Homebrew PCBs

Ok, so now I have this lovely double sided board that
I just etched and drilled. (good old TT and dremel
drill press)  
What is troubling me now is I don't know how to solder
the top side of the board.
There is a 10 & 20 pin connector and a 40 pin dip ic
socket that have traces on the top side of the board
covered with plastic. I would have to melt into the
plastic of the sockets and connectors in order to
solder the top of the board.  Is there a "poor man's"
way to plate through the hole so i can just solder
everything on the bottom?
 Any tips or tricks for double sided boards would be
welcome.

Thanks, 
--Tom 


		
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On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 10:54:16 -0800 (PST), Tom Stathes  
<newphreak_16@...> wrote:

> Ok, so now I have this lovely double sided board that
> I just etched and drilled. (good old TT and dremel
> drill press)
> What is troubling me now is I don't know how to solder
> the top side of the board.
> There is a 10 & 20 pin connector and a 40 pin dip ic
> socket that have traces on the top side of the board
> covered with plastic. I would have to melt into the
> plastic of the sockets and connectors in order to
> solder the top of the board.  Is there a "poor man's"
> way to plate through the hole so i can just solder
> everything on the bottom?
>  Any tips or tricks for double sided boards would be
> welcome.
> Thanks,
> --Tom

You need precision turned IC sockets, noting fancy just slightly better.  
they have ~~2mm of the metal exposed under the plastic above the PCB. then  
you take a narrow tip and 1mm or less solder and it will be easy to  
solder. I usually only solder the top-pins which have tracks attached.
For connectors, if you mean 0.64mm square, 100mil pitch connectors you can  
leave the plastic 1 to 2 mm over the PCB and solder in the same way as the  
sockets. There are connectors with longer pins, that helps.
You should solder all pins top then, for mechanical stability reasons.

ST

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Tom Stathes" <newphreak_16@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 6:54 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Question about soldering double sided boards.


>
> Ok, so now I have this lovely double sided board that
> I just etched and drilled. (good old TT and dremel
> drill press)
> What is troubling me now is I don't know how to solder
> the top side of the board.
> There is a 10 & 20 pin connector and a 40 pin dip ic
> socket that have traces on the top side of the board
> covered with plastic. I would have to melt into the
> plastic of the sockets and connectors in order to
> solder the top of the board.  Is there a "poor man's"
> way to plate through the hole so i can just solder
> everything on the bottom?
>  Any tips or tricks for double sided boards would be
> welcome.

You should have designed the board with vias next to each of the pads, and
connected the top and bottom via pads with wire. Failing that you can use
turned-pin sockets and raise them slightly so that you can solder the pins
on the top and bottom of the board. That might not work with the headers.

Leon

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Leon Heller" <leon.heller@d...>
wrote:
> 
> You should have designed the board with vias next to each of the
pads, and
> connected the top and bottom via pads with wire. Failing that you
can use
> turned-pin sockets and raise them slightly so that you can solder
the pins
> on the top and bottom of the board. That might not work with the
headers.
> 
> Leon

It takes a little planning to design to handle the lack of plated
through holes.  You can significantly reduce the number of vias by
making the cross layer connections at component leads where its easy.
 Resistors, caps, unsocketed ICs, diodes, etc all expose their leads
on the component side and are candidates for this.  It turns out (for
me anyway) that I usually only need a few vias when I apply those
"design rules".  

I have heard of a technique where you insert a very thin piece of wire
in the holes where you need the cross layer connection and solder it
on the conponent side being careful not to fill the hole.  Insert the
part and solder the other side.  I've never done it though.

Without plated through holes, I plan my circuit design so there are vias 
where I can solder the occasional wire stub between the top and bottom.  To 
minimize this occurance, I try to limit the traces on the top to power and 
ground only.

The only other option is to drill the offending holes a bit oversized and 
solder a hollow copper rivit in the hole into which the component lead can 
be soldered in a second assembly step.

