Fine soldering iron
2004-03-17 by Moore
Want to hand solder 44pin qfp's. Need a new soldering iron that
won't break the bank. (less than $50). Suggestions?
Phil
won't break the bank. (less than $50). Suggestions?
Phil
Thread
Fine soldering iron
Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Fine soldering iron
2004-03-17 by Jeremy Taylor
Get a cheap iron and grind the tip
Or the "economy" weller station can use the full line of st tips, but that
be closer to 60-70 w/shipping.w/ a extra tip
http://www.mouser.com/catalog/617/1183.pdf
(at the bottom right of the page)
JT
Or the "economy" weller station can use the full line of st tips, but that
be closer to 60-70 w/shipping.w/ a extra tip
http://www.mouser.com/catalog/617/1183.pdf
(at the bottom right of the page)
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Moore" <pminmo@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 9:55 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Fine soldering iron
> Want to hand solder 44pin qfp's. Need a new soldering iron that
> won't break the bank. (less than $50). Suggestions?
>
> Phil
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Fine soldering iron
2004-03-17 by Phil
that's certainly one approach. I think you will find a ground tip
wont last that long. I went through a succession of cheap irons and
finally got a temperature controller soldering station (hakko - $90
including tax) and a couple of fine tips. very glad I did. You can
get similar new for 70-80 and maybe cheaper if you shop around.
here's a used hakko on ebay (same model I got) for about your price.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&item=3803309151&category=58293 These come up a lot on ebay.
They have a lot of tips (including very fine ones) for around $5 each.
I really encourage you to not skimp on an iron - a good one will last
a long time. cheap out and not only will soldering be harder but you
will replace it in a year or less.
By the way, there is a technique for soldering qfps and other fine
pitch devices that doesn't use a fine tip iron - you just slather on
the solder and use wick to clean the bridges. People claim to have
gotten good enough to not require any wick. I found it by googling
for the obvious keywords.
wont last that long. I went through a succession of cheap irons and
finally got a temperature controller soldering station (hakko - $90
including tax) and a couple of fine tips. very glad I did. You can
get similar new for 70-80 and maybe cheaper if you shop around.
here's a used hakko on ebay (same model I got) for about your price.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&item=3803309151&category=58293 These come up a lot on ebay.
They have a lot of tips (including very fine ones) for around $5 each.
I really encourage you to not skimp on an iron - a good one will last
a long time. cheap out and not only will soldering be harder but you
will replace it in a year or less.
By the way, there is a technique for soldering qfps and other fine
pitch devices that doesn't use a fine tip iron - you just slather on
the solder and use wick to clean the bridges. People claim to have
gotten good enough to not require any wick. I found it by googling
for the obvious keywords.
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Jeremy Taylor" <jt@j...> wrote:
> Get a cheap iron and grind the tip
> Or the "economy" weller station can use the full line of st tips,
but that
> be closer to 60-70 w/shipping.w/ a extra tip
> http://www.mouser.com/catalog/617/1183.pdf
> (at the bottom right of the page)
>
> JT
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Moore" <pminmo@c...>
> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 9:55 PM
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Fine soldering iron
>
>
> > Want to hand solder 44pin qfp's. Need a new soldering iron that
> > won't break the bank. (less than $50). Suggestions?
> >
> > Phil
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
files:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Fine soldering iron
2004-03-17 by Stefan Trethan
On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 02:55:46 -0000, Moore <pminmo@...> wrote:
I was told metcal is the ultimate manufacturer for smd irons, maybe
you can find one at ebay.... (maybe a defunct in this price range and
repair).
there is a "drag tip" for the metcal which someone here has and says good
words of.
However i would try the baking method first...
ST
> Want to hand solder 44pin qfp's. Need a new soldering iron thatWhy not apply paste and bake it in the oven? much quicker...
> won't break the bank. (less than $50). Suggestions?
>
> Phil
>
>
I was told metcal is the ultimate manufacturer for smd irons, maybe
you can find one at ebay.... (maybe a defunct in this price range and
repair).
there is a "drag tip" for the metcal which someone here has and says good
words of.
However i would try the baking method first...
ST
Re: Fine soldering iron
2004-03-17 by Steve
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
...
