hot glue gun glue
2004-08-05 by Richard Mustakos
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2004-08-05 by Richard Mustakos
2004-08-05 by Stefan Trethan
> Hi,Silicone glue is OK, i didn't try hot glue but i'm 99% sure it is ok too.
> I'm working on a etching tank for CuCl (HCl + H2O2), and before I put
> any holes in it, I want to know if I can seal it correctly. Does anyone
> know if CuCl eats hot glue gun glues? If that is not a proper sealant,
> does anyone have any ideas?
> Thanks
> Richard
>
2004-08-09 by mikezcnc
2004-08-09 by Stefan Trethan
> You don't need a tank. It's not needed nor required.disagreed.
> Save your energy on making the boards. Mike
>
2004-08-09 by Phil
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc" <eemikez@c...> wrote:
> You don't need a tank. It's not needed nor required.
> Save your energy on making the boards. Mike
2004-08-09 by ballendo
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> hmmm, what do you use to contain your etchant when you are etching
> at board?
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc" <eemikez@c...>
wrote:
> > You don't need a tank. It's not needed nor required.
> > Save your energy on making the boards. Mike
2004-08-09 by ballendo
> Hello,wrote:
>
> Ziplock sandwich bags.
>
> (Doubled inside of freezer ziplock bags for safety/redundancy<G>)
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Ballendo
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...>
> > hmmm, what do you use to contain your etchant when you areetching
> > at board?
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc" <eemikez@c...>
> wrote:
> > > You don't need a tank. It's not needed nor required.
> > > Save your energy on making the boards. Mike
2004-08-09 by Phil
> Hello,
>
> Forgot to add: When done, just clip a corner with scissors and the
> bag contents can be funneled into a disposal or storage container.
>
> And the bag(s) can be put into hot water to speed up the etching...
>
> Ballendo
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "ballendo" <ballendo@y...>
> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > Ziplock sandwich bags.
> >
> > (Doubled inside of freezer ziplock bags for safety/redundancy<G>)
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> >
> > Ballendo
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...>
> wrote:
> > > hmmm, what do you use to contain your etchant when you are
> etching
> > > at board?
> > >
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc" <eemikez@c...>
> > wrote:
> > > > You don't need a tank. It's not needed nor required.
> > > > Save your energy on making the boards. Mike
2004-08-09 by Stefan Trethan
> that's not a bad idea at all for etching though I'd be very carefulPhil, the trick is to make the container in a way so that almost
> even with double bagging. Its a good, cheap way to do quick one-off
> etches. Even allows for aggitation though I'd be reluctant to handle
> a full bag.
>
> Still, I prefer the tank I made which has a bubbler and heater.
> Yeah, its more "stuff" and requires cleaning but I get very
> consistant, even etching and can do multiple boards at once. Pouring
> etchant back into the storage container is very precise. I'll stick
> with it.
>
2004-08-09 by Phil
> On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 14:23:55 -0000, Phil <phil1960us@y...> wrote:careful
>
> > that's not a bad idea at all for etching though I'd be very
> > even with double bagging. Its a good, cheap way to do quick one-off
> > etches. Even allows for aggitation though I'd be reluctant tohandle
> > a full bag.Pouring
> >
> > Still, I prefer the tank I made which has a bubbler and heater.
> > Yeah, its more "stuff" and requires cleaning but I get very
> > consistant, even etching and can do multiple boards at once.
> > etchant back into the storage container is very precise. I'llstick
> > with it.than
> >
>
> Phil, the trick is to make the container in a way so that almost
> no cleaning and no pouring back for storage is required.
> (Though i doubt emptying and discarding the bags is less hassle
> cleaningboards
> your container)
> I have a glass tank for CuCl, which holds one liter and can do
> approx. 30cmx20cm.lid),
> I keep the etchant in all the time (silicone adhesive seal for the
> if i need a board i lift the lid, clamp the board in the holder,put it
> back in, etch.board
>
> (note: not touching any "wet" internal parts while doing that, the
> clamp is "remote controlled" through the lid and operated by thethumb of
> the hand holding the lid while the otherwater
> hand positions the pcb)
>
> When it is ready i lift it out by the handle, position it over the
> container, and pushand in
> the "remote control" for the clamp mechanism. the PCB is released
> the water.carry
>
> You see, not a drop of etchant is wasted because ONLY the PCB can
> any etchant on it's surfacecleaned.
