Homebrew_PCBs

Well, having first used an HP 7445A Plotter and then switching to the
TT method, I noticed the ease in making a pcb with the TT method
especially with double sided boards. So I purchased a broken GBC 95P
laminator off of EBay for $20 dollars. I casted new gears and
installed a new thermal cut-off device and I had a functioning
laminator.

From my previous use of a clothing iron, i was using JetPrint Graphic
paper that was great because 98% of the traces were intact. However,
using this paper in my laminator was a bad idea because the heat from
the laminator was not enough to penetrate the paper. So in desperation
(and a stroke of ingenuity), I used a regular ol' sheet of paper and
the image was perfectly transfered. I think the reason why magazine
paper like "Time" gives good results is that it is glossy yet thin.

On a side note, I wonder what the fesiabilty is in constructing a
roll tinning machine similar to what Dave Hopkins described in a
previous post. Specifically, would it be worth it compared to
purchasing tinnit?

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 07:45:30 -0000, gmanca101 <gmanca101@...> wrote:

> Well, having first used an HP 7445A Plotter and then switching to the
> TT method, I noticed the ease in making a pcb with the TT method
> especially with double sided boards. So I purchased a broken GBC 95P
> laminator off of EBay for $20 dollars. I casted new gears and
> installed a new thermal cut-off device and I had a functioning
> laminator.
>
> From my previous use of a clothing iron, i was using JetPrint Graphic
> paper that was great because 98% of the traces were intact. However,
> using this paper in my laminator was a bad idea because the heat from
> the laminator was not enough to penetrate the paper. So in desperation
> (and a stroke of ingenuity), I used a regular ol' sheet of paper and
> the image was perfectly transfered. I think the reason why magazine
> paper like "Time" gives good results is that it is glossy yet thin.
>
> On a side note, I wonder what the fesiabilty is in constructing a
> roll tinning machine similar to what Dave Hopkins described in a
> previous post. Specifically, would it be worth it compared to
> purchasing tinnit?
>

I think you are very right with that.
the fuser only contacts a stripe at a time, the iron holds a big area hot.
you need to pass it much more often, and maybe even slower (to allow
heatup of the area).
then i think also the thick paper would work.
i have relatively thick paper myself, next time i will buy the lightest
with that coating.


I thought about the tinning machine too.
the size described it way too big for me.
i wondered if i couldn't make something hand-held, like a paint roller.
maybe a pieco of pipe, on bearings, heated by nicrome wire in it (with
cement filled).
or maybe even only heated by the hor air gun.

I made the following experiment:
piece of copper sheet, bent the one half round (radius about 5cm) the
other half was
cut in from the sides 1/3 of the width and then bent round,
(so you get 2 "pipes" 90 degree to each other).
then i have put the one pipe on the hot air gun, which heated the front
pipe (the bend was not completed
so the air can get into it.
Then i put solder on the front pipe.

i painted the pcb with colophony, and dragged the hot assembly over it.

Result:

Not very good.
Just dragging is not good i think, the rolling motion is really needed.

I think if one maybe takes a pipe and puts a strong handle on it (really
just like a paint roller)
and then you place the pcb on a flat, or even maybe slightly soft surface
then you can apply
much more pressure and it would work.

I also thought about keeping the roll tinned.
maybe a "brush" of litz wire on the top would do the trick.
if you always maintain a certain amount of solder in this brush it would
keep the roll tinned, or not?


Any thoughts welcome (but the construction of this machine is somewhere in
very far away future..)


ST

I found this pcb workshop site,
http://www.cia.com.au/rcsradio/makepcb9.txt, from Australia. All
though they describe im somewhat detail their roll tinning machine it
appears that the bottom roller is rubber? Is that possible? I know a
major deterant for me is the fact that the metal roller needed flux.
If the top rubber roller was not affected by solder, then why isnt it
possible to have the bottom one as well?

> Any thoughts welcome (but the construction of this machine is

somewhere in

> very far away future..)
>
>
> ST

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 09:28:08 -0000, gmanca101 <gmanca101@...> wrote:

> I found this pcb workshop site,
> http://www.cia.com.au/rcsradio/makepcb9.txt, from Australia. All
> though they describe im somewhat detail their roll tinning machine it
> appears that the bottom roller is rubber? Is that possible? I know a
> major deterant for me is the fact that the metal roller needed flux.
> If the top rubber roller was not affected by solder, then why isnt it
> possible to have the bottom one as well?
>

because of no roller is affected by solder no pcb will be affected too.
and then it will just come out hot.