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Tom Stathes" <newphreak_16@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 1:54 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Question about soldering double sided boards.


>
> Ok, so now I have this lovely double sided board that
> I just etched and drilled. (good old TT and dremel
> drill press)
> What is troubling me now is I don't know how to solder
> the top side of the board.
> There is a 10 & 20 pin connector and a 40 pin dip ic
> socket that have traces on the top side of the board
> covered with plastic. I would have to melt into the
> plastic of the sockets and connectors in order to
> solder the top of the board.  Is there a "poor man's"
> way to plate through the hole so i can just solder
> everything on the bottom?
> Any tips or tricks for double sided boards would be
> welcome.
>
> Thanks,
> --Tom
>
>
>
> __________________________________
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>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> .............
> What is troubling me now is I don't know how to solder
> the top side of the board..........

This is where the miniature eyelets come in. Usually, these are 
installed using two sharp center punches. One goes on each side of the 
eyelet after it's placed in the hole. A "whack" and it's seated to 
stay. Next, a small amount of flux is rubbed on and the eyelet can be 
soldered to both sides of the board without plugging it up. Before you 
install any eyelet, check its clearance with the device pin. If it 
doesn't fit now, it won't fit later either. The ones I have are very 
small, accommodate IC pins and IC pin spacing. Well, .1" at least.
I can't remember where I bought these eyelets but they were expensive 
and now I need some more.
Terry

In a message dated 1/10/2005 12:56:50 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
newphreak_16@... writes:

Is there  a "poor man's"
way to plate through the hole so i can just  solder
everything on the bottom?
Any tips or tricks for double sided  boards 


Tom:  Eyelets.  Google "International Eyelets".     A pain in the gluteous, 
but aside from PTH, just about the ONLY way, if you  can't see the solder-pads 
on top!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In message <20050110185416.73649.qmail@...>
          Tom Stathes <newphreak_16@...> wrote:

> Is there a "poor man's"
> way to plate through the hole so i can just solder
> everything on the bottom?

Yep - wiring pen wire. Get some of the Roadrunner enamelled wire (or normal
enamelled copper wire, about 38SWG), then tin it, push it into the hole and
solder to a track on both sides. Make sure the "bump" on the topside isn't
too high, and also check for conductivity before (and after) putting the
compunent into the board. Solder the pins and that's it.

Later.
-- 
Phil.                              | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB,
philpem@...              | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice,
http://www.philpem.me.uk/          | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI
... RAM = Rarely Adequate Memory

In message <12d.538c37ab.2f148df2@...>
          JanRwl@... wrote:

> Tom:  Eyelets.  Google "International Eyelets".     A pain in the gluteous, 
> but aside from PTH, just about the ONLY way, if you  can't see the solder-pads 
> on top!

There's also the Multicore Copperset system - IIRC there was some info on
improvising tools for it on <http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/>. Basically, you
need a center-punch, a lump of metal to serve as an "anvil", a bunch of
0.85mm drill bits and a mechanical pencil to dispense the rivets.

Later.
-- 
Phil.                              | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB,
philpem@...              | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice,
http://www.philpem.me.uk/          | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI
... A pound of puppies; a college of cardinals; a bowl of weevils

Hi,

> Yep - wiring pen wire. Get some of the Roadrunner enamelled 
> wire (or normal enamelled copper wire, about 38SWG), then 
> tin it, push it into the hole and solder to a track on 
> both sides.

You mention wiring pen wire. Does the insulation melt using a soldering
iron without having to strip the wire?
I've been trying to locate some wire for surface mount prototyping, like
this:
http://elm-chan.org/docs/wire/wiring_e.html

Do you have a source for the wire?

Thanks

--
Dave Hylands
Vancouver, BC, Canada
http://www.DaveHylands.com/

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Dave Hylands" <dhylands@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 2:24 PM
Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Question about soldering double sided boards.


