Homebrew_PCBs

Hi All,

Anyone used toner transfer to do silkscreens? I've been lurking on this list
for quite some time, and just yesterday made my first PCB using the TT
method. It worked out really well! I used an ordinary clothes iron to
transfer the image to the PCB. I tried to use a laminator but it wouldn't
work, the toner wouldn't stick at all. My laminator has an adjustable
thermostat (max 140 deg C), is this hot enough? Anyway, the iron worked
great, very consistent. I was surprised because the board was fairly large
(270mm x 150mm).

Getting back on track here, I thought, why not use toner transfer for
silkscreens? So I gave it a shot, and it worked! You can see some photos at:
http://thompson.homedns.org/PCB The toner didn't stick very well in a few
places but I thought it was pretty good for a first attempt. I just cleaned
the board with a green kitchen pad before ironing on the artwork. I probably
should have roughed it up a bit to help the toner stick, I'll try that next
time. BTW, the printer I am using is a dodgy old OKI 4w LED "laser" printer
and magazine paper.

Also, thanks to Dal Wheeler for the great guide he has on his web page! It
helped me out.

Thanks,
Dean

Nice work!

I have been toying with the idea of using toner to put the 'silk screen'
layer, but usually I am too impatient and just want to put the
components onto the board and test it out so I don't bother, but seeing
the proffesional looking results of your effots I make take the time...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dean Thompson [mailto:deanthom@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 6:51 AM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] TT for silkscreens
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Anyone used toner transfer to do silkscreens? I've been
> lurking on this list for quite some time, and just yesterday
> made my first PCB using the TT method. It worked out really
> well! I used an ordinary clothes iron to transfer the image
> to the PCB. I tried to use a laminator but it wouldn't work,
> the toner wouldn't stick at all. My laminator has an
> adjustable thermostat (max 140 deg C), is this hot enough?
> Anyway, the iron worked great, very consistent. I was
> surprised because the board was fairly large (270mm x 150mm).
>
> Getting back on track here, I thought, why not use toner
> transfer for silkscreens? So I gave it a shot, and it worked!
> You can see some photos at: http://thompson.homedns.org/PCB
> The toner didn't stick very well in a few places but I
> thought it was pretty good for a first attempt. I just
> cleaned the board with a green kitchen pad before ironing on
> the artwork. I probably should have roughed it up a bit to
> help the toner stick, I'll try that next time. BTW, the
> printer I am using is a dodgy old OKI 4w LED "laser" printer
> and magazine paper.
>
> Also, thanks to Dal Wheeler for the great guide he has on his
> web page! It helped me out.
>
> Thanks,
> Dean
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks
> and files: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
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> I just cleaned the board with a
> green kitchen pad before ironing
> on the artwork. I probably
> should have roughed it up a bit
> to help the toner stick,
> I'll try that next time.

Uh... The Greeen scouring pad is often called Scotch-Bright and is a
plastic sandpaper.

It will grind away steel like any sandpaper. The white stuff is not
as common but will not gouge out plastics and paint like the green
pads.

The green pads are pleanty abrasive to grind away all the copper on a
board with an overly enthuastic 'polishing'

Just because it looks like plastic does not mean it cannot attack
steel. Many a non-stick pan was lost to the casual assumption that
because it was sold for cleaning 'dishes' that it is safe for
everything.

Dave

>trim<

> Getting back on track here, I thought, why not use toner transfer

for

> silkscreens? So I gave it a shot, and it worked! You can see some

photos at:

> http://thompson.homedns.org/PCB The toner didn't stick very well in

a few

> places but I thought it was pretty good for a first attempt. I just

cleaned

> the board with a green kitchen pad before ironing on the artwork. I

probably

> should have roughed it up a bit to help the toner stick, I'll try

that next

> time. BTW, the printer I am using is a dodgy old OKI 4w LED "laser"

printer

> and magazine paper.
>
> Also, thanks to Dal Wheeler for the great guide he has on his web

page! It

> helped me out.
>
> Thanks,
> Dean

That's pretty good results for a first time!
Did you do anything special for the large copper area? As I mentioned
in a recent post, when I print the large area, the toner isn't dark
enough and I have to go over it with a pen- or I get etch through
and 'pitting'.

