Homebrew PCBs

Hi All,
        I have found a great PCB layout program which can be 
downloaded free from ...

http://b.urbani.free.fr

One small snag is that it is in French, not one of my languages,  
but in the main is very easy to understand. It can output both 
Gerber RS-274X and Excellon format 2 drill files. My problem is as 
follows. When I save a layout as a drill file, a panel pops up 
telling me that the file has been created. However I don't know 
where it saves it and also do not know what the file type is. Does 
anyone have the answer to this please ?

John.

there are many free PCB layout program that use english (I assume
that's one of your languages), why not use one of them? 

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "hyundaigrey" <moonshadow@n...>
wrote:

> 
> Hi All,
>         I have found a great PCB layout program which can be 
> downloaded free from ...
> 
> http://b.urbani.free.fr
> 
> One small snag is that it is in French, not one of my languages,  
> but in the main is very easy to understand. It can output both 
> Gerber RS-274X and Excellon format 2 drill files. My problem is as 
> follows. When I save a layout as a drill file, a panel pops up 
> telling me that the file has been created. However I don't know 
> where it saves it and also do not know what the file type is. Does 
> anyone have the answer to this please ?
> 
> John.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> 
> there are many free PCB layout program that use english (I assume
> that's one of your languages), why not use one of them? 
> 

I really like the Protel Easytrax program:

http://www.protel.com/downloads/
http://www.xs4all.nl/~pa0nhc/ibmeasycad.htm

Dave

I think the answer has to be that I have tried lots of them and prefer this one Hi!.  Actually I solved the Gerber problem after I posted the question, so I am ok now thanks.    John.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Phil 
  To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 5:01 PM
  Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Free PCB layout program.



  there are many free PCB layout program that use english (I assume
  that's one of your languages), why not use one of them? 

  --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "hyundaigrey" <moonshadow@n...>
  wrote:
  > 
  > Hi All,
  >         I have found a great PCB layout program which can be 
  > downloaded free from ...
  > 
  > http://b.urbani.free.fr
  > 
  > One small snag is that it is in French, not one of my languages,  
  > but in the main is very easy to understand. It can output both 
  > Gerber RS-274X and Excellon format 2 drill files. My problem is as 
  > follows. When I save a layout as a drill file, a panel pops up 
  > telling me that the file has been created. However I don't know 
  > where it saves it and also do not know what the file type is. Does 
  > anyone have the answer to this please ?
  > 
  > John.





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for the reply Dave. I have just solved the Gerber problem so everything is OK now.  I needed to see the structure of the Gerber file to work out what format flavour was being used. I want to use the gerber file to drive a home brewed NC drilling machine. Thanks again .... John

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Dave 
  To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 6:44 PM
  Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Free PCB layout program.




  --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
  > 
  > there are many free PCB layout program that use english (I assume
  > that's one of your languages), why not use one of them? 
  > 

  I really like the Protel Easytrax program:

  http://www.protel.com/downloads/
  http://www.xs4all.nl/~pa0nhc/ibmeasycad.htm

  Dave









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  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs 


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The Ivex Design International web site is offering "fire sale" deals
on its software, indicating that it has ceased normal business
operations as of 9/30/04. Orders are still being taken for the items
listed.

Dick Ballard
ballardr@...

Hi John,

go to the yahoo list on the web and under the links section, add the 
link and some comments.

We get people asking every couple months what is available and such.

Dave


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "John Kent" <moonshadow@n...> 
wrote:
> Thanks for the reply Dave. I have just solved the Gerber problem so 
everything is OK now.  I needed to see the structure of the Gerber 
file to work out what format flavour was being used. I want to use 
the gerber file to drive a home brewed NC drilling machine. Thanks 
again .... John
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Dave 
>   To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 6:44 PM
>   Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Free PCB layout program.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> 
wrote:
>   > 
>   > there are many free PCB layout program that use english (I 
assume
>   > that's one of your languages), why not use one of them? 
>   > 
> 
>   I really like the Protel Easytrax program:
> 
>   http://www.protel.com/downloads/
>   http://www.xs4all.nl/~pa0nhc/ibmeasycad.htm
> 
>   Dave
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and 
files:
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs 
> 
> 
>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
>          
>         Get unlimited calls to
> 
>         U.S./Canada
>        
>        
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
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>   Yahoo! Groups Links
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>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/
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>       
>     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
Service. 

> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Dick Ballard <ballardr@a...> wrote:
> The Ivex Design International web site is offering "fire sale" deals
> on its software, indicating that it has ceased normal business
> operations as of 9/30/04.
<snip>

Why am I not suprised...

Does anyone use sodium persulfate as etchant?
I'm makeing my first pcb using toner transfer from kodak-paper. But the 
etchant doesn't work very well.
I use about 0,8 dl etchant for 4 dl of water@ca 50° in a plastic bowl 
that and moved stirred it pretty much the first hour... The pcb is 
about 4x3 cm big.
Now it has been in the etchant all night and only about 1/8 of the 
board has etched.
Maybe the kodak-paper left something on the surface? I did iron it 
about 60 seconds on both sides. To long?

/P.O.

>From: "P.O." <ohlson@...>
>Reply-To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Slow etching, Sodium Persulfate?
>Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 13:27:14 +0100
>
>
>
>Does anyone use sodium persulfate as etchant?
>I'm makeing my first pcb using toner transfer from kodak-paper. But the
>etchant doesn't work very well.
>I use about 0,8 dl etchant for 4 dl of water@ca 50\ufffd in a plastic bowl
>that and moved stirred it pretty much the first hour... The pcb is
>about 4x3 cm big.
>Now it has been in the etchant all night and only about 1/8 of the
>board has etched.
>Maybe the kodak-paper left something on the surface? I did iron it
>about 60 seconds on both sides. To long?


When I've used ammonium persulpate it had to be warm to work properly.

Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM Tel: +44 1424 423947
Email: aqzf13 at dsl dot pipex dot com
WWW: http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller

P.O. wrote:
> 
> Does anyone use sodium persulfate as etchant?
> I'm makeing my first pcb using toner transfer from kodak-paper. But the 
> etchant doesn't work very well.
> I use about 0,8 dl etchant for 4 dl of water@ca 50\ufffd in a plastic bowl 
> that and moved stirred it pretty much the first hour... The pcb is 
> about 4x3 cm big.
> Now it has been in the etchant all night and only about 1/8 of the 
> board has etched.
> Maybe the kodak-paper left something on the surface? I did iron it 
> about 60 seconds on both sides. To long?
> 

0.8 dl  would be 0.8 deciliters =  0.08 liters = 80 milliliters
Is that correct ?

Normal makeup concentration of ammonium persulfate etchant is 100 to 200 
g/L and should be heated > 35\ufffdC for reasonable etching times. A fresh 
solution at 65\ufffdC in a bubble etching tank will etch 36um thick foil PCB 
material around 5 to 8 minutes. Sodium persulfate and ammonium 
persulfate are practically interchangeable.

If the copper looses it's shine in first 30 seconds then the etchant is 
working. Is that happening ?

Sodium persulfate is a rather slow etchant, but it produces a very clean surface.  We used to use it as the basis for a chemical clean line prior to laminating photo resist.  

I assume you put in 5 ot 10% sulfuric acid in the etch.  No acid, no etch.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: P.O. 
  To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 7:27 AM
  Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Slow etching, Sodium Persulfate?



  Does anyone use sodium persulfate as etchant?
  I'm makeing my first pcb using toner transfer from kodak-paper. But the 
  etchant doesn't work very well.
  I use about 0,8 dl etchant for 4 dl of water@ca 50° in a plastic bowl 
  that and moved stirred it pretty much the first hour... The pcb is 
  about 4x3 cm big.
  Now it has been in the etchant all night and only about 1/8 of the 
  board has etched.
  Maybe the kodak-paper left something on the surface? I did iron it 
  about 60 seconds on both sides. To long?

  /P.O.





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  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs 


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I suspect that the water you used was not hot enough . I had the same 
problem recently - I tried hot water out of the tap but it would not 
etch. so I then used boiling water in the right quantity with the sp and 
had no problem with etching. The board etched in about 5 mins

Regards

Tony Magon

Sydney Australia

P.O. wrote:

>
> Does anyone use sodium persulfate as etchant?
> I'm makeing my first pcb using toner transfer from kodak-paper. But the
> etchant doesn't work very well.
> I use about 0,8 dl etchant for 4 dl of water@ca 50° in a plastic bowl
> that and moved stirred it pretty much the first hour... The pcb is
> about 4x3 cm big.
> Now it has been in the etchant all night and only about 1/8 of the
> board has etched.
> Maybe the kodak-paper left something on the surface? I did iron it
> about 60 seconds on both sides. To long?
>
> /P.O.
>
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
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>
>
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>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I Just Installed that program and It looks Great.
But I get the Occassional LOCKUP when I move a Pad out of Area. Do 
you get that problem?