> I really encourage you to not skimp on an iron - a good one will last
> a long time. cheap out and not only will soldering be harder but you
> will replace it in a year or less.
...
I agree. A ground down tip will be bare copper, which will get eaten
away by the solder very quickly.
And if you pay a bit too much for a tool that is a bit more than you
need, you're only out the little bit more you paid. If you buy a cheap
tool that is not quite up to snuff, you wasted the entire purchase price.
I bought a Weller with a fine tip for about $70 from a surplus store
here in Tacoma. He rebuilds them so they are used but in very good
condition, often with new elements. These are the kind with the tips
that you change to change the temp. I actually prefer those, I find
the temp more constant. Since the tip itself works as the temp
detector, it responds pretty much instantly to temp drops. Whereas
many variable temp irons, first the tip cools a bit and then a
thermistor must cool before the heating element gets kicked in again.
Sometimes the thermistor is in the heating element, which introduces
even more delay.
I think the ones with the hole in the back of the tip place the
thermistor inside the tip? Anyone know?
Steve
Re: Fine soldering iron
2004-03-17 by Steve
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
simple. To get repeatable results, you need a time and temp controlled
oven that can heat up and cool down quickly (which means convection)
and programmed soak and bake cycles. The goal is to keep the board at
solder melting temp as short as possible to avoid destroying
components, while still getting 100% good soldered joints.
Steve
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 02:55:46 -0000, Moore <pminmo@c...> wrote:Have you done this yet? I've followed the EZ Bake list and it's not so
>
> > Want to hand solder 44pin qfp's. Need a new soldering iron that
> > won't break the bank. (less than $50). Suggestions?
> Why not apply paste and bake it in the oven? much quicker...
>
simple. To get repeatable results, you need a time and temp controlled
oven that can heat up and cool down quickly (which means convection)
and programmed soak and bake cycles. The goal is to keep the board at
solder melting temp as short as possible to avoid destroying
components, while still getting 100% good soldered joints.
Steve
Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Fine soldering iron
2004-03-17 by Jeremy Taylor
I was just trying to keep him in budget.
Grinding a tip, then using a quality tip tinner has served me well in the
past, but alas these day I'm with you guys. I paid over $600 for my station
~used.
JT
Grinding a tip, then using a quality tip tinner has served me well in the
past, but alas these day I'm with you guys. I paid over $600 for my station
~used.
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil" <phil1960us@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 4:03 AM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Fine soldering iron
> that's certainly one approach. I think you will find a ground tip
> wont last that long. I went through a succession of cheap irons and
> finally got a temperature controller soldering station (hakko - $90
> including tax) and a couple of fine tips. very glad I did. You can
> get similar new for 70-80 and maybe cheaper if you shop around.
> here's a used hakko on ebay (same model I got) for about your price.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
> ViewItem&item=3803309151&category=58293 These come up a lot on ebay.
> They have a lot of tips (including very fine ones) for around $5 each.
>
> I really encourage you to not skimp on an iron - a good one will last
> a long time. cheap out and not only will soldering be harder but you
> will replace it in a year or less.
>
> By the way, there is a technique for soldering qfps and other fine
> pitch devices that doesn't use a fine tip iron - you just slather on
> the solder and use wick to clean the bridges. People claim to have
> gotten good enough to not require any wick. I found it by googling
> for the obvious keywords.
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Jeremy Taylor" <jt@j...> wrote:
> > Get a cheap iron and grind the tip
> > Or the "economy" weller station can use the full line of st tips,
> but that
> > be closer to 60-70 w/shipping.w/ a extra tip
> > http://www.mouser.com/catalog/617/1183.pdf
> > (at the bottom right of the page)
> >
> > JT
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Moore" <pminmo@c...>
> > To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 9:55 PM
> > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Fine soldering iron
> >
> >
> > > Want to hand solder 44pin qfp's. Need a new soldering iron that
> > > won't break the bank. (less than $50). Suggestions?
> > >
> > > Phil
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
> files:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Fine soldering iron
2004-03-17 by Phil
every tip I ever ground wound up with massive pits in it after maybe
2 hrs of total soldering time. My hakko has got probably 10X that
time and after one wipe on the wet sponge, it looks the same as the
day I bought it.
