Homebrew_PCBs

First pass at playing with this stuff.
Heat time was 30 seconds.
Had some pitting. Perhaps longer press time would have less pitting?
http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/trf/index.html

Congrats, that brd stock is what mine look like with cheep lam and house hold iron after. Cheep nail polish over black pit marks and perfectly shinny copper traces after. Good experimenting pays off.

Rob,

Would you by chance have actual Pulsar TRF or anything on hand? It would be interesting to see how they compare. There are so many factors with this stuff it's hard to tell what's causing what sometimes. I've got the modded Apache, the eBay yellow transfer paper, and the real TRF, and I've still had bouts where the crap just wasn't working. My main issue is that I don't do transfers consistently enough to arrive at a solid setup. Seems like every time I set the stuff back up, I've forgotten what did or didn't work the last time I did it. I probably need to start jotting down notes.

Thanks!

On 26 Dec 2016 09:07:53 -0800, you wrote:

>Rob,
>
>Would you by chance have actual Pulsar TRF or anything on hand? It would be interesting to see how they compare. There are so many factors with this stuff it's hard to tell what's causing what sometimes. I've got the modded Apache, the eBay yellow transfer paper, and the real TRF, and I've still had bouts where the crap just wasn't working. My main issue is that I don't do transfers consistently enough to arrive at a solid setup. Seems like every time I set the stuff back up, I've forgotten what did or didn't work the last time I did it. I probably need to start jotting down notes.

Every once and a while, the pulsar film almost completely
malfunctions. I get large splotches that do not stick at all, and
those that do, damage the toner.

No idea, since the temperature on the laminator doesn't vary, and the
next one might be just fine.

Harvey

>
>Thanks!

Harvey,

That's crazy, as it's exactly what I was talking about. I think about two sessions ago I had the TRF come out looking almost exactly like it does going in. It just lifted right off the board with almost no part sticking. I think I ended up moving to my old iron and not using the laminator. I'm still of the belief that something in there has to be different. Maybe the laminator lies about its current temp or something??

Take Care

On 26 Dec 2016 09:22:52 -0800, you wrote:

>Harvey,
>
>That's crazy, as it's exactly what I was talking about. I think about two sessions ago I had the TRF come out looking almost exactly like it does going in. It just lifted right off the board with almost no part sticking. I think I ended up moving to my old iron and not using the laminator. I'm still of the belief that something in there has to be different. Maybe the laminator lies about its current temp or something??

Actually, I don't think so, since I was doing a run and the ones
before and after turned out ok.

I'm beginning to suspect the foil itself may have a contaminant on it,
or the toner, somehow.

Putting fresh foil on the board and reworking the board generally will
ruin something on the pattern.

Harvey

>
>Take Care

That's possible too Harvey. I'll keep an eye out for it. I can't remember if I tried to reuse the stuff that didn't stick. Now that I think back, there were some hazy splotches, and I think it heated and smeared the toner, so I probably started over with all new stuff on the next successful pass.

Take Care

Your traces are awfully wide.   I would like to see experiments with more narrow traces.

This stuff looks interesting for transfers for things like silk layers and labeling project boxes.

But from my reading it looks like you now have 2 transfers to worry about. One for the toner, one for the foil.    What is the advantage here other than some cool colors?

I don't know about this SQUID INK.....
I will do some more experimenting on next batches.
I generally do 3 to 6 PCBs per batch...usually two at a time..... so I did the TRF experiment last.
There may have been one other chemistry change not accounted for in this batch.

I always scrub  all copper with real fine...600? grit sandpaper then rub clean with
ACETONE.
This particular batch I used drug store  NAIL POLISH ROMOVER PRETTY NAILS acetone.
  which has 20 ingrediants and is purple.
So I have to wonder if any of this crap was left on the copper after it was dry.
AND
then when it was time to wash off the final toner from the etched traces....
this nail polish would NOT disolve the toner so I resorted to 100% acetone .

So I learned that NAIL POLISH remover with the first ingrediant as acetone was
rather useless for this task.
 

 

On 26 Dec 2016 09:22:52 -0800, you wrote:

>Harvey,
>
>That's crazy, as it's exactly what I was talking about. I think about two sessions ago I had the TRF come out looking almost exactly like it does going in. It just lifted right off the board with almost no part sticking. I think I ended up moving to my old iron and not using the laminator. I'm still of the belief that something in there has to be different. Maybe the laminator lies about its current temp or something??

Actually, I don't think so, since I was doing a run and the ones
before and after turned out ok.

I'm beginning to suspect the foil itself may have a contaminant on it,
or the toner, somehow.