> and is washed. the other parts never touch anything, and never get
> It is also sealed off enough so that closeby tools won't corrode.so far.
> The whole tank sits in a plastic container but there were no leaks
> The nice thing is you can clearly see both sides while in theetchant, no
> need to pull it outdensity
> to see if it is completed. I have a hydrometer in there to see the
> (CuCl), andit up
> also a electrolysis setup with carbon electrodes, but i didn't fire
> yet 'cause iheater
> think it isn't really useful. I could easily add a bubbler and
> because the last 5cmhose, a
> on both ends of the lid are separated and can be used to carry a
> heater, or like itpossible
> is now carbon electrodes. I don't want a bubble because of the
> fumes.geared
> However, speeding it up is easy by adding mechanical agitation. A
> motorthat) and
> "sways" the holder from side to side (the silicone seal allows
> doeslid/holder
> speed up the process a lot.
>
> Best part: building was basically free, i had the glass and the
> is madeif you
> of old printer chassis. The slicone adhesive is the only cost.
>
> I can only suggest to go on and build one, it is a big difference
> have to prepareopen
> your "bowl" and storage bottle, handle dangerous chemicals, or just
> the lid and put
> it in there without getting your hands dirty.
>
> ST
2004-08-09 by Stefan Trethan
> I totally agree that the best solution is an etch AND storage tank,What's AP? Acrylic?
> all in one.
>
> Unfortunately, m tank is plastic. I (currently) use AP. I have
> heard anecdotal evidence that it eats plastic so I dont want to store
> it in the tank. I've kept my eye out for a glass tank but they are
> all too big (4 L/1 G) and I want to only have 1 L of etchant for
> safety sake. I guess at some point I'll build a glass one if I dont
> find a suitable container.
2004-08-09 by Phil
> On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 04:16:24 -0000, mikezcnc <eemikez@c...> wrote:wanting to
>
> > You don't need a tank. It's not needed nor required.
> > Save your energy on making the boards. Mike
> >
>
> disagreed.
> A proper tank where the etchant can stay for storage,
> perhaps with a hydrometer floating if you like, and with
> a proper lid with PCB holder is well worth the effort.
>
> I know i'm not supposed to say such things, but i find it very rude
> if someone answers "don't do it you don't need it" to someone
> build already.not
> I mean you could say it is not really required and what you use but
> just "stop it".close
>
> well, if you need no tank Mike it's fine for you. I did need one
> and i'm glad i built one. My first was a mistake but the second is
> to perfect.
>
> ST
2004-08-09 by mikezcnc
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> hmmm, what do you use to contain your etchant when you are etching
> at board?
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc" <eemikez@c...>
wrote:
> > You don't need a tank. It's not needed nor required.
> > Save your energy on making the boards. Mike
2004-08-09 by mikezcnc
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> that's not a bad idea at all for etching though I'd be very careful
> even with double bagging. Its a good, cheap way to do quick one-
off
> etches. Even allows for aggitation though I'd be reluctant to
handle
> a full bag.
>
> Still, I prefer the tank I made which has a bubbler and heater.
> Yeah, its more "stuff" and requires cleaning but I get very
> consistant, even etching and can do multiple boards at once.
Pouring
> etchant back into the storage container is very precise. I'll
stick
> with it.
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "ballendo" <ballendo@y...>
> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > Forgot to add: When done, just clip a corner with scissors and
the
> > bag contents can be funneled into a disposal or storage container.
> >
> > And the bag(s) can be put into hot water to speed up the
etching...
> >
> > Ballendo
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "ballendo" <ballendo@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > Ziplock sandwich bags.
> > >
> > > (Doubled inside of freezer ziplock bags for
safety/redundancy<G>)
> > >
> > > Hope this helps,
> > >
> > > Ballendo
> > >
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > > hmmm, what do you use to contain your etchant when you are
> > etching
> > > > at board?
> > > >
> > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc"
<eemikez@c...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > You don't need a tank. It's not needed nor required.
