Homebrew_PCBs

Hi to the Lists,

I generated this demo RS-274X (Gerber) file header from Tci, a French
PCB program (pardon my french). I've had some of the parms explained
before, and I have the Gerber spec, so I have some Idea of their use.
What's not obvious to me is how they expect one to go about parsing it.
I know it's in MM. The '*' are always end-of-block, which is fine. I
see '%' characters bracketing SOME of the blocks, but some at start and
some at end (suggests several blocks are "together"?). And This header
seems to use G04 (delay) as a comment?

I have a parser for Gcode, but this header stuff doesn't fit too good
(parser wise)!

It looks like "ADD 10 C 0.318" (spaces added) sets aperture #10 to a
circular pad, and "ADD 11 C 1.588 X 0.2" is for the traces. I can work
through it from the CAD PCB layout to get the numbers right, But this
all seems rather haphazard, IMO.

Any comments?

G04 format : xxx.xxx unité : millimètre *
%FSLAX33Y33*
MOMM*
OFA0B0*
SFA1B1*
IPPOS*%
G04 définition des ouvertures pour les pistes *
%ADD10C,0.318*%
G04 définition des ouvertures pour les pastilles rondes *
%ADD11C,1.588X0.2*%
G04 tracé du CI *

Alan KM6VV

Alan,
Two things! Run this past Dave Kush at:

http://www.calweb.com/users/d/dnjinca/


Also, have you played with the SCRIPTS that are in
Eagle. There is one there to turn a PCB drawing into a DXF. In
the Cad_Cam conference there used to be a script that made
a PCB drawing into GCode. I only played with the DXF one. I
abandoned Eagle because of the Traveling Salseman Syndrome.
Someone showed me how to use ACE to fix my drawing. I think
you use Vector.

John

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV <KM6VV@a...> wrote:
> Hi to the Lists,
>
> I generated this demo RS-274X (Gerber) file header from Tci, a
French
> PCB program (pardon my french). I've had some of the parms
explained
> before, and I have the Gerber spec, so I have some Idea of their
use.
> What's not obvious to me is how they expect one to go about parsing
it.
> I know it's in MM. The '*' are always end-of-block, which is
fine. I
> see '%' characters bracketing SOME of the blocks, but some at start
and
> some at end (suggests several blocks are "together"?). And This
header
> seems to use G04 (delay) as a comment?
>
> I have a parser for Gcode, but this header stuff doesn't fit too
good
> (parser wise)!
>
> It looks like "ADD 10 C 0.318" (spaces added) sets aperture #10 to a
> circular pad, and "ADD 11 C 1.588 X 0.2" is for the traces. I can
work
> through it from the CAD PCB layout to get the numbers right, But
this
> all seems rather haphazard, IMO.
>
> Any comments?
>
> G04 format : xxx.xxx unité : millimètre *
> %FSLAX33Y33*
> MOMM*
> OFA0B0*
> SFA1B1*
> IPPOS*%
> G04 définition des ouvertures pour les pistes *
> %ADD10C,0.318*%
> G04 définition des ouvertures pour les pastilles rondes *
> %ADD11C,1.588X0.2*%
> G04 tracé du CI *
>
> Alan KM6VV

Hi John,

I sent a copy to Dave, and I've been to his site per a previous
reference you made to him (His Mill Clone).

I have ran the Gcode script with Eagle, "isolation" or "outlines" I
think it's called. Yes, that provides a drop-in solution. My intent
was my own edification, and also to be able to take a Gerber file from
any PCB package (I had a friend with similar requirements say they tried
it, and ended up buying another product). The DXF output would also be
a place to start. I wasn't able to get Vector CAD/CAM to do offsets to
ALL my traces and pads automatically (from a DXF I imported to Vector),
so didn't go that way.

I played with TCi last night, WOW! What fun! I laid down 6 pads and a
few traces, stored the Gerber file, and ran it through my code. Instant
success! So there is a possible "quick and dirty" way to generate
simple board part programs. While this is too simple a board (not
representative), it does demonstrate (prove) the concept.

The "body" of the Gerber file generated was 6 blocks for my 6 pads
(D03), and 24 blocks for my 12 traces (D02). I generated a 54 line
Gcode program (using Vector CAD/CAM), which included 14 blocks for the
"rapids" needed. The program also included 8 blocks were arc's. 32 of
the blocks were G01 cuts. Again, this is too simple a design to
determine much, but it's not bad!

TSP? Too simple to tell, but I think Vector CAD/CAM helped on that. I
do COMPLETE isolations of each net (pads and traces connected together),
and don't attempt to minimize cuts by "sharing" between adjacent
traces. That's an interesting idea, however, and I have gathered from
your tit-for-tat board that adjacent traces an pads SHOULD share the
same isolation (although I'll continue to cut them twice).

Speaking of your posted board, what's on it? I see a DB25, a pair of
14-pin packages (open collector buffers, I suspect), pads for output,
and pads which I'd assume are for pull-up resistors and bypass caps. I
didn't find the board on your web site, do you still offer it? I'd be
curious to see the corresponding schematic. I doubt if I'll be building
it, but it would be a nice small test. I'm thinking of "laying it out"
with TCi, and maybe Eagle also, to see how it plots out!

Your isolation cuts for small pad's measure .1" I believe, and the
larger ones are .15". What dia's are you calling out for them? Also
the trace cuts are .05", what is their width? What tool dia do you use?

How are you optimizing your rapids (TSP)? I suppose I could add code to
my controller software to report the total length of rapids and cuts
(arc's?), and that would give me an idea. Also, I believe Vector
CAD/CAM can report the "time" for a part file. That might result in
some useful data.

Are you doing a drill file, like Epsilon? What format? I'd like to
take a look at it.

Alan KM6VV


crankorgan wrote:

>
> Alan,
> Two things! Run this past Dave Kush at:
>
> http://www.calweb.com/users/d/dnjinca/
>
> Also, have you played with the SCRIPTS that are in
> Eagle. There is one there to turn a PCB drawing into a DXF. In
> the Cad_Cam conference there used to be a script that made
> a PCB drawing into GCode. I only played with the DXF one. I
> abandoned Eagle because of the Traveling Salseman Syndrome.
> Someone showed me how to use ACE to fix my drawing. I think
> you use Vector.
>
> John
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV <KM6VV@a...> wrote:
> > Hi to the Lists,
> >
> > I generated this demo RS-274X (Gerber) file header from Tci, a
> French
> > PCB program (pardon my french). I've had some of the parms
> explained
> > before, and I have the Gerber spec, so I have some Idea of their
> use.
> > What's not obvious to me is how they expect one to go about parsing
> it.
> > I know it's in MM. The '*' are always end-of-block, which is
> fine. I
> > see '%' characters bracketing SOME of the blocks, but some at start
> and
> > some at end (suggests several blocks are "together"?). And This
> header
> > seems to use G04 (delay) as a comment?
> >
> > I have a parser for Gcode, but this header stuff doesn't fit too
> good
> > (parser wise)!
> >
> > It looks like "ADD 10 C 0.318" (spaces added) sets aperture #10 to a
> > circular pad, and "ADD 11 C 1.588 X 0.2" is for the traces. I can
> work
> > through it from the CAD PCB layout to get the numbers right, But
> this
> > all seems rather haphazard, IMO.
> >
> > Any comments?
> >
> > G04 format : xxx.xxx unité : millimètre *
> > %FSLAX33Y33*
> > MOMM*
> > OFA0B0*
> > SFA1B1*
> > IPPOS*%
> > G04 définition des ouvertures pour les pistes *
> > %ADD10C,0.318*%
> > G04 définition des ouvertures pour les pastilles rondes *
> > %ADD11C,1.588X0.2*%
> > G04 tracé du CI *
> >
> > Alan KM6VV

Hi Alan,
The Tit4Tat can run relays, stepping motors etc. It has
lots of outputs and several inputs. These type boards are used by
budding programers. Rather than just do a simple PCB layout I went
for making ARTWORK. In the old days the PCB traces were called
ARTWORK. When ICs came out the boards got ugly!
If you pull my DXF up in a Cad program using a .0125 Grid you
will see how I draw the traces and pads. I use a Mechanical Etching
bit from Think and Tinker. I put a picture of it in the KLEINBAUER
folder. I got the Piker 4x4 working but I am bogging down on the
rework. I am taking out extra cuts. Selling boards has become a real
mistake! There are so many people doing it. Like a fool I listened to
someone. Now I see there is a nice 3 axis controller board for only
$40 (Bare) L297/L289. My strength is in designing cheap CNC machines.
I was told to listen to my customers, bad idea.