I've been TT'ing component print layer for a while now. Somthng you
might want to try is "Jet PRINT PHOTO Multi Project Paper Gloss
Finish". Yes, it's made for inkjet printers. Yes, I run it through my
laser with no problems. It's not as good for the etch resist layer
because it tends to leave lots of pinholes in the toner. But it's
great for the component outlines because it releases *very* easily,
and doesn't leave all that fuzzy white paper bits. FWIW, this works
great on front panels too.

Two problems I havent been able to overcome:
I can't get a good layout transfer to the copper side of the board-
including the component side of a DS board. Seems the paper won't
conform to the uneven surface.

While you can wash toner off copper many times and try again, when I
tried that with the bare board it left toner impregnated ito the
fiberglass. Not smearing like I've seen when using acetone or lacuer
thinner (where the solvent attacks the board) but just a ghost of the
first attempt. Since then I've adopted a "it better be right the
first time" policy for the component print.

Good luck, and keep us posted.
-Denny

On Tue, 3 Feb 2004 21:51:26 +1000, Dean Thompson <deanthom@...>
wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Anyone used toner transfer to do silkscreens? I've been lurking on this
> list
> Dean
>

Nice one, i too wanted to try it for some time, but i am to impatient
to prepare the component outline (my libraries are not up to it now) and
then
i am too impatient to print it on when i want to see the board working.
but tt is definitely faster than plotting the outline.

I do not like the white paper residue, i can't see it (it is black then)
when i
pull it out of the water and i think if you "wet" it permanently with
clear acrylic
laquer it will be nice and black. (it will also prevent scratching).

i would have another suggestion for you: if you have trouble aligning the
sides
just remove the solder pad drawings from your component outline.
one would not notice it is out of alignment then.

well, i will go back to making the next board now.
still have the problems with tt not removed yet. i fear i will have to do
a series
of boards, with different temperatures and so on. if i have to do this
tedious job
i will measure and record all temperatures, times etc. maybe it saves one
of you time then.

ST

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Dean Thompson" <deanthom@d...>
wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Anyone used toner transfer to do silkscreens? I've been lurking on

this list

> for quite some time, and just yesterday made my first PCB using the TT
> method. It worked out really well! I used an ordinary clothes iron to
> transfer the image to the PCB. I tried to use a laminator but it

wouldn't

> work, the toner wouldn't stick at all. My laminator has an adjustable
> thermostat (max 140 deg C), is this hot enough?

Just googled- PnP Blue says 275 to 325F for an iron.
http://www.techniks.com/how_to.htm

And 300F is about 150C, so your laminator is not off if it were an
iron. Of course, the laminator has less time and mass to heat the board.

Temp converter:
http://www.globalrph.com/temperaturefc.cgi

> Getting back on track here, I thought, why not use toner transfer for
> silkscreens? So I gave it a shot, and it worked! You can see some

photos at:

> http://thompson.homedns.org/PCB The toner didn't stick very well in

a few

> places but I thought it was pretty good for a first attempt. I just

cleaned

> the board with a green kitchen pad before ironing on the artwork.

That pad does rough it up a bit. You must also use a degreaser. I've
used Comet scouring powder along with one of those plastic scouring pads.

Steve

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Dean Thompson"

> for quite some time, and just yesterday made my first PCB using the

TT

> method. It worked out really well! I used an ordinary clothes iron

to

> transfer the image to the PCB. I tried to use a laminator but it

wouldn't

> work, the toner wouldn't stick at all. My laminator has an

adjustable

> thermostat (max 140 deg C), is this hot enough? Anyway, the iron

worked

> great, very consistent. I was surprised because the board was

fairly large

> (270mm x 150mm).

