Homebrew_PCBs

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "gmanca101" <gmanca101@y...> wrote:
> Hello, I noticed that laminators are being used for pcb's, but how
> reliable are they when it comes to doing double sided images? I was
> thinking if using two heating plates and "sandwiching" the copper
> clad with the images would be better? There should be less mis-
> alignment because there is no movement. Any ideas? Thanks, Genaro M.

> Funny you should mention that. I found a small hamburger cooker at a
> thrift store. Both sides are flat, black teflon coated. This is
> precisely what I was thinking about this.
>
> I was figuring I'll need better temp control than the crude

> in it now, and would need separate temp sensors on each side.
>
> I guess great minds think alike. ;')
>
> However, if you have a laminator it is made to heat both sides. My
> laminator is an older model that works great for its intended

> but just isn't up to the task of toner onto copper, at least not

> the toner in my Lexmark/IBM 4029.
>
> Steve
>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "gmanca101" <gmanca101@y...> wrote:
> It helps to have someone on the same page! See, I dont have a
> laminator. I was thinking about purchasing one but the problem is
> that 4 passes seems way too much movement in the images. I think
> that maybe buying a thrift grill and changing the thermostat is a
> good idea.

> Hello, I noticed that laminators are being used for pcb's, but how
> reliable are they when it comes to doing double sided images? I was
> thinking if using two heating plates and "sandwiching" the copper
> clad with the images would be better? There should be less mis-
> alignment because there is no movement. Any ideas? Thanks, Genaro M.

>Funny you should mention that. I found a small hamburger cooker at a
>thrift store. Both sides are flat, black teflon coated. This is
>precisely what I was thinking about this.
>
>I was figuring I'll need better temp control than the crude thermostat
>in it now, and would need separate temp sensors on each side.
>
>I guess great minds think alike. ;')
>
>However, if you have a laminator it is made to heat both sides. My
>laminator is an older model that works great for its intended purpose,
>but just isn't up to the task of toner onto copper, at least not with
>the toner in my Lexmark/IBM 4029.
>
>Steve
>
>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "gmanca101" <gmanca101@y...> wrote:
> > Hello, I noticed that laminators are being used for pcb's, but how
> > reliable are they when it comes to doing double sided images? I was
> > thinking if using two heating plates and "sandwiching" the copper
> > clad with the images would be better? There should be less mis-
> > alignment because there is no movement. Any ideas? Thanks, Genaro M.

> I thought about using the burger cooker, but couldn't find one at

> thrift store. So I built a small press of my own.
> I used a piece of "flexible heater" that I got from MSC and stuck

> aluminum plate.

> Hello, I noticed that laminators are being used for pcb's, but how
> reliable are they when it comes to doing double sided images? I was
> thinking if using two heating plates and "sandwiching" the copper
> clad with the images would be better? There should be less mis-
> alignment because there is no movement. Any ideas? Thanks, Genaro M.

> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > Hello, I noticed that laminators are being used for pcb's, but

> > reliable are they when it comes to doing double sided images? I

> > thinking if using two heating plates and "sandwiching" the copper
> > clad with the images would be better? There should be less mis-
> > alignment because there is no movement. Any ideas? Thanks, Genaro

>
> Nearly all my boards are 2 sided. Alignment isn't nearly as
> difficult as it may seem. If you put some alignment marks on your
> carrier paper and can see them with bright backlight, you can get

> pads to line up. I use a glue marker to fasten one edge of
> the "sandwich" and put the pcb in between. Insert the bound edge
> into the laminator first. Even on my Royal Sovereign NR900, the
> toner "tacks" down on the first pass. They don't move and

> in the additional passes. I normally use 40-20 mil vias pads and
> they line up pretty well over 95% of the time. The only problem

> had is if I got carried away with the glue. One time I got some

> on the outside of my sandwich and stuck the paper to the laminator
> roller. Even the small skew possible by the board thickness (paper
> might be pulled slightly to the top or the bottom) turns out to be

> non-event. The paper/pcb tends to align get centered when

> put into the laminator rollers.
>
> http://myweb.cableone.net/wheedal/pcb.htm
> http://myweb.cableone.net/wheedal/pcbconstruct/cpu3_7b.jpg
> is a 2 sided cpu board with a lot of @$&%*#!! drilled vias.
>
> As far as pressure plates, that should work in theory. I think in
> practice it may be difficult to get even pressure.

