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Toner Transfer for Instrument Panels?

Toner Transfer for Instrument Panels?

2004-07-31 by Thomas P. Gootee

If this is too off-topic, maybe someone could point me to a more-appropriate group.

Has anyone got a good way to apply computer-generated artwork to instrument panels?

I currently use the Jameco part number 18876CX cabinets, for the kits I sell. It's an *excellent* cabinet, with a low price. But the front and rear panels are made of soft black plastic, of a type that melts easily. I print the artwork onto sheet-size peel-n-stick labels and trim them and stick them onto the panels, AFTER the holes have been drilled for the controls, etc, and then stick on a piece of peel-n-stick clear plastic laminating sheet. But THEN the holes have to be trimmed out, by hand. Drilling AFTER the artwork has been applied doesn't work, no matter what I sandwich the panels between. (I already have 1/2-inch thick steel plates for drill jigs for the panels, with all of the holes already there with the correct sizes and positions, with bolts to clamp the panels between them. And I've tried also clamping things like non-slip sheeting in there with the panels, but the artwork sheets are always damaged, anyway.)

I've tried quite a few other, similar methods. For example, I used to print in reverse, on the back of a piece of overhead-transparency sheet, and paint the panels white. But hand-trimming the holes is still necessary.

I'd LIKE to use something like toner transfer. Otherwise, the only options I can think of are screen-printing, or a flatbed x-y plotter with a pen or marker, or maybe a CNC engraver or tiny-point router that would remove a layer of paint to expose a different color that was underneath.

Obviously, the soft black plastic panels wouldn't work, for toner transfer, since they'd melt (and would have to be painted first, anyway). But maybe I could use *another* material. I'm sure aluminum, or some other metal, would work. But I don't really want metal. And I don't want the silver (or any metal's) color. FR4 PCB material with no copper would work. But I haven't seen any without manufacturer's

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Toner Transfer for Instrument Panels?

2004-07-31 by ballendo

Hello,

try http://www.pulsar.gs , formerly http://www.dynaart.com/

It's not readily apparent on their website, but the instructions
which come with their dextrin coated paper show how to make decals
and panel labels...

There's another website, with a tag line like "We can show you how
to print on ANYTHING, or your money back!" that also uses toner
transfer to make panels. I'll try to find the URL, but maybe someone
else here knows it in the meantime?

Hope this helps,

Ballendo

P.S. You could always engrave the panels with a CNC machine...<G> (Or
use IT to trim the label and vinyl overlay you're using now...)

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas P. Gootee" <tomg@f...>
wrote:
> If this is too off-topic, maybe someone could point me to a more-
appropriate group.
>
> Has anyone got a good way to apply computer-generated artwork to
instrument panels?
>
> I currently use the Jameco part number 18876CX cabinets, for the
kits I sell. It's an *excellent* cabinet, with a low price. But the
front and rear panels are made of soft black plastic, of a type that
melts easily. I print the artwork onto sheet-size peel-n-stick
labels and trim them and stick them onto the panels, AFTER the holes
have been drilled for the controls, etc, and then stick on a piece of
peel-n-stick clear plastic laminating sheet. But THEN the holes have
to be trimmed out, by hand. Drilling AFTER the artwork has been
applied doesn't work, no matter what I sandwich the panels between.
(I already have 1/2-inch thick steel plates for drill jigs for the
panels, with all of the holes already there with the correct sizes
and positions, with bolts to clamp the panels between them. And I've
tried also clamping things like non-slip sheeting in there with the
panels, but the artwork sheets are always damaged, anyway.)
>
> I've tried quite a few other, similar methods. For example, I used
to print in reverse, on the back of a piece of overhead-transparency
sheet, and paint the panels white. But hand-trimming the holes is
still necessary.
>
> I'd LIKE to use something like toner transfer. Otherwise, the only
options I can think of are screen-printing, or a flatbed x-y plotter
with a pen or marker, or maybe a CNC engraver or tiny-point router
that would remove a layer of paint to expose a different color that
was underneath.
>
> Obviously, the soft black plastic panels wouldn't work, for toner
transfer, since they'd melt (and would have to be painted first,
anyway). But maybe I could use *another* material. I'm sure
aluminum, or some other metal, would work. But I don't really want
metal. And I don't want the silver (or any metal's) color. FR4 PCB
material with no copper would work. But I haven't seen any without
manufacturer's
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Toner Transfer for Instrument Panels?

