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Inkjet printing of PCB's

Inkjet printing of PCB's

2004-05-09 by mycroft2152

I've been following this thread for a while now and it has intrigued 
me enough to sacrifice a Lexmark Z52 printer to convert it to a 
straight through printer.

The major issues (IMHO) is in finding a resist that will: 1. flow 
through the printhead, 2. wet out and print well on the copper 
surface, and 3. will not be removed by the etchant.

After a visit to my dentist getting my teeth sealed yesterday, I 
started thinking about uv-curable inks. In other words, a 2-step 
process, printing the resist and then curing it.

I thought about getting some of the tooth sealer to try, but I 
realised I was missing the obvious. We already have uv curable 
fluids used for pcb making - the photoresists. I had used a couple 
of time years ago and didn't get the results hoped for. I had used 
the spray cans of resist to sensitize the boards. 

I remember seeing on the web (forgot the link), a range of pcb 
making chemical that were sold in apllicator bottles, like liquid 
shoe polish. Has anyone used these? Any thoughts?

Myc

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Inkjet printing of PCB's

2004-05-09 by Stefan Trethan

On Sun, 09 May 2004 16:20:28 -0000, mycroft2152 <mycroft2152@...> 
wrote:

> I've been following this thread for a while now and it has intrigued
> me enough to sacrifice a Lexmark Z52 printer to convert it to a
> straight through printer.
>
It's a thermal, i won't recommend it.


> The major issues (IMHO) is in finding a resist that will: 1. flow
> through the printhead, 2. wet out and print well on the copper
> surface, and 3. will not be removed by the etchant.

You can't use acrylic, and most likely you can't use anything else
than water based. You may try alcohol based.

>
> After a visit to my dentist getting my teeth sealed yesterday, I
> started thinking about uv-curable inks. In other words, a 2-step
> process, printing the resist and then curing it.

Yes this is widely used in wide-format printing e.g on plastic.
It would be very good for PCBs.
I could not find a suitable ink. It must be inkjet ink becasue
the ink you get for screenprinting doesn't fit through.

>
> I thought about getting some of the tooth sealer to try, but I
> realised I was missing the obvious. We already have uv curable
> fluids used for pcb making - the photoresists. I had used a couple
> of time years ago and didn't get the results hoped for. I had used
> the spray cans of resist to sensitize the boards.

They are not uv-curable, they are uv sensitive.
they don't solidify when exposed to UV. they are solvent based.

>
> I remember seeing on the web (forgot the link), a range of pcb
> making chemical that were sold in apllicator bottles, like liquid
> shoe polish. Has anyone used these? Any thoughts?

As said, no better than laquer, they are no uv cure, only uv sensitive.

>
> Myc


If you want to try your printer you should start with aluminium foil.
You have disposeable cartridges so no harm done if it doesn't work.

Get some alcohol based marker ink, and try it.
You must clean your cartridge good before trying it.
smell if it is ammonia (water based). try to flush all old ink out with 
water,
maybe add windex (ammonia cleaner). then flush again to get pure water in 
it.
(print a lot of black pages).

when you are confident that it is pure water empty it, and fill with 
alcohol
(methylated spirits or something). let run a bit to fill all the head with
alcohol and get all water replaced.
the fill in permanent marker ink, diluted with alcohol 1:1. You may also 
try
the metalworking blue, if it is alcohol solved.

then try printing. the alcohol will have a lower boiling point, but maybe
it is in the range that works. What may happen is that the heat of the 
head makes
the nk clog, because only the alcohol is vaporized. then you are doomed 
;-) .


Again, i do not think it is possible to use a thermo-jet. do not try 
acrylic floor
polish, i tried it and it doesn't work.

ST

Re: Inkjet printing of PCB's

2004-05-09 by mycroft2152

Hi Stefan,

Thanks for the info. I've got a few old cartridges I can experiment 
with. The Lexmark Z52 converted very easily to straight through 
printing. A few screws and the paper guides were removed.