> I am spending lot's of time trying to find the best way of heating and
> pressing.
>
> There appears to be a distinct correlation b/w tempreture and pressure
> (paper being a given for the ezperiment). I won't mention humidity
> either.

> The other problem I have is that my boards are larger than an iron
> footprint. Iguess if my idea was to make a small board with heavy traces
> it would be trivial. With small board and SMD it would be also relatively
> easy. The problem starts with size. Just yesterday I tried moving from
> one end to the other end of the large board with fine traces and I made
> stops with iron every inch and stayed there for a minute and half, wool
> setting. Some places came up perfect, next to it pads were flattened
> (pressure issue?) and lsewhere I obviously did not laminate long enough.
> The good news is that where the ink stuck it did stuck like enamel. The
> links you are including and are fascinationg how he did it.
>

> One more thing: lamiantors require 12 to 15 passes... I want a better
> laminator. Just went thru an excercise with the heat press-worse than
> iron. Is there anybody knowledgeable to suggest how to control heat and
> pressure on large size PCBs. Oh, I even had my boards preheated. I use
> dmax pressure but probably not evenly.
>
> Mike
>

> On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 17:37:42 -0000, mikezcnc <marabu@c...> wrote:
>
> > I am spending lot's of time trying to find the best way of

> > pressing.
> >
> > There appears to be a distinct correlation b/w tempreture and

> > (paper being a given for the ezperiment). I won't mention

> > either.
>
> You want just enough pressure to make a good bond.
> too much and the tracks widen.
>
> I always use highest temp setting so far.
> will experiment when i have a other iron (with longer chord and no

> holes).
> I think above a certain temperature it works pretty well.
> There must be some upper border but with my iron it seems i don't

>
> > The other problem I have is that my boards are larger than an

> > footprint. Iguess if my idea was to make a small board with heavy

> > it would be trivial. With small board and SMD it would be also

> > easy. The problem starts with size. Just yesterday I tried moving

> > one end to the other end of the large board with fine traces and

> > stops with iron every inch and stayed there for a minute and

> > setting. Some places came up perfect, next to it pads were

> > (pressure issue?) and lsewhere I obviously did not laminate long

> > The good news is that where the ink stuck it did stuck like

> > links you are including and are fascinationg how he did it.
> >
> Which toner do you use and which darkness setting?
> For me short ironing works nearly as good as long.
> i use very light pressure, perhaps additional 10N to the weight of

> itself.
> But i mostly make boards smaller then the iron.
>
> First i put it on the whole surface for about 10 seconds.
> then i start at one side and go over the board slowly, continuously

> the curved edge.
> the hot aluminium leaves on the paper a print through of the

> toner areas.
> when i can see all areas with the light brown/yellow printthrough i

> is ok.
> if not i go over that place with the curved edge again.
> All with very light pressure.
>
> The whole process takes no longer than 30 seconds.
> I got better results with lighter pressure.
>
> I assume with that process i coud make larger boards too.
> i would first set the iron in the center for 10 seconds, and then

> offset all around until the whole board has had the 10 second

>
> (I think that gets the pcb up to temp.)
>
> then i would go with the curves edge over it like i do with small

> (i tilt the iron very slightly to get the pressure mostly on the

>
> How do you prepare your boards? (cleaning)
>
> Stefan
>
>
> > One more thing: lamiantors require 12 to 15 passes... I want a

> > laminator. Just went thru an excercise with the heat press-worse

> > iron. Is there anybody knowledgeable to suggest how to control

> > pressure on large size PCBs. Oh, I even had my boards preheated.

