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hot glue gun glue

hot glue gun glue

2004-08-05 by Richard Mustakos

Hi,
I'm working on a etching tank for CuCl (HCl + H2O2), and before I put
any holes in it, I want to know if I can seal it correctly. Does anyone
know if CuCl eats hot glue gun glues? If that is not a proper sealant,
does anyone have any ideas?
Thanks
Richard

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] hot glue gun glue

2004-08-05 by Stefan Trethan

On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:28:47 -0700, Richard Mustakos <rmustakos@...>
wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Hi,
> I'm working on a etching tank for CuCl (HCl + H2O2), and before I put
> any holes in it, I want to know if I can seal it correctly. Does anyone
> know if CuCl eats hot glue gun glues? If that is not a proper sealant,
> does anyone have any ideas?
> Thanks
> Richard
>

Silicone glue is OK, i didn't try hot glue but i'm 99% sure it is ok too.
But the silicone has much better gluing and sealing properties, i use it
with good
results in a glass tank. get it in every DIY store.

ST

Re: hot glue gun glue

2004-08-09 by mikezcnc

You don't need a tank. It's not needed nor required.
Save your energy on making the boards. Mike

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: hot glue gun glue

2004-08-09 by Stefan Trethan

On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 04:16:24 -0000, mikezcnc <eemikez@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text
> You don't need a tank. It's not needed nor required.
> Save your energy on making the boards. Mike
>

disagreed.
A proper tank where the etchant can stay for storage,
perhaps with a hydrometer floating if you like, and with
a proper lid with PCB holder is well worth the effort.

I know i'm not supposed to say such things, but i find it very rude
if someone answers "don't do it you don't need it" to someone wanting to
build already.
I mean you could say it is not really required and what you use but not
just "stop it".

well, if you need no tank Mike it's fine for you. I did need one
and i'm glad i built one. My first was a mistake but the second is close
to perfect.

ST

Re: hot glue gun glue

2004-08-09 by Phil

hmmm, what do you use to contain your etchant when you are etching
at board?

Show quoted textHide quoted text
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc" <eemikez@c...> wrote:
> You don't need a tank. It's not needed nor required.
> Save your energy on making the boards. Mike

Re: hot glue gun glue

2004-08-09 by ballendo

Hello,

Ziplock sandwich bags.

(Doubled inside of freezer ziplock bags for safety/redundancy<G>)

Hope this helps,

Ballendo

Show quoted textHide quoted text
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> hmmm, what do you use to contain your etchant when you are etching
> at board?
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc" <eemikez@c...>
wrote:
> > You don't need a tank. It's not needed nor required.
> > Save your energy on making the boards. Mike

Another use for baggies was Re: hot glue gun glue

2004-08-09 by ballendo

Hello,

Forgot to add: When done, just clip a corner with scissors and the
bag contents can be funneled into a disposal or storage container.

And the bag(s) can be put into hot water to speed up the etching...

Ballendo

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "ballendo" <ballendo@y...>
wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Ziplock sandwich bags.
>
> (Doubled inside of freezer ziplock bags for safety/redundancy<G>)
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Ballendo
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...>
wrote:
> > hmmm, what do you use to contain your etchant when you are
etching
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > at board?
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc" <eemikez@c...>
> wrote:
> > > You don't need a tank. It's not needed nor required.
> > > Save your energy on making the boards. Mike

Another use for baggies was Re: hot glue gun glue

2004-08-09 by Phil

that's not a bad idea at all for etching though I'd be very careful
even with double bagging. Its a good, cheap way to do quick one-off
etches. Even allows for aggitation though I'd be reluctant to handle
a full bag.

