Homebrew_PCBs

Look for clear hair bleach. I think it's around 12% (40 deg. Baume?);
strong enough to burn your bare hands.
I understand janatorial supply shops have it even stronger, but it
starts to get dangerous and these days may find the police checking
you out.

I got mine from the local Sally Beauty Supply.
In this part of the US they seem to show up
near WalMarts.

On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 21:45:00 -0700, you wrote:

>Copper clad board using muriatic acid would like to find better than 3%
>hydrogen peroxide if possible. In the usa LA california to be exact.
>Also what are some of the better methods of making a pcb cheaply
>BTW if needed I have 99 uv led on a circuit board built that a while ago
>just would need a cheap uv kinda etch resist suggestions welcome there.
>terramir

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

So what is the advantage of using 12% peroxide instead of the drugstore 3% peroxide?

I use 50ml of muriatic acid mixed into 100ml  of drugstore peroxide.
All of my etching is done in about 4 or 5 minutes.

http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/hotcakes.html
http://www.learnmorsecode.com/ch/index.html
http://www.learnmorsecode.com/DC/index.html

Rob KB3BYT

 

Look for clear hair bleach. I think it's around 12% (40 deg. Baume?);
strong enough to burn your bare hands.
I understand janatorial supply shops have it even stronger, but it
starts to get dangerous and these days may find the police checking
you out.

I got mine from the local Sally Beauty Supply.
In this part of the US they seem to show up
near WalMarts.

On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 21:45:00 -0700, you wrote:

>Copper clad board using muriatic acid would like to find better than 3%
>hydrogen peroxide if possible. In the usa LA california to be exact.
>Also what are some of the better methods of making a pcb cheaply
>BTW if needed I have 99 uv led on a circuit board built that a while ago
>just would need a cheap uv kinda etch resist suggestions welcome there.
>terramir

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

For single use the 3% just adds more water.

If you are doing the copper chloride bit
the 3% tends to add too much water and over
time upsets the chemistry.
I'm a newby, I've only been using my original
batch of CuCl for five or six years.

On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 00:22:51 -0400, you wrote:

>So what is the advantage of using 12% peroxide instead of the drugstore
>3% peroxide?
>
>I use 50ml of muriatic acid mixed into 100ml of drugstore peroxide.
>All of my etching is done in about 4 or 5 minutes.
>
>http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/hotcakes.html
>http://www.learnmorsecode.com/ch/index.html
>http://www.learnmorsecode.com/DC/index.html
>
>Rob KB3BYT
>
>On 04/07/2018 05:22 PM, Keith B kabowers@... [Homebrew_PCBs]
>wrote:
>>
>> Look for clear hair bleach. I think it's around 12% (40 deg. Baume?);
>> strong enough to burn your bare hands.
>> I understand janatorial supply shops have it even stronger, but it
>> starts to get dangerous and these days may find the police checking
>> you out.
>>
>> I got mine from the local Sally Beauty Supply.
>> In this part of the US they seem to show up
>> near WalMarts.
>>
>> On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 21:45:00 -0700, you wrote:
>>
>> >Copper clad board using muriatic acid would like to find better than 3%
>> >hydrogen peroxide if possible. In the usa LA california to be exact.
>> >Also what are some of the better methods of making a pcb cheaply
>> >BTW if needed I have 99 uv led on a circuit board built that a while ago
>> >just would need a cheap uv kinda etch resist suggestions welcome there.
>> >terramir
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> http://www.avg.com
>>
>>

What do you mean by
" If you are doing the copper chloride bit"

 

For single use the 3% just adds more water.

If you are doing the copper chloride bit
the 3% tends to add too much water and over
time upsets the chemistry.
I'm a newby, I've only been using my original
batch of CuCl for five or six years.

On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 00:22:51 -0400, you wrote:

>So what is the advantage of using 12% peroxide instead of the drugstore
>3% peroxide?
>
>I use 50ml of muriatic acid mixed into 100ml of drugstore peroxide.
>All of my etching is done in about 4 or 5 minutes.
>
>http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/hotcakes.html
>http://www.learnmorsecode.com/ch/index.html
>http://www.learnmorsecode.com/DC/index.html
>
>Rob KB3BYT
>
>On 04/07/2018 05:22 PM, Keith B kabowers@... [Homebrew_PCBs]
>wrote:
>>
>> Look for clear hair bleach. I think it's around 12% (40 deg. Baume?);
>> strong enough to burn your bare hands.
>> I understand janatorial supply shops have it even stronger, but it
>> starts to get dangerous and these days may find the police checking
>> you out.
>>
>> I got mine from the local Sally Beauty Supply.
>> In this part of the US they seem to show up
>> near WalMarts.
>>
>> On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 21:45:00 -0700, you wrote:
>>
>> >Copper clad board using muriatic acid would like to find better than 3%
>> >hydrogen peroxide if possible. In the usa LA california to be exact.
>> >Also what are some of the better methods of making a pcb cheaply
>> >BTW if needed I have 99 uv led on a circuit board built that a while ago
>> >just would need a cheap uv kinda etch resist suggestions welcome there.
>> >terramir
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> http://www.avg.com
>>
>>