> > dmax pressure but probably not evenly.
> >
> > Mike
> >

> Stefan,
>
> Thank you for such an extensive description of your process. You nailed
> my problems: lousy printer, one iron only and the rest. I clean my board
> with acetone (to remove leftovers and I have always plenty of those,
> don't ask why...), then water with dishwasher soap, tehn sandpaper 600,
> then brillo pad with detergent. Then all is well flushed with water.
>
> Your process is interesting, but it takes s much time toand full
> attention. I am for the idea of Ron Peopeil: set it and forget it. Which
> brings me to another idea: chicken grill, just kidding. I agree with your
> supposition that higher temperature is more forgiving than lower and that
> two high pressure is not good for narrow traces.
>
> I ahve one of those $2 grills for hamburgers but their footpriny is just
> too small.
>
> The problem with iron is that I suspect that temperature is not evenly
> distributeed and therefore it must be set higher to compensate for the
> uneveness. However, that higher (than neccessary temperature -
> someone mentioned 130 being needed for fusing..) causes problems in areas
> with widened lines due to pressure. In other words the correct pressure
> and slightly higher temperature in one area becomes correct pressure and
> incorrect temperature in another, due to a temperature gradient within a
> PCB. My next trial will be a Singer iron press that I picked up from a
> garage sale 2 summers ago for this convenient moment of being able to
> laminate PCBs... Right now I am baking that PCB in an oven after I
> finished pizza and New Year's ham... Mike
>
>

> On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 03:33:46 -0000, mikezcnc <marabu@c...> wrote:
>
> > Stefan,
> >
> > Thank you for such an extensive description of your process. You

> > my problems: lousy printer, one iron only and the rest. I clean

> > with acetone (to remove leftovers and I have always plenty of

> > don't ask why...), then water with dishwasher soap, tehn

> > then brillo pad with detergent. Then all is well flushed with

> >
> > Your process is interesting, but it takes s much time toand full
> > attention. I am for the idea of Ron Peopeil: set it and forget

> > brings me to another idea: chicken grill, just kidding. I agree

> > supposition that higher temperature is more forgiving than lower

> > two high pressure is not good for narrow traces.
> >
> > I ahve one of those $2 grills for hamburgers but their footpriny

> > too small.
> >
> > The problem with iron is that I suspect that temperature is not

> > distributeed and therefore it must be set higher to compensate

> > uneveness. However, that higher (than neccessary temperature -
> > someone mentioned 130 being needed for fusing..) causes problems

> > with widened lines due to pressure. In other words the correct

> > and slightly higher temperature in one area becomes correct

> > incorrect temperature in another, due to a temperature gradient

> > PCB. My next trial will be a Singer iron press that I picked up

> > garage sale 2 summers ago for this convenient moment of being

> > laminate PCBs... Right now I am baking that PCB in an oven after

> > finished pizza and New Year's ham... Mike
> >
> >
>
> Hi
>
> In some dark corner i should have a iron press, maybe i try that..
>
> to the press ideas:
>
> PCBs are not compeltely flat ask the milling guys.
> If you have a flat plate (heated and press it against the pcb
> i doubt you get a even distribution of the pressure.
>
>
> you would need a flexible plate with flexible backing, which again

> you
> with much harder pressed edges.
>
>
> I can only speak from experience, my iron seems to be flat, but if

> press it on flat (without moving around with the curved edge)
> there are always areas that don't adhere.
>
>
> I will measure for you the distribution of the heat in an iron.
> But i strongly suspect that there is no more than 2° difference.
> (in a solid aluminium iron, not stainless steel sheetmetal coated

>
>
> I don't really experience your problems, i get fairly good results
> in a wide pressure range (and i suspect also in a wide temp. range)
>
> Stefan

On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 14:59:34 -0000, mikezcnc <eemikez@...> wrote:

> Hi Stefan,
>
> I tried baking in the oven and that is an insane process... Then I tried
> to use a 'flat grill' and I did get a great transfer in one area but
> hardly anything in another. The root cause seems to be what you said
> about 'flatness'. I bet I wolud never have any of the problems if my
> board was smaller than my iron. I'll read thru your psots and maybe thre
> is something I missed.
>
> What paper are you using? I am using HP high gloss laser paper.
>
>
> Happy New Year! Mike
>
>

> Mike,
>
> on the group homepage in the database section you can read which

> use.
> (you see i want to force you going there and looking at the

> there have already a few people added their results. thanks.
>
>
> Stefan
>
> On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 14:59:34 -0000, mikezcnc <eemikez@c...> wrote:
>
> > Hi Stefan,
> >
> > I tried baking in the oven and that is an insane process... Then