Still, I prefer the tank I made which has a bubbler and heater.
Yeah, its more "stuff" and requires cleaning but I get very
consistant, even etching and can do multiple boards at once. Pouring
etchant back into the storage container is very precise. I'll stick
with it.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "ballendo" <ballendo@y...>
wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Hello,
>
> Forgot to add: When done, just clip a corner with scissors and the
> bag contents can be funneled into a disposal or storage container.
>
> And the bag(s) can be put into hot water to speed up the etching...
>
> Ballendo
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "ballendo" <ballendo@y...>
> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > Ziplock sandwich bags.
> >
> > (Doubled inside of freezer ziplock bags for safety/redundancy<G>)
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> >
> > Ballendo
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...>
> wrote:
> > > hmmm, what do you use to contain your etchant when you are
> etching
> > > at board?
> > >
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc" <eemikez@c...>
> > wrote:
> > > > You don't need a tank. It's not needed nor required.
> > > > Save your energy on making the boards. Mike

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Another use for baggies was Re: hot glue gun glue

2004-08-09 by Stefan Trethan

On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 14:23:55 -0000, Phil <phil1960us@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text
> that's not a bad idea at all for etching though I'd be very careful
> even with double bagging. Its a good, cheap way to do quick one-off
> etches. Even allows for aggitation though I'd be reluctant to handle
> a full bag.
>
> Still, I prefer the tank I made which has a bubbler and heater.
> Yeah, its more "stuff" and requires cleaning but I get very
> consistant, even etching and can do multiple boards at once. Pouring
> etchant back into the storage container is very precise. I'll stick
> with it.
>

Phil, the trick is to make the container in a way so that almost
no cleaning and no pouring back for storage is required.
(Though i doubt emptying and discarding the bags is less hassle than
cleaning
your container)
I have a glass tank for CuCl, which holds one liter and can do boards
approx. 30cmx20cm.
I keep the etchant in all the time (silicone adhesive seal for the lid),
if i need a board i lift the lid, clamp the board in the holder, put it
back in, etch.

(note: not touching any "wet" internal parts while doing that, the board
clamp is "remote controlled" through the lid and operated by the thumb of
the hand holding the lid while the other
hand positions the pcb)

When it is ready i lift it out by the handle, position it over the water
container, and push
the "remote control" for the clamp mechanism. the PCB is released and in
the water.

You see, not a drop of etchant is wasted because ONLY the PCB can carry
any etchant on it's surface
and is washed. the other parts never touch anything, and never get cleaned.
It is also sealed off enough so that closeby tools won't corrode.
The whole tank sits in a plastic container but there were no leaks so far.
The nice thing is you can clearly see both sides while in the etchant, no
need to pull it out
to see if it is completed. I have a hydrometer in there to see the density
(CuCl), and
also a electrolysis setup with carbon electrodes, but i didn't fire it up
yet 'cause i
think it isn't really useful. I could easily add a bubbler and heater
because the last 5cm
on both ends of the lid are separated and can be used to carry a hose, a
heater, or like it
is now carbon electrodes. I don't want a bubble because of the possible
fumes.
However, speeding it up is easy by adding mechanical agitation. A geared
motor
"sways" the holder from side to side (the silicone seal allows that) and
does
speed up the process a lot.

Best part: building was basically free, i had the glass and the lid/holder
is made
of old printer chassis. The slicone adhesive is the only cost.

I can only suggest to go on and build one, it is a big difference if you
have to prepare
your "bowl" and storage bottle, handle dangerous chemicals, or just open
the lid and put
it in there without getting your hands dirty.

ST

Another use for baggies was Re: hot glue gun glue

2004-08-09 by Phil

I totally agree that the best solution is an etch AND storage tank,
all in one.