On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 13:52:44 -0400, you wrote:

>What do you mean by
>" If you are doing the copper chloride bit"
>

Peroxide/hydrochloric (muriatic) acid works well until the oxygen
provided by the peroxide runs out. The remnants are copper chloride
(CuCl). It will not etch a board by itself (Ferric chloride does
this, eventually, I think). However, by bubbling air through the
solution, the extra oxygen will allow etching. Perhaps a bit slower,
but it does etch. This particular solution has an indefinite life,
but needs to be adjusted every now and then for additional acid.

Adding peroxide simply goes back to the original solution if you add
enough.

If you look at the etching process in a clear solution, you will see
the copper turn dark in waves, this is the copper being oxidized by
the etchant.

Harvey

>
>
>
>
>On 04/08/2018 12:03 PM, Keith B kabowers@... [Homebrew_PCBs]
>wrote:
>>
>> For single use the 3% just adds more water.
>>
>> If you are doing the copper chloride bit
>> the 3% tends to add too much water and over
>> time upsets the chemistry.
>> I'm a newby, I've only been using my original
>> batch of CuCl for five or six years.
>>
>> On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 00:22:51 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>> >So what is the advantage of using 12% peroxide instead of the drugstore
>> >3% peroxide?
>> >
>> >I use 50ml of muriatic acid mixed into 100ml of drugstore peroxide.
>> >All of my etching is done in about 4 or 5 minutes.
>> >
>> >http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/hotcakes.html
>> >http://www.learnmorsecode.com/ch/index.html
>> >http://www.learnmorsecode.com/DC/index.html
>> >
>> >Rob KB3BYT
>> >
>> >On 04/07/2018 05:22 PM, Keith B kabowers@... [Homebrew_PCBs]
>> >wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Look for clear hair bleach. I think it's around 12% (40 deg. Baume?);
>> >> strong enough to burn your bare hands.
>> >> I understand janatorial supply shops have it even stronger, but it
>> >> starts to get dangerous and these days may find the police checking
>> >> you out.
>> >>
>> >> I got mine from the local Sally Beauty Supply.
>> >> In this part of the US they seem to show up
>> >> near WalMarts.
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 21:45:00 -0700, you wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Copper clad board using muriatic acid would like to find better
>> than 3%
>> >> >hydrogen peroxide if possible. In the usa LA california to be exact.
>> >> >Also what are some of the better methods of making a pcb cheaply
>> >> >BTW if needed I have 99 uv led on a circuit board built that a
>> while ago
>> >> >just would need a cheap uv kinda etch resist suggestions welcome
>> there.
>> >> >terramir
>> >>
>> >> ---
>> >> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> >> http://www.avg.com
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>

Thank you.
I was not reusing solutions.
And... I was not using a bubbler.
I am more of a hobbyist.... not doing high production... so I never pursued
how to reuse and revitalize the solution.

 

On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 13:52:44 -0400, you wrote:

>What do you mean by
>" If you are doing the copper chloride bit"
>
Peroxide/hydrochloric (muriatic) acid works well until the oxygen
provided by the peroxide runs out. The remnants are copper chloride
(CuCl). It will not etch a board by itself (Ferric chloride does
this, eventually, I think). However, by bubbling air through the
solution, the extra oxygen will allow etching. Perhaps a bit slower,
but it does etch. This particular solution has an indefinite life,
but needs to be adjusted every now and then for additional acid.

Adding peroxide simply goes back to the original solution if you add
enough.

If you look at the etching process in a clear solution, you will see
the copper turn dark in waves, this is the copper being oxidized by
the etchant.