I also still need to decipher the French.

If you have any Advice, Email me direct at chemelec@...
But you MUST put the word "Electronic" in the "Subject Line" or it 
goes directly to my Junk Mail.

Take care....Gary

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "hyundaigrey" <moonshadow@n...> 
wrote:

> 
> Hi All,
>         I have found a great PCB layout program which can be 
> downloaded free from ...
> 
> http://b.urbani.free.fr
> 
> One small snag is that it is in French, not one of my languages,  
> but in the main is very easy to understand. It can output both 
> Gerber RS-274X and Excellon format 2 drill files. My problem is as 
> follows. When I save a layout as a drill file, a panel pops up 
> telling me that the file has been created. However I don't know 
> where it saves it and also do not know what the file type is. Does 
> anyone have the answer to this please ?
> 
> John.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "chemelec" <chemelec@h...> wrote:
> 
> 
> I Just Installed that program and It looks Great.
> But I get the Occassional LOCKUP when I move a Pad out of Area. Do 
> you get that problem?
> 
> I also still need to decipher the French.
> 
> If you have any Advice, Email me direct at chemelec@h...
> But you MUST put the word "Electronic" in the "Subject Line" or it 
> goes directly to my Junk Mail.

Please keep discussion on the list. It's kind of arrogant to expect
others to help just you and no one else, if you can't be bothered to
come back to the list to read the answers.

It also serves as a reality check. How will you know if someone is
answering with BS? If it is on the list, others who know will speak
up. I recall early on before Yahoogroups absorbed OneList, YahooClubs,
and eGroups, there was one person who (it seems) was on every
electronics list and felt a need to answer -every- question.
Unfortunately his knowledge level was not up to the task, although he
would answer with great certainty. Sometimes his answers were
dangerously wrong.

Steve Greenfield

Hi  Chaps. As requested replying via the list. No I haven't had any hang-ups at all, most of my problems came from an inability to speak French. However  it is worth running the help file through an Internet automatic translation site. There are a few things that the help file do not mention. I solved the problem about the Gerber and Excellon files, they ended up in the Main TCI folder. Everytime I have wanted to do something within this program, I have eventually found it will do it. For example wanted to set the snap to grid up for SOT footprints. It's all there, it was just that I couldn't understand the instructions. I particularly like the dead easy way of creating your own components.
          Mr. Urbani does ask if people creating their own library of components would contribute them towards the library. However when I tried to send mine, his mail box was overloaded and I couldn't contact him.  It is a pity there isn't an English version. I am wondering if it is written in VB, if it is perhaps someone could translate the Text ?. 
          I also tried the SDS schematic program but in the end I preferred Tiny CAD, because I liked the printout better. TCI is excellent bit of software and absolutely free !. 

John

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Steve 
  To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 8:34 PM
  Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Free PCB layout program.



  --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "chemelec" <chemelec@h...> wrote:
  > 
  > 
  > I Just Installed that program and It looks Great.
  > But I get the Occassional LOCKUP when I move a Pad out of Area. Do 
  > you get that problem?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Please remember I do not speak French, but here is what I think it says ...

Fichier                    Files
Edition                    Edit
Affichage                Setup
Taille pstilles           Pad size
Taille Trous             Hole Size
Taille Pistes            Track width
Couche                   Layer
Nouveau                  New
Ouvirim                   Load ?
Enregistrer              Save
Enregistrer Sous     Save as .....
Impression              Print
Quitter                    End
Annuler Supprimer   Back
Couper                   Delete ?
Copier                    Copy
Coller                     Paste
Suprimer                ?
Changement de Couche    Change layers ?. 
Grille                               Use Grid
Rester sur la Grille           Snap to grid
Pas de la Grille                Set grid size
Couche composants        Show tracks 
Couche Soudures            Show Pads
Couche Seriegraphie       Show artwork
Empriente                       component

Hope this helps ..... JK



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorry forgot to mention you can make up your own components for the library, Just do it the same as you would a normal PCB layout (pads, tracks and artwork) .. then Save as (Enregistrer s0us ...). You can now save your work either as a layout (Circuit Imprime)( *.Tci) or as a component (Empreinte)(*.emp). When you save as a component make sure you save it to the same file that the existing components are in and it will then show up in the Empreinte (component) box, top right of the main screen. By renaming the existing components you can get it to list them in English in the box.   JK.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Using an old version of Nortion Utilities, I was able to convert All 
the Text Headings to English.
I can make it available to anyone that is interested.