Unfortunately, m tank is plastic. I (currently) use AP. I have
heard anecdotal evidence that it eats plastic so I dont want to store
it in the tank. I've kept my eye out for a glass tank but they are
all too big (4 L/1 G) and I want to only have 1 L of etchant for
safety sake. I guess at some point I'll build a glass one if I dont
find a suitable container.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan"
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 14:23:55 -0000, Phil <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
>
> > that's not a bad idea at all for etching though I'd be very
careful
> > even with double bagging. Its a good, cheap way to do quick one-
off
> > etches. Even allows for aggitation though I'd be reluctant to
handle
> > a full bag.
> >
> > Still, I prefer the tank I made which has a bubbler and heater.
> > Yeah, its more "stuff" and requires cleaning but I get very
> > consistant, even etching and can do multiple boards at once.
Pouring
> > etchant back into the storage container is very precise. I'll
stick
> > with it.
> >
>
> Phil, the trick is to make the container in a way so that almost
> no cleaning and no pouring back for storage is required.
> (Though i doubt emptying and discarding the bags is less hassle
than
> cleaning
> your container)
> I have a glass tank for CuCl, which holds one liter and can do
boards
> approx. 30cmx20cm.
> I keep the etchant in all the time (silicone adhesive seal for the
lid),
> if i need a board i lift the lid, clamp the board in the holder,
put it
> back in, etch.
>
> (note: not touching any "wet" internal parts while doing that, the
board
> clamp is "remote controlled" through the lid and operated by the
thumb of
> the hand holding the lid while the other
> hand positions the pcb)
>
> When it is ready i lift it out by the handle, position it over the
water
> container, and push
> the "remote control" for the clamp mechanism. the PCB is released
and in
> the water.
>
> You see, not a drop of etchant is wasted because ONLY the PCB can
carry
> any etchant on it's surface
> and is washed. the other parts never touch anything, and never get
cleaned.
> It is also sealed off enough so that closeby tools won't corrode.
> The whole tank sits in a plastic container but there were no leaks
so far.
> The nice thing is you can clearly see both sides while in the
etchant, no
> need to pull it out
> to see if it is completed. I have a hydrometer in there to see the
density
> (CuCl), and
> also a electrolysis setup with carbon electrodes, but i didn't fire
it up
> yet 'cause i
> think it isn't really useful. I could easily add a bubbler and
heater
> because the last 5cm
> on both ends of the lid are separated and can be used to carry a
hose, a
> heater, or like it
> is now carbon electrodes. I don't want a bubble because of the
possible
> fumes.
> However, speeding it up is easy by adding mechanical agitation. A
geared
> motor
> "sways" the holder from side to side (the silicone seal allows
that) and
> does
> speed up the process a lot.
>
> Best part: building was basically free, i had the glass and the
lid/holder
> is made
> of old printer chassis. The slicone adhesive is the only cost.
>
> I can only suggest to go on and build one, it is a big difference
if you
> have to prepare
> your "bowl" and storage bottle, handle dangerous chemicals, or just
open
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> the lid and put
> it in there without getting your hands dirty.
>
> ST

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Another use for baggies was Re: hot glue gun glue

2004-08-09 by Stefan Trethan

On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 16:53:25 -0000, Phil <phil1960us@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text
> I totally agree that the best solution is an etch AND storage tank,
> all in one.
>
> Unfortunately, m tank is plastic. I (currently) use AP. I have
> heard anecdotal evidence that it eats plastic so I dont want to store
> it in the tank. I've kept my eye out for a glass tank but they are
> all too big (4 L/1 G) and I want to only have 1 L of etchant for
> safety sake. I guess at some point I'll build a glass one if I dont
> find a suitable container.

What's AP? Acrylic?
I used to store the CuCl in a PP (poly-propylene) bottle.
It did form odd crystals on the outside so i changed to a glass bottle
after a few years.
But it didn't seem the bottle was damaged.
My HCl is in a PE (poly-ethylene) bottle, and it also has crystals on the
outside.
Also the plastic itself seems slightly damaged (after 5 years...).
I put another cut-off bottle as a sleeve over it (to keep me from touching
the crystals
and to prevent leakage should it fail), next time i buy HCl i definitely
don't have
them refill this bottle and get a new one instead.

I would not worry about a plastic tank for a few years, but who knows...
I have a plastic lid (printers use to be made of ABS) and a piece of
rubber is
part of the clamp, both seems unaffected so far.

ST

Re: hot glue gun glue

2004-08-09 by Phil

enter pile-on mode. I asked the question to draw out this discussion
to hear why mike thinks a tank is useless. Such statements need to
be followed with a rationale as to why.

Frankly, I think that absolute pronouncements are unnecessary, I
don't like to see them even from experts (of which i do not believe
we have here).