John

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV <KM6VV@a...> wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> I sent a copy to Dave, and I've been to his site per a previous
> reference you made to him (His Mill Clone).
>
> I have ran the Gcode script with Eagle, "isolation" or "outlines" I
> think it's called. Yes, that provides a drop-in solution. My
intent
> was my own edification, and also to be able to take a Gerber file
from
> any PCB package (I had a friend with similar requirements say they
tried
> it, and ended up buying another product). The DXF output would
also be
> a place to start. I wasn't able to get Vector CAD/CAM to do
offsets to
> ALL my traces and pads automatically (from a DXF I imported to
Vector),
> so didn't go that way.
>
> I played with TCi last night, WOW! What fun! I laid down 6 pads
and a
> few traces, stored the Gerber file, and ran it through my code.
Instant
> success! So there is a possible "quick and dirty" way to generate
> simple board part programs. While this is too simple a board (not
> representative), it does demonstrate (prove) the concept.
>
> The "body" of the Gerber file generated was 6 blocks for my 6 pads
> (D03), and 24 blocks for my 12 traces (D02). I generated a 54 line
> Gcode program (using Vector CAD/CAM), which included 14 blocks for
the
> "rapids" needed. The program also included 8 blocks were arc's.
32 of
> the blocks were G01 cuts. Again, this is too simple a design to
> determine much, but it's not bad!
>
> TSP? Too simple to tell, but I think Vector CAD/CAM helped on
that. I
> do COMPLETE isolations of each net (pads and traces connected
together),
> and don't attempt to minimize cuts by "sharing" between adjacent
> traces. That's an interesting idea, however, and I have gathered
from
> your tit-for-tat board that adjacent traces an pads SHOULD share the
> same isolation (although I'll continue to cut them twice).
>
> Speaking of your posted board, what's on it? I see a DB25, a pair
of
> 14-pin packages (open collector buffers, I suspect), pads for
output,
> and pads which I'd assume are for pull-up resistors and bypass
caps. I
> didn't find the board on your web site, do you still offer it? I'd
be
> curious to see the corresponding schematic. I doubt if I'll be
building
> it, but it would be a nice small test. I'm thinking of "laying it
out"
> with TCi, and maybe Eagle also, to see how it plots out!
>
> Your isolation cuts for small pad's measure .1" I believe, and the
> larger ones are .15". What dia's are you calling out for them?
Also
> the trace cuts are .05", what is their width? What tool dia do you
use?
>
> How are you optimizing your rapids (TSP)? I suppose I could add
code to
> my controller software to report the total length of rapids and cuts
> (arc's?), and that would give me an idea. Also, I believe Vector
> CAD/CAM can report the "time" for a part file. That might result in
> some useful data.
>
> Are you doing a drill file, like Epsilon? What format? I'd like to
> take a look at it.
>
> Alan KM6VV
>
>
> crankorgan wrote:
> >
> > Alan,
> > Two things! Run this past Dave Kush at:
> >
> > http://www.calweb.com/users/d/dnjinca/
> >
> > Also, have you played with the SCRIPTS that are in
> > Eagle. There is one there to turn a PCB drawing into a DXF. In
> > the Cad_Cam conference there used to be a script that made
> > a PCB drawing into GCode. I only played with the DXF one. I
> > abandoned Eagle because of the Traveling Salseman Syndrome.
> > Someone showed me how to use ACE to fix my drawing. I think
> > you use Vector.
> >
> > John
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV <KM6VV@a...>
wrote:
> > > Hi to the Lists,
> > >
> > > I generated this demo RS-274X (Gerber) file header from Tci, a
> > French
> > > PCB program (pardon my french). I've had some of the parms
> > explained
> > > before, and I have the Gerber spec, so I have some Idea of their
> > use.
> > > What's not obvious to me is how they expect one to go about
parsing
> > it.
> > > I know it's in MM. The '*' are always end-of-block, which is
> > fine. I
> > > see '%' characters bracketing SOME of the blocks, but some at
start
> > and
> > > some at end (suggests several blocks are "together"?). And This
> > header
> > > seems to use G04 (delay) as a comment?
> > >
> > > I have a parser for Gcode, but this header stuff doesn't fit too
> > good
> > > (parser wise)!
> > >
> > > It looks like "ADD 10 C 0.318" (spaces added) sets aperture #10
to a
> > > circular pad, and "ADD 11 C 1.588 X 0.2" is for the traces. I
can
> > work
> > > through it from the CAD PCB layout to get the numbers right, But
> > this
> > > all seems rather haphazard, IMO.
> > >
> > > Any comments?
> > >
> > > G04 format : xxx.xxx unité : millimètre *
> > > %FSLAX33Y33*
> > > MOMM*
> > > OFA0B0*
> > > SFA1B1*
> > > IPPOS*%
> > > G04 définition des ouvertures pour les pistes *
> > > %ADD10C,0.318*%
> > > G04 définition des ouvertures pour les pastilles rondes *
> > > %ADD11C,1.588X0.2*%
> > > G04 tracé du CI *
> > >
> > > Alan KM6VV

Hi John,

Yeah, I remember when it was *Artwork* ! I'll try the .0125 grid. I
take it you don't necessarily want anyone building the tit-for-tat? I
suppose you posted it just for an example of your technique. I'll just
think up a little board I need to use as a test case. I DO need a
3-axis buffer/driver for some HP stepper drivers and motors. That would
entail a DB 25, 3 74LS06's, a few resistors, cap's and a terminal strip.

$40 for a 3-axis board w/plans? That sounds like Dan's board. Are you
selling yours for a similar price? Perhaps you need to design a
L297/L298 chopper driver board! If your unipolar's aren't chopped, they
can't produce as much power, and are less attractive to buyers. I've
got some cute little boards from the 70's, but as simple unipolar boards
driving old 8V SloSyn steppers, they don't have much performance!

Alan KM6VV


crankorgan wrote:

>
> Hi Alan,
> The Tit4Tat can run relays, stepping motors etc. It has
> lots of outputs and several inputs. These type boards are used by
> budding programers. Rather than just do a simple PCB layout I went
> for making ARTWORK. In the old days the PCB traces were called
> ARTWORK. When ICs came out the boards got ugly!
> If you pull my DXF up in a Cad program using a .0125 Grid you
> will see how I draw the traces and pads. I use a Mechanical Etching
> bit from Think and Tinker. I put a picture of it in the KLEINBAUER
> folder. I got the Piker 4x4 working but I am bogging down on the
> rework. I am taking out extra cuts. Selling boards has become a real
> mistake! There are so many people doing it. Like a fool I listened to
> someone. Now I see there is a nice 3 axis controller board for only
> $40 (Bare) L297/L289. My strength is in designing cheap CNC machines.
> I was told to listen to my customers, bad idea.
>
> John
>
>

Hi Alan,
I sell 4 axis unipolar controllers. They are heavy duty. I
kept getting asked to make a Bipolar board. So I added a L298 to my
design. A simple cheap board for experimentors. What it comes down to
is they save $10 buying my board while I loose hundreds designing and
debugging it. What I find is people are unable to find anything on
the internet. Maybe they use the wrong search engine. I was told when
people ask for something, make it avalible. I should have bought a
batch of Dan's boards and resold them! Now that a Business!
There are several people besides myself who sell unipolar
driver boards. A first mill only needs 12" per minute. A Dremel can
only handle 8" per minute with a 1/8" bit. Going 20" per minute with
a bed that is only 6" X 6" is insane for a beginner. Cheap unipolar
drivers can run cheap motors at 20" per minute. I myself only work at
6" per minute. But because my GCodes are very efficent, effectively I
am milling faster.
Mill a Tit 4 Tat and I will send you the instruction booklet
via Email. There is a photo of the board under How to Mill Circuit
boards.

John

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV <KM6VV@a...> wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> Yeah, I remember when it was *Artwork* ! I'll try the .0125 grid.
I
> take it you don't necessarily want anyone building the tit-for-
tat? I
> suppose you posted it just for an example of your technique. I'll
just
> think up a little board I need to use as a test case. I DO need a
> 3-axis buffer/driver for some HP stepper drivers and motors. That
would
> entail a DB 25, 3 74LS06's, a few resistors, cap's and a terminal
strip.
>
> $40 for a 3-axis board w/plans? That sounds like Dan's board. Are
you
> selling yours for a similar price? Perhaps you need to design a
> L297/L298 chopper driver board! If your unipolar's aren't chopped,
they
> can't produce as much power, and are less attractive to buyers.
I've
> got some cute little boards from the 70's, but as simple unipolar
boards
> driving old 8V SloSyn steppers, they don't have much performance!
>
> Alan KM6VV
>
>
> crankorgan wrote:
> >
> > Hi Alan,
> > The Tit4Tat can run relays, stepping motors etc. It has
> > lots of outputs and several inputs. These type boards are used by
> > budding programers. Rather than just do a simple PCB layout I went
> > for making ARTWORK. In the old days the PCB traces were called
> > ARTWORK. When ICs came out the boards got ugly!
> > If you pull my DXF up in a Cad program using a .0125 Grid you
> > will see how I draw the traces and pads. I use a Mechanical
Etching
> > bit from Think and Tinker. I put a picture of it in the KLEINBAUER
> > folder. I got the Piker 4x4 working but I am bogging down on the
> > rework. I am taking out extra cuts. Selling boards has become a
real
> > mistake! There are so many people doing it. Like a fool I
listened to
> > someone. Now I see there is a nice 3 axis controller board for
only
> > $40 (Bare) L297/L289. My strength is in designing cheap CNC
machines.
> > I was told to listen to my customers, bad idea.
> >
> > John
> >
> >

crankorgan wrote:

> What I find is people are unable to find anything on
> the internet. Maybe they use the wrong search engine.

I posted a complete design with PCB layout files and schematics at my
web site, during
the past years I have received 100's or emails from people that have
successfully built the
Modular Design, with or without the "Smart Current Monitor".

The design is Free... I do not charge anything for it..

When I get time I'm going to post a new design complete with EAGLE
files...

Hans W
http://hans-w.com






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Hans,
I have you listed on my links. I sent a few people your way.
They come back saying they want a simpler design or a premade board. I
won't get into the people who want a kit!
You were the first person on the net to list a L297/L298
design. Now there are lots of copycats.