2 hrs of total soldering time. My hakko has got probably 10X that
time and after one wipe on the wet sponge, it looks the same as the
day I bought it.
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Jeremy Taylor" <jt@j...> wrote:
> I was just trying to keep him in budget.
> Grinding a tip, then using a quality tip tinner has served me well
in the
> past, but alas these day I'm with you guys. I paid over $600 for my
station
> ~used.
>
> JT
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phil" <phil1960us@y...>
> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 4:03 AM
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Fine soldering iron
>
>
> > that's certainly one approach. I think you will find a ground tip
> > wont last that long. I went through a succession of cheap irons
and
> > finally got a temperature controller soldering station (hakko -
$90
> > including tax) and a couple of fine tips. very glad I did. You
can
> > get similar new for 70-80 and maybe cheaper if you shop around.
> > here's a used hakko on ebay (same model I got) for about your
price.
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
> > ViewItem&item=3803309151&category=58293 These come up a lot on
ebay.
> > They have a lot of tips (including very fine ones) for around $5
each.
> >
> > I really encourage you to not skimp on an iron - a good one will
last
> > a long time. cheap out and not only will soldering be harder but
you
> > will replace it in a year or less.
> >
> > By the way, there is a technique for soldering qfps and other fine
> > pitch devices that doesn't use a fine tip iron - you just slather
on
> > the solder and use wick to clean the bridges. People claim to
have
> > gotten good enough to not require any wick. I found it by
googling
> > for the obvious keywords.
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Jeremy Taylor" <jt@j...>
wrote:
> > > Get a cheap iron and grind the tip
> > > Or the "economy" weller station can use the full line of st
tips,
> > but that
> > > be closer to 60-70 w/shipping.w/ a extra tip
> > > http://www.mouser.com/catalog/617/1183.pdf
> > > (at the bottom right of the page)
> > >
> > > JT
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Moore" <pminmo@c...>
> > > To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 9:55 PM
> > > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Fine soldering iron
> > >
> > >
> > > > Want to hand solder 44pin qfp's. Need a new soldering iron
that
> > > > won't break the bank. (less than $50). Suggestions?
> > > >
> > > > Phil
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks
and
> > files:
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
files:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Fine soldering iron
2004-03-17 by Stefan Trethan
>No i haven't done it on tqfp, only smd transistors and one 8 pin...
> Have you done this yet? I've followed the EZ Bake list and it's not so
> simple. To get repeatable results, you need a time and temp controlled
> oven that can heat up and cool down quickly (which means convection)
> and programmed soak and bake cycles. The goal is to keep the board at
> solder melting temp as short as possible to avoid destroying
> components, while still getting 100% good soldered joints.
>
> Steve
>
I used a professional oven then.
I described it some time ago, it seems very simple to build.
you do not want to have the oven heating up, you put the board in the
heated oven.
It is simple, you make a slot in the side and put two metal rails in.
on this rails you put a carriage. (the surface of the carriage i used was
some
kind of fabric but i guess fine steel mash would work too)
then you put some handle on the carriage...
You need to have two zones, one preheat and one soldering.
The preheat zone is just inside the oven, but is shielded by a piece
of sheetmetal from the heating. the temperature is somewhere aronud 100 to
150 degree
there. (you can find precise temperature curves on the www and even in
datasheets).
there is is a relatiely long time, i think 30 seconds (but the curves show
that too).
then you push it wider in, in the actual heating chamber. there is is only
a short time.
then out again and ready.
The preheat is important for two things:
a) less difference in actual soldering --> shorter
b) the flux is melted and dried. if you put the past
from cold to soldering temp the flux will virtually explode, resulting in
tiny beads
of tin which can cause big trouble.
The oven i used was very expensive i think, but i know for sure it did not
use a second heater
in the preheat. I would maybe build a second heater because it is much
easier to set the
temperature then. the manufacturer spend surely a lot of time adjusting
the preheat zone,
which saved a lot of money in the production. but if you build only one
unit it costs nearly
nothing to make a second heater.
I do not read the ez_bake, do they have such ovens with a sliding carriage?
i would not attempt it different, it was so easy with that professional
oven and i
think it is possible to get the same results with homebrew.