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan"
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 04:16:24 -0000, mikezcnc <eemikez@c...> wrote:
>
> > You don't need a tank. It's not needed nor required.
> > Save your energy on making the boards. Mike
> >
>
> disagreed.
> A proper tank where the etchant can stay for storage,
> perhaps with a hydrometer floating if you like, and with
> a proper lid with PCB holder is well worth the effort.
>
> I know i'm not supposed to say such things, but i find it very rude
> if someone answers "don't do it you don't need it" to someone
wanting to
> build already.
> I mean you could say it is not really required and what you use but
not
> just "stop it".
>
> well, if you need no tank Mike it's fine for you. I did need one
> and i'm glad i built one. My first was a mistake but the second is
close
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> to perfect.
>
> ST

Re: hot glue gun glue

2004-08-09 by mikezcnc

a cuvette of a suitable size. Mike

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> hmmm, what do you use to contain your etchant when you are etching
> at board?
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc" <eemikez@c...>
wrote:
> > You don't need a tank. It's not needed nor required.
> > Save your energy on making the boards. Mike

Another use for baggies was Re: hot glue gun glue

2004-08-09 by mikezcnc

Phil, not only you don't need the tank, but you don't need a bubbler
(old thinking) not a heater, hehehe. Life can be simple but only for
the right person. Mike


Show quoted textHide quoted text
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> that's not a bad idea at all for etching though I'd be very careful
> even with double bagging. Its a good, cheap way to do quick one-
off
> etches. Even allows for aggitation though I'd be reluctant to
handle
> a full bag.
>
> Still, I prefer the tank I made which has a bubbler and heater.
> Yeah, its more "stuff" and requires cleaning but I get very
> consistant, even etching and can do multiple boards at once.
Pouring
> etchant back into the storage container is very precise. I'll
stick
> with it.
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "ballendo" <ballendo@y...>
> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > Forgot to add: When done, just clip a corner with scissors and
the
> > bag contents can be funneled into a disposal or storage container.
> >
> > And the bag(s) can be put into hot water to speed up the
etching...
> >
> > Ballendo
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "ballendo" <ballendo@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > Ziplock sandwich bags.
> > >
> > > (Doubled inside of freezer ziplock bags for
safety/redundancy<G>)
> > >
> > > Hope this helps,
> > >
> > > Ballendo
> > >
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > > hmmm, what do you use to contain your etchant when you are
> > etching
> > > > at board?
> > > >
> > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc"
<eemikez@c...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > You don't need a tank. It's not needed nor required.
> > > > > Save your energy on making the boards. Mike

Another use for baggies was Re: hot glue gun glue

2004-08-09 by Phil

dude, instead of making flat statements with zero backup data or
rationale, please explain why. propose alternate solutions. what
would you have me do? cup my hands to hold the etchant? build your
case. prove your expertise. describe experiments you have done and
the results. Show some examples of boards you have done. If you are
just quoting some one else's work, give a reference/pointer/url/...

I can only speak for myself but I don't see a lot of credibility so
far and mere repetition of unsubstantiated opinion will not increase
it.


Show quoted textHide quoted text
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc" <eemikez@c...> wrote:
> Phil, not only you don't need the tank, but you don't need a
bubbler
> (old thinking) not a heater, hehehe. Life can be simple but only
for
> the right person. Mike
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...>
wrote:
> > that's not a bad idea at all for etching though I'd be very
careful
> > even with double bagging. Its a good, cheap way to do quick one-
> off
> > etches. Even allows for aggitation though I'd be reluctant to
> handle
> > a full bag.
> >
> > Still, I prefer the tank I made which has a bubbler and heater.
> > Yeah, its more "stuff" and requires cleaning but I get very
> > consistant, even etching and can do multiple boards at once.
> Pouring
> > etchant back into the storage container is very precise. I'll
> stick
> > with it.
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "ballendo" <ballendo@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > Forgot to add: When done, just clip a corner with scissors and
> the
> > > bag contents can be funneled into a disposal or storage
container.
> > >
> > > And the bag(s) can be put into hot water to speed up the
> etching...
> > >
> > > Ballendo
> > >
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "ballendo"
<ballendo@y...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > Ziplock sandwich bags.
> > > >
> > > > (Doubled inside of freezer ziplock bags for
> safety/redundancy<G>)
> > > >
> > > > Hope this helps,
> > > >
> > > > Ballendo
> > > >
> > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil"
<phil1960us@y...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > hmmm, what do you use to contain your etchant when you are
> > > etching
> > > > > at board?
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc"
> <eemikez@c...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > You don't need a tank. It's not needed nor required.
> > > > > > Save your energy on making the boards. Mike

Re: hot glue gun glue

2004-08-09 by Phil

Pointer to product? Place to purchase?