2004-07-31 by Stefan Trethan

On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 09:01:02 -0000, ballendo <ballendo@...> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> try http://www.pulsar.gs , formerly http://www.dynaart.com/
>
> It's not readily apparent on their website, but the instructions
> which come with their dextrin coated paper show how to make decals
> and panel labels...
>
> There's another website, with a tag line like "We can show you how
> to print on ANYTHING, or your money back!" that also uses toner
> transfer to make panels. I'll try to find the URL, but maybe someone
> else here knows it in the meantime?
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Ballendo
>
> P.S. You could always engrave the panels with a CNC machine...<G> (Or
> use IT to trim the label and vinyl overlay you're using now...)
>

I made a house-number sign out of etched pcb and toner transfer.
Worked well.
You either need metal or anything heat resistant.

ST

Re: Toner Transfer for Instrument Panels?

2004-07-31 by Thomas P. Gootee

Ballendo,

Thanks.

The CNC machine MAY actually solve most or all of my remaining production-automation "problems"!

For one thing, the plastic instrument panels are so soft that the machine will probably also be able to rout all of the holes out of them, for me.

The CNC PCB-drilling, of course, will probably be the biggest help, for me. Each of my sets of boards has well over 800 holes. And my eyes "ain't what they used to be"!

Do you have an estimate of the time frame until we can get our hands on your machines? Sorry if that's been asked before.

Tom Gootee

http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg

P.S. Has anyone though about using a CNC machine to hold a small laser or lamp (maybe CNC-adjustable-focus or adjustable beam cross-section or something), to put down traces on photo-sensitive pcbs?

"There's no use in beating a dead horse, except, of course, for the sheer JOY of it!" - A. Whitney Brown, on an episode of "Saturday Night Live", circa early 1980s.

-----------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 09:01:02 -0000
From: "ballendo" <ballendo@...>
Subject: Re: Toner Transfer for Instrument Panels?

Hello,

try http://www.pulsar.gs , formerly http://www.dynaart.com/

It's not readily apparent on their website, but the instructions
which come with their dextrin coated paper show how to make decals
and panel labels...

There's another website, with a tag line like "We can show you how
to print on ANYTHING, or your money back!" that also uses toner
transfer to make panels. I'll try to find the URL, but maybe someone
else here knows it in the meantime?

Hope this helps,

Ballendo

P.S. You could always engrave the panels with a CNC machine...<G> (Or
use IT to trim the label and vinyl overlay you're using now...)

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas P. Gootee" <tomg@f...>
wrote:
> If this is too off-topic, maybe someone could point me to a more-
appropriate group.
>
> Has anyone got a good way to apply computer-generated artwork to
instrument panels?
>
<snipped>

-------------


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Toner Transfer for Instrument Panels?

2004-07-31 by mikezcnc

Tom,

ballendo said that details will be available next week, delivery in
August, 2004.

800 holes- are they two layers? Mike

***

"There is no joy in facing a dead horse after three days"- Mike



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas P. Gootee" <tomg@f...>
wrote:
> Ballendo,
>
> Thanks.
>
> The CNC machine MAY actually solve most or all of my remaining
production-automation "problems"!
>
> For one thing, the plastic instrument panels are so soft that the
machine will probably also be able to rout all of the holes out of
them, for me.
>
> The CNC PCB-drilling, of course, will probably be the biggest help,
for me. Each of my sets of boards has well over 800 holes. And my
eyes "ain't what they used to be"!
>
> Do you have an estimate of the time frame until we can get our
hands on your machines? Sorry if that's been asked before.
>
> Tom Gootee
>
> http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg
>
> P.S. Has anyone though about using a CNC machine to hold a small
laser or lamp (maybe CNC-adjustable-focus or adjustable beam cross-
section or something), to put down traces on photo-sensitive pcbs?
>
> "There's no use in beating a dead horse, except, of course, for the
sheer JOY of it!" - A. Whitney Brown, on an episode of "Saturday
Night Live", circa early 1980s.
>
> -----------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 09:01:02 -0000
> From: "ballendo" <ballendo@y...>
> Subject: Re: Toner Transfer for Instrument Panels?
>
> Hello,
>
> try http://www.pulsar.gs , formerly http://www.dynaart.com/
>
> It's not readily apparent on their website, but the instructions
> which come with their dextrin coated paper show how to make decals
> and panel labels...
>
> There's another website, with a tag line like "We can show you how
> to print on ANYTHING, or your money back!" that also uses toner
> transfer to make panels. I'll try to find the URL, but maybe
someone
> else here knows it in the meantime?
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Ballendo
>
> P.S. You could always engrave the panels with a CNC machine...<G>
(Or
> use IT to trim the label and vinyl overlay you're using now...)
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas P. Gootee"
<tomg@f...>
> wrote:
> > If this is too off-topic, maybe someone could point me to a more-
> appropriate group.
> >
> > Has anyone got a good way to apply computer-generated artwork to
> instrument panels?
> >
> <snipped>
>
> -------------
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Toner Transfer for Instrument Panels?