> > > > > Save your energy on making the boards. Mike
2004-08-09 by Phil
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc" <eemikez@c...> wrote:
> Phil, not only you don't need the tank, but you don't need a
bubbler
> (old thinking) not a heater, hehehe. Life can be simple but only
for
> the right person. Mike
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...>
wrote:
> > that's not a bad idea at all for etching though I'd be very
careful
> > even with double bagging. Its a good, cheap way to do quick one-
> off
> > etches. Even allows for aggitation though I'd be reluctant to
> handle
> > a full bag.
> >
> > Still, I prefer the tank I made which has a bubbler and heater.
> > Yeah, its more "stuff" and requires cleaning but I get very
> > consistant, even etching and can do multiple boards at once.
> Pouring
> > etchant back into the storage container is very precise. I'll
> stick
> > with it.
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "ballendo" <ballendo@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > Forgot to add: When done, just clip a corner with scissors and
> the
> > > bag contents can be funneled into a disposal or storage
container.
> > >
> > > And the bag(s) can be put into hot water to speed up the
> etching...
> > >
> > > Ballendo
> > >
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "ballendo"
<ballendo@y...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > Ziplock sandwich bags.
> > > >
> > > > (Doubled inside of freezer ziplock bags for
> safety/redundancy<G>)
> > > >
> > > > Hope this helps,
> > > >
> > > > Ballendo
> > > >
> > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil"
<phil1960us@y...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > hmmm, what do you use to contain your etchant when you are
> > > etching
> > > > > at board?
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc"
> <eemikez@c...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > You don't need a tank. It's not needed nor required.
> > > > > > Save your energy on making the boards. Mike
2004-08-09 by Phil
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc" <eemikez@c...> wrote:
> a cuvette of a suitable size. Mike
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...>
wrote:
> > hmmm, what do you use to contain your etchant when you are
etching
> > at board?
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc" <eemikez@c...>
> wrote:
> > > You don't need a tank. It's not needed nor required.
> > > Save your energy on making the boards. Mike
2004-08-09 by JanRwl@AOL.COM
2004-08-09 by mikezcnc
2004-08-09 by mikezcnc
2004-08-09 by Phil
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc" <eemikez@c...> wrote:
> Dude?! Have a nice day. Mike
2004-08-09 by mikezcnc
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> I guess your approach to this group is to make provocative
statements
> but not actually contribute. IMNSHO, a non-response would be a
more
> worthwhile contribution. Have a nice day, too.
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc" <eemikez@c...>
wrote:
> > Dude?! Have a nice day. Mike
2004-08-09 by Phil
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc" <eemikez@c...> wrote:
> I see the tone of you answers got much improved and this is a good
> sign. In the future do not learn from the wrong people to attack
> others and please refrain from personal remarks. Just stick to teh
> technical questions and there won't be any problems. Mike
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...>
wrote:
> > I guess your approach to this group is to make provocative
> statements
> > but not actually contribute. IMNSHO, a non-response would be a
> more
> > worthwhile contribution. Have a nice day, too.
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc" <eemikez@c...>
> wrote:
> > > Dude?! Have a nice day. Mike
2004-08-10 by Phil
> On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 16:53:25 -0000, Phil <phil1960us@y...> wrote:tank,
>
> > I totally agree that the best solution is an etch AND storage
> > all in one.store
> >
> > Unfortunately, m tank is plastic. I (currently) use AP. I have
> > heard anecdotal evidence that it eats plastic so I dont want to
> > it in the tank. I've kept my eye out for a glass tank but theyare
> > all too big (4 L/1 G) and I want to only have 1 L of etchant fordont
> > safety sake. I guess at some point I'll build a glass one if I
> > find a suitable container.bottle
>
> What's AP? Acrylic?
> I used to store the CuCl in a PP (poly-propylene) bottle.
> It did form odd crystals on the outside so i changed to a glass
> after a few years.on the
> But it didn't seem the bottle was damaged.
> My HCl is in a PE (poly-ethylene) bottle, and it also has crystals
> outside.touching
> Also the plastic itself seems slightly damaged (after 5 years...).
> I put another cut-off bottle as a sleeve over it (to keep me from
> the crystalsdefinitely
> and to prevent leakage should it fail), next time i buy HCl i
> don't haveknows...
> them refill this bottle and get a new one instead.