John

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., hans@c... wrote:
> crankorgan wrote:
>
> > What I find is people are unable to find anything on
> > the internet. Maybe they use the wrong search engine.
>
> I posted a complete design with PCB layout files and schematics at
my
> web site, during
> the past years I have received 100's or emails from people that have
> successfully built the
> Modular Design, with or without the "Smart Current Monitor".
>
> The design is Free... I do not charge anything for it..
>
> When I get time I'm going to post a new design complete with EAGLE
> files...
>
> Hans W
> http://hans-w.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi John,

Yes, I can see that you've spent a lot of time and energy designing your
boards and mills. And writing manuals and preparing plans for projects
also takes considerable effort! Hopefully you will get to a point where
you CAN make a reasonable profit.

If your customers want something (and will pay for it), then you should
have a market. I do see a lot more boards and other CNC products
available then when I started.

I have several unipolar drivers, don't get me wrong. And for the
experimenter on a tight budget, they DO offer an advantage over the more
costly "modules". You're correct, high rapid's and feeds are not needed
by a hobbyist! Plus, unipolar drivers have the advantage that you are
less likely to "fry" them while you're learning! And it's FUN to see
what you can do with as little as possible! Anyone can lay out $5K or
whatever and buy a turnkey package. But to build and get it running
yourself, that's another story.

I currently have my Sherline set up for CNC milling (my PCB router is
not finished yet), so I think your board is a little too big for it.
I'll have to consider this a "paper" exercise, until such time as I can
cut the board. As I've said, I'm more interested in technique and some
"real" examples to compare to my Gerber/Gcode efforts. Knowing what
you've done on your board would help me to get my process (and program)
tested out. Thanks for the kind offer!

Alan KM6VV


crankorgan wrote:

>
> Hi Alan,
> I sell 4 axis unipolar controllers. They are heavy duty. I
> kept getting asked to make a Bipolar board. So I added a L298 to my
> design. A simple cheap board for experimentors. What it comes down to
> is they save $10 buying my board while I loose hundreds designing and
> debugging it. What I find is people are unable to find anything on
> the internet. Maybe they use the wrong search engine. I was told when
> people ask for something, make it avalible. I should have bought a
> batch of Dan's boards and resold them! Now that a Business!
> There are several people besides myself who sell unipolar
> driver boards. A first mill only needs 12" per minute. A Dremel can
> only handle 8" per minute with a 1/8" bit. Going 20" per minute with
> a bed that is only 6" X 6" is insane for a beginner. Cheap unipolar
> drivers can run cheap motors at 20" per minute. I myself only work at
> 6" per minute. But because my GCodes are very efficent, effectively I
> am milling faster.
> Mill a Tit 4 Tat and I will send you the instruction booklet
> via Email. There is a photo of the board under How to Mill Circuit
> boards.
>
> John

John,
Thanks... I published the design for that very reason, I needed to
replace some crap electronics that came with the mill and turned to the
data sheets and did it from there... with 20/20 hind site I could re-do
it and improve many features.
I have no problem with simpler designs, they have a place, trouble is
people out grow them very quickly...:-)
A while back I sent out a questionnaire asking a bunch of people what
they were willing to pay for a "good" set of boards, by good, I mean
solder mask and silk screen. Eventually I got 100% replies and the
result was the average they were willing to pay was in the order of $10
per board...
Well I can make them for less, but I can't pack and ship and keep books
and pay taxes for a simple $2-5 per board, I find my time is worth a lot
more than that, so I published it free of charge.... It costs me to do
that, and I have at least 5 cries for help every week ( I reply to all
of them )... That's the reason I want to re-do the layout, perhaps the
e-mail's will be less...
Anyway, as I said when I get time I will re-do the layout, PIA the PCB
layout program I used to use is fine, but I moved onto (via the crap
Easy PC, I never did sell it on eBay !) to EAGLE and find it to be a
very good program. BTW they now have a cheaper version for Hobby users
that does not restrict as much as the freee version.
I tend to agree with you outlook on design for the home/hobby person,
make it from stuff that can be gotten at Home Depot...

Anyway... I'm still interested in a simple way to through hole plate two
sided PCB's.... Every thing suggested so far has been a nightmare of
chemicals...

Best Regards
Hans W

crankorgan wrote:

> Hi Hans,
> I have you listed on my links. I sent a few people your way.
> They come back saying they want a simpler design or a premade board. I
>
> won't get into the people who want a kit!
> You were the first person on the net to list a L297/L298
> design. Now there are lots of copycats.
>
> John
>
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., hans@c... wrote:
> > crankorgan wrote:
> >
> > > What I find is people are unable to find anything on
> > > the internet. Maybe they use the wrong search engine.
> >
> > I posted a complete design with PCB layout files and schematics at
> my
> > web site, during
> > the past years I have received 100's or emails from people that have
>
> > successfully built the
> > Modular Design, with or without the "Smart Current Monitor".
> >
> > The design is Free... I do not charge anything for it..
> >
> > When I get time I'm going to post a new design complete with EAGLE
> > files...
> >
> > Hans W
> > http://hans-w.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Alan,
Mechanical Etching bits can only move .0004 to .0006" per
revolution of the spindle. This limits the machines that can make
circuit boards. I always get a laugh when I see an adapter to hold
a Dremel in a Bridgeport. A ton of power but not enough speed to
engrave or mill circuit boards. PCBMills run 15,000 to 30,000 rpms.
If you search the internet you will see a few test boards that
are milled. I have only seen a few real boards that are milled. There
is alot of talk about using dental bits. I use a bit that was
designed for milling circuit boards. The best you can hope for is 800
inches of copper per bit. People ask me about milling 12" by 12"
boards all the time. Good luck with that idea. Even a few traces on
a 12" by 12" board will add up to 800 inches very quickly. A 12"
trace is really 24" long.

John

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Alan Marconett KM6VV <KM6VV@a...> wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> Yes, I can see that you've spent a lot of time and energy designing
your
> boards and mills. And writing manuals and preparing plans for
projects
> also takes considerable effort! Hopefully you will get to a point
where
> you CAN make a reasonable profit.
>
> If your customers want something (and will pay for it), then you
should
> have a market. I do see a lot more boards and other CNC products
> available then when I started.
>
> I have several unipolar drivers, don't get me wrong. And for the
> experimenter on a tight budget, they DO offer an advantage over the
more
> costly "modules". You're correct, high rapid's and feeds are not
needed
> by a hobbyist! Plus, unipolar drivers have the advantage that you
are
> less likely to "fry" them while you're learning! And it's FUN to
see
> what you can do with as little as possible! Anyone can lay out $5K
or
> whatever and buy a turnkey package. But to build and get it running
> yourself, that's another story.
>
> I currently have my Sherline set up for CNC milling (my PCB router
is
> not finished yet), so I think your board is a little too big for
it.
> I'll have to consider this a "paper" exercise, until such time as I
can
> cut the board. As I've said, I'm more interested in technique and
some
> "real" examples to compare to my Gerber/Gcode efforts. Knowing what
> you've done on your board would help me to get my process (and
program)
> tested out. Thanks for the kind offer!
>
> Alan KM6VV
>
>
> crankorgan wrote:
> >
> > Hi Alan,
> > I sell 4 axis unipolar controllers. They are heavy duty. I
> > kept getting asked to make a Bipolar board. So I added a L298 to
my
> > design. A simple cheap board for experimentors. What it comes
down to
> > is they save $10 buying my board while I loose hundreds designing
and
> > debugging it. What I find is people are unable to find anything on
> > the internet. Maybe they use the wrong search engine. I was told
when
> > people ask for something, make it avalible. I should have bought a
> > batch of Dan's boards and resold them! Now that a Business!
> > There are several people besides myself who sell unipolar
> > driver boards. A first mill only needs 12" per minute. A Dremel
can
> > only handle 8" per minute with a 1/8" bit. Going 20" per minute
with
> > a bed that is only 6" X 6" is insane for a beginner. Cheap
unipolar
> > drivers can run cheap motors at 20" per minute. I myself only
work at
> > 6" per minute. But because my GCodes are very efficent,
effectively I
> > am milling faster.
> > Mill a Tit 4 Tat and I will send you the instruction
booklet
> > via Email. There is a photo of the board under How to Mill Circuit
> > boards.
> >
> > John

Hans,
I just did a Hybrid board. It uses a 7486-7474 and a L298. It
is a single sided board. There is a need for a cheap controller that
will run four wire motors. Suddenly there is a shortage of 6 wire
unipolar motors. Just remember, printer cartridges are $31, NFL hats
are $29 but a PCBoard should only be $10.