I think to avoid trouble you simply need to heat the pcb quick, which means
you need a oven which is already on temperature.
The reason i have not yet built one is that the solder paste is so
expensive and
i do not have a applicator. (and i do not often use narrow grid smd ics)
ST
Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Fine soldering iron
2004-03-17 by Stefan Trethan
On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:52:07 -0000, Phil <phil1960us@...> wrote:
there is solder with 2% copper in it out there, with that they last much
longer.
Has anyone thought of galvanizing a tip with iron?
I read the solder tips are iron coated, maybe it is possible to make that
at home for very special shapes...
Not information available on galvanizing on iron...
I wonder why this is not popular ;-)
ST
> every tip I ever ground wound up with massive pits in it after maybeI agree totally on this. bare copper tips are horrible...
> 2 hrs of total soldering time. My hakko has got probably 10X that
> time and after one wipe on the wet sponge, it looks the same as the
> day I bought it.
>
there is solder with 2% copper in it out there, with that they last much
longer.
Has anyone thought of galvanizing a tip with iron?
I read the solder tips are iron coated, maybe it is possible to make that
at home for very special shapes...
Not information available on galvanizing on iron...
I wonder why this is not popular ;-)
ST
Re: Fine soldering iron
2004-03-17 by javaguy11111
I have done several boards using solder paste and a cheap, non
convection toaster oven. My most recent was a LQFP176. I have not
lost a chip yet to excessive heat or popcorning. I sometimes have to
wick solder bridges, but that is easy.
You still should have a good soldering iron, but using smd's and a
toaster oven makes things much easier in my opinion.
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <alienrelics@y...>
wrote:
convection toaster oven. My most recent was a LQFP176. I have not
lost a chip yet to excessive heat or popcorning. I sometimes have to
wick solder bridges, but that is easy.
You still should have a good soldering iron, but using smd's and a
toaster oven makes things much easier in my opinion.
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <alienrelics@y...>
wrote:
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethanso
> <stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
> > On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 02:55:46 -0000, Moore <pminmo@c...> wrote:
> >
> > > Want to hand solder 44pin qfp's. Need a new soldering iron that
> > > won't break the bank. (less than $50). Suggestions?
>
> > Why not apply paste and bake it in the oven? much quicker...
> >
>
> Have you done this yet? I've followed the EZ Bake list and it's not
> simple. To get repeatable results, you need a time and tempcontrolled
> oven that can heat up and cool down quickly (which means convection)at
> and programmed soak and bake cycles. The goal is to keep the board
> solder melting temp as short as possible to avoid destroying
> components, while still getting 100% good soldered joints.
>
> Steve
Re: Fine soldering iron
2004-03-17 by Phil
a new tip doesn't cost that much, that's probably why.
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:52:07 -0000, Phil <phil1960us@y...> wrote:maybe
>
> > every tip I ever ground wound up with massive pits in it after
> > 2 hrs of total soldering time. My hakko has got probably 10X thatthe
> > time and after one wipe on the wet sponge, it looks the same as
> > day I bought it.much
> >
>
>
> I agree totally on this. bare copper tips are horrible...
> there is solder with 2% copper in it out there, with that they last
> longer.make that
>
> Has anyone thought of galvanizing a tip with iron?
> I read the solder tips are iron coated, maybe it is possible to
> at home for very special shapes...
> Not information available on galvanizing on iron...
> I wonder why this is not popular ;-)
>
> ST
Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Fine soldering iron
2004-03-17 by Stefan Trethan
On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:08:42 -0000, Phil <phil1960us@...> wrote:
want to make a surface, it is what you have in most cases..
I would like it for special shaped custom built tips.
i wonder which chemical is needed to plate iron.
(and i wonder if it would be useable at all, if the coating
is really iron..)
ST
> a new tip doesn't cost that much, that's probably why.I meant it is not popular because iron is normally not what you
>
want to make a surface, it is what you have in most cases..
I would like it for special shaped custom built tips.
i wonder which chemical is needed to plate iron.
(and i wonder if it would be useable at all, if the coating
is really iron..)
ST
Re: Fine soldering iron
2004-03-18 by Ben H. Lanmon
I have several of the Hakko stations some ESD models and some
standard, they work great. If you do much work spending the extra
money on a Hakko or other type station is well worth it. Weller
make a station that is in your listed price range.