2004-07-31 by Dave Mucha

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "ballendo" <ballendo@y...>
wrote:
> Hello,
>
> try http://www.pulsar.gs , formerly http://www.dynaart.com/
>
> It's not readily apparent on their website, but the instructions
> which come with their dextrin coated paper show how to make decals
> and panel labels...
>
> There's another website, with a tag line like "We can show you how
> to print on ANYTHING, or your money back!" that also uses toner
> transfer to make panels. I'll try to find the URL, but maybe
someone
> else here knows it in the meantime?
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Ballendo
>
>

I think with a challeng like that, I'd like to seem them print with
food dye on water !


As for the panels. you can get aluminum tape that they use for metal
repair. it's like duct tape with metal. then toner transfer on that.

you can get thin sheetmetal and toner transfer on that and then with
the nuts and bolts of your lights and switeches, hold the face plate
on.

Or, as Ballendo mentioned, you can mechanically etch either metal, or
even that two color plastic laminate label stuff. Like they make
nametags with.

I used to have a part that used that material as the front of the
part.

Dave

Re: Toner Transfer for Instrument Panels?

2004-08-01 by tomg@fullnet.com

Mike,

Just single layer, single-sided. Three boards per kit. One is 4x6
inches (main curve tracer board). Two are 2.25x6 inches (power
amplifier and power supply boards). There's also a very small fourth
board, 1.25x0.75 inches, for a small 8-pin transistor socket that
protrudes from the front panel (a third convenient redundant device-
under-test interface).

I have had to keep the boards as simple to fabricate as possible,
since I also offer a lower-cost version of the kit that includes a
make-your-own-boards option, with blank pcbs and toner patterns
included (as well as powdered etchant, plastic etching tub,
scotchbrite pad, aluminum solvent pan, etc). (And, amazingly, even
though none of the buyers that I know of had ever made a PCB with TT,
before, only one guy out of 100 needs a new toner pattern sheet.)

Regarding a three-days-dead horse: Ever been to the Death Valley
museum, at Furnace Creek, CA? Excellent counter-example.