John

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., hans@c... wrote:
> John,
> Thanks... I published the design for that very reason, I needed to
> replace some crap electronics that came with the mill and turned to
the
> data sheets and did it from there... with 20/20 hind site I could
re-do
> it and improve many features.
> I have no problem with simpler designs, they have a place, trouble
is
> people out grow them very quickly...:-)
> A while back I sent out a questionnaire asking a bunch of people
what
> they were willing to pay for a "good" set of boards, by good, I mean
> solder mask and silk screen. Eventually I got 100% replies and the
> result was the average they were willing to pay was in the order of
$10
> per board...
> Well I can make them for less, but I can't pack and ship and keep
books
> and pay taxes for a simple $2-5 per board, I find my time is worth
a lot
> more than that, so I published it free of charge.... It costs me to
do
> that, and I have at least 5 cries for help every week ( I reply to
all
> of them )... That's the reason I want to re-do the layout, perhaps
the
> e-mail's will be less...
> Anyway, as I said when I get time I will re-do the layout, PIA the
PCB
> layout program I used to use is fine, but I moved onto (via the crap
> Easy PC, I never did sell it on eBay !) to EAGLE and find it to be a
> very good program. BTW they now have a cheaper version for Hobby
users
> that does not restrict as much as the freee version.
> I tend to agree with you outlook on design for the home/hobby
person,
> make it from stuff that can be gotten at Home Depot...
>
> Anyway... I'm still interested in a simple way to through hole
plate two
> sided PCB's.... Every thing suggested so far has been a nightmare of
> chemicals...
>
> Best Regards
> Hans W
>
> crankorgan wrote:
>
> > Hi Hans,
> > I have you listed on my links. I sent a few people your
way.
> > They come back saying they want a simpler design or a premade
board. I
> >
> > won't get into the people who want a kit!
> > You were the first person on the net to list a L297/L298
> > design. Now there are lots of copycats.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., hans@c... wrote:
> > > crankorgan wrote:
> > >
> > > > What I find is people are unable to find anything on
> > > > the internet. Maybe they use the wrong search engine.
> > >
> > > I posted a complete design with PCB layout files and schematics
at
> > my
> > > web site, during
> > > the past years I have received 100's or emails from people that
have
> >
> > > successfully built the
> > > Modular Design, with or without the "Smart Current Monitor".
> > >
> > > The design is Free... I do not charge anything for it..
> > >
> > > When I get time I'm going to post a new design complete with
EAGLE
> > > files...
> > >
> > > Hans W
> > > http://hans-w.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Hans,

That's quite a nice project! I think I counted 8 layers in one of the
GBR files! And with over 20 apertures, I'll have to get a parser for
the header working! I think I can pick a layer or two with pads and
traces, and manually build an aperture table for some simple tests with
my code. I was able to see a lot of the "foil" layers by using some
aperture sizes I had defined previously for another (Eagle) demo board.

Thanks for the URL!

Alan KM6VV


hans@... wrote:

>
> crankorgan wrote:
>
> > What I find is people are unable to find anything on
> > the internet. Maybe they use the wrong search engine.
>
> I posted a complete design with PCB layout files and schematics at my
> web site, during
> the past years I have received 100's or emails from people that have
> successfully built the
> Modular Design, with or without the "Smart Current Monitor".
>
> The design is Free... I do not charge anything for it..
>
> When I get time I'm going to post a new design complete with EAGLE
> files...
>
> Hans W
> http://hans-w.com

Hi John,

I hadn't got the feed down to a calculation like that! I just made some
shorts cuts at slow speed to see what they'd look like. My first board
attempts will be with a Dremel! Later, I'll possibly get an air-driven
tool, if warranted. My PCB mill project is based on stuff I've
collected from surplus. Some ways w/ zero-backlash (I think)
leadscrews, some small steppers, some drivers (either MaxNC's board, or
a set like Gecko's). I just need the time to get it together (and the
design keeps on getting upgraded as I find new deals in surplus)!

Alan KM6VV


crankorgan wrote:

>
> Alan,
> Mechanical Etching bits can only move .0004 to .0006" per
> revolution of the spindle. This limits the machines that can make
> circuit boards. I always get a laugh when I see an adapter to hold
> a Dremel in a Bridgeport. A ton of power but not enough speed to
> engrave or mill circuit boards. PCBMills run 15,000 to 30,000 rpms.
> If you search the internet you will see a few test boards that
> are milled. I have only seen a few real boards that are milled. There
> is alot of talk about using dental bits. I use a bit that was
> designed for milling circuit boards. The best you can hope for is 800
> inches of copper per bit. People ask me about milling 12" by 12"
> boards all the time. Good luck with that idea. Even a few traces on
> a 12" by 12" board will add up to 800 inches very quickly. A 12"
> trace is really 24" long.
>
> John

Alan,
The Gerber files include "empty" layers. The Modular design is a two
sided PCB, simply discard the empty layers.
BTW I do not mill boards it's far too mauch work, I use Pre Sensitized
stock and exposure for 120 second using a GE 500W bulb,
then developing in a solution of Red Devil Lye, etch with Ferric
Chloride, the same Ferric Chloride I have been suing for 8 years !, most
people do not understand it, and they throw it away far too soon. Heck I
even use the same Red Devil Lye mixture until it's so green I can hardly
see the PCB developing.
.... I can make a two side board (without drilling) in about 45
minutes... 5 mill traces at 8 mill spacing are normal.
BTW mill bits, I wonder why mill bits wear out so quickly, after all
it's only copper! Could it be because people run the bit dry ? May be
people are not buying real mill bits...
I have a link at my site for a source of really good quality mill bits,
size down to 0.002" ( yes! 2 mil ) But 2 mil bits are not that cheap....

hansw


Alan Marconett KM6VV wrote:

> Hi Hans,
>
> That's quite a nice project! I think I counted 8 layers in one of the
>
> GBR files! And with over 20 apertures, I'll have to get a parser for
> the header working! I think I can pick a layer or two with pads and
> traces, and manually build an aperture table for some simple tests
> with
> my code. I was able to see a lot of the "foil" layers by using some
> aperture sizes I had defined previously for another (Eagle) demo
> board.
>
> Thanks for the URL!
>
> Alan KM6VV
>
>
> hans@... wrote:
> >
> > crankorgan wrote:
> >
> > > What I find is people are unable to find anything on
> > > the internet. Maybe they use the wrong search engine.
> >
> > I posted a complete design with PCB layout files and schematics at
> my
> > web site, during
> > the past years I have received 100's or emails from people that have
>
> > successfully built the
> > Modular Design, with or without the "Smart Current Monitor".
> >
> > The design is Free... I do not charge anything for it..
> >
> > When I get time I'm going to post a new design complete with EAGLE
> > files...
> >
> > Hans W
> > http://hans-w.com
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

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>
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>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hans.
When you mill a board, you hit the board material. The copper
is soft. The glass epoxy board is like sand paper to the bit. I
used to coat the board with motor oil before milling. It only helped
to keep the dust down. Lets face it, there is no easy way to make
PCBoards. Every method has its drawback.

John

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., hans@c... wrote:
> Alan,
> The Gerber files include "empty" layers. The Modular design is a two
> sided PCB, simply discard the empty layers.
> BTW I do not mill boards it's far too mauch work, I use Pre
Sensitized
> stock and exposure for 120 second using a GE 500W bulb,
> then developing in a solution of Red Devil Lye, etch with Ferric
> Chloride, the same Ferric Chloride I have been suing for 8 years !,
most
> people do not understand it, and they throw it away far too soon.
Heck I
> even use the same Red Devil Lye mixture until it's so green I can
hardly
> see the PCB developing.
> .... I can make a two side board (without drilling) in about 45
> minutes... 5 mill traces at 8 mill spacing are normal.
> BTW mill bits, I wonder why mill bits wear out so quickly, after all
> it's only copper! Could it be because people run the bit dry ? May
be
> people are not buying real mill bits...
> I have a link at my site for a source of really good quality mill
bits,
> size down to 0.002" ( yes! 2 mil ) But 2 mil bits are not that
cheap....
>
> hansw
>
>
> Alan Marconett KM6VV wrote:
>
> > Hi Hans,
> >
> > That's quite a nice project! I think I counted 8 layers in one
of the
> >
> > GBR files! And with over 20 apertures, I'll have to get a parser
for
> > the header working! I think I can pick a layer or two with pads
and
> > traces, and manually build an aperture table for some simple tests
> > with
> > my code. I was able to see a lot of the "foil" layers by using
some
> > aperture sizes I had defined previously for another (Eagle) demo
> > board.
> >
> > Thanks for the URL!
> >
> > Alan KM6VV
> >
> >
> > hans@c... wrote:
> > >
> > > crankorgan wrote:
> > >
> > > > What I find is people are unable to find anything on
> > > > the internet. Maybe they use the wrong search engine.
> > >
> > > I posted a complete design with PCB layout files and schematics
at
> > my
> > > web site, during
> > > the past years I have received 100's or emails from people that
have
> >
> > > successfully built the
> > > Modular Design, with or without the "Smart Current Monitor".
> > >
> > > The design is Free... I do not charge anything for it..
> > >
> > > When I get time I'm going to post a new design complete with
EAGLE
> > > files...
> > >
> > > Hans W
> > > http://hans-w.com
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Hans,

Yeah, I downloaded PCB editor, and looked at the board with it. I was
seeing the silk layer, as well as solder mask, I think. One layer was
solid! Perhaps there are duplicates of layers. Several seemed to have
pads and traces, more then two. But then, I cut and pasted out of the
97K file, to get each marked "layer" as a separate file (that's all my
program can handle). Perhaps some should have been combined.

I think the reason the mill bits wear out so quickly is that they are
cutting the glass-epoxy board. The copper probably isn't the problem!
I'm tempted to try just cutting a "resist" layer, and etching the final
(something I think John suggested). But I've got plenty to do before
then!

I've etched some small boards, many years ago, I'm just fixated on CNC
and milling a board! I can remember my first mouse and graphics board
(CGA). The first thing I wanted to do (did) was write a PCB layout
program! I think that first Logitec mouse and PC Paint program cost me
$300! For a IBM PC (before even the XT's).

The Eagle files would be nice. I'll check out the new release!