Normally filing down most tips is not a good idea, unless it is one
of the solid copper tips then you have to file them as they wear.
standard, they work great. If you do much work spending the extra
money on a Hakko or other type station is well worth it. Weller
make a station that is in your listed price range.
Normally filing down most tips is not a good idea, unless it is one
of the solid copper tips then you have to file them as they wear.
Re: Fine soldering iron
2004-03-18 by Ben H. Lanmon
> i wonder which chemical is needed to plate iron.Believe they call it Iron Clad. If you break the coating the tip
> (and i wonder if it would be useable at all, if the coating
> is really iron..)
will not last long.
I use to use the copper tips in my old Ungar (now owned by Weller)
irons, they worked great but did require reshaping with a file at
times. You had to keep it clean and tinned, but that is true for
any iron to work well.
Also think that the hollow tips provide faster reheating or recovery
time.
Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Fine soldering iron
2004-03-18 by Ron Amundson
Pace has some newer rework stations. Their rework units are probably half as
good as Metcals, and about 30% of the price. I wonder if they have a
soldering station that might fit your price range.
I use a Weller WTCPS that I got surplus years ago with a 0.015 tip. The tips
seems to last about four - six months, but I do a lot of soldering.
Ron
good as Metcals, and about 30% of the price. I wonder if they have a
soldering station that might fit your price range.
I use a Weller WTCPS that I got surplus years ago with a 0.015 tip. The tips
seems to last about four - six months, but I do a lot of soldering.
Ron
Re: Fine soldering iron
2004-03-18 by ghidera2000
I'm with the majority here. I started out with an "economy"
soldering iron and very quickly regretted it. Thing took centuries
to heat up and lost temp very quickly. I finally gave in and bought
a Weller WTCPT station. Not fancy, temperature control is in the
tips not on the station. The difference was staggering though, heats
up in < 1 minute, doesn't lose temperature when soldering. Has a
nice range of tips (which seem to last a LOOONG time).
As for the QFP - Some things I've read said that going with a fine
tip might actually be harder than going with a wide one. They said
go wide and solder several pins at once. Check for bridges when
you're done and remove with a soldering wick.
I haven't tried a QFP but I have tried some SOTs this way. Seems
that the solder rarely bridges unless you put loads of it on. Even
then I usually just turn the tip sideways and reheat one of the pins
and the bridge melts away in an instant.
Doesn't take a lot of practice to do this really. Thing is that I
usually have the fine tip on when I'm soldering SMT caps and
resistors etc and I can't be bothered to change tips (cool down
time) so i just do them one pin at a time.
soldering iron and very quickly regretted it. Thing took centuries
to heat up and lost temp very quickly. I finally gave in and bought
a Weller WTCPT station. Not fancy, temperature control is in the
tips not on the station. The difference was staggering though, heats
up in < 1 minute, doesn't lose temperature when soldering. Has a
nice range of tips (which seem to last a LOOONG time).
As for the QFP - Some things I've read said that going with a fine
tip might actually be harder than going with a wide one. They said
go wide and solder several pins at once. Check for bridges when
you're done and remove with a soldering wick.
I haven't tried a QFP but I have tried some SOTs this way. Seems
that the solder rarely bridges unless you put loads of it on. Even
then I usually just turn the tip sideways and reheat one of the pins
and the bridge melts away in an instant.
Doesn't take a lot of practice to do this really. Thing is that I
usually have the fine tip on when I'm soldering SMT caps and
resistors etc and I can't be bothered to change tips (cool down
time) so i just do them one pin at a time.
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Moore" <pminmo@c...> wrote:
> Want to hand solder 44pin qfp's. Need a new soldering iron that
> won't break the bank. (less than $50). Suggestions?
>
> Phil
Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Fine soldering iron
2004-03-18 by Stefan Trethan
Well, i have a ERSA 60W 24V iron with a homebrew station,
it measures the temperature in the heating element by it's resistance.
nut the best method, but it works very nicely for me.
i never measured the temp ripple under normal soldering condidtions but
if someone is interested i will do it (I'm a bit curious too)
It uses the tips which slide on the outside over the iron.