I'm not sure if the difference between uv-curable and uv-sensitive 
is relevant since the uv resists that are 'only' uv-sensitive work 
and are sold for that purpose.

I'm only suggesting their use for the etching process, not printing 
legends. I currently print the legend with toner transfer on with 
the release paper from labels.

Myc

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Inkjet printing of PCB's

2004-05-09 by Stefan Trethan

On Sun, 09 May 2004 17:26:17 -0000, mycroft2152 <mycroft2152@...> 
wrote:

> Hi Stefan,
>
> Thanks for the info. I've got a few old cartridges I can experiment
> with. The Lexmark Z52 converted very easily to straight through
> printing. A few screws and the paper guides were removed.

the flatbed conversion will never be a problem, even if the printer curls
the paper around 5 rollers and folds it afterwards to fit a emvelope.

the problem is the ink.
the chances are high you have done the conversion for nothing (welcome to 
the club).


>
> I'm not sure if the difference between uv-curable and uv-sensitive
> is relevant since the uv resists that are 'only' uv-sensitive work
> and are sold for that purpose.

uv curable means the ink you inkjet on the copper solidifies when exposed 
to UV.
it is some plastic polimerisation process.

UV sensitive means the ink changes it's properties, so that it can be 
whashed
off by developer where exposed. It is a solvent based ink, which must dry 
before
you can expose it. the solvent may even attack plastic.


>
> I'm only suggesting their use for the etching process, not printing
> legends. I currently print the legend with toner transfer on with
> the release paper from labels.
>

I'm only saying you can't use any of the UV functionailty in resist laquer.
you could use standard laquer all the same.

I'm not sure about plastic compatibility.

good luck

ST

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Inkjet printing of PCB's

2004-05-10 by DJHaCK

Hi,

it's not really related but would it work to replace the printer head 
with a UV laser and "print" on a
uv-sensitive pcb , a bit like how laser printer work except without a 
spinning mirror involved

Stefan Trethan wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>On Sun, 09 May 2004 17:26:17 -0000, mycroft2152 <mycroft2152@...> 
>wrote:
>
>
>>Hi Stefan,
>>
>>Thanks for the info. I've got a few old cartridges I can experiment
>>with. The Lexmark Z52 converted very easily to straight through
>>printing. A few screws and the paper guides were removed.
>>
>
>the flatbed conversion will never be a problem, even if the printer curls
>the paper around 5 rollers and folds it afterwards to fit a emvelope.
>
>the problem is the ink.
>the chances are high you have done the conversion for nothing (welcome to 
>the club).
>
>
>
>>I'm not sure if the difference between uv-curable and uv-sensitive
>>is relevant since the uv resists that are 'only' uv-sensitive work
>>and are sold for that purpose.
>>
>
>uv curable means the ink you inkjet on the copper solidifies when exposed 
>to UV.
>it is some plastic polimerisation process.
>
>UV sensitive means the ink changes it's properties, so that it can be 
>whashed
>off by developer where exposed. It is a solvent based ink, which must dry 
>before
>you can expose it. the solvent may even attack plastic.
>
>
>
>>I'm only suggesting their use for the etching process, not printing
>>legends. I currently print the legend with toner transfer on with
>>the release paper from labels.
>>
>>
>
>I'm only saying you can't use any of the UV functionailty in resist laquer.
>you could use standard laquer all the same.
>
>I'm not sure about plastic compatibility.
>
>good luck
>
>ST
>
>
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Inkjet printing of PCB's

2004-05-10 by Stefan Trethan

On Sun, 09 May 2004 20:47:01 -0400, DJHaCK <djhack@...> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> it's not really related but would it work to replace the printer head
> with a UV laser and "print" on a
> uv-sensitive pcb , a bit like how laser printer work except without a
> spinning mirror involved
>

You are talking about a "photoplotter".
They are commercially available.
The probem is you would need to exchage all electronics.

I think it is not exactly the easiest approach as it involves coating with 
resist
and developing, which makes it highly questionable if it is simpler than 
TT.
of course the quality can be very good.