> > to use a 'flat grill' and I did get a great transfer in one area

> > hardly anything in another. The root cause seems to be what you

> > about 'flatness'. I bet I wolud never have any of the problems if

> > board was smaller than my iron. I'll read thru your psots and

> > is something I missed.
> >
> > What paper are you using? I am using HP high gloss laser paper.
> >
> >
> > Happy New Year! Mike
> >
> >

On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 17:17:37 -0000, mikezcnc <eemikez@...> wrote:

> Hi Stefan,
>
> Your patient guidance helped me to create a PCB using a tone transfer
> method. Look in the files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/files/Tone%
> 20Transfer_mikez/
>
> Since my latest post I was able to successfully iron the image and etch
> it. Yes, there are few small problems like shorts and missing tracks but
> overall comparing to what I had until today it is a 99.99 success rate.
>
> What helped me is your advice that pressure is not significant and that
> you had more success with low pressure. So did I. In fact, I can attribut
> my shorts to high pressure (before I understood what you really meant).
>
> The dark smear is from imprper washing of laser print with acetone: I
> rubed it into the board.
>
> Stefan, I am thrilled with that method. I was able to do the board from
> printo dry PCB under one hour and not ruching. Next time I can probably
> do it under 30 minutes. Thank you for all your help!!!
>
> Mike
>
>

> I'm very glad to hear it finally worked.
> I had some disencouraging results in the beginning too.
>
> I really think you will soon get rid of the problems you have now,

> only done a few boards with this method but the learning curve
> is very steep from the point of first useable results.
>
> I am now confident that i can have a 10 mil boards in a few minutes

> prectically
> no preparation.
>
> I'm just downloading your image from the files section.
> Isn't it a bit big?
>
> i have saved it as jpeg and uploaded to your folder
> it has only 100kbyte not 3mbyte as yours.
>
> Please delete the tiff image, the jpeg has no data loss and safes

> space.
>
> Stefan
>
>
>
> On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 17:17:37 -0000, mikezcnc <eemikez@c...> wrote:
>
> > Hi Stefan,
> >
> > Your patient guidance helped me to create a PCB using a tone

> > method. Look in the files section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/files/Tone%
> > 20Transfer_mikez/
> >
> > Since my latest post I was able to successfully iron the image

> > it. Yes, there are few small problems like shorts and missing

> > overall comparing to what I had until today it is a 99.99 success

> >
> > What helped me is your advice that pressure is not significant

> > you had more success with low pressure. So did I. In fact, I can

> > my shorts to high pressure (before I understood what you really

> >
> > The dark smear is from imprper washing of laser print with

> > rubed it into the board.
> >
> > Stefan, I am thrilled with that method. I was able to do the

> > printo dry PCB under one hour and not ruching. Next time I can

> > do it under 30 minutes. Thank you for all your help!!!
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >

> What i wanted to ask before the huge picture file diverted me:
>
> You wrote you used aceton for rubbing off the toner.
> In the blackened areas, did the acetone solve the epoxy and mix it

> toner?
> or what else?
> that looks not good and it would be a reason not to use acetone for
> rubbing.
> I use laquer thinner and had no such effects.
>
> I assume you use a cnc for drilling?
> if not guidance holes in the pads are good for centering the drill.
>
> But the board looks very well, big pads, very nice...
> One can see the places where the with is not constant, i had this

> before i used much less pressure.
>
> Which track with is this? ~0,4mm?
>
> you can easily go down with it once you have the toner transfer

> nicely.
> this gives you much easier routing....
>
> Stefan

> Done. What program are you using to resize the images?
>
> Mike

> Stefan,
>
> Yes, acetone was etching into the fiberglass. Paint thinner? I'll try it
> and it probably doesn't smell as bad. I hate acetone!

>
> The tracks are .015 ie 0.0281 which like you suspected: 0.4mm
>
> Do you know how I feel now, looking at that board? It would cost probably
> couple hundred bucks to have it done in an hour. I used to pay much more.
> The method is just incredible! Oh, how to get that pressure much more
> repatable and predictable?!!!!!