Putting fresh foil on the board and reworking the board generally will
ruin something on the pattern.

Harvey

>
>Take Care

I use HP laserjet toner....
and  the 10 cent EBAY yellow transfer paper
and  I heat up my heavy metal to 400 degrees and then wait for optimum
350 degrees as the temp falls over a 15 minute period....thermal mass being thermal mass and all that science....
slap artwork and copper on silicone mat ...cover with mat... and steel press.... and
flip over the egg timer hourglass....
very consistent results every time.
Seems my 600 grit copper scrub down makes a world of difference.

http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/hotcakes.html

I will experiment in the future more with laminators..and rollers... after I get gears.
http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/index.html
maybe.

Seems heavy metal press.... 20 pounds of press weight....and one $12 digital thermometer....and a hot plate....
game over... I win.

And no... I never bought Pulsar TRF foil.
I've never played with this stuff before so my idea of fun was how much of this 100 foot stuff
could be used for all sorts of crafty stuff with my grandchildren.... who I actually gave a PANTUM printer for Christmas
just for crafts artwork. 

 

Rob,

Would you by chance have actual Pulsar TRF or anything on hand? It would be interesting to see how they compare. There are so many factors with this stuff it's hard to tell what's causing what sometimes. I've got the modded Apache, the eBay yellow transfer paper, and the real TRF, and I've still had bouts where the crap just wasn't working. My main issue is that I don't do transfers consistently enough to arrive at a solid setup. Seems like every time I set the stuff back up, I've forgotten what did or didn't work the last time I did it. I probably need to start jotting down notes.

Thanks!

YES very wide.
MACK TRUCK highway lanes wide.
My vision is impaired.
so bigger is better for me....
nothing I do is ever going to be used in anything real world for sale...state of the art being
smaller is better.....SMT... etc... its just hobby stuff.
BUT
the experiment IS the same...laser print....  heat toner.. transfer to copper and  etch.

Noting that sometimes the toner transfered is not perfect...has very tiny pitting....
so
thie idea here is to cover all traces with this next layer...green stuff... pigment....
and then have less pitting damage to copper traces.

My solution to this pitting problem was to trace all toner with a
SHARPIE or EDDING 404 permanent marker
BUT
and this is the real reason for using TRF
WHEN IT GETS REAL SMALL I can't , you can't, expect to trace the real thin lines
and pads without screwing up the artwork too much so
TRY the green stuff
and see if it cures the normal pitting.

 TWO heats doesn't seem to be a problem.
I'm not mashing with rollers though.
So I don't get that extrusion factor.

 

Your traces are awfully wide.   I would like to see experiments with more narrow traces.

This stuff looks interesting for transfers for things like silk layers and labeling project boxes.

But from my reading it looks like you now have 2 transfers to worry about. One for the toner, one for the foil.    What is the advantage here other than some cool colors?

On 26 Dec 2016 11:13:09 -0800, you wrote:

>Your traces are awfully wide. I would like to see experiments with more narrow traces.
>
>This stuff looks interesting for transfers for things like silk layers and labeling project boxes.
>
>But from my reading it looks like you now have 2 transfers to worry about. One for the toner, one for the foil. What is the advantage here other than some cool colors?

The green foil is used to seal the toner for microscopic holes. It
does work, and is a bit harder than just the toner, although it can be
scratched. It won't rub off as easily as toner might.

The same approach may be used after etching (and gluing the boards
together if you do that). Print the silk screen layer on the paper
you use (or directly print it on the board... if you do), then use the
white TRF foil to simulate a silk screen.

It (at least, the pulsar version), is thicker and comes off in pieces.
I use masking tape (not aggressive) to pick up the remnants. The part
bonded to the toner generally stays, the free floating parts don't.

I have not yet tried color toner to make a multi-colored board,
although that is a possibility.

I've stopped doing silk screen layers, though.

My board preparation is generally scrubbing with bon-ami (or an
abrasive cleanser that has some metal brighteners in it), then
roughing up with 1000 or 1200 grit paper. Force air dry it with a
hair dryer (it may discolor, depending on your water, never had a
problem), then an acetone rub with a lint free cloth.

Toner transfer as usual. (I go from laminator to water directly, it
seems to minimize cracking). When the board is still wet, dry it off
with a hair dryer, it will be somewhat warm, which is ok. Then put on
the green TRF. Allow that to cool completely. The parts of the TRF
over the toner should transfer completely.

Etch, tin plate if desired, drill pilot holes, epoxy the bottom to the
top, allow to completely cure, drill holes, mount parts.

Harvey

On 26 Dec 2016 11:02:05 -0800, you wrote:

>That's possible too Harvey. I