is there something cheaper / better for a TT board  
> method?
> (uk reader)


Of course, CuCl is cheaper, and much better as it doesn't stop working  
some day, you can see progress through it, and it doesn't stain that bad  
(well, you don't want it on your clotes anyway, but the tools and working  
surfaces look better).


It is made from HCl and H202 (muriatic acid and hydrogen peroxyde).

To keep it operating one must add tiny amonts of H2O2 and sometimes HCl,  
while the excess liquid must be removed (it keeps growing slowly because  
you add stuff).

I keep it in a glass tank with a well closing lid, where i can just pop in  
a board whenever i want, not mess with different containers and  
storage/useage tanks etc, etc. The only thing i have to do is put it in a  
plastic container after etching (to catch drops) and carry it to the sink  
to rinse. I have made the PCB holder in such a way that it is "remote  
controlled" from the clean side of the holder, which means i don't even  
need gloves because i never come into contact with the etchant. (But  
goggles are still required)

You can find CuCl information in the links section, but before you decide  
to go that route make sure to discuss it here, some of those pages suggest  
stuff you don't need and make it seem overly complicated and expensive.

ST