Alan KM6VV


hans@... wrote:

>
> Alan,
> The Gerber files include "empty" layers. The Modular design is a two
> sided PCB, simply discard the empty layers.
> BTW I do not mill boards it's far too mauch work, I use Pre Sensitized
> stock and exposure for 120 second using a GE 500W bulb,
> then developing in a solution of Red Devil Lye, etch with Ferric
> Chloride, the same Ferric Chloride I have been suing for 8 years !, most
> people do not understand it, and they throw it away far too soon. Heck I
> even use the same Red Devil Lye mixture until it's so green I can hardly
> see the PCB developing.
> .... I can make a two side board (without drilling) in about 45
> minutes... 5 mill traces at 8 mill spacing are normal.
> BTW mill bits, I wonder why mill bits wear out so quickly, after all
> it's only copper! Could it be because people run the bit dry ? May be
> people are not buying real mill bits...
> I have a link at my site for a source of really good quality mill bits,
> size down to 0.002" ( yes! 2 mil ) But 2 mil bits are not that cheap....
>
> hansw
>
> Alan Marconett KM6VV wrote:
>
> > Hi Hans,
> >
> > That's quite a nice project! I think I counted 8 layers in one of the
> >
> > GBR files! And with over 20 apertures, I'll have to get a parser for
> > the header working! I think I can pick a layer or two with pads and
> > traces, and manually build an aperture table for some simple tests
> > with
> > my code. I was able to see a lot of the "foil" layers by using some
> > aperture sizes I had defined previously for another (Eagle) demo
> > board.
> >
> > Thanks for the URL!
> >
> > Alan KM6VV
> >
> >
> > hans@... wrote:
> > >
> > > crankorgan wrote:
> > >
> > > > What I find is people are unable to find anything on
> > > > the internet. Maybe they use the wrong search engine.
> > >
> > > I posted a complete design with PCB layout files and schematics at
> > my
> > > web site, during
> > > the past years I have received 100's or emails from people that have
> >
> > > successfully built the
> > > Modular Design, with or without the "Smart Current Monitor".
> > >
> > > The design is Free... I do not charge anything for it..
> > >
> > > When I get time I'm going to post a new design complete with EAGLE
> > > files...
> > >
> > > Hans W
> > > http://hans-w.com

John,
OK ... I used to have the same problem with drills until I started using
solid carbide, It seems they never wear out.
Have you tried a 0.031" ball nosed mill in solid carbide, I feel sure it
will last a long long time...
Price is not that bad...
http://www.drilltechnology.com/drill/endmill/Micro_EndMills_2_Flutes_Ball_Nose.html

hansw

crankorgan wrote:

> Hans.
> When you mill a board, you hit the board material. The copper
> is soft. The glass epoxy board is like sand paper to the bit. I
> used to coat the board with motor oil before milling. It only helped
> to keep the dust down. Lets face it, there is no easy way to make
> PCBoards. Every method has its drawback.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., hans@c... wrote:
> > Alan,
> > The Gerber files include "empty" layers. The Modular design is a two
>
> > sided PCB, simply discard the empty layers.
> > BTW I do not mill boards it's far too mauch work, I use Pre
> Sensitized
> > stock and exposure for 120 second using a GE 500W bulb,
> > then developing in a solution of Red Devil Lye, etch with Ferric
> > Chloride, the same Ferric Chloride I have been suing for 8 years !,
> most
> > people do not understand it, and they throw it away far too soon.
> Heck I
> > even use the same Red Devil Lye mixture until it's so green I can
> hardly
> > see the PCB developing.
> > .... I can make a two side board (without drilling) in about 45
> > minutes... 5 mill traces at 8 mill spacing are normal.
> > BTW mill bits, I wonder why mill bits wear out so quickly, after all
>
> > it's only copper! Could it be because people run the bit dry ? May
> be
> > people are not buying real mill bits...
> > I have a link at my site for a source of really good quality mill
> bits,
> > size down to 0.002" ( yes! 2 mil ) But 2 mil bits are not that
> cheap....
> >
> > hansw
> >
> >
> > Alan Marconett KM6VV wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Hans,
> > >
> > > That's quite a nice project! I think I counted 8 layers in one
> of the
> > >
> > > GBR files! And with over 20 apertures, I'll have to get a parser
> for
> > > the header working! I think I can pick a layer or two with pads
> and
> > > traces, and manually build an aperture table for some simple tests
>
> > > with
> > > my code. I was able to see a lot of the "foil" layers by using
> some
> > > aperture sizes I had defined previously for another (Eagle) demo
> > > board.
> > >
> > > Thanks for the URL!
> > >
> > > Alan KM6VV
> > >
> > >
> > > hans@c... wrote:
> > > >
> > > > crankorgan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > What I find is people are unable to find anything on
> > > > > the internet. Maybe they use the wrong search engine.
> > > >
> > > > I posted a complete design with PCB layout files and schematics
> at
> > > my
> > > > web site, during
> > > > the past years I have received 100's or emails from people that
> have
> > >
> > > > successfully built the
> > > > Modular Design, with or without the "Smart Current Monitor".
> > > >
> > > > The design is Free... I do not charge anything for it..
> > > >
> > > > When I get time I'm going to post a new design complete with
> EAGLE
> > > > files...
> > > >
> > > > Hans W
> > > > http://hans-w.com
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

ADVERTISEMENT

>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hans,
I use micrograin carbide Mechanical Etching bits. Drilling is
one thing. Speed can be lower than 16,000 rpms. Dragging the bit
through the epoxy for 800 inches is something else. I contacted the
place you are a consultant for. They were unable to supply a milling
bit at that time for less than Think and Tinkers price. I tried all
kinds of tricks. I think if somebody made a different kind of board.
Something that is good for 50 volts or less. Use plastic instead of
glass epoxy.

John

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., hans@c... wrote:
> John,
> OK ... I used to have the same problem with drills until I started
using
> solid carbide, It seems they never wear out.
> Have you tried a 0.031" ball nosed mill in solid carbide, I feel
sure it
> will last a long long time...
> Price is not that bad...
>
http://www.drilltechnology.com/drill/endmill/Micro_EndMills_2_Flutes_B
all_Nose.html
>
> hansw
>
> crankorgan wrote:
>
> > Hans.
> > When you mill a board, you hit the board material. The copper
> > is soft. The glass epoxy board is like sand paper to the bit. I
> > used to coat the board with motor oil before milling. It only
helped
> > to keep the dust down. Lets face it, there is no easy way to make
> > PCBoards. Every method has its drawback.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., hans@c... wrote:
> > > Alan,
> > > The Gerber files include "empty" layers. The Modular design is
a two
> >
> > > sided PCB, simply discard the empty layers.
> > > BTW I do not mill boards it's far too mauch work, I use Pre
> > Sensitized
> > > stock and exposure for 120 second using a GE 500W bulb,
> > > then developing in a solution of Red Devil Lye, etch with Ferric
> > > Chloride, the same Ferric Chloride I have been suing for 8
years !,
> > most
> > > people do not understand it, and they throw it away far too
soon.
> > Heck I
> > > even use the same Red Devil Lye mixture until it's so green I
can
> > hardly
> > > see the PCB developing.
> > > .... I can make a two side board (without drilling) in about 45
> > > minutes... 5 mill traces at 8 mill spacing are normal.
> > > BTW mill bits, I wonder why mill bits wear out so quickly,
after all
> >
> > > it's only copper! Could it be because people run the bit dry ?
May
> > be
> > > people are not buying real mill bits...
> > > I have a link at my site for a source of really good quality
mill
> > bits,
> > > size down to 0.002" ( yes! 2 mil ) But 2 mil bits are not that
> > cheap....
> > >
> > > hansw
> > >
> > >
> > > Alan Marconett KM6VV wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Hans,
> > > >
> > > > That's quite a nice project! I think I counted 8 layers in
one
> > of the
> > > >
> > > > GBR files! And with over 20 apertures, I'll have to get a
parser
> > for
> > > > the header working! I think I can pick a layer or two with
pads
> > and
> > > > traces, and manually build an aperture table for some simple
tests
> >
> > > > with
> > > > my code. I was able to see a lot of the "foil" layers by
using
> > some
> > > > aperture sizes I had defined previously for another (Eagle)
demo
> > > > board.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the URL!
> > > >
> > > > Alan KM6VV
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > hans@c... wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > crankorgan wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > What I find is people are unable to find anything on
> > > > > > the internet. Maybe they use the wrong search engine.
> > > > >
> > > > > I posted a complete design with PCB layout files and
schematics
> > at
> > > > my
> > > > > web site, during
> > > > > the past years I have received 100's or emails from people
that
> > have
> > > >
> > > > > successfully built the
> > > > > Modular Design, with or without the "Smart Current Monitor".
> > > > >
> > > > > The design is Free... I do not charge anything for it..
> > > > >
> > > > > When I get time I'm going to post a new design complete with
> > EAGLE
> > > > > files...
> > > > >
> > > > > Hans W
> > > > > http://hans-w.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > ADVERTISEMENT
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

John,
OK how about paper board. !
hansw

crankorgan wrote:

> Hans,
> I use micrograin carbide Mechanical Etching bits. Drilling is
> one thing. Speed can be lower than 16,000 rpms. Dragging the bit
> through the epoxy for 800 inches is something else. I contacted the
> place you are a consultant for. They were unable to supply a milling
> bit at that time for less than Think and Tinkers price. I tried all
> kinds of tricks. I think if somebody made a different kind of board.
> Something that is good for 50 volts or less. Use plastic instead of
> glass epoxy.
>
> John
>
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., hans@c... wrote:
> > John,
> > OK ... I used to have the same problem with drills until I started
> using
> > solid carbide, It seems they never wear out.
> > Have you tried a 0.031" ball nosed mill in solid carbide, I feel
> sure it
> > will last a long long time...
> > Price is not that bad...
> >
> http://www.drilltechnology.com/drill/endmill/Micro_EndMills_2_Flutes_B
>
> all_Nose.html
> >
> > hansw
> >
> > crankorgan wrote:
> >
> > > Hans.
> > > When you mill a board, you hit the board material. The copper
>
> > > is soft. The glass epoxy board is like sand paper to the bit. I
> > > used to coat the board with motor oil before milling. It only
> helped
> > > to keep the dust down. Lets face it, there is no easy way to make
> > > PCBoards. Every method has its drawback.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., hans@c... wrote:
> > > > Alan,
> > > > The Gerber files include "empty" layers. The Modular design is
> a two
> > >
> > > > sided PCB, simply discard the empty layers.
> > > > BTW I do not mill boards it's far too mauch work, I use Pre
> > > Sensitized
> > > > stock and exposure for 120 second using a GE 500W bulb,
> > > > then developing in a solution of Red Devil Lye, etch with Ferric
>
> > > > Chloride, the same Ferric Chloride I have been suing for 8
> years !,
> > > most
> > > > people do not understand it, and they throw it away far too
> soon.
> > > Heck I
> > > > even use the same Red Devil Lye mixture until it's so green I
> can
> > > hardly
> > > > see the PCB developing.
> > > > .... I can make a two side board (without drilling) in about 45
> > > > minutes... 5 mill traces at 8 mill spacing are normal.
> > > > BTW mill bits, I wonder why mill bits wear out so quickly,
> after all
> > >
> > > > it's only copper! Could it be because people run the bit dry ?
> May
> > > be
> > > > people are not buying real mill bits...
> > > > I have a link at my site for a source of really good quality
> mill
> > > bits,
> > > > size down to 0.002" ( yes! 2 mil ) But 2 mil bits are not that
> > > cheap....
> > > >
> > > > hansw
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Alan Marconett KM6VV wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Hans,
> > > > >
> > > > > That's quite a nice project! I think I counted 8 layers in
> one
> > > of the
> > > > >
> > > > > GBR files! And with over 20 apertures, I'll have to get a
> parser
> > > for
> > > > > the header working! I think I can pick a layer or two with
> pads
> > > and
> > > > > traces, and manually build an aperture table for some simple
> tests
> > >
> > > > > with
> > > > > my code. I was able to see a lot of the "foil" layers by
> using
> > > some
> > > > > aperture sizes I had defined previously for another (Eagle)
> demo
> > > > > board.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for the URL!
> > > > >
> > > > > Alan KM6VV
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > hans@c... wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > crankorgan wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > What I find is people are unable to find anything on
> > > > > > > the internet. Maybe they use the wrong search engine.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I posted a complete design with PCB layout files and
> schematics
> > > at
> > > > > my
> > > > > > web site, during
> > > > > > the past years I have received 100's or emails from people
> that
> > > have
> > > > >
> > > > > > successfully built the
> > > > > > Modular Design, with or without the "Smart Current Monitor".
>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The design is Free... I do not charge anything for it..
> > > > > >
> > > > > > When I get time I'm going to post a new design complete with
>
> > > EAGLE
> > > > > > files...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hans W
> > > > > > http://hans-w.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > > ADVERTISEMENT
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > > Service.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

ADVERTISEMENT

>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Hans,
At this point I think any type board will work better than
what I am using. I found a source for 4" X 6" boards. All my designs
fit on a 4" X 6" board. If I were to use a larger board I could use
an autorouter to design my boards. I don't like the way the programs
use a two sided board when a single sided board with a few jumpers
will work.
What has done me in is I started making the traces share
borders. This cuts down on milling time and tool wear. The down side
is I obsess on the layout for days. An other problem is when I design
a 4 axis board, people stop buying the 3 axis. This has also happen
with some of my machines. I never seem to even break even. I loose
money on every board I sell. If I don't count the time spent I make a
couple of dollars. This is more than a hobby!

John

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., hans@c... wrote:
> John,
> OK how about paper board. !
> hansw
>
> crankorgan wrote:
>
> > Hans,
> > I use micrograin carbide Mechanical Etching bits. Drilling is
> > one thing. Speed can be lower than 16,000 rpms. Dragging the bit
> > through the epoxy for 800 inches is something else. I contacted
the
> > place you are a consultant for. They were unable to supply a
milling
> > bit at that time for less than Think and Tinkers price. I tried
all
> > kinds of tricks. I think if somebody made a different kind of
board.
> > Something that is good for 50 volts or less. Use plastic instead
of
> > glass epoxy.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., hans@c... wrote:
> > > John,
> > > OK ... I used to have the same problem with drills until I
started
> > using
> > > solid carbide, It seems they never wear out.
> > > Have you tried a 0.031" ball nosed mill in solid carbide, I feel
> > sure it
> > > will last a long long time...
> > > Price is not that bad...
> > >
> >
http://www.drilltechnology.com/drill/endmill/Micro_EndMills_2_Flutes_B
> >
> > all_Nose.html
> > >
> > > hansw
> > >
> > > crankorgan wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hans.
> > > > When you mill a board, you hit the board material. The
copper
> >
> > > > is soft. The glass epoxy board is like sand paper to the bit.
I
> > > > used to coat the board with motor oil before milling. It only
> > helped
> > > > to keep the dust down. Lets face it, there is no easy way to
make
> > > > PCBoards. Every method has its drawback.
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., hans@c... wrote:
> > > > > Alan,
> > > > > The Gerber files include "empty" layers. The Modular design
is
> > a two
> > > >
> > > > > sided PCB, simply discard the empty layers.
> > > > > BTW I do not mill boards it's far too mauch work, I use Pre
> > > > Sensitized
> > > > > stock and exposure for 120 second using a GE 500W bulb,
> > > > > then developing in a solution of Red Devil Lye, etch with
Ferric
> >
> > > > > Chloride, the same Ferric Chloride I have been suing for 8
> > years !,
> > > > most
> > > > > people do not understand it, and they throw it away far too
> > soon.
> > > > Heck I
> > > > > even use the same Red Devil Lye mixture until it's so green
I
> > can
> > > > hardly
> > > > > see the PCB developing.
> > > > > .... I can make a two side board (without drilling) in
about 45
> > > > > minutes... 5 mill traces at 8 mill spacing are normal.
> > > > > BTW mill bits, I wonder why mill bits wear out so quickly,
> > after all
> > > >
> > > > > it's only copper! Could it be because people run the bit
dry ?
> > May
> > > > be
> > > > > people are not buying real mill bits...
> > > > > I have a link at my site for a source of really good quality
> > mill
> > > > bits,
> > > > > size down to 0.002" ( yes! 2 mil ) But 2 mil bits are not
that
> > > > cheap....
> > > > >
> > > > > hansw
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Alan Marconett KM6VV wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Hans,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That's quite a nice project! I think I counted 8 layers
in
> > one
> > > > of the
> > > > > >
> > > > > > GBR files! And with over 20 apertures, I'll have to get a
> > parser
> > > > for
> > > > > > the header working! I think I can pick a layer or two
with
> > pads
> > > > and
> > > > > > traces, and manually build an aperture table for some
simple
> > tests
> > > >
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > my code. I was able to see a lot of the "foil" layers by
> > using
> > > > some
> > > > > > aperture sizes I had defined previously for another
(Eagle)
> > demo
> > > > > > board.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for the URL!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Alan KM6VV
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > hans@c... wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > crankorgan wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What I find is people are unable to find anything on
> > > > > > > > the internet. Maybe they use the wrong search engine.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I posted a complete design with PCB layout files and
> > schematics
> > > > at
> > > > > > my
> > > > > > > web site, during
> > > > > > > the past years I have received 100's or emails from
people
> > that
> > > > have
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > successfully built the
> > > > > > > Modular Design, with or without the "Smart Current
Monitor".
> >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The design is Free... I do not charge anything for it..
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > When I get time I'm going to post a new design complete
with
> >
> > > > EAGLE
> > > > > > > files...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hans W
> > > > > > > http://hans-w.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > > > ADVERTISEMENT
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of
> > > > Service.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > ADVERTISEMENT
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hans,

I use very tiny metal grommets to connect the 2 sides of the board. They
even leave room for mounting components through them if you get the right
size

Scott

----- Original Message -----
From: <hans@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Parser for RS-274X header.