ST

Re: Inkjet printing of PCB's

2004-05-10 by mikezcnc

photoplotter...or imagesetter...using a UV diode because many of them 
use a red LED. Jon Elson ha a website where he shows a home made 
photoplotter and wrote his own software, quite an amazing design for 
home applications. During last NAMES he showed me his PCB made using 
this method on his own photoplotter and it is stunning razor sharp. 
Jon uses a red LED and a red sensitive coating material but ther is 
no technical problem to change it to UV if somone had good reason for 
it. Like Stefan said, preparing the PCB for IR snesitive material 
takes time and skill but the cost benefits are enormous. Using 
Stefan's example I acquired a shoebox of PCBs and now it costs me 
pennies on a dolalr to make them sensitive. If only Jon agreed to 
sell his design of a photoplotter in form of plans... I saw him 
writing on a Gecko group... What we need for this hobby is a 
photoplotter. My adventure in getting a commercial unit to work is so 
troublesome and expensive that I would rather build one from scratch 
than going thru it again. Mike

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan 
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
> On Sun, 09 May 2004 20:47:01 -0400, DJHaCK <djhack@a...> wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > it's not really related but would it work to replace the printer 
head
> > with a UV laser and "print" on a
> > uv-sensitive pcb , a bit like how laser printer work except 
without a
> > spinning mirror involved
> >
> 
> You are talking about a "photoplotter".
> They are commercially available.
> The probem is you would need to exchage all electronics.
> 
> I think it is not exactly the easiest approach as it involves 
coating with 
> resist
> and developing, which makes it highly questionable if it is simpler 
than 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> TT.
> of course the quality can be very good.
> 
> ST

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Inkjet printing of PCB's

2004-05-10 by Alexandre Souza

> photoplotter...or imagesetter...using a UV diode because many of them
> use a red LED. Jon Elson ha a website where he shows a home made
> photoplotter and wrote his own software, quite an amazing design for

    Hummm...Link? I looked for Jon Elson on Google and got nothing on
photoplotting :o(


---
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Re: Inkjet printing of PCB's

2004-05-11 by mikezcnc

Here is Jon Elson's site. He is a fantastic guy and exceptionally 
talented engineer. http://www.pico-systems.com/photoplot.html  Mike


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Alexandre Souza" <alexandre-
listas@e...> wrote:
> > photoplotter...or imagesetter...using a UV diode because many of 
them
> > use a red LED. Jon Elson ha a website where he shows a home made
> > photoplotter and wrote his own software, quite an amazing design 
for
> 
>     Hummm...Link? I looked for Jon Elson on Google and got nothing 
on
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> photoplotting :o(
> 
> 
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.679 / Virus Database: 441 - Release Date: 07/05/04

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Inkjet printing of PCB's

2004-05-11 by Adam Seychell

I wonder how he processes the film in TOTAL darkness. Anyone know 
where do you buy red light sensitive film  or how much it costs ? 
I got quotes some time ago and it was around AUD$1000 for a pile 
of sheets. Jon Elson notes that his plotter scans at 0.01"/sec 
(0.25mm/sec), which works out to about 5 to 10 minutes for a 
typical PCB at 25\ufffdm image resolution.

Adam

mikezcnc wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Here is Jon Elson's site. He is a fantastic guy and exceptionally 
> talented engineer. http://www.pico-systems.com/photoplot.html  Mike
> 
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Alexandre Souza" <alexandre-
> listas@e...> wrote:
> 
>>>photoplotter...or imagesetter...using a UV diode because many of 
> 
> them
> 
>>>use a red LED. Jon Elson ha a website where he shows a home made
>>>photoplotter and wrote his own software, quite an amazing design 
> 
> for
> 
>>    Hummm...Link? I looked for Jon Elson on Google and got nothing 
> 
> on
> 
>>photoplotting :o(
>>
>>
>>---
>>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>>Version: 6.0.679 / Virus Database: 441 - Release Date: 07/05/04
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
>

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