(one roller carries the solder to the pcb)

ST

> I casted new gears and installed a new thermal cut-off device and
> I had a functioning laminator.

Do you know by any chance what the cuttoff temperature is of your
laminator now? I've got a cheap laminator, but it just doesn't work
that well. I think it's because it just plain doesn't get hot
enough. When I modified it to get hotter though, the heating
element fried. I'm using a fuser now and getting pretty good
results. The laminator would be nice though, as I wouldn't have to
manually feed it like the fuser.

You mentioned casting new gears too. What process did you use for
this? That sounds pretty impressive.

Thanks
Josh

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 19:40:53 -0000, joshdewinter <joshdewinter@...>
wrote:

>> I casted new gears and installed a new thermal cut-off device and
>> I had a functioning laminator.
>
> Do you know by any chance what the cuttoff temperature is of your
> laminator now? I've got a cheap laminator, but it just doesn't work
> that well. I think it's because it just plain doesn't get hot
> enough. When I modified it to get hotter though, the heating
> element fried. I'm using a fuser now and getting pretty good
> results. The laminator would be nice though, as I wouldn't have to
> manually feed it like the fuser.
>
> You mentioned casting new gears too. What process did you use for
> this? That sounds pretty impressive.
>
> Thanks
> Josh

you can motorize the fuser you know, just like it was in the printer.

I too am very interested in the casting, i would appreciate webpages
and conversation. this is maybe not the place, there are already some
other groups.
I have read a little already in the past, but i do not know where to get
the materials
(in the eu).

Josh, if you have a look at the existing groups and check them out, please
tell me which you think is suitable and join. i am interestid in "plastic
casting" mainly.
but i am too fascinated by aluminium casting, but this is more effort so
the plastic thing
would be fine for now (and i think better detail parts are easier
obtainable).
I will check them myself in a few days time maybe but if you do it before
i can save the time.

regards

Stefan

Hello,
My laminator is a GBC 95p with a thermal cut-off of 152 degrees
celcius. So thats like 305 degrees F. I wonder if you could bypass
the fuse and perhaps lower the resistance in the power resistors?

I made new gears by making a silicon rubber mold of the best original
gear. Then i just poured some liquid plastic, found from tap plastic,
into the mold and out came a gear.

As for your fuser, perhaps you could but a motor on one of the
rollers? You could make a gear/connector piece to make this possible.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:

> you can motorize the fuser you know, just like it was in the printer.
>
> I too am very interested in the casting, i would appreciate webpages
> and conversation. this is maybe not the place, there are already some
> other groups.
> I have read a little already in the past, but i do not know where to

get

> the materials
> (in the eu).
>
> Josh, if you have a look at the existing groups and check them out,

please

> tell me which you think is suitable and join. i am interestid in

"plastic

> casting" mainly.
> but i am too fascinated by aluminium casting, but this is more

effort so

> the plastic thing
> would be fine for now (and i think better detail parts are easier
> obtainable).
> I will check them myself in a few days time maybe but if you do it

before

> i can save the time.

I belong to the Yahoogroup Casting:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/casting/

And I'm list-owner of NW Propmasters:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nwpropmasters/

Being able to cast replacement or new parts can be a great time and
money saver.

Steve

> I made new gears by making a silicon rubber mold of the best

original

> gear. Then i just poured some liquid plastic, found from tap

plastic,

> into the mold and out came a gear.

Thanks for the info on the laminator and the plastic. I'm very
very curious about this plastic making method, and I'm going to
check out the casting newsgroup. Stephan are you over there already
too?
I know it's a little off topic, but can you tell me what these
products are exactly that you're using? Like the brand names of the
silicon and the tap plastic and where I might find them. Are they
art supplies, or more hardware/custom job shop type stuff?

Thanks very much for the info.

-Josh

Basically, the silicon mold is by Alumlite/Dow Corning. You see,
Alumlite purchases the Dow Corning MS III RTV Rubber compound and
then repackages it into consumer-friendly quanities. Here is there
website: http://www.alumilite.com/.