The only ones I could fine hold a max of 35 mL. What size boards are
you making?

Oh, yeah, aren't these just tanks with a fancy name and fancy price?

Phil

Show quoted textHide quoted text
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc" <eemikez@c...> wrote:
> a cuvette of a suitable size. Mike
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...>
wrote:
> > hmmm, what do you use to contain your etchant when you are
etching
> > at board?
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc" <eemikez@c...>
> wrote:
> > > You don't need a tank. It's not needed nor required.
> > > Save your energy on making the boards. Mike

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: hot glue gun glue

2004-08-09 by JanRwl@AOL.COM

In a message dated 8/9/2004 2:05:05 AM Central Standard Time,
phil1960us@... writes:
what do you use to contain your etchant when you are etching
at board?
There are myriad trays, etc., of glass and PVC for kitchen-tasks at Walmart!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Another use for baggies was Re: hot glue gun glue

2004-08-09 by Phil

I guess your approach to this group is to make provocative statements
but not actually contribute. IMNSHO, a non-response would be a more
worthwhile contribution. Have a nice day, too.

Show quoted textHide quoted text
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc" <eemikez@c...> wrote:
> Dude?! Have a nice day. Mike

Another use for baggies was Re: hot glue gun glue

2004-08-09 by mikezcnc

I see the tone of you answers got much improved and this is a good
sign. In the future do not learn from the wrong people to attack
others and please refrain from personal remarks. Just stick to teh
technical questions and there won't be any problems. Mike

Show quoted textHide quoted text
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> I guess your approach to this group is to make provocative
statements
> but not actually contribute. IMNSHO, a non-response would be a
more
> worthwhile contribution. Have a nice day, too.
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc" <eemikez@c...>
wrote:
> > Dude?! Have a nice day. Mike

Another use for baggies was Re: hot glue gun glue

2004-08-09 by Phil

I can see your tone DIDN'T improve. Are you going answer the
questions about explaining your terse and cryptic comments or lecture
us on how to behave? As I see it, you have tossed out several
controversial pronouncements with zero, and I do mean zero, details
on why you are right. I was sticking to the technical questions, you
have avoided any technical answers. I started this a tad skeptical
but, at this point, I think you are just blowing smoke. Prove me
wrong.

and have a nice day.

Show quoted textHide quoted text
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc" <eemikez@c...> wrote:
> I see the tone of you answers got much improved and this is a good
> sign. In the future do not learn from the wrong people to attack
> others and please refrain from personal remarks. Just stick to teh
> technical questions and there won't be any problems. Mike
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...>
wrote:
> > I guess your approach to this group is to make provocative
> statements
> > but not actually contribute. IMNSHO, a non-response would be a
> more
> > worthwhile contribution. Have a nice day, too.
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc" <eemikez@c...>
> wrote:
> > > Dude?! Have a nice day. Mike

Another use for baggies was Re: hot glue gun glue

2004-08-10 by Phil

ammonium perchlorate.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan"
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 16:53:25 -0000, Phil <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
>
> > I totally agree that the best solution is an etch AND storage
tank,
> > all in one.
> >
> > Unfortunately, m tank is plastic. I (currently) use AP. I have
> > heard anecdotal evidence that it eats plastic so I dont want to
store
> > it in the tank. I've kept my eye out for a glass tank but they
are
> > all too big (4 L/1 G) and I want to only have 1 L of etchant for
> > safety sake. I guess at some point I'll build a glass one if I
dont
> > find a suitable container.
>
> What's AP? Acrylic?
> I used to store the CuCl in a PP (poly-propylene) bottle.
> It did form odd crystals on the outside so i changed to a glass
bottle
> after a few years.
> But it didn't seem the bottle was damaged.
> My HCl is in a PE (poly-ethylene) bottle, and it also has crystals
on the
> outside.
> Also the plastic itself seems slightly damaged (after 5 years...).
> I put another cut-off bottle as a sleeve over it (to keep me from
touching
> the crystals
> and to prevent leakage should it fail), next time i buy HCl i
definitely
> don't have
> them refill this bottle and get a new one instead.
>
> I would not worry about a plastic tank for a few years, but who
knows...
> I have a plastic lid (printers use to be made of ABS) and a piece
of
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> rubber is
> part of the clamp, both seems unaffected so far.
>
> ST