I believe that should have been plenty hot enough. You should see
the toner begin to "tack" by the 4-5 pass on a board that size. Was
it 2oz clad? I remember that I did have to run them through the
laminator a few more times than normal when I ran a boards that
size. I had 1oz 6"x9" dual sided approx 18 times --lost count. When
I have a lot of copper or running 2oz I preheat the board with a
paint stripper heat gun to "get the ball rolling"(it also helps dry
out the board from my when I wash off the copper oxide/protective
coating just prior). I don't know if that really helps, but thats
the way I've been doing it and it seems to work. Anyway, your
results did turn out to be pretty darn good with the iron. I wished
my firsts were that nice!

> Also, thanks to Dal Wheeler for the great guide he has on his web

page! It

> helped me out.

I'm glad it helped! I'll have to mention puting on a silk layer in
the write up. I'm impatient so I don't normally do it, but looking
at your pictures makes me think that I should be.

BTW, what are you doing with that many relays?

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <alienrelics@y...>
wrote:

> And 300F is about 150C, so your laminator is not off if it were an
> iron. Of course, the laminator has less time and mass to heat the

board.

>
> Temp converter:
> http://www.globalrph.com/temperaturefc.cgi

You can also type "300F in C" in the google search field. It'll also
do some pretty obscure unit conversions.

O

> You can also type "300F in C" in the google search field. It'll also
> do some pretty obscure unit conversions.
>
>

That's nice, thanks.
i combination with the g <searchterm> in opera it is really useful...
i have to read what else google can convert....

ST

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "wheedal99" <wheedal@h...>
wrote:

> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <alienrelics@y...>
> wrote:
> > And 300F is about 150C, so your laminator is not off if it were an
> > iron. Of course, the laminator has less time and mass to heat the
> board.
> >
> > Temp converter:
> > http://www.globalrph.com/temperaturefc.cgi
>
> You can also type "300F in C" in the google search field. It'll

also

> do some pretty obscure unit conversions.

I use "2.6mm to inch" for my length conversions in Google.

Also, try typing in your phone number (770) 640-0034 and it will give
you the company or individual name and address. Great for finding a
restauraunt.

Dave

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "dkesterline" <desterline@t...>
wrote:

> I've been TT'ing component print layer for a while
> now. Somthng you might want to try is "Jet PRINT
> PHOTO Multi Project Paper Gloss Finish". Yes, it's
> made for inkjet printers. Yes, I run it through my
> laser with no problems. It's not as good for the
> etch resist layer because it tends to leave lots of
> pinholes in the toner. But it's great for the
> component outlines because it releases *very* easily,
> and doesn't leave all that fuzzy white paper bits.
> FWIW, this works great on front panels too.

Office Max has some (relatively) inexpensive glossy
and semi-gloss papers. I seem to recall it was about
$10 for 50-100 sheets (they also have some coated
inkjet paper for that or less).

In a pinch (like in the middle of the night) you can
actually MAKE paper that releases well...with a
mixture of starch and water (boiled...essentially
making something kind of like gravy). Paint it on
and iron the paper flat again after it's dried.

It's probably not worth the effort most of the time
but hey, I was bored and wanted to test to see if
it'd work :)

=====================================

> Two problems I havent been able to overcome:
> I can't get a good layout transfer to the copper side
> of the board-including the component side of a DS
> board. Seems the paper won't conform to the uneven
> surface.
> While you can wash toner off copper many times and
> try again, when I tried that with the bare board it
> left toner impregnated ito the fiberglass. Not
> smearing like I've seen when using acetone or lacuer
> thinner (where the solvent attacks the board) but
> just a ghost of the first attempt. Since then I've
> adopted a "it better be right the first time" policy
> for the component print.

It would be nice if there was a kit with a thick
white ink and rubber stamps :)

Oh, you MIGHT be able to get the paper to conform
better if you wet it just before you iron it on...
and then use a piece of cloth between the iron and
the paper to even out the pressure. Haven't tried
it...something I just thought up as I was babbling
here :)