Harvey

>
>
>
>
>On 04/08/2018 12:03 PM, Keith B kabowers@... [Homebrew_PCBs]
>wrote:
>>
>> For single use the 3% just adds more water.
>>
>> If you are doing the copper chloride bit
>> the 3% tends to add too much water and over
>> time upsets the chemistry.
>> I'm a newby, I've only been using my original
>> batch of CuCl for five or six years.
>>
>> On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 00:22:51 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>> >So what is the advantage of using 12% peroxide instead of the drugstore
>> >3% peroxide?
>> >
>> >I use 50ml of muriatic acid mixed into 100ml of drugstore peroxide.
>> >All of my etching is done in about 4 or 5 minutes.
>> >
>> >http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/hotcakes.html
>> >http://www.learnmorsecode.com/ch/index.html
>> >http://www.learnmorsecode.com/DC/index.html
>> >
>> >Rob KB3BYT
>> >
>> >On 04/07/2018 05:22 PM, Keith B kabowers@... [Homebrew_PCBs]
>> >wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Look for clear hair bleach. I think it's around 12% (40 deg. Baume?);
>> >> strong enough to burn your bare hands.
>> >> I understand janatorial supply shops have it even stronger, but it
>> >> starts to get dangerous and these days may find the police checking
>> >> you out.
>> >>
>> >> I got mine from the local Sally Beauty Supply.
>> >> In this part of the US they seem to show up
>> >> near WalMarts.
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 21:45:00 -0700, you wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Copper clad board using muriatic acid would like to find better
>> than 3%
>> >> >hydrogen peroxide if possible. In the usa LA california to be exact.
>> >> >Also what are some of the better methods of making a pcb cheaply
>> >> >BTW if needed I have 99 uv led on a circuit board built that a
>> while ago
>> >> >just would need a cheap uv kinda etch resist suggestions welcome
>> there.
>> >> >terramir
>> >>
>> >> ---
>> >> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> >> http://www.avg.com
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>

On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 15:03:03 -0400, you wrote:

>Thank you.
>I was not reusing solutions.
>And... I was not using a bubbler.
>I am more of a hobbyist.... not doing high production... so I never pursued
>how to reuse and revitalize the solution.
>

If you do one or two at a time, that's one thing. I generally did a
run of 5-10 double sided boards at a time, simply because the setup to
clean the boards, etch them and so on was time consuming. I actually
got more done that way than trying to set up for a board, then three
days later, perhaps another one.

As long as the peroxide solution is fresh, you don't need a bubbler.

Mine was left over from the ferric chloride days, and then CuCl.


Harvey

>
>On 04/08/2018 02:09 PM, Harvey White madyn@...
>[Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 13:52:44 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>> >What do you mean by
>> >" If you are doing the copper chloride bit"
>> >
>> Peroxide/hydrochloric (muriatic) acid works well until the oxygen
>> provided by the peroxide runs out. The remnants are copper chloride
>> (CuCl). It will not etch a board by itself (Ferric chloride does
>> this, eventually, I think). However, by bubbling air through the
>> solution, the extra oxygen will allow etching. Perhaps a bit slower,
>> but it does etch. This particular solution has an indefinite life,
>> but needs to be adjusted every now and then for additional acid.
>>
>> Adding peroxide simply goes back to the original solution if you add
>> enough.
>>
>> If you look at the etching process in a clear solution, you will see
>> the copper turn dark in waves, this is the copper being oxidized by
>> the etchant.
>>
>> Harvey
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >On 04/08/2018 12:03 PM, Keith B kabowers@... [Homebrew_PCBs]
>> >wrote:
>> >>
>> >> For single use the 3% just adds more water.
>> >>
>> >> If you are doing the copper chloride bit
>> >> the 3% tends to add too much water and over
>> >> time upsets the chemistry.
>> >> I'm a newby, I've only been using my original
>> >> batch of CuCl for five or six years.
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 00:22:51 -0400, you wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >So what is the advantage of using 12% peroxide instead of the
>> drugstore
>> >> >3% peroxide?
>> >> >
>> >> >I use 50ml of muriatic acid mixed into 100ml of drugstore peroxide.
>> >> >All of my etching is done in about 4 or 5 minutes.
>> >> >
>> >> >http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/hotcakes.html
>> >> >http://www.learnmorsecode.com/ch/index.html
>> >> >http://www.learnmorsecode.com/DC/index.html
>> >> >
>> >> >Rob KB3BYT
>> >> >
>> >> >On 04/07/2018 05:22 PM, Keith B kabowers@...
>> [Homebrew_PCBs]
>> >> >wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Look for clear hair bleach. I think it's around 12% (40 deg.
>> Baume?);
>> >> >> strong enough to burn your bare hands.
>> >> >> I understand janatorial supply shops have it even stronger, but it
>> >> >> starts to get dangerous and these days may find the police checking
>> >> >> you out.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I got mine from the local Sally Beauty Supply.
>> >> >> In this part of the US they seem to show up
>> >> >> near WalMarts.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 21:45:00 -0700, you wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >Copper clad board using muriatic acid would like to find better
>> >> than 3%
>> >> >> >hydrogen peroxide if possible. In the usa LA california to be
>> exact.
>> >> >> >Also what are some of the better methods of making a pcb cheaply
>> >> >> >BTW if needed I have 99 uv led on a circuit board built that a
>> >> while ago
>> >> >> >just would need a cheap uv kinda etch resist suggestions welcome
>> >> there.
>> >> >> >terramir
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ---
>> >> >> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> >> >> http://www.avg.com
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>

The hydroponic folks use 30% H202 to clean equipment etc.  It's available on line from Walmart, Amazon etc but it's seems rather expensive  at  around $23 per liter.

