Homebrew PCBs

The material Data Safety Sheet for Oxyclean lists it as Potassium 
Hydroxide.

http://www.melrosechem.com/english/msd_eng/hs0853.pdf

I did a squirt of Muriatid Acid from the hardware store and a dash of 
powdered Oyyclean.

Lots of gasses.

The solution was cold tap water and the chemical reaction did not 
have any signifigant exothermic reaction (didn't get warm)

It did eat the copper off a couple test strips.  I left them 
overnight and it ate hte copper off about an inch above the water 
level.

Just to show I have no clue on chemical reactions, I filled the cup 
with kids driveway chalk to 'neutralize' the acid.

OK,  does anyone know of Oyxclean is a SAFE alternative to hydrogen 
peroxide ?   Or can just guess at it ?

I will attempt a TT board with this over the next weekend.  Outside, 
preferably in a high wind, while it is raining......

Dave

(dilution is the cure for pollution)

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Mucha" <dave_mucha@y...> 
wrote:
> 
> 
> The material Data Safety Sheet for Oxyclean lists it as Potassium 
> Hydroxide.
> 
> http://www.melrosechem.com/english/msd_eng/hs0853.pdf
> 
> I did a squirt of Muriatid Acid from the hardware store and a dash 
of 
> powdered Oyyclean.
> 
> Lots of gasses.
> 
> The solution was cold tap water and the chemical reaction did not 
> have any signifigant exothermic reaction (didn't get warm)
> 
> It did eat the copper off a couple test strips.  I left them 
> overnight and it ate hte copper off about an inch above the water 
> level.
> 
> Just to show I have no clue on chemical reactions, I filled the cup 
> with kids driveway chalk to 'neutralize' the acid.
> 
> OK,  does anyone know of Oyxclean is a SAFE alternative to hydrogen 
> peroxide ?   Or can just guess at it ?
> 
> I will attempt a TT board with this over the next weekend.  
Outside, 
> preferably in a high wind, while it is raining......
> 
> Dave
> 
> (dilution is the cure for pollution)


a little more google and this came up.  

http://experts.about.com/q/2460/2671970.htm

sodium percarbonate/sodium carbonate mix which is a stabilized mix of 
sodium carbonate and hydrogen peroxide with extra sodium carbonate 
thrown in. Hydrogen peroxide is released when you add it to water. 
Sanitize? For food, I doubt it has been approved and may not be 
strong enough. For general cleaning, it really would not work on many 
things. It is better for spots not crud removal. Doesn't work at all 
on oil/grease. If you search www.google.com for sodium percarbonate 
you will find info from various suppliers.

> Dave
>
> (dilution is the cure for pollution)
>

Didn't that go "the solution for pollution is dilution"?


No idea about the chemical reaction - sure others know better.

ST

Dave
  Did you try this as a rejuvenator, or just for starters?  When did it 
outgas, when they were
mixed, when you were etching, or both?  If it yields H2O2 when it hits 
water (per the link
(http://experts.about.com/q/2460/2671970.htm), it may have, though the 
'expert'
disagrees with the product data sheet, product data sheet says CO2) it 
could just
have been an initial reaction, and turned stable when it was done 
"converting".  I've got a
couple of gal of HCl, but only a liter of 3% H2O2, and was looking for a 
way to make up
the O2 deficit, both immediate and over time.
  According to the product sheet you pointed to, it is 'incompatible 
with acids' :^)
Contact with acid generates heat and liberates carbon dioxide.
  The heat is controllable.  The CO2 gas generation is not an issue. 
 Question is what does
the K do to the mixture.  I sent the question to a chemistry expert - we 
will see if he answers.
(same guy at experts.about.com)
Richard

><snip>
>I did a squirt of Muriatid Acid from the hardware store and a dash of 
>powdered Oyyclean.
>
>Lots of gasses.
>
>The solution was cold tap water and the chemical reaction did not 
>have any signifigant exothermic reaction (didn't get warm)
><snip>
>
>I will attempt a TT board with this over the next weekend.  Outside, 
>preferably in a high wind, while it is raining......
>
>Dave
>  
>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Richard Mustakos 
<rmustakos@a...> wrote:
> Dave
>   Did you try this as a rejuvenator, or just for starters?

