Homebrew_PCBs

SOOOOOORRRRRRY, my mistake.
I've tried to attach the file.

Is there any way to automatically convert the 'round' pcb to 'square' one,
to allow to spare FeCl or milling bits.
Cristian

> File : /Rd to Sq BMP.bmp
> Uploaded by : cristianluiza <bip@...>
> Description : Round to Square??
>
>You can access this file at the URL:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/files/Rd%20to%20Sq%20BMP.bmp

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--- Cristian <bip@...> wrote:

> SOOOOOORRRRRRY, my mistake.
> I've tried to attach the file.
>
> Is there any way to automatically convert the
> 'round' pcb to 'square' one,
> to allow to spare FeCl or milling bits.
> Cristian
>
>

You should be able to do so in your cad tool by
changing the library files.

However, if your board was for more than a quick
prototype, and subject to flex, thermal cycles, or was
a high performance design, square pads should
generally be avoided.

Ideally traces should have small fillets when they
connect to pcb connectors. It does help to reduce the
probability of cracked trace4s and intermittents down
the road. Now if your board is in a nicer environment,
its not an issue. One does have to balance this with
DFM, as wicking can create much headaches.

Square pads also can create less than desirable
performance at higher frequencies. It should be no
problem for DC or VLF.

Square pads also due not lend themselves to proper
guarding, as its hard to maintian a consistant
distance. Again more of a performance issue, and for
most it would make little difference.

Ron



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>square pads should
>generally be avoided.
>Square pads also can
>
>Square pads
>
>Ron

Thanks, Ron, but is not about square pads. See, please, the uploaded file.

It is about to reduce the isolation spaces between copper to minimum.
This way, the CNC mechanical etching will use less mill bit and chemical
etching will use less chemicals.

Is like designing a pcb by drawing the isolations instead of drawing pads
and traces.
Cristian

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The square traces work great with PCBoard milling. Less ware on
the milling bit. If you allow the milling bit to put a dot where each
hole goes, the board will be easier to drill out.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Cristian <bip@f...> wrote:
> >square pads should
> >generally be avoided.
> >Square pads also can
> >
> >Square pads
> >
> >Ron
>
> Thanks, Ron, but is not about square pads. See, please, the uploaded
file.
>
> It is about to reduce the isolation spaces between copper to minimum.
> This way, the CNC mechanical etching will use less mill bit and
chemical
> etching will use less chemicals.
>
> Is like designing a pcb by drawing the isolations instead of drawing
pads
> and traces.
> Cristian
>
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On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 17:32:33 -0000, crankorgan <john@...> wrote:

> The square traces work great with PCBoard milling. Less ware on
> the milling bit. If you allow the milling bit to put a dot where each
> hole goes, the board will be easier to drill out.
>

If you allow the cnc machine to drill the board it will be even easier to
drill... ;-)

I've seen these square tracks a few times on "velleman" kits, but it's
some time ago.
I think it looks better than "isolation" milled around round tracks, but i
have
no idea how one could produce it.

ST

Convert your pads to square, set your routing up to
90degree only, and you should get pretty close, but
you may have to tweak trace widths.

Then create a unconnected ground net, lets call it
ugnd If your software doesn't like it, you can use a
1206 resistor to connect the ugnd to gnd, if it needs
to pass DRC, then just don't populate the 1206.

Next pour a poylgon plane with a clearance section
equal to your cutter's diaemeter and connect such
polygon plane to ugnd. Also be sure to set your
software up for leaving dead copper fills. It was a
common technique used up until around 1984 or 85, when
EMC became a regulatory issue.


Ron
--- Cristian <bip@...> wrote:

> >square pads should
> >generally be avoided.
> >Square pads also can
> >
> >Square pads
> >
> >Ron
>
> Thanks, Ron, but is not about square pads. See,
> please, the uploaded file.
>
> It is about to reduce the isolation spaces between
> copper to minimum.
> This way, the CNC mechanical etching will use less
> mill bit and chemical
> etching will use less chemicals.
>
> Is like designing a pcb by drawing the isolations
> instead of drawing pads
> and traces.
> Cristian
>
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>Then create a unconnected ground net, lets call it
>ugnd

Ron,
It seems is about a specific PCB software, and a little bit complicated.
I've done my 'square' example manually, using "Add Polygon"
I'd like to get that automatically.