- Tom Gootee

http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg

------------------------------

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc" <eemikez@c...> wrote:
> Tom,
>
> ballendo said that details will be available next week, delivery in
> August, 2004.
>
> 800 holes- are they two layers? Mike
>
> ***
>
> "There is no joy in facing a dead horse after three days"- Mike
>
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas P. Gootee"
<tomg@f...>
> wrote:
> > Ballendo,
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > The CNC machine MAY actually solve most or all of my remaining
> production-automation "problems"!
> >
> > For one thing, the plastic instrument panels are so soft that the
> machine will probably also be able to rout all of the holes out of
> them, for me.
> >
> > The CNC PCB-drilling, of course, will probably be the biggest
help,
> for me. Each of my sets of boards has well over 800 holes. And my
> eyes "ain't what they used to be"!
> >
> > Do you have an estimate of the time frame until we can get our
> hands on your machines? Sorry if that's been asked before.
> >
> > Tom Gootee
> >
> > http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg
> >
> > P.S. Has anyone though about using a CNC machine to hold a small
> laser or lamp (maybe CNC-adjustable-focus or adjustable beam cross-
> section or something), to put down traces on photo-sensitive pcbs?
> >
> > "There's no use in beating a dead horse, except, of course, for
the
> sheer JOY of it!" - A. Whitney Brown, on an episode of "Saturday
> Night Live", circa early 1980s.
> >
> > -----------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 09:01:02 -0000
> > From: "ballendo" <ballendo@y...>
> > Subject: Re: Toner Transfer for Instrument Panels?
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > try http://www.pulsar.gs , formerly http://www.dynaart.com/
> >
> > It's not readily apparent on their website, but the instructions
> > which come with their dextrin coated paper show how to make
decals
> > and panel labels...
> >
> > There's another website, with a tag line like "We can show you
how
> > to print on ANYTHING, or your money back!" that also uses toner
> > transfer to make panels. I'll try to find the URL, but maybe
> someone
> > else here knows it in the meantime?
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> >
> > Ballendo
> >
> > P.S. You could always engrave the panels with a CNC machine...<G>
> (Or
> > use IT to trim the label and vinyl overlay you're using now...)
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas P. Gootee"
> <tomg@f...>
> > wrote:
> > > If this is too off-topic, maybe someone could point me to a
more-
> > appropriate group.
> > >
> > > Has anyone got a good way to apply computer-generated artwork
to
> > instrument panels?
> > >
> > <snipped>
> >
> > -------------
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Toner Transfer for Instrument Panels?

2004-08-01 by Phil

Recently, I was scavaging a broken terminal concentrator which dates
from the early 90s. The front panel was made out of a printed, self
adhesive plastic sheet that was laminated onto the metal of the
chassis. I peeled it off and it looked to be about 10 mils thick. I
would bet that the material is printable and it felt a lot like the
convering material for membrane switches. Maybe it is available. I
bet it could be directly printed on a laser printer.

Also, the panel I peeled off had a bunch of translucent sections for
LEDs to shine through . Pretty slick but it was probably a custom
job.

Re: Toner Transfer for Instrument Panels?

2004-08-02 by ballendo

Hello,

I've used both inkjet and toner based adhesive "transparencies"
(available at all office supply stores) for panel work. Just cover
the printed layer with a second clear adhesive sheet, and you're good
for years of service...

Ballendo

P.S. The toner based transparencies are "clearer", since the inkjet
type need "etched" so that the ink has "tooth" to hold to.



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> Recently, I was scavaging a broken terminal concentrator which
dates
> from the early 90s. The front panel was made out of a printed,
self
> adhesive plastic sheet that was laminated onto the metal of the
> chassis. I peeled it off and it looked to be about 10 mils thick.
I
> would bet that the material is printable and it felt a lot like the
> convering material for membrane switches. Maybe it is available.
I
> bet it could be directly printed on a laser printer.
>
> Also, the panel I peeled off had a bunch of translucent sections
for
> LEDs to shine through . Pretty slick but it was probably a custom
> job.

Re: Toner Transfer for Instrument Panels?

2004-08-02 by Phil

yes, I've done that too. But the stuff I pulled off had a nice
texture (kind of a rough matte - i.e. wasn't glossy) and felt very
durable. the clear adhesive stuff doesn't seem all that durable and
I suspect it yellows over time.

The advantage of the inkjet transparencies is that you can print
color/diffuser windows for LEDs.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "ballendo" <ballendo@y...>
wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I've used both inkjet and toner based adhesive "transparencies"
> (available at all office supply stores) for panel work. Just cover
> the printed layer with a second clear adhesive sheet, and you're
good
> for years of service...
>
> Ballendo
>
> P.S. The toner based transparencies are "clearer", since the inkjet
> type need "etched" so that the ink has "tooth" to hold to.
>
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...>
wrote:
> > Recently, I was scavaging a broken terminal concentrator which
> dates
> > from the early 90s. The front panel was made out of a printed,
> self
> > adhesive plastic sheet that was laminated onto the metal of the
> > chassis. I peeled it off and it looked to be about 10 mils
thick.
> I
> > would bet that the material is printable and it felt a lot like
the
> > convering material for membrane switches. Maybe it is
available.
> I
> > bet it could be directly printed on a laser printer.
> >
> > Also, the panel I peeled off had a bunch of translucent sections
> for
> > LEDs to shine through . Pretty slick but it was probably a
custom
> > job.