OT Re: hot glue gun glue

2004-08-10 by ballendo

>"Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> Frankly, I think that absolute pronouncements are unnecessary, I
> don't like to see them even from experts (of which i do not believe
> we have here).

Phil,

That's a joke, right? Not about the experts per se, but right after
saying "absolute pronouncements are unnecessary", you make one...

So it must be a joke...

Ballendo

OT Re: hot glue gun glue

2004-08-10 by Phil

I said "I think". That makes it my opinion, not an immutable law
that I claim exists. But I can certainly see how some one might read
it the way you did. Do you disagree with the point?

Doesn't it seem reasonable that he follow his absolute pronouncements
with explanations? But he hasn't yet. That's what i was (and still
am) objecting to.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "ballendo" <ballendo@y...>
wrote:
> >"Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> > Frankly, I think that absolute pronouncements are unnecessary, I
> > don't like to see them even from experts (of which i do not
believe
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > we have here).
>
> Phil,
>
> That's a joke, right? Not about the experts per se, but right after
> saying "absolute pronouncements are unnecessary", you make one...
>
> So it must be a joke...
>
> Ballendo

Re: Another use for baggies was Re: hot glue gun glue

2004-08-10 by Richard Mustakos

Stefan
I guess you already have a solution to this, with the mechanical
agitator,
but here goes anyway. One of reasons I was asking about the glue is
because I want to put a bubbler in my etching tank. I got a bubbler from
a pet store, like everyone else, and I'm eventually going to take it apart
and see it is a diaphragm pump. If it is, I'm going to glue it to the
side of
my tank, and recirc fumes into the bubbler. Since no new O2 will get
in this way, (except when I put the board in) I am only looking at this
for agitation, not for regeneration.
Richard
(a known agitator)

Show quoted textHide quoted text
>Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 16:44:07 +0200
> From: "Stefan Trethan" <stefan_trethan@...>
>Subject: Re: Another use for baggies was Re: hot glue gun glue
>
>On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 14:23:55 -0000, Phil <phil1960us@...> wrote:
>
>> I don't want a bubble because of the possible
>>fumes.
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Another use for baggies was Re: hot glue gun glue

2004-08-10 by Stefan Trethan

On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:41:36 -0700, Richard Mustakos <rmustakos@...>
wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Stefan
> I guess you already have a solution to this, with the mechanical
> agitator,
> but here goes anyway. One of reasons I was asking about the glue is
> because I want to put a bubbler in my etching tank. I got a bubbler from
> a pet store, like everyone else, and I'm eventually going to take it
> apart
> and see it is a diaphragm pump. If it is, I'm going to glue it to the
> side of
> my tank, and recirc fumes into the bubbler. Since no new O2 will get
> in this way, (except when I put the board in) I am only looking at this
> for agitation, not for regeneration.
> Richard
> (a known agitator)

please let me know how much faster it is, so i know if i must
consider it.
diaphragm is highly likely.

ST

OT Re: hot glue gun glue

2004-08-11 by Dave Mucha

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> enter pile-on mode. I asked the question to draw out this
discussion
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> to hear why mike thinks a tank is useless. Such statements need to
> be followed with a rationale as to why.


Funny how every long now and again someone comes up with things that
they did once and pronounces them to be the 'end all' of the hobby.

Or who reads a brochure of some plans of some future thing and
proclaims that it will change the market. (if he was talking about
Ballendo's machine I probably would agree)

Or makes some statement that all scientific and medical evidence
shows otherwise and when shown the proof, says that YOU need to find
the data to prove his point.