Let say one can do the job as regularly in its PCB software (as 'round'),
export it as XGerber and transform that export, automatically, into a 'square'.
Preferable XGerber or HPGL 'square' , for future CAM or Photoplot production.

I name them 'round' and 'square' because I don't know other terms to use.
Is not about a round PCB, for sure.
Please correct me, English is not my native language.
Cristian


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> The square traces work great with PCBoard milling. Less ware on
>the milling bit.

This was my original idea. It works for chemicals too.

>If you allow the milling bit to put a dot where each
>hole goes, the board will be easier to drill out.

If you own a milling machine you can drill the PCB with it, for sure.

Cristian

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>
> If you own a milling machine you can drill the PCB with it, for sure.
>

Drilling requires a stiffer machine. Some homemade machines will allow
the bit to walk around. It takes less of a machine to mill than drill.

Cristian,
Are you looking to use a CNC to do milling, or are you looking to
minimize chemical use? The reason I ask is that the algorithm for the
minimizing chemical use is easier to implement than the one for the CNC
milling. If you take the 'round' bmp and erode the white one pixel
width at a time until the minimum width you want (say 2 pixels wide) is
achieved, that will work for chemical etching, but will not optimize for
mechanical. To do that, you have to get into graph theory, minimum
spanning trees, TSP, and the like.
I could probably do the image one for you, if you are interested.
Richard

I tired to make it generic. Most software should
easily do what you want, just the terms may differ.
You might want to check with the user group for your
specific software. I know the concept works with Pads,
Pcad, Orcad PCB, and Protel. The polygon pour
functions are pretty much automatic... you set it up,
and let it route.

I personally avoid tweaks in the gerber file, as it
can be exceedingly error prone, and there is not an
easy way to do any type of DRC (design rule check)
from start to finish.

CadCam gerber editor may allow you to go in, and reset
the aperature lists.... you might be able to create a
macro to do some of the conversion automatically.
However CadCam editor was something like $US5000 and
its way overkill. I wonder if there is an open source
cadcam tool.

No problem with your English at all. I can understand
what you are trying to do, not proble

Ron


--- Cristian <bip@...> wrote:

> >Then create a unconnected ground net, lets call it
> >ugnd
>
>
>
> Ron,
> It seems is about a specific PCB software, and a
> little bit complicated.
> I've done my 'square' example manually, using "Add
> Polygon"
> I'd like to get that automatically.
>
> Let say one can do the job as regularly in its PCB
> software (as 'round'),
> export it as XGerber and transform that export,
> automatically, into a 'square'.
> Preferable XGerber or HPGL 'square' , for future CAM
> or Photoplot production.
>
> I name them 'round' and 'square' because I don't
> know other terms to use.
> Is not about a round PCB, for sure.
> Please correct me, English is not my native
> language.
> Cristian
>
>
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>You might want to check with the user group for your
>specific software. I know the concept works with Pads,
>Pcad, Orcad PCB, and Protel.

Usually I work with EasyPC from Number One and with Sprint Layout from
Abacom (this is good because one can import, transparently, a scanned PCB
layout from a magazine and work over it).
Now I'm testing Target3001 Professional to buy it.
I'll try to find there the "Polygon pour".

>The polygon pour
>functions are pretty much automatic... you set it up,
>and let it route.



>I personally avoid tweaks in the gerber file, as it
>can be exceedingly error prone, and there is not an
>easy way to do any type of DRC (design rule check)
>from start to finish.

you might be right.



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How VERY true...

If there is machine flex as the bit drills, AND/OR if the drill speed
is too slow, you break drills. (speed here means BOTH RPM and
downward rate)

If you're doing multilayer, then epoxy smear becomes a real concern.
(Hey we've got Markus's and Jeremy's examples for the THP, and I'm
working to provide the drill <G>)

Ballendo

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "crankorgan" <john@k...> wrote:
>
> >
> > If you own a milling machine you can drill the PCB with it, for
sure.
> >
> Drilling requires a stiffer machine. Some homemade machines will
allow
> the bit to walk around. It takes less of a machine to mill than
drill.

Does this mean, Ballendo, that your dilling machine will be able to
mill the PCBs?