>
> Hi,
>
>> Yep - wiring pen wire. Get some of the Roadrunner enamelled
>> wire (or normal enamelled copper wire, about 38SWG), then
>> tin it, push it into the hole and solder to a track on
>> both sides.
>
> You mention wiring pen wire. Does the insulation melt using a soldering
> iron without having to strip the wire?

Yes, the insulation is "solder-through' and acts as a flux when it is burnt.

> I've been trying to locate some wire for surface mount prototyping, like
> this:
> http://elm-chan.org/docs/wire/wiring_e.html

> Do you have a source for the wire?

Farnell stocks Roadrunner wire.

Leon




-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 06/01/2005

Dave - my local Radio Shack here in Toronto sells wire wrap wire,
about 28 gauge, with  a thin insulation which reasily melts away when
soldered. It was on a spool about 2" in diameter. The one I have has
no RS number.  But perhaps it's worth checking in a store. It was on
sale, it looks like they are unloading some hobbyist stuff.

Grant

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Hylands" <dhylands@b...>
wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> > Yep - wiring pen wire. Get some of the Roadrunner enamelled 
> > wire (or normal enamelled copper wire, about 38SWG), then 
> > tin it, push it into the hole and solder to a track on 
> > both sides.
> 
> You mention wiring pen wire. Does the insulation melt using a soldering
> iron without having to strip the wire?
> I've been trying to locate some wire for surface mount prototyping, like
> this:
> http://elm-chan.org/docs/wire/wiring_e.html
> 
> Do you have a source for the wire?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> --
> Dave Hylands
> Vancouver, BC, Canada
> http://www.DaveHylands.com/

It is also possible to buy small gauge bus wire, which has no 
insulation to contend with.

On Jan 12, 2005, at 12:27 AM, grantfair2001 wrote:

>
>
> Dave - my local Radio Shack here in Toronto sells wire wrap wire,
> about 28 gauge, with  a thin insulation which reasily melts away when
> soldered. It was on a spool about 2" in diameter. The one I have has
> no RS number.  But perhaps it's worth checking in a store. It was on
> sale, it looks like they are unloading some hobbyist stuff.
>
> Grant

Or scrounge it from stranded wire.  

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Randy Wilson <yahooey@r...> wrote:

> It is also possible to buy small gauge bus wire, which has no 
> insulation to contend with.
> 
> On Jan 12, 2005, at 12:27 AM, grantfair2001 wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > Dave - my local Radio Shack here in Toronto sells wire wrap wire,
> > about 28 gauge, with  a thin insulation which reasily melts away when
> > soldered. It was on a spool about 2" in diameter. The one I have has
> > no RS number.  But perhaps it's worth checking in a store. It was on
> > sale, it looks like they are unloading some hobbyist stuff.
> >
> > Grant

Hi Grant,

> Dave - my local Radio Shack here in Toronto sells wire wrap wire,
> about 28 gauge, with  a thin insulation which reasily melts away when
> soldered. It was on a spool about 2" in diameter. The one I have has
> no RS number.  But perhaps it's worth checking in a store. It was on
> sale, it looks like they are unloading some hobbyist stuff.

Thanks - I'll check it out. I have some wire wrap wire (can't remember
where I got it), but the insulation seems to have a mind of its own, and
only melts when you don't want it to.

I'm also running down a lead on some 130C polyurethane coated wire (the
insulation supposedly melts around 600F)

--
Dave Hylands
Vancouver, BC, Canada
http://www.DaveHylands.com/

True, but I thought we were being formal. <grin>

On Jan 12, 2005, at 1:53 AM, Phil wrote:

>
>
> Or scrounge it from stranded wire.
>

Found a source for eyelets:

 

www.circuittechctr.com <http://www.circuittechctr.com/> 

 

They sell various size eyelets for about $20 per 100 eyelets. They also sell
a really cool looking press, but at nearly $900, I'm gonna have to make my
own. They also have a pretty extensive series of guide on how to do varous
types of rework operations.

