Homebrew PCBs

Hi All,
 I just signed up here and have been reading various post. For years I have been using just a dry transfer
 method of making PCB by printing the image on normal laserjet paper using a LaserJet5L printer. I then
using a clothes iron to iron the image onto a scrubbed copper board. I  put water on the paper and mostly
steam off the paper with the iron. The results are fair so I have been looking at better ways to do this without
lots of photo chemicals. In searching I ran across this site which has a these film transfer sheets. 

http://www.pulsar.gs  (also www.dynaart.com)

In doing a web search I ran across a web-site that had a really negative review of these sheets claiming they
melt in a laser printer.. This would be bad.. Some post here indicate people here are using them with
good results..

My couple of questions are :
1. Do they really work and how well ? The claim of .006 seems pretty out there for this type of system.
   I would be happy with .030 results.

2. Is their "EQUIPMENT" Fab In A Box package system of a laminator, Break/shear, and a drill press a
    good deal and do they work ? I have been using a Large drill press for years which seems to work but
    is bulky. I have been using a bandsaw to cut the boards but it really dulls the blades. A thought on the small
    drill press would be to modify it for CNC down the road. Their "modified" laminator is $30 more than the
    same one from Officemax (or so it appears). If the "Mod" worth it ? Does anyone here have web pointers
    to the same type of equipment but cheaper.

I read in a previous post that someone was wanting to build a better agitator tank.
I have been using an older version of this agitator tank for etching the boards.

http://store.yahoo.com/webtronics/lowcosettans.html

It has worked well for me. It looks like the newer version has a hood and is sealed better
then the one I have.

Thanks in advanced,
Tom G :)

> 1. Do they really work and how well ? The claim of .006 seems 
pretty out there for this type of system.
>    I would be happy with .030 results.

I can get 6 mil with a bit of work and being really careful just 
using magazine paper.  I have no doubt it is possible with the 
specialty papers as claimed.  12 mil doesn't take any real thought 
any more; I use 8mil only if I'm in a tight layout --that takes a bit 
more care when producing the boards, but is most certainly doable.  
30 mil should be cake.  

 
> 2. Is their "EQUIPMENT" Fab In A Box package system of a laminator, 
Break/shear, and a drill press a
>     good deal and do they work ? I have been using a Large drill 
press for years which seems to work but
>     is bulky. I have been using a bandsaw to cut the boards but it 
really dulls the blades. A thought on the small
>     drill press would be to modify it for CNC down the road. 
Their "modified" laminator is $30 more than the
>     same one from Officemax (or so it appears). If the "Mod" worth 
it ? Does anyone here have web pointers
>     to the same type of equipment but cheaper.

The laminator makes it (at least for me) much easier to get 
consistant results when doing toner transfer.  You can get a cheaper 
laminator if you are willing to do a bit more work.  The dynart one 
is nice in that you know that particular model works for this 
intended purpose; not all laminators work equally well.  If you want 
to try a cheaper route consult the laminator database and check the 
archives for others reviews.

Good question. I was curious about it myself. Their price sheet is 
$1.50. I find it insane for a sheet of paper. I still have his Dynart 
supply that seems to be more chancy than regular paper. 
I urge caution due to snake oil fragrance.

Mike


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "wheedal99" <wheedal@h...> 
wrote:
> > 1. Do they really work and how well ? The claim of .006 seems 
> pretty out there for this type of system.
> >    I would be happy with .030 results.
> 
> I can get 6 mil with a bit of work and being really careful just 
> using magazine paper.  I have no doubt it is possible with the 
> specialty papers as claimed.  12 mil doesn't take any real thought 
> any more; I use 8mil only if I'm in a tight layout --that takes a 
bit 
> more care when producing the boards, but is most certainly doable.  
> 30 mil should be cake.  
> 
>  
> > 2. Is their "EQUIPMENT" Fab In A Box package system of a 
laminator, 
> Break/shear, and a drill press a
> >     good deal and do they work ? I have been using a Large drill 
> press for years which seems to work but
> >     is bulky. I have been using a bandsaw to cut the boards but 
it 
> really dulls the blades. A thought on the small
> >     drill press would be to modify it for CNC down the road. 
> Their "modified" laminator is $30 more than the
> >     same one from Officemax (or so it appears). If the "Mod" 
worth 
> it ? Does anyone here have web pointers
> >     to the same type of equipment but cheaper.
> 
> The laminator makes it (at least for me) much easier to get 
> consistant results when doing toner transfer.  You can get a 
cheaper 
> laminator if you are willing to do a bit more work.  The dynart one 
> is nice in that you know that particular model works for this 
> intended purpose; not all laminators work equally well.  If you 
want 
> to try a cheaper route consult the laminator database and check the 
> archives for others reviews.

Thank you for commenting on Pulsar. They swear that it simple and 
easy and claims 6 mills. What was the size of your board and tell us 
more what it meant 'fair'? How dense was the board?

Mike

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "VaporWings" <dsc@d...> wrote:
> Hi All,
>  I just signed up here and have been reading various post. For 
years I have been using just a dry transfer
>  method of making PCB by printing the image on normal laserjet 
paper using a LaserJet5L printer. I then
> using a clothes iron to iron the image onto a scrubbed copper 
board. I  put water on the paper and mostly
> steam off the paper with the iron. The results are fair so I have 
been looking at better ways to do this without
> lots of photo chemicals. In searching I ran across this site which 
has a these film transfer sheets. 
> 
> http://www.pulsar.gs  (also www.dynaart.com)
> 
> In doing a web search I ran across a web-site that had a really 
negative review of these sheets claiming they
> melt in a laser printer.. This would be bad.. Some post here 
indicate people here are using them with
> good results..
> 
> My couple of questions are :
> 1. Do they really work and how well ? The claim of .006 seems 
pretty out there for this type of system.
>    I would be happy with .030 results.
> 
> 2. Is their "EQUIPMENT" Fab In A Box package system of a laminator, 
Break/shear, and a drill press a
>     good deal and do they work ? I have been using a Large drill 
press for years which seems to work but
>     is bulky. I have been using a bandsaw to cut the boards but it 
really dulls the blades. A thought on the small
>     drill press would be to modify it for CNC down the road. 
Their "modified" laminator is $30 more than the
>     same one from Officemax (or so it appears). If the "Mod" worth 
it ? Does anyone here have web pointers
>     to the same type of equipment but cheaper.
> 
> I read in a previous post that someone was wanting to build a 
better agitator tank.
> I have been using an older version of this agitator tank for 
etching the boards.
> 
> http://store.yahoo.com/webtronics/lowcosettans.html
> 
> It has worked well for me. It looks like the newer version has a 
hood and is sealed better

> then the one I have.
> 
> Thanks in advanced,
> Tom G :)