>
> I would not worry about a plastic tank for a few years, but who
> I have a plastic lid (printers use to be made of ABS) and a pieceof
> rubber is
> part of the clamp, both seems unaffected so far.
>
> ST
2004-08-10 by ballendo
>"Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:Phil,
> Frankly, I think that absolute pronouncements are unnecessary, I
> don't like to see them even from experts (of which i do not believe
> we have here).
2004-08-10 by Phil
> >"Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:believe
> > Frankly, I think that absolute pronouncements are unnecessary, I
> > don't like to see them even from experts (of which i do not
> > we have here).
>
> Phil,
>
> That's a joke, right? Not about the experts per se, but right after
> saying "absolute pronouncements are unnecessary", you make one...
>
> So it must be a joke...
>
> Ballendo
2004-08-10 by Richard Mustakos
>Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 16:44:07 +0200
> From: "Stefan Trethan" <stefan_trethan@...>
>Subject: Re: Another use for baggies was Re: hot glue gun glue
>
>On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 14:23:55 -0000, Phil <phil1960us@...> wrote:
>
>> I don't want a bubble because of the possible
>>fumes.
>
2004-08-10 by Stefan Trethan
> Stefanplease let me know how much faster it is, so i know if i must
> I guess you already have a solution to this, with the mechanical
> agitator,
> but here goes anyway. One of reasons I was asking about the glue is
> because I want to put a bubbler in my etching tank. I got a bubbler from
> a pet store, like everyone else, and I'm eventually going to take it
> apart
> and see it is a diaphragm pump. If it is, I'm going to glue it to the
> side of
> my tank, and recirc fumes into the bubbler. Since no new O2 will get
> in this way, (except when I put the board in) I am only looking at this
> for agitation, not for regeneration.
> Richard
> (a known agitator)
2004-08-11 by Dave Mucha
> enter pile-on mode. I asked the question to draw out thisdiscussion
> to hear why mike thinks a tank is useless. Such statements need toFunny how every long now and again someone comes up with things that
> be followed with a rationale as to why.
2004-08-11 by ballendo
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> I said "I think". That makes it my opinion, not an immutable law
> that I claim exists. But I can certainly see how some one might
read
> it the way you did. Do you disagree with the point?
>
> Doesn't it seem reasonable that he follow his absolute
pronouncements
> with explanations? But he hasn't yet. That's what i was (and still
> am) objecting to.
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "ballendo" <ballendo@y...>
> wrote:
> > >"Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> > > Frankly, I think that absolute pronouncements are unnecessary,
I
> > > don't like to see them even from experts (of which i do not
> believe
> > > we have here).
> >
> > Phil,
> >
> > That's a joke, right? Not about the experts per se, but right
after
> > saying "absolute pronouncements are unnecessary", you make one...
> >
> > So it must be a joke...
> >
> > Ballendo
2004-08-11 by Alexandre Souza
> Funny how every long now and again someone comes up with things thatMaybe we could go back to PCBs? :o)
> they did once and pronounces them to be the 'end all' of the hobby.
2004-08-11 by ballendo
>Alexandre Souza" <alexandre-listas@e...> wrote:No, polychlorinated biphenyls (PCB's) are pretty toxic and there's
>Maybe we could go back to PCBs? :o)
2004-08-11 by mikezcnc
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...>wrote:
> > enter pile-on mode. I asked the question to draw out thisto
> discussion
> > to hear why mike thinks a tank is useless. Such statements need
> > be followed with a rationale as to why.that
>
>
> Funny how every long now and again someone comes up with things
> they did once and pronounces them to be the 'end all' of the hobby.about
>
> Or who reads a brochure of some plans of some future thing and
> proclaims that it will change the market. (if he was talking
> Ballendo's machine I probably would agree)find
>
> Or makes some statement that all scientific and medical evidence
> shows otherwise and when shown the proof, says that YOU need to
> the data to prove his point.out
>
> We also see those who proclaim 'it can't be done' also from people
> who don't know how to do things.
>
> My point of view is that if you think it can't be done, then get
> of the way of those who are doing it !
>
> A philosopher I read said that an expert is the one who can do it.
> so, it you wanna know about something, disregard those who have no
> experience or only spout unfounded opinions and listen to those who
> actually do the thing.
>
> My 2 cents.
>
> Thanks for your indulgence.
>
> Dave