By the way, John mentioned on his site that you are an owner of this
group and I will start attending here more often. Mike


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "ballendo" <ballendo@y...>
wrote:

> How VERY true...
>
> If there is machine flex as the bit drills, AND/OR if the drill

speed

> is too slow, you break drills. (speed here means BOTH RPM and
> downward rate)
>
> If you're doing multilayer, then epoxy smear becomes a real

concern.

> (Hey we've got Markus's and Jeremy's examples for the THP, and I'm
> working to provide the drill <G>)
>
> Ballendo
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "crankorgan" <john@k...>

wrote:

> >
> > >
> > > If you own a milling machine you can drill the PCB with it, for
> sure.
> > >
> > Drilling requires a stiffer machine. Some homemade machines

will

> allow
> > the bit to walk around. It takes less of a machine to mill than
> drill.

Is that about Round to Square?
Cristian

At 14:07 29/08/04, you wrote:

>Does this mean, Ballendo, that your dilling machine will be able to
>mill the PCBs?
>
>By the way, John mentioned on his site that you are an owner of this
>group and I will start attending here more often. Mike
>
>
>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "ballendo" <ballendo@y...>
>wrote:
> > How VERY true...
> >
> > If there is machine flex as the bit drills, AND/OR if the drill
>speed
> > is too slow, you break drills. (speed here means BOTH RPM and
> > downward rate)
> >
> > If you're doing multilayer, then epoxy smear becomes a real
>concern.
> > (Hey we've got Markus's and Jeremy's examples for the THP, and I'm
> > working to provide the drill <G>)
> >
> > Ballendo
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "crankorgan" <john@k...>
>wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > If you own a milling machine you can drill the PCB with it, for
> > sure.
> > > >
> > > Drilling requires a stiffer machine. Some homemade machines
>will
> > allow
> > > the bit to walk around. It takes less of a machine to mill than
> > drill.
>
>
>
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Ron,
> It seems is about a specific PCB software, and a little bit

complicated.

> I've done my 'square' example manually, using "Add Polygon"
> I'd like to get that automatically.
>
> Let say one can do the job as regularly in its PCB software

(as 'round'),

> export it as XGerber and transform that export, automatically, into

a 'square'.

> Preferable XGerber or HPGL 'square' , for future CAM or Photoplot

production.

>

If you make pads that are 80 mill square, then two pads of an IC have
a 20 mill seperation, or one pass on each pad for isolation milling.

Set your line widths to 80 mill and then all your connectors are
square and require only one pass as well.

WinQCAD allows you to set your line widths as you like, then in
handRoute, select manually change line widhts. then just a single
mouse click on each line segment (lots of clicking) and you can run
across the board changing line widths as needed.

Another way might be more automated.

If you can isolation route your board on one layer, then select that
laywer and isolation route that and just keep going until your lines
are where you want.

Of course this means you have to select lines from different layers.

sorry, don't know an automated way.


Dave

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc" <eemikez@c...> wrote:

>Does this mean, Ballendo, that your drilling machine will be able to
>mill the PCBs?

Yes.

>By the way, John mentioned on his site that you are an owner of this
>group and I will start attending here more often. Mike

I think he was rteferring to the DIY-CNC yahoo group. I am only a
member here. Steve (Alienrelics) is the listowner.

> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "ballendo" <ballendo@y...>
> wrote:
> > How VERY true...
> >
> > If there is machine flex as the bit drills, AND/OR if the drill
> speed
> > is too slow, you break drills. (speed here means BOTH RPM and
> > downward rate)
> >
> > If you're doing multilayer, then epoxy smear becomes a real
> concern.
> > (Hey we've got Markus's and Jeremy's examples for the THP, and

I'm

> > working to provide the drill <G>)
> >
> > Ballendo
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "crankorgan" <john@k...>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > If you own a milling machine you can drill the PCB with it,

for

> > sure.
> > > >
> > > Drilling requires a stiffer machine. Some homemade machines
> will
> > allow
> > > the bit to walk around. It takes less of a machine to mill than
> > drill.

I was wondering where my message went...


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "ballendo" <ballendo@y...>
wrote:

> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc" <eemikez@c...>

wrote:

> >Does this mean, Ballendo, that your drilling machine will be able

to

> >mill the PCBs?
>
> Yes.
>
> >By the way, John mentioned on his site that you are an owner of

this

> >group and I will start attending here more often. Mike
>
> I think he was rteferring to the DIY-CNC yahoo group. I am only a
> member here. Steve (Alienrelics) is the listowner.
>
>