> John,
> Thanks... I published the design for that very reason, I needed to
> replace some crap electronics that came with the mill and turned to the
> data sheets and did it from there... with 20/20 hind site I could re-do
> it and improve many features.
> I have no problem with simpler designs, they have a place, trouble is
> people out grow them very quickly...:-)
> A while back I sent out a questionnaire asking a bunch of people what
> they were willing to pay for a "good" set of boards, by good, I mean
> solder mask and silk screen. Eventually I got 100% replies and the
> result was the average they were willing to pay was in the order of $10
> per board...
> Well I can make them for less, but I can't pack and ship and keep books
> and pay taxes for a simple $2-5 per board, I find my time is worth a lot
> more than that, so I published it free of charge.... It costs me to do
> that, and I have at least 5 cries for help every week ( I reply to all
> of them )... That's the reason I want to re-do the layout, perhaps the
> e-mail's will be less...
> Anyway, as I said when I get time I will re-do the layout, PIA the PCB
> layout program I used to use is fine, but I moved onto (via the crap
> Easy PC, I never did sell it on eBay !) to EAGLE and find it to be a
> very good program. BTW they now have a cheaper version for Hobby users
> that does not restrict as much as the freee version.
> I tend to agree with you outlook on design for the home/hobby person,
> make it from stuff that can be gotten at Home Depot...
>
> Anyway... I'm still interested in a simple way to through hole plate two
> sided PCB's.... Every thing suggested so far has been a nightmare of
> chemicals...
>
> Best Regards
> Hans W
>
> crankorgan wrote:
>
> > Hi Hans,
> > I have you listed on my links. I sent a few people your way.
> > They come back saying they want a simpler design or a premade board. I
> >
> > won't get into the people who want a kit!
> > You were the first person on the net to list a L297/L298
> > design. Now there are lots of copycats.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., hans@c... wrote:
> > > crankorgan wrote:
> > >
> > > > What I find is people are unable to find anything on
> > > > the internet. Maybe they use the wrong search engine.
> > >
> > > I posted a complete design with PCB layout files and schematics at
> > my
> > > web site, during
> > > the past years I have received 100's or emails from people that have
> >
> > > successfully built the
> > > Modular Design, with or without the "Smart Current Monitor".
> > >
> > > The design is Free... I do not charge anything for it..
> > >
> > > When I get time I'm going to post a new design complete with EAGLE
> > > files...
> > >
> > > Hans W
> > > http://hans-w.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Scott,
Yes I use them also, recently got some samples from Mill-Max they are <
40 mil and can accept a standard IC leg .
I've been using "high" IC sockets for years and soldering top and
bottom. I also use the Harwin pins for Via's they are rather big
but very easy to use.
Through hole plated would be the best, but I know it's not possible
without a lot of chemicals and tanks and then the hassle of renewing
all.
hansw


Scott Hendershot wrote:

> Hans,
>
> I use very tiny metal grommets to connect the 2 sides of the board.
> They
> even leave room for mounting components through them if you get the
> right
> size
>
> Scott
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <hans@...>
> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 7:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Parser for RS-274X header.
>
>
> > John,
> > Thanks... I published the design for that very reason, I needed to
> > replace some crap electronics that came with the mill and turned to
> the
> > data sheets and did it from there... with 20/20 hind site I could
> re-do
> > it and improve many features.
> > I have no problem with simpler designs, they have a place, trouble
> is
> > people out grow them very quickly...:-)
> > A while back I sent out a questionnaire asking a bunch of people
> what
> > they were willing to pay for a "good" set of boards, by good, I mean
>
> > solder mask and silk screen. Eventually I got 100% replies and the
> > result was the average they were willing to pay was in the order of
> $10
> > per board...
> > Well I can make them for less, but I can't pack and ship and keep
> books
> > and pay taxes for a simple $2-5 per board, I find my time is worth a
> lot
> > more than that, so I published it free of charge.... It costs me to
> do
> > that, and I have at least 5 cries for help every week ( I reply to
> all
> > of them )... That's the reason I want to re-do the layout, perhaps
> the
> > e-mail's will be less...
> > Anyway, as I said when I get time I will re-do the layout, PIA the
> PCB
> > layout program I used to use is fine, but I moved onto (via the crap
>
> > Easy PC, I never did sell it on eBay !) to EAGLE and find it to be a
>
> > very good program. BTW they now have a cheaper version for Hobby
> users
> > that does not restrict as much as the freee version.
> > I tend to agree with you outlook on design for the home/hobby
> person,
> > make it from stuff that can be gotten at Home Depot...
> >
> > Anyway... I'm still interested in a simple way to through hole plate
> two
> > sided PCB's.... Every thing suggested so far has been a nightmare of
>
> > chemicals...
> >
> > Best Regards
> > Hans W
> >
> > crankorgan wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Hans,
> > > I have you listed on my links. I sent a few people your
> way.
> > > They come back saying they want a simpler design or a premade
> board. I
> > >
> > > won't get into the people who want a kit!
> > > You were the first person on the net to list a L297/L298
> > > design. Now there are lots of copycats.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., hans@c... wrote:
> > > > crankorgan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > What I find is people are unable to find anything on
> > > > > the internet. Maybe they use the wrong search engine.
> > > >
> > > > I posted a complete design with PCB layout files and schematics
> at
> > > my
> > > > web site, during
> > > > the past years I have received 100's or emails from people that
> have
> > >
> > > > successfully built the
> > > > Modular Design, with or without the "Smart Current Monitor".
> > > >
> > > > The design is Free... I do not charge anything for it..
> > > >
> > > > When I get time I'm going to post a new design complete with
> EAGLE
> > > > files...
> > > >
> > > > Hans W
> > > > http://hans-w.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I've had your site bookmarked for a while.

I don't see the PCB patterns up there anymore. Did you take them
down?

As far as people not finding things on the internet... I've seen a
-lot- of people post on lists asking for help finding this or that.
Sometimes they can't find it on the internet because they simply
don't know what are the correct words to search for. Sometimes they
are just too lazy to dig a bit.

Steve Greenfield

--- hans@... wrote:

> crankorgan wrote:
>
> > What I find is people are unable to find anything on
> > the internet. Maybe they use the wrong search engine.
>
> I posted a complete design with PCB layout files and schematics
> at my
> web site, during
> the past years I have received 100's or emails from people that
> have
> successfully built the
> Modular Design, with or without the "Smart Current Monitor".
>
> The design is Free... I do not charge anything for it..
>
> When I get time I'm going to post a new design complete with
> EAGLE
> files...
>
> Hans W
> http://hans-w.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com

Yes it's still on the Download page

http://hans-w.com/download.htm

hansw

Steve Greenfield wrote:

> I've had your site bookmarked for a while.
>
> I don't see the PCB patterns up there anymore. Did you take them
> down?
>
> As far as people not finding things on the internet... I've seen a
> -lot- of people post on lists asking for help finding this or that.
> Sometimes they can't find it on the internet because they simply
> don't know what are the correct words to search for. Sometimes they
> are just too lazy to dig a bit.
>
> Steve Greenfield
>
> --- hans@... wrote:
> > crankorgan wrote:
> >
> > > What I find is people are unable to find anything on
> > > the internet. Maybe they use the wrong search engine.
> >
> > I posted a complete design with PCB layout files and schematics
> > at my
> > web site, during
> > the past years I have received 100's or emails from people that
> > have
> > successfully built the
> > Modular Design, with or without the "Smart Current Monitor".
> >
> > The design is Free... I do not charge anything for it..
> >
> > When I get time I'm going to post a new design complete with
> > EAGLE
> > files...
> >
> > Hans W
> > http://hans-w.com
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
> http://health.yahoo.com
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

ADVERTISEMENT

>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Steve,
I took the diagrams down, they were causing confusion. I
was getting several requests for free plans every day! People could
not understand why I would not post my plans for free. There are
still a couple of sites who have free stuff. The Wood Dragon's site
has disappeared. You used to be able to watch him work on his
projects. I guess he moved on! I find some people want me to find
things for them. I tell them to check out the LINKS. Instead they get
nasty! I get lots of crazy emails, many with viruses attached. It's
very slow this month. I am taking a few days off. If things don't
pick back up I might not work on the next machine. I get a feeling
CNC is just a winter hobby.

John

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Steve Greenfield <alienrelics@y...> wrote:
> I've had your site bookmarked for a while.
>
> I don't see the PCB patterns up there anymore. Did you take them
> down?
>
> As far as people not finding things on the internet... I've seen a
> -lot- of people post on lists asking for help finding this or that.
> Sometimes they can't find it on the internet because they simply
> don't know what are the correct words to search for. Sometimes they
> are just too lazy to dig a bit.
>
> Steve Greenfield
>
> --- hans@c... wrote:
> > crankorgan wrote:
> >
> > > What I find is people are unable to find anything on
> > > the internet. Maybe they use the wrong search engine.
> >
> > I posted a complete design with PCB layout files and schematics
> > at my
> > web site, during
> > the past years I have received 100's or emails from people that
> > have
> > successfully built the
> > Modular Design, with or without the "Smart Current Monitor".
> >
> > The design is Free... I do not charge anything for it..
> >
> > When I get time I'm going to post a new design complete with
> > EAGLE
> > files...
> >
> > Hans W
> > http://hans-w.com
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
> http://health.yahoo.com

Oh, no, I meant I couldn't find the other gentleman's PCB files,
Hans, the ones he said he had for free download.

At this point I think I'd rather just pay for a PCB already made,
anyway.

Every once in a while someone gets on the PIC Basic list and wants
(demands) that everyone else do there work for them. One guy, when
told to look around the internet for examples, even had the nerve
to say he didn't have time to search for himself! Yow.