>
> Mike
>

> What i wanted to ask before the huge picture file diverted me:
>
> You wrote you used aceton for rubbing off the toner.
> In the blackened areas, did the acetone solve the epoxy and mix it with
> toner?
> or what else?
> that looks not good and it would be a reason not to use acetone for
> rubbing.
> I use laquer thinner and had no such effects.
>

>Please delete the tiff image, the jpeg has no data loss and safes

>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Art Eckstein <axtein@d...>
>wrote:
> > I thought about using the burger cooker, but couldn't find one at
>my local
> > thrift store. So I built a small press of my own.
> > I used a piece of "flexible heater" that I got from MSC and stuck
>it on an
> > aluminum plate.
>Hi Art,
>I´m interested to see how you did your *cooker*. I´m getting pretty
>tired of ironing as it is not so easy to get repetability.
>
>HNY wishes from Sweden
>
>Bengt

> Why do you jump to this from a little bit of black left on the board?
> You're likely using several times too much solvent if you're getting your
> board spotless. Or your board composition is different from his so is
> more slick and washes more easily. Or any of a half dozen other more
> sensible reasons than the acetone is melting the board to any degree
> worth noticing..
>
> Even if it actually did what you're guessing it wouldn't be a cause for
> concern at all since it evaporates fast and isn't going under the traces.
> But it's not, it's just drying and leaving the toner residue on the
> board.
>

>>> Yes, acetone was etching into the fiberglass. (from mike)

> >Please delete the tiff image, the jpeg has no data loss and safes LOADS
> of
> space.
>
> You should note for reference that JPEG is actually a lossy compression.
> Fine for general pictures like this but for anything you really need no
> degradation it's not the right format. Magnify a small section of the
> tiff and jpeg and you'll see zones in the jpeg edges, the hallmark of
> different data. Enlarge a JPEG beyond a certain point set by the
> compression level and it'll look terrible, the compression takes out the
> fine detail beyond a certain point. Doesn't matter for most pictures
> though.
>
>

>
>

> Stefan,
>
> Yes, acetone was etching into the fiberglass. Paint thinner? I'll try
> it and it probably doesn't smell as bad. I hate acetone!

>
> The tracks are .015 ie 0.0281 which like you suspected: 0.4mm
>
> Do you know how I feel now, looking at that board? It would cost
> probably couple hundred bucks to have it done in an hour. I used to
> pay much more. The method is just incredible! Oh, how to get that
> pressure much more repatable and predictable?!!!!!
>
> Mike

> Greetings Bengt
>
> Hope you have a Happy New Year and as requested, I have put

> page of how my press is assembled.
> This is a test unit so it is not "pretty", but so far appears to be
> functional. I will be doing further testing soon.

>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Art Eckstein <axtein@d...>
>wrote:
> > Greetings Bengt
> >
> > Hope you have a Happy New Year and as requested, I have put
>together a web
> > page of how my press is assembled.
> > This is a test unit so it is not "pretty", but so far appears to be
> > functional. I will be doing further testing soon.
>
>Greetings my friend,
>thanks for asking, it has been peaceful. Last night looking out over
>Stockholm and all the fireworks, very nice.
>
>This *prototype* of yours looks promising. I would like to hear more
>about your upcoming tests.
>
>Take care
>
>Bengt

> http://www.irfanview.com/
> is freeware (non commercial use).
>
> in "save as" choose jpg and if you want to change the compression

> the options button.
>
> jpg is good for photos (with many colors and irregular shapes)
>
> gif is good for line-art (like black/white pcb layout)
>
> this is due to the compression algorithms.
>
> don't use jpg for line art and don't use gif for photos - try it,

> see why.
>
>
> irfanview is also cool for scanning. there is crop selection and

> like resize/resample.
> It's just not made for drawing so you won't find a paintbrush in there.
> (and it's a very good image viewer which knows any image format you can
> imagine)
>
>
> Stefan

> Stefan Trethan wrote:
> > What i wanted to ask before the huge picture file diverted me:
> >
> > You wrote you used aceton for rubbing off the toner.
> > In the blackened areas, did the acetone solve the epoxy and mix it

> > toner?
> > or what else?
> > that looks not good and it would be a reason not to use acetone for
> > rubbing.
> > I use laquer thinner and had no such effects.
> >
> Why do you jump to this from a little bit of black left on the

> You're likely using several times too much solvent if you're getting
> your board spotless. Or your board composition is different from

> is more slick and washes more easily. Or any of a half dozen other

> sensible reasons than the acetone is melting the board to any degree
> worth noticing..