You can't compare this to a cheapo iron without temp. control.
(I have written about the importance of closed loop control in another
post)
It's worth more than the difference in costs...
You can change tips on this iron also when hot, just lift the spring with
pliers and slide the tip off. there are also special pliers for this job,
with a groove for gripping the tip, but any pliers will work fine.
never grip the business end with the pliers, you could destroy the coating.
I also agree on the "broad tip" thing, if you have the right amount of
solder
it works fine...
Just seen a old small oven/grill on the attic today while looking for
something else.
maybe when i find the time (and a cheap source for soldering paste) i will
actually build
the oven...
Any ideas how to apply the paste? I used a syringe with a hose to a
machine in school, there was a button
which caused the delivery of exactly the same amount each time at the tip.
the hose looked like a air hose, but i wonder if the compressibility is no
problem.
(May have been water or oil in there also)
any ideas how to build this?
Any ideas if / how this could be fitted to a cnc drill?
is it possible to make such a automated dispenser??
ST
(I'm talking of smd resistors / caps here, ics take a bead, no individual
dots)
On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:46:59 -0000, ghidera2000 <ghidera2000@...>
wrote:
it measures the temperature in the heating element by it's resistance.
nut the best method, but it works very nicely for me.
i never measured the temp ripple under normal soldering condidtions but
if someone is interested i will do it (I'm a bit curious too)
It uses the tips which slide on the outside over the iron.
You can't compare this to a cheapo iron without temp. control.
(I have written about the importance of closed loop control in another
post)
It's worth more than the difference in costs...
You can change tips on this iron also when hot, just lift the spring with
pliers and slide the tip off. there are also special pliers for this job,
with a groove for gripping the tip, but any pliers will work fine.
never grip the business end with the pliers, you could destroy the coating.
I also agree on the "broad tip" thing, if you have the right amount of
solder
it works fine...
Just seen a old small oven/grill on the attic today while looking for
something else.
maybe when i find the time (and a cheap source for soldering paste) i will
actually build
the oven...
Any ideas how to apply the paste? I used a syringe with a hose to a
machine in school, there was a button
which caused the delivery of exactly the same amount each time at the tip.
the hose looked like a air hose, but i wonder if the compressibility is no
problem.
(May have been water or oil in there also)
any ideas how to build this?
Any ideas if / how this could be fitted to a cnc drill?
is it possible to make such a automated dispenser??
ST
(I'm talking of smd resistors / caps here, ics take a bead, no individual
dots)
On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:46:59 -0000, ghidera2000 <ghidera2000@...>
wrote:
> I'm with the majority here. I started out with an "economy"
> soldering iron and very quickly regretted it. Thing took centuries
> to heat up and lost temp very quickly. I finally gave in and bought
> a Weller WTCPT station. Not fancy, temperature control is in the
> tips not on the station. The difference was staggering though, heats
> up in < 1 minute, doesn't lose temperature when soldering. Has a
> nice range of tips (which seem to last a LOOONG time).
>
> As for the QFP - Some things I've read said that going with a fine
> tip might actually be harder than going with a wide one. They said
> go wide and solder several pins at once. Check for bridges when
> you're done and remove with a soldering wick.
>
> I haven't tried a QFP but I have tried some SOTs this way. Seems
> that the solder rarely bridges unless you put loads of it on. Even
> then I usually just turn the tip sideways and reheat one of the pins
> and the bridge melts away in an instant.
>
> Doesn't take a lot of practice to do this really. Thing is that I
> usually have the fine tip on when I'm soldering SMT caps and
> resistors etc and I can't be bothered to change tips (cool down
> time) so i just do them one pin at a time.
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Moore" <pminmo@c...> wrote:
>> Want to hand solder 44pin qfp's. Need a new soldering iron that
>> won't break the bank. (less than $50). Suggestions?
>>
>> Phil
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Fine soldering iron
2004-03-18 by Steve
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
How about a leadscrew and stepper motor?
Steve
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
> Well, i have a ERSA 60W 24V iron with a homebrew station,Did you build the temperature control part, then?
> it measures the temperature in the heating element by it's resistance.
> nut the best method, but it works very nicely for me.