All that needs to be done is Replace the origional Tci.exe file with 
mine.

Nothing is changed in the Program or the Authors Credits

************************************************************

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "hyundaigrey" <moonshadow@n...> 
wrote:

> 
> Hi All,
>         I have found a great PCB layout program which can be 
> downloaded free from ...
> 
> http://b.urbani.free.fr
> 
> One small snag is that it is in French, not one of my languages,  
> but in the main is very easy to understand. It can output both 
> Gerber RS-274X and Excellon format 2 drill files. My problem is as 
> follows. When I save a layout as a drill file, a panel pops up 
> telling me that the file has been created. However I don't know 
> where it saves it and also do not know what the file type is. Does 
> anyone have the answer to this please ?
> 
> John.

Hotmail will not allow me to Upload the Tci.exe, but those who email
me will get a link to where they can download this file, As well as 
Instructions to Impliment it.

So Far 3 persons have requested it.
Take Care......Gary

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" <chemelec@h...> wrote:
> 
> Using an old version of Nortion Utilities, I was able to convert 
All 
> the Text Headings to English.
> I can make it available to anyone that is interested.
> 
> All that needs to be done is Replace the origional Tci.exe file 
with 
> mine.
> 
> Nothing is changed in the Program or the Authors Credits
> 
> ************************************************************
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "hyundaigrey" 
<moonshadow@n...> 
> wrote:
> > 
> > Hi All,
> >         I have found a great PCB layout program which can be 
> > downloaded free from ...
> > 
> > http://b.urbani.free.fr
> > 
> > One small snag is that it is in French, not one of my languages,  
> > but in the main is very easy to understand. It can output both 
> > Gerber RS-274X and Excellon format 2 drill files. My problem is 
as 
> > follows. When I save a layout as a drill file, a panel pops up 
> > telling me that the file has been created. However I don't know 
> > where it saves it and also do not know what the file type is. 
Does 

> > anyone have the answer to this please ?
> > 
> > John.

I'm interested.
Thanks,
Cristian
>Using an old version of Nortion Utilities, I was able to convert All
>the Text Headings to English.
>I can make it available to anyone that is interested.


  ----------


---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 10 Nov 2004, at 22:43, Gary wrote:

> Using an old version of Nortion Utilities, I was able to convert All
> the Text Headings to English.
> I can make it available to anyone that is interested.

Another suggestion for the OP.

Save out the file and then use the OS's handy search tool to look for 
all files with the time and date of the saved file. Job done.

-- 

Cheers

Derryck

Gary,
  Thanks for the file! Your modified tci.exe worked like a charm.  
The program seems pretty easy to use. I am working on some simple PIC 
circuits & some of the more complex design programs confuse me.  They 
are actually overkill for what I need to do.  I am finishing a PCB 
mill that I bought on eBay (90% complete now) based on one of John 
Kleinbauer's designs http://www.crankorgan.com/brute.htm  so I should 
have some fun with this to get some circuits ready for the spring 
Hamfest season. 
Thanks again,
Jeff


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" <chemelec@h...> wrote:

> 
> Hotmail will not allow me to Upload the Tci.exe, but those who email
> me will get a link to where they can download this file, As well as 
> Instructions to Impliment it.
> 
> So Far 3 persons have requested it.
> Take Care......Gary
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" <chemelec@h...> wrote:
> > 
> > Using an old version of Nortion Utilities, I was able to convert 
> All 
> > the Text Headings to English.
> > I can make it available to anyone that is interested.
> > 
> > All that needs to be done is Replace the origional Tci.exe file 
> with 
> > mine.
> > 
> > Nothing is changed in the Program or the Authors Credits
> >