I used to do a lot of etching, mostly with ammonium persulfate, but these days I can can't justify doing it my self anymore.  Just got two boards done via JLCPCB in China, got 10 copies of each board for a total order price of $7.00. One board was $2 ( 3" x 3.5" two layer double sided .062 FR4) the other was $5 ( 2"  x 3.3" but .032" FR4).  The quality and delivery time (5 days) was superb.  I can't buy the raw stock for that price.  I don't know how they can make any money at those prices.

Craig

My 70mmX100mm PCBs cost 40 cents each.
The time saved is really where I value printing my own PCBs.
AND
there is one more advantage to printing your own PCBs...caveman electronics style.
HUGE traces.. I can see with my gnarly vision.

Most of my traces are more than 1/8th inch wide.  I don't measure traces in MILs.
So if I make a mistake or want to experiment I can just plain drill another hole and always
find copper.
http://www.learnmorsecode.com/regen/04bottom.jpg
which makes for parts layout wide enough to actually not trip over parts:
http://www.learnmorsecode.com/regen/04top.jpg
http://www.learnmorsecode.com/regen/00regen.html

 

The hydroponic folks use 30% H202 to clean equipment etc.  It's available on line from Walmart, Amazon etc but it's seems rather expensive  at  around $23 per liter.

I used to do a lot of etching, mostly with ammonium persulfate, but these days I can can't justify doing it my self anymore.  Just got two boards done via JLCPCB in China, got 10 copies of each board for a total order price of $7.00. One board was $2 ( 3" x 3.5" two layer double sided .062 FR4) the other was $5 ( 2"  x 3.3" but .032" FR4).  The quality and delivery time (5 days) was superb.  I can't buy the raw stock for that price.  I don't know how they can make any money at those prices.

Craig

Please do not call it "bleach", it is not chlorine, it is hydrogen peroxide.

On 4/8/2018 8:38 PM, alienrelics@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:

> Please do not call it "bleach", it is not chlorine, it is hydrogen peroxide.
>
>
> Someone coming across this thread may be confused by this. I have no
> idea what would happen if chlorine bleach and hydrochloric acid were mixed.

Hello--
A Wiki search states...

"The chemical equation for bleach and hydrochloric acid is as follows:
NaClO + 2 HCl ----> Cl2 + H2O + NaCl. In other words, sodium
hypochlorite and hydrochloric acid make saltwater and chlorine gas. ...
Chlorine gas is highly reactive because the bond between the two
chlorine atoms is weak..."

(According to various news outlets, Syria's Assad regime is using
chlorine gas or
another related weaponized chlorine compound against civilians, causing many
casualties.)

Under NO circumstances should you mix these chemicals to use an an
experimental
PC-board etchant!

73--

Brad AA1IP

As a beauticians product, it IS a bleach - HAIR bleach, as the writer specified.  It is not LAUNDRY bleach.  Just as not all acids are HCl, not all bleaches are chlorine based. 

Norm  w6nim

 

Please do not call it "bleach", it is not chlorine, it is hydrogen peroxide.

Someone coming across this thread may be confused by this. I have no idea what would happen if chlorine bleach and hydrochloric acid were mixed.

Steve Greenfield AE7HD

---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <kabowers@...> wrote :

Look for clear hair bleach. I think it's around 12% (40 deg. Baume?);
strong enough to burn your bare hands.
I understand janatorial supply shops have it even stronger, but it
starts to get dangerous and these days may find the police checking
you out.

I got mine from the local Sally Beauty Supply.
In this part of the US they seem to show up
near WalMarts.

Virus-free. www.avg.com

On Mon, 9 Apr 2018 00:22:32 -0700, you wrote:

>As a beauticians product, it IS a bleach - HAIR bleach, as the writer
>specified.  It is not LAUNDRY bleach.  Just as not all acids are HCl,
>not all bleaches are chlorine based.

Perhaps not all people would make that distinction.

Harvey

>
>Norm  w6nim
>
>
>
>On 4/8/2018 5:38 PM, alienrelics@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
>>
>> Please do not call it "bleach", it is not chlorine, it is hydrogen
>> peroxide.
>>
>>
>> Someone coming across this thread may be confused by this. I have no
>> idea what would happen if chlorine bleach and hydrochloric acid were
>> mixed.
>>
>> Steve Greenfield AE7HD
>>
>>
>> ---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <kabowers@...> wrote :
>>
>> Look for clear hair bleach. I think it's around 12% (40 deg. Baume?);
>> strong enough to burn your bare hands.
>> I understand janatorial supply shops have it even stronger, but it
>> starts to get dangerous and these days may find the police checking
>> you out.
>>
>> I got mine from the local Sally Beauty Supply.
>> In this part of the US they seem to show up
>> near WalMarts.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>---
>This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>http://www.avg.com