> Even if it actually did what you're guessing it wouldn't be a cause
> for concern at all since it evaporates fast and isn't going under the
> traces. But it's not, it's just drying and leaving the toner

> the board.

> >Please delete the tiff image, the jpeg has no data loss and safes
> LOADS of
> space.
>
> You should note for reference that JPEG is actually a lossy
> compression. Fine for general pictures like this but for anything you
> really need no degradation it's not the right format.

>
> It can cause problems, as toner generally contains carbon black which
> is conductive. In most circuits this may not cause a problem, but in
> high impedance and RF circuits it can very well cause problems.
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefan Trethan" <stefan_trethan@...>
To: <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Toner Transfer Method, comments on Mike's
pcb photo


>
> >
> > It can cause problems, as toner generally contains carbon black which
> > is conductive. In most circuits this may not cause a problem, but in
> > high impedance and RF circuits it can very well cause problems.
> >
>
> You can repair potentiometers with toner.
> I thought it is the iron powder acting as "developer"
> (transfers toner to photo drum)
>
> I didn't know that is carbon black?

In a previous existence I worked for Rank-Xerox (UK) and Xerox Research
(UK). Toner is basically a combination of carbon black and a thermo-plastic.

Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
Email: aqzf13@...
My low-cost Philips LPC210x ARM development system:
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller/lpc2104.html

> Hi all,
> just need trawlling through the old posts and stumbled across this old
> thread. I have been thinking a bit about how to heat the PCB to
> tranfer the toner and one idea that struck me was to make use of an
> induction hotplate.
>
> I figure that the induction hotplate on a low setting would heat the
> copper on the PCB and all that would be required to transfer the toner
> was a even pressure on onto the paper/toner.
>
> The heat would be localised to the copper only. I guess it would only
> be useful for smaller PCBs. Unfortunatly I lack the resources, i.e
> induction hot plate, to try this approach.
>
> Comments??
>
> Cheers
> David
>
>

> I'm not sure if the "kitchen stove" induction plates are anywhere

> uniform heating.
> I have none too, but maybe someone really will try?
> I don't think it would be too practical, but it is an idea, and i

> such experiments.
>
> ST

>> I'm not sure if the "kitchen stove" induction plates are anywhere
> near
>> uniform heating.
>> I have none too, but maybe someone really will try?
>> I don't think it would be too practical, but it is an idea, and i
> like
>> such experiments.
>>
>> ST
>
> Hi,
> forget that one it isnt a magnetical metal so it wil not work at all
>
> gr. Roel
>
>

> On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 11:32:46 -0000, roel_cnc <atmelletje@...> wrote:
>
>>> I'm not sure if the "kitchen stove" induction plates are anywhere
>> near
>>> uniform heating.
>>> I have none too, but maybe someone really will try?
>>> I don't think it would be too practical, but it is an idea, and i
>> like
>>> such experiments.
>>>
>>> ST
>>
>> Hi,
>> forget that one it isnt a magnetical metal so it wil not work at all
>>
>> gr. Roel
>>
>>
>
> Sure of that?
> Thought the induction plates work with eddy currents?
>
> ST
>

>>> Hi,
>>> forget that one it isnt a magnetical metal so it wil not work at all
>>>
>>> gr. Roel
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Sure of that?
>> Thought the induction plates work with eddy currents?
>>
>> ST
>>
>
> Seems those kitchen induction plates only work with iron (did some
> reading).
> Manufactureres say the plate checks if there is iron present and only
> then
> switches on the plate.
> so it will definitely not work with copper.
>
> ST
>

> Damn it, can't be true either?
> Most kitchen pots i have are stainless, not very ferromagnetic i

> or is this little bit enough for the induction plate? a magnet does

> stick (not even to the thick bottom).
>
> Looking forward to explanation.
>
>
> ST

> beleve me there must be a magnetical layer in the bottem of the pots
> or it wil not work.
> i had for over 5 years service and repear on those.(scholtés and atag)
> i stil have lots of new parts in stock hehehe:))
> gr Roel
>

> But how does it work then? with the stainless pots?
> I took a really strong magnet minutes ago and there was no force at all
> with the stainless
> pots. the bottom is very thick on some, but still no force at all.