As for the liquid plastic itself, I am using a liquid resin compound
from TAP Plastic called, "Fast Casting Liquid Resin". Their site is
here:

You can purchase the items from the appropriate websites or you can
purchase the liquid plastic from your local TAP Plastic store and the
RTV Compound may(may) be purchased from a hobby shop. Also note that
Alumilite sells a liquid plastic compound but the cost is much more
then TAP Plastic's.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "joshdewinter"
<joshdewinter@y...> wrote:

>
> > I made new gears by making a silicon rubber mold of the best
> original
> > gear. Then i just poured some liquid plastic, found from tap
> plastic,
> > into the mold and out came a gear.
>
>
> Thanks for the info on the laminator and the plastic. I'm very
> very curious about this plastic making method, and I'm going to
> check out the casting newsgroup. Stephan are you over there

already

> too?
> I know it's a little off topic, but can you tell me what these
> products are exactly that you're using? Like the brand names of

the

> silicon and the tap plastic and where I might find them. Are they
> art supplies, or more hardware/custom job shop type stuff?
>
> Thanks very much for the info.
>
> -Josh

>
> Thanks for the info on the laminator and the plastic. I'm very
> very curious about this plastic making method, and I'm going to
> check out the casting newsgroup. Stephan are you over there already
> too?
> I know it's a little off topic, but can you tell me what these
> products are exactly that you're using? Like the brand names of the
> silicon and the tap plastic and where I might find them. Are they
> art supplies, or more hardware/custom job shop type stuff?
>
> Thanks very much for the info.
>
> -Josh
>
>
>

I'm over there and listening already...

I'll post a addition to your question asking if anyone knows where to get
the stuff
in Europe....

ST

> You can purchase the items from the appropriate websites or you can
> purchase the liquid plastic from your local TAP Plastic store and the
> RTV Compound may(may) be purchased from a hobby shop. Also note that

RTV is available from your local friendly autoparts store in a variety of
formulations (my store has it made by Locktite). It might be called 'liquid
gasket' or 'sealant'.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony Toft" <toftat@c...> wrote:

> > You can purchase the items from the appropriate websites or you can
> > purchase the liquid plastic from your local TAP Plastic store and the
> > RTV Compound may(may) be purchased from a hobby shop. Also note that
>
> RTV is available from your local friendly autoparts store in a

variety of

> formulations (my store has it made by Locktite). It might be called

'liquid

> gasket' or 'sealant'.

Are you speaking from experience? Casting RTV silicone is not the same
as sealant RTV silicone. I've had a couple of people tell me that
they've used a tube of air-cure silicone caulk to make molds, but I've
never seen one and every time I try it takes way too long to harden
(the reaction proceeds from the surface in contact with air) and welds
itself to the object unless you use so much mold release that you can
see the texture of it.

Check the links in NW_Propmasters list.

Josh, you've got a Tap Plastics not too far from you.

http://www.tapplastics.com

Steve

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "gmanca101" <gmanca101@y...>
wrote:

> Basically, the silicon mold is by Alumlite/Dow Corning. You see,
> Alumlite purchases the Dow Corning MS III RTV Rubber compound and
> then repackages it into consumer-friendly quanities. Here is there
> website: http://www.alumilite.com/.
>
> As for the liquid plastic itself, I am using a liquid resin

compound

> from TAP Plastic called, "Fast Casting Liquid Resin". Their site is
> here:
>
> You can purchase the items from the appropriate websites or you can
> purchase the liquid plastic from your local TAP Plastic store and

the

> RTV Compound may(may) be purchased from a hobby shop. Also note

that

> Alumilite sells a liquid plastic compound but the cost is much more
> then TAP Plastic's.
>

Thanks a lot for the info

-Josh

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "joshdewinter"
<joshdewinter@...> wrote:

>

Hi Josh

looking at the PHOTOS uploaded at this forum, I found one
from you that called my attention, but when I try to link to
a note, there is no connection at all, as if they were no note.

the photo shows a home Iron + a temperature meter + a laminator box,
and had following text
----------------------------------------------------
Josh's cheap laminator
Doing it cheap
By: joshdewinter

Posted: Jun 20, 2005
Resolution: 400 x 300
Size: 24 KB
----------------------------------------------------
do you still have the notes, please?????

thanks in advance
juan