We also see those who proclaim 'it can't be done' also from people
who don't know how to do things.

My point of view is that if you think it can't be done, then get out
of the way of those who are doing it !

A philosopher I read said that an expert is the one who can do it.
so, it you wanna know about something, disregard those who have no
experience or only spout unfounded opinions and listen to those who
actually do the thing.

My 2 cents.

Thanks for your indulgence.

Dave

The WWW OT Re: hot glue gun glue

2004-08-11 by ballendo

Phil,

I've learned two things about Yahoo groups after reading and posting
many tens of thousands of messages...

One; There are a LOT of different personalities out there.

Two: A whole LOT is misunderstood due to limitations of emails.

The answer to both of these IMO is to choose your battles carefully.
If somebody wants to behave a certain way, they will. That's point
one. BUT, the way I "think" they are behaving may be incorrect
because I'm missing some part of what they're doing--or missed an
element of a thread, etc. That's point two.

I've often had something I "said" misunderstood. Or made what I
thought was a humorous post, only to offend.

There's an entire WORLD of people out there, AND in here...

I'm not gonna get along with every one of them, OR understand each of
them. (points one and two again<G>)

Hope this helps,

Ballendo





Show quoted textHide quoted text
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> I said "I think". That makes it my opinion, not an immutable law
> that I claim exists. But I can certainly see how some one might
read
> it the way you did. Do you disagree with the point?
>
> Doesn't it seem reasonable that he follow his absolute
pronouncements
> with explanations? But he hasn't yet. That's what i was (and still
> am) objecting to.
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "ballendo" <ballendo@y...>
> wrote:
> > >"Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> > > Frankly, I think that absolute pronouncements are unnecessary,
I
> > > don't like to see them even from experts (of which i do not
> believe
> > > we have here).
> >
> > Phil,
> >
> > That's a joke, right? Not about the experts per se, but right
after
> > saying "absolute pronouncements are unnecessary", you make one...
> >
> > So it must be a joke...
> >
> > Ballendo

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] OT Re: hot glue gun glue

2004-08-11 by Alexandre Souza

> Funny how every long now and again someone comes up with things that
> they did once and pronounces them to be the 'end all' of the hobby.

Maybe we could go back to PCBs? :o)


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re: PCB's OT Re: hot glue gun glue

2004-08-11 by ballendo

>Alexandre Souza" <alexandre-listas@e...> wrote:
>Maybe we could go back to PCBs? :o)

No, polychlorinated biphenyls (PCB's) are pretty toxic and there's
not many who'd allow us to go back to using them the ways we once
did... ;o)

Sorry, I'll go away now<G> Too many long hours at the shops these
days...

Ballendo

OT Re: hot glue gun glue

2004-08-11 by mikezcnc

Hi Dave,

As always, your posts are greatly appreciated as a valuable
contribution to a PCB making community. Keep up a good job! Mike



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Mucha" <dave_mucha@y...>
wrote:
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...>
wrote:
> > enter pile-on mode. I asked the question to draw out this
> discussion
> > to hear why mike thinks a tank is useless. Such statements need
to
> > be followed with a rationale as to why.
>
>
> Funny how every long now and again someone comes up with things
that
> they did once and pronounces them to be the 'end all' of the hobby.
>
> Or who reads a brochure of some plans of some future thing and
> proclaims that it will change the market. (if he was talking
about
> Ballendo's machine I probably would agree)
>
> Or makes some statement that all scientific and medical evidence
> shows otherwise and when shown the proof, says that YOU need to
find
> the data to prove his point.
>
> We also see those who proclaim 'it can't be done' also from people
> who don't know how to do things.
>
> My point of view is that if you think it can't be done, then get
out
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> of the way of those who are doing it !
>
> A philosopher I read said that an expert is the one who can do it.
> so, it you wanna know about something, disregard those who have no
> experience or only spout unfounded opinions and listen to those who
> actually do the thing.
>
> My 2 cents.
>
> Thanks for your indulgence.
>
> Dave