First attempt at chemicals.

  When did it 
> outgas, when they were
> mixed, when you were etching, or both? 


All the time.  more if I stirred it.

> If it yields H2O2 when it hits 
> water (per the link
> (http://experts.about.com/q/2460/2671970.htm), it may have, though 
the 
> 'expert'
> disagrees with the product data sheet, product data sheet says CO2) 
it 
> could just
> have been an initial reaction, and turned stable when it was done 
> "converting".  I've got a
> couple of gal of HCl, but only a liter of 3% H2O2, and was looking 
for a 
> way to make up
> the O2 deficit, both immediate and over time.
>   According to the product sheet you pointed to, it 
is 'incompatible 
> with acids' :^)
> Contact with acid generates heat and liberates carbon dioxide.
>   The heat is controllable.  The CO2 gas generation is not an 
issue. 
>  Question is what does
> the K do to the mixture.  I sent the question to a chemistry 
expert - we 
> will see if he answers.
> (same guy at experts.about.com)
> Richard

I don't know what it did, but it did remove the copper.

I'll be very interested in more information.

Dave

>  I've got a
> couple of gal of HCl, but only a liter of 3% H2O2, and was looking for a
> way to make up
> the O2 deficit, both immediate and over time.

Well, you don't exactly need the O2.
The oxygen is not engaged in etching as i understand it.
It only "frees" the clorine from the HCl, building H2O along the way.
The clorine is free then and binds the copper.

(That's how i guess, please tell me if it is stupid)

Now, if you need no oxygen it might
just work to do some heavy electrolysis, preferably with a spinning 
electrode.
(but a static one might too work - maybe a long hose filled with etchant 
an the electrode
at the bottom to "solve" most clorine in the etchant.
Crank the current up until you get just enough gas to not raise too much 
to the top.

Now if you have trouble maintaining the copper level (it plates) simply use
copper anode and cathode, no carbon or titanium.
If you want to reduce copper then switch over to no-copper electrodes.

The only chemical needing replenishing is HCl, and even that can be kept 
low
if there is no clorine gas emission and you plate out the excess copper.

Of course you can always add a air bubbler.

Discussion on the above very welcome.

ST

this minute got 15gram at ebay for 2.5eur.
normally pay well above 10eur at mail order and there comes a tip with the 
ebay syringe.

Hope it is not a 100 years old and not working properly.

Guess i have to fetch that old toaster oven amd make my 2-stage reflow.

ST

Snickering as I write this...

KOH (Potassium hydroxide aka pot ash...) mixed with
h202 and a little hcl will eat all sorts of things
(Some of which would surprise you). Including glass
and skin: It's an alkaline metal, highly active and a
little goes a long way. If I remember correctly, it's
used in the production of si wafers.

If your storing your solution in glass, I'd put it
plastic to avoid a mess. Always wash hands following
handling the mixture. Should be safe if you treat it
with respect and excercise common sense.


Best

Marvin Dickens

=====
Registered Linux User No. 80253
If you use linux, get counted at: 
http://www.linuxcounter.org


	
		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs  
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover

Dave,

Actually what the MSDS tells you is that the only "hazardous" 
ingredient is Potassium Hydroxide. And that it occurs in a 10-30% 
volume within the product.

That it's a chlorinated detergent...

And that acids are not to be mixed with it...

I'd sure want to have a clear idea what the "other" 70 to NINETY 
percent is before mixing it like a modern day alchemist!

Good luck. Be sure your will is current...

Ballendo

>In Homebrew_PCBs, "Dave Mucha" <dave_mucha@y...> >wrote:
> 
> The material Data Safety Sheet for Oxyclean lists it as Potassium 
> Hydroxide.