 

Jay Arnold 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What I should have said is more like $30 per 100 eyelets.

 

  _____  

From: Jay Arnold [mailto:ajarnold@...] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 5:03 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Question about soldering double sided boards.

 

Found a source for eyelets:



www.circuittechctr.com <http://www.circuittechctr.com/> 



They sell various size eyelets for about $20 per 100 eyelets. They also sell
a really cool looking press, but at nearly $900, I'm gonna have to make my
own. They also have a pretty extensive series of guide on how to do varous
types of rework operations.



Jay Arnold 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs 




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In message <24CDBA67F085904999751B3C4F9E8C0BE3C28E@...>
          "Dave Hylands" <dhylands@...> wrote:

> You mention wiring pen wire. Does the insulation melt using a soldering
> iron without having to strip the wire?

Yep.

> I've been trying to locate some wire for surface mount prototyping, like
> this:
> http://elm-chan.org/docs/wire/wiring_e.html
> 
> Do you have a source for the wire?

Funny - I did the same thing... Heh.
Farnell sell the wire - www.farnell.com. Not sure what the order code is off
hand; I could look it up if you can't find it in the online catalogue.

Later.
-- 
Phil.                              | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB,
philpem@...              | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice,
http://www.philpem.me.uk/          | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI
... Since you're going to die anyway, can we use you as a shield?

Hi Dave-

I gather the other popular wire wrap wire is teflon insulated; one
common brand name is "Kynar", and you are right, the insulation is
actually resistant to melting, as the web page you included points out.

If you find a ready source of the polyurethane coated wire I'd be
interested, since the melt-insulation-solder-wire procedure is great
for those traces you need to add after the PCB has been etched <g>.
That's what I am using the RS wire wrap wire for but it won't last
forever.

Here's the stuff I am talking about-

RS 278-502

See:

http://www.radioshack.ca/estore/category.aspx?language=en-CA&catalog=RadioShack&category=Hook+Up+Wire&pagenum=1

Seems that does have kynar insulation, but it melted ok on my last
patch up. But it seems like you need the PUE insulated type. Oh well.

Grant

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Hylands" <dhylands@b...>
wrote:

> Hi Grant,
> 
> > Dave - my local Radio Shack here in Toronto sells wire wrap wire,
> > about 28 gauge, with  a thin insulation which reasily melts away when
> > soldered. It was on a spool about 2" in diameter. The one I have has
> > no RS number.  But perhaps it's worth checking in a store. It was on
> > sale, it looks like they are unloading some hobbyist stuff.
> 
> Thanks - I'll check it out. I have some wire wrap wire (can't remember
> where I got it), but the insulation seems to have a mind of its own, and
> only melts when you don't want it to.
> 
> I'm also running down a lead on some 130C polyurethane coated wire (the
> insulation supposedly melts around 600F)
> 
> --
> Dave Hylands
> Vancouver, BC, Canada
> http://www.DaveHylands.com/

Look for a source of magnet wire (for winding coils, transformers, and
motors).  These come in sizes from quite heavy down to too thin to be
manually used; some have melting tyoe insulation that can be soldered
without mechanical stripping.

If you can't find that, General Cement used to make a liquid called
"Strip-X," sold in 1 ounce botttles by electronic suppliers, that
removed baked varnishes and enamels.

Steve Bartlett

grantfair2001 wrote:

> 
> Hi Dave-
> ...
> If you find a ready source of the polyurethane coated wire I'd be
> interested, since the melt-insulation-solder-wire procedure is great
> for those traces you need to add after the PCB has been etched <g>.
> That's what I am using the RS wire wrap wire for but it won't last
> forever.
> ...
> Grant

Strip-X will remove the enamel/varnish but it is slow and messy to 
use.  For thin wire, I simply quickly pass it thru a flame and then 
wipe off the charred enamel/varnish.