Steve Greenfield

--- crankorgan <john@...> wrote:

> Hi Steve,
> I took the diagrams down, they were causing confusion. I
> was getting several requests for free plans every day! People
> could
> not understand why I would not post my plans for free. There are
> still a couple of sites who have free stuff. The Wood Dragon's
> site
> has disappeared. You used to be able to watch him work on his
> projects. I guess he moved on! I find some people want me to find
>
> things for them. I tell them to check out the LINKS. Instead they
> get
> nasty! I get lots of crazy emails, many with viruses attached.
> It's
> very slow this month. I am taking a few days off. If things don't
>
> pick back up I might not work on the next machine. I get a
> feeling
> CNC is just a winter hobby.
>
> John
>
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Steve Greenfield <alienrelics@y...>
> wrote:
> > I've had your site bookmarked for a while.
> >
> > I don't see the PCB patterns up there anymore. Did you take
> them
> > down?
> >
> > As far as people not finding things on the internet... I've
> seen a
> > -lot- of people post on lists asking for help finding this or
> that.
> > Sometimes they can't find it on the internet because they
> simply
> > don't know what are the correct words to search for. Sometimes
> they
> > are just too lazy to dig a bit.
> >
> > Steve Greenfield
> >
> > --- hans@c... wrote:
> > > crankorgan wrote:
> > >
> > > > What I find is people are unable to find anything on
> > > > the internet. Maybe they use the wrong search engine.
> > >
> > > I posted a complete design with PCB layout files and
> schematics
> > > at my
> > > web site, during
> > > the past years I have received 100's or emails from people
> that
> > > have
> > > successfully built the
> > > Modular Design, with or without the "Smart Current Monitor".
> > >
> > > The design is Free... I do not charge anything for it..
> > >
> > > When I get time I'm going to post a new design complete with
> > > EAGLE
> > > files...
> > >
> > > Hans W
> > > http://hans-w.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com

Steve,
OK sorry about that....
hansw

Steve Greenfield wrote:

> Oh, no, I meant I couldn't find the other gentleman's PCB files,
> Hans, the ones he said he had for free download.
>
> At this point I think I'd rather just pay for a PCB already made,
> anyway.
>
> Every once in a while someone gets on the PIC Basic list and wants
> (demands) that everyone else do there work for them. One guy, when
> told to look around the internet for examples, even had the nerve
> to say he didn't have time to search for himself! Yow.
>
> Steve Greenfield
>
> --- crankorgan <john@...> wrote:
> > Hi Steve,
> > I took the diagrams down, they were causing confusion. I
> > was getting several requests for free plans every day! People
> > could
> > not understand why I would not post my plans for free. There are
> > still a couple of sites who have free stuff. The Wood Dragon's
> > site
> > has disappeared. You used to be able to watch him work on his
> > projects. I guess he moved on! I find some people want me to find
> >
> > things for them. I tell them to check out the LINKS. Instead they
> > get
> > nasty! I get lots of crazy emails, many with viruses attached.
> > It's
> > very slow this month. I am taking a few days off. If things don't
> >
> > pick back up I might not work on the next machine. I get a
> > feeling
> > CNC is just a winter hobby.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Steve Greenfield <alienrelics@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > I've had your site bookmarked for a while.
> > >
> > > I don't see the PCB patterns up there anymore. Did you take
> > them
> > > down?
> > >
> > > As far as people not finding things on the internet... I've
> > seen a
> > > -lot- of people post on lists asking for help finding this or
> > that.
> > > Sometimes they can't find it on the internet because they
> > simply
> > > don't know what are the correct words to search for. Sometimes
> > they
> > > are just too lazy to dig a bit.
> > >
> > > Steve Greenfield
> > >
> > > --- hans@c... wrote:
> > > > crankorgan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > What I find is people are unable to find anything on
> > > > > the internet. Maybe they use the wrong search engine.
> > > >
> > > > I posted a complete design with PCB layout files and
> > schematics
> > > > at my
> > > > web site, during
> > > > the past years I have received 100's or emails from people
> > that
> > > > have
> > > > successfully built the
> > > > Modular Design, with or without the "Smart Current Monitor".
> > > >
> > > > The design is Free... I do not charge anything for it..
> > > >
> > > > When I get time I'm going to post a new design complete with
> > > > EAGLE
> > > > files...
> > > >
> > > > Hans W
> > > > http://hans-w.com
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
> http://health.yahoo.com
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kind of ironic, isn't it? I can't find something in plain site(pun
intended) and I'm complaining about others not looking.

;')

Steve

--- hans@... wrote:

> Steve,
> OK sorry about that....
> hansw
>
> Steve Greenfield wrote:
>
> > Oh, no, I meant I couldn't find the other gentleman's PCB
> files,
> > Hans, the ones he said he had for free download.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com

Hi Steve,
I am unprepared for handling people. Over 20 people have
contacted me about making up a kit for my Brute design. I tell them
they can do it if, they sell a booklet with each kit. I only want the
profit from the booklet. A few days go by and they contact me
complaining about shipping and handling charges. I try to tell them
kits have very little profit. You have to buy parts in large
quantities in order to get them cheaper than the public can buy them.
Shipping and Handling is where companies make some of their profit.
As for boards....Dan has a 3 axis L297/298 board for sale. I
fell for the trap of building a BiPolar board. People kept claiming
nobody had a circuit board avalible. Free plans but no circuit board.
I went looking and found this one!

http://www.seanet.com/~dmauch/

Its tough to beat his price and design.


John

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Steve Greenfield <alienrelics@y...> wrote:
> Oh, no, I meant I couldn't find the other gentleman's PCB files,
> Hans, the ones he said he had for free download.
>
> At this point I think I'd rather just pay for a PCB already made,
> anyway.
>
> Every once in a while someone gets on the PIC Basic list and wants
> (demands) that everyone else do there work for them. One guy, when
> told to look around the internet for examples, even had the nerve
> to say he didn't have time to search for himself! Yow.
>
> Steve Greenfield
>
> --- crankorgan <john@k...> wrote:
> > Hi Steve,
> > I took the diagrams down, they were causing confusion. I
> > was getting several requests for free plans every day! People
> > could
> > not understand why I would not post my plans for free. There are
> > still a couple of sites who have free stuff. The Wood Dragon's
> > site
> > has disappeared. You used to be able to watch him work on his
> > projects. I guess he moved on! I find some people want me to find
> >
> > things for them. I tell them to check out the LINKS. Instead they
> > get
> > nasty! I get lots of crazy emails, many with viruses attached.
> > It's
> > very slow this month. I am taking a few days off. If things don't
> >
> > pick back up I might not work on the next machine. I get a
> > feeling
> > CNC is just a winter hobby.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Steve Greenfield <alienrelics@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > I've had your site bookmarked for a while.
> > >
> > > I don't see the PCB patterns up there anymore. Did you take
> > them
> > > down?
> > >
> > > As far as people not finding things on the internet... I've
> > seen a
> > > -lot- of people post on lists asking for help finding this or
> > that.
> > > Sometimes they can't find it on the internet because they
> > simply
> > > don't know what are the correct words to search for. Sometimes
> > they
> > > are just too lazy to dig a bit.
> > >
> > > Steve Greenfield
> > >
> > > --- hans@c... wrote:
> > > > crankorgan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > What I find is people are unable to find anything on
> > > > > the internet. Maybe they use the wrong search engine.
> > > >
> > > > I posted a complete design with PCB layout files and
> > schematics
> > > > at my
> > > > web site, during
> > > > the past years I have received 100's or emails from people
> > that
> > > > have
> > > > successfully built the
> > > > Modular Design, with or without the "Smart Current Monitor".
> > > >
> > > > The design is Free... I do not charge anything for it..
> > > >
> > > > When I get time I'm going to post a new design complete with
> > > > EAGLE
> > > > files...
> > > >
> > > > Hans W
> > > > http://hans-w.com
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
> http://health.yahoo.com

Hi Steve,

Hans has quite an elaborate Gcode and PCB file set for download. I just
downloaded it Thursday. Took a while to finally get to the correct
place to download. Multi layers for two sides, silk, etc. Also a
reference to a downloadable viewer for the PCB files.

Alan KM6VV


Steve Greenfield wrote:

>
> Oh, no, I meant I couldn't find the other gentleman's PCB files,
> Hans, the ones he said he had for free download.
>
> At this point I think I'd rather just pay for a PCB already made,
> anyway.
>
> Every once in a while someone gets on the PIC Basic list and wants
> (demands) that everyone else do there work for them. One guy, when
> told to look around the internet for examples, even had the nerve
> to say he didn't have time to search for himself! Yow.
>
> Steve Greenfield
>
> --- crankorgan <john@...> wrote:
> > Hi Steve,
> > I took the diagrams down, they were causing confusion. I
> > was getting several requests for free plans every day! People
> > could
> > not understand why I would not post my plans for free. There are
> > still a couple of sites who have free stuff. The Wood Dragon's
> > site
> > has disappeared. You used to be able to watch him work on his
> > projects. I guess he moved on! I find some people want me to find
> >
> > things for them. I tell them to check out the LINKS. Instead they
> > get
> > nasty! I get lots of crazy emails, many with viruses attached.
> > It's
> > very slow this month. I am taking a few days off. If things don't
> >
> > pick back up I might not work on the next machine. I get a
> > feeling
> > CNC is just a winter hobby.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Steve Greenfield <alienrelics@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > I've had your site bookmarked for a while.
> > >
> > > I don't see the PCB patterns up there anymore. Did you take
> > them
> > > down?
> > >
> > > As far as people not finding things on the internet... I've
> > seen a
> > > -lot- of people post on lists asking for help finding this or
> > that.
> > > Sometimes they can't find it on the internet because they
> > simply
> > > don't know what are the correct words to search for. Sometimes
> > they
> > > are just too lazy to dig a bit.
> > >
> > > Steve Greenfield
> > >
> > > --- hans@c... wrote:
> > > > crankorgan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > What I find is people are unable to find anything on
> > > > > the internet. Maybe they use the wrong search engine.
> > > >
> > > > I posted a complete design with PCB layout files and
> > schematics
> > > > at my
> > > > web site, during
> > > > the past years I have received 100's or emails from people
> > that
> > > > have
> > > > successfully built the
> > > > Modular Design, with or without the "Smart Current Monitor".
> > > >
> > > > The design is Free... I do not charge anything for it..
> > > >
> > > > When I get time I'm going to post a new design complete with
> > > > EAGLE
> > > > files...
> > > >
> > > > Hans W
> > > > http://hans-w.com
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
> http://health.yahoo.com
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/