> i never measured the temp ripple under normal soldering condidtions but
> if someone is interested i will do it (I'm a bit curious too)
>
> It uses the tips which slide on the outside over the iron.
> Just seen a old small oven/grill on the attic today while looking fori will
> something else.
> maybe when i find the time (and a cheap source for soldering paste)
> actually buildI really like the idea of a slide-through oven with a pre-heat chamber.
> the oven...
> Any ideas how to apply the paste? I used a syringe with a hose to athe tip.
> machine in school, there was a button
> which caused the delivery of exactly the same amount each time at
> the hose looked like a air hose, but i wonder if the compressibilityis no
> problem.Yes, I'd think compressability of air would rule it out.
> (May have been water or oil in there also)
How about a leadscrew and stepper motor?
Steve
Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Fine soldering iron
2004-03-18 by Johnathan Corgan
ghidera2000 wrote:
is a solder mask layer on the board, I never seem to get bridges.
Without the solder mask the bridges are much more likely but nothing a
little wicking won't remove (as you mentioned.)
Just remember that flux is your friend. "Be the flux."
Lately, though, I've noticed that there is sufficient solder finish on
the SMT pads from my proto manufacturer to just heat the pin while
applying slight pressure on the body of the part. The pad finish melts,
bonds to the pin, and it's done! I've done many 0805 parts and even a
couple VQ44 packages this way. It seems to work well electrically and
mechanically but I don't trust it that it could be so easy (these are of
course home projects so I don't have to worry about commercial
quality/reliability standards. Still.)
-Johnathan
> As for the QFP - Some things I've read said that going with a fineYep. The "solder blob swipe" technique works especially well when there
> tip might actually be harder than going with a wide one. They said
> go wide and solder several pins at once. Check for bridges when
> you're done and remove with a soldering wick.
>
> I haven't tried a QFP but I have tried some SOTs this way. Seems
> that the solder rarely bridges unless you put loads of it on. Even
> then I usually just turn the tip sideways and reheat one of the pins
> and the bridge melts away in an instant.
is a solder mask layer on the board, I never seem to get bridges.
Without the solder mask the bridges are much more likely but nothing a
little wicking won't remove (as you mentioned.)
Just remember that flux is your friend. "Be the flux."
Lately, though, I've noticed that there is sufficient solder finish on
the SMT pads from my proto manufacturer to just heat the pin while
applying slight pressure on the body of the part. The pad finish melts,
bonds to the pin, and it's done! I've done many 0805 parts and even a
couple VQ44 packages this way. It seems to work well electrically and
mechanically but I don't trust it that it could be so easy (these are of
course home projects so I don't have to worry about commercial
quality/reliability standards. Still.)
-Johnathan
Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Fine soldering iron
2004-03-18 by Stefan Trethan
>Yes i did build it, no i don't have the schematic anymore.
> Did you build the temperature control part, then?
Back engineering would work, it is not too hard.
it used a triac to switch the current, and there is a opamp
/ comparator somewhere. ther is also a led for voltage reference.
it has a display for temperature, which is so wildly inaccurate that
i do not use it (could calibrate it).
it can be built without the display too.
it is a simple control circuit, i could build it from scratch i think.
you have a potentiometer for setting the temperature you like. and a led
that blinks with the heating element. i added a piezo speaker which "ticks"
on each heating, sounds like a geiger counter but it doesn't let me forget
to switch it off (left it 2 times overnight before adding the ticker).
it is also a nice audible feedback if it is hot...
It was made some time ago in school. sorry i didn't keep the schematic.
(stupid i know...)
If one really needs to build one i draw it up from the pcb, it is not
too complicated.
However you need a 24V iron for it, which alone did cost 600ATS when i
built the
unit. (50 eur or so) now you can get complete stations for less (ok they
are bad..)
> I really like the idea of a slide-through oven with a pre-heat chamber.Me too. i think it is the only sensible approach.
>
even if you have a 3MW heating element ( ;-) ) then you would
still need to heat the air, the heating would take longer.
with a hot oven it is the fastest possible with air.
> Yes, I'd think compressability of air would rule it out.maybe a useable idea.
>
> How about a leadscrew and stepper motor?
the paste comes filled in a syringe already...
I wonder if it would work on a cnc to automatically dispense the
paste, if one can ensure that the dot comes out and sticks to the
pad, not the needle. with some tweaking it might work....
then add a pick and place ;-)
ST
Re: Fine soldering iron
2004-03-19 by gk_impala
Hello Stefan, Steve,
The way compressed air is used to dispense a paste, is to use a two-
way valve or two valves. First the valve is on comperssed air for a
specific time and pressure, providing the decided amount of paste.
Then the valve is switched to open air, so the pressure is released
instantly, so no drips anymore.
Important in this is that there is no air or gas pocket in the
syringe. The syringe will be normally airless for this reason if you
buy it.
A leadscrew will of course also work, but will make the system very
long and less practical to use.
Another option is a gearpump, dispensing the paste and then
eventually suck back to compensate for trapped air. But this is much
more complex.
Gertjan.
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
The way compressed air is used to dispense a paste, is to use a two-
way valve or two valves. First the valve is on comperssed air for a
specific time and pressure, providing the decided amount of paste.
Then the valve is switched to open air, so the pressure is released
instantly, so no drips anymore.
Important in this is that there is no air or gas pocket in the
syringe. The syringe will be normally airless for this reason if you
buy it.
A leadscrew will of course also work, but will make the system very
long and less practical to use.
Another option is a gearpump, dispensing the paste and then
eventually suck back to compensate for trapped air. But this is much
more complex.
Gertjan.
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
>think.
> >
> > Did you build the temperature control part, then?
>
> Yes i did build it, no i don't have the schematic anymore.
> Back engineering would work, it is not too hard.
> it used a triac to switch the current, and there is a opamp
> / comparator somewhere. ther is also a led for voltage reference.
> it has a display for temperature, which is so wildly inaccurate that
> i do not use it (could calibrate it).
> it can be built without the display too.
> it is a simple control circuit, i could build it from scratch i
> you have a potentiometer for setting the temperature you like. anda led
> that blinks with the heating element. i added a piezo speakerwhich "ticks"
> on each heating, sounds like a geiger counter but it doesn't let meforget
> to switch it off (left it 2 times overnight before adding theticker).
> it is also a nice audible feedback if it is hot...schematic.
>
>
> It was made some time ago in school. sorry i didn't keep the
> (stupid i know...)not
>
> If one really needs to build one i draw it up from the pcb, it is
> too complicated.when i
> However you need a 24V iron for it, which alone did cost 600ATS
> built thethey
> unit. (50 eur or so) now you can get complete stations for less (ok
> are bad..)chamber.
>
>
> > I really like the idea of a slide-through oven with a pre-heat
> >
>
> Me too. i think it is the only sensible approach.
> even if you have a 3MW heating element ( ;-) ) then you would
> still need to heat the air, the heating would take longer.
> with a hot oven it is the fastest possible with air.
>
>
>
> > Yes, I'd think compressability of air would rule it out.
> >
> > How about a leadscrew and stepper motor?
>
> maybe a useable idea.
> the paste comes filled in a syringe already...
>
> I wonder if it would work on a cnc to automatically dispense the
> paste, if one can ensure that the dot comes out and sticks to the
> pad, not the needle. with some tweaking it might work....
>
>
> then add a pick and place ;-)
>
> ST
Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Fine soldering iron
2004-03-19 by Stefan Trethan
On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:25:53 -0000, gk_impala <yahoo@...> wrote:
It sounded exactly like you describe it.
It works with the flowrate of the tip, i didn't think of that.
ST
> Hello Stefan, Steve,oh thanks, that's it.
>
> The way compressed air is used to dispense a paste, is to use a two-
> way valve or two valves. First the valve is on comperssed air for a
> specific time and pressure, providing the decided amount of paste.
> Then the valve is switched to open air, so the pressure is released
> instantly, so no drips anymore.
>
> Gertjan.
>
It sounded exactly like you describe it.
It works with the flowrate of the tip, i didn't think of that.
ST
Re: Fine soldering iron
2004-03-19 by Steve
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "gk_impala" <yahoo@i...> wrote:
Steve
> Hello Stefan, Steve,...
> A leadscrew will of course also work, but will make the system veryWhy long? A very small stepper may be sufficient.
> long and less practical to use.
Steve