Lyman

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Bartlett 
<tower.op@v...> wrote:
> Look for a source of magnet wire (for winding coils, transformers, 
and
> motors).  These come in sizes from quite heavy down to too thin to 
be
> manually used; some have melting tyoe insulation that can be 
soldered

> without mechanical stripping.
> 
> If you can't find that, General Cement used to make a liquid called
> "Strip-X," sold in 1 ounce botttles by electronic suppliers, that
> removed baked varnishes and enamels.
> 
> Steve Bartlett
>

I was able to solder those headers by placing the
plastic as far aboce the pcb as possile as i could so
i couls still solder the bottem.  The fact that im
using thin pcb makes it a little easier...  The IC
socket, I stupidly soldered it before I started this
thread. (Actualy its the reason for it.) I just melted
into it ti solder the pins to the traces.  It workes,
but dont look so pretty. Mabey ill touch it up with
some epoxy to make it look a little better.  

I found a good way to do the vias, I bend some thin
copper wire into a "cotter pin" shape. Insert into the
via all the way,and spread like you would a cotter
pin. It stays in place, and is easy to solder on the
top and bottem., then just clip the excess wire off.
This works best if there is a copper ring around the
whole via. I tend to tare the via pad off when
drilling the hole and just have track going to a hole.
It still works but may take an extra second.
--Tom 





--- Radra <infositeus@...> wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> Strip-X will remove the enamel/varnish but it is
> slow and messy to 
> use.  For thin wire, I simply quickly pass it thru a
> flame and then 
> wipe off the charred enamel/varnish.
> 
> Lyman
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stephen
> Bartlett 
> <tower.op@v...> wrote:
> > Look for a source of magnet wire (for winding
> coils, transformers, 
> and
> > motors).  These come in sizes from quite heavy
> down to too thin to 
> be
> > manually used; some have melting tyoe insulation
> that can be 
> soldered
> > without mechanical stripping.
> > 
> > If you can't find that, General Cement used to
> make a liquid called
> > "Strip-X," sold in 1 ounce botttles by electronic
> suppliers, that
> > removed baked varnishes and enamels.
> > 
> > Steve Bartlett
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 



		
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On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 23:59:19 -0800 (PST), Tom Stathes  
<newphreak_16@...> wrote:

>
> I found a good way to do the vias, I bend some thin
> copper wire into a "cotter pin" shape. Insert into the
> via all the way,and spread like you would a cotter
> pin. It stays in place, and is easy to solder on the
> top and bottem., then just clip the excess wire off.
> This works best if there is a copper ring around the
> whole via. I tend to tare the via pad off when
> drilling the hole and just have track going to a hole.
> It still works but may take an extra second.
> --Tom


Nice idea, you might want to use larger pads for vias as the default ones  
are meant for throughhole plated boards.

The cotter pin is a little much work forming IMO, perhaps it could be  
accelerated by winding copper wire around two parallel rods, and then  
pressing together in the middle. then cut through the middle and you get a  
pin each side, each loop. Must try.

Another fast method is to use a long wire and thread it through all the  
vias you find, then solder, and then cut the connecting pieces. Wasteful  
for the wire but if you take it from scrap doesn't matter.

Another thing useful for vias is solder pins, they can be hammered in with  
a tool (rod with a hole on the end) and stay in the hole due to friction.  
Thinking of it it would be easy to use small pieces of wire instead of the  
pins, placed with a similar tool. just cut the excess. cutting diagonally  
will make insertion easier i guess.

ST

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan"
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
...
> Another fast method is to use a long wire and thread it through all
the  
> vias you find, then solder, and then cut the connecting pieces.
Wasteful  
> for the wire but if you take it from scrap doesn't matter.

That's how I do it.  In addition, the wire, before you trim it off,
makes a good place to clip on a test lead for continuity checking. 
You should always test the vias to see that they actually are
connected.  It is really frustrating trying to chase down why your
board doesn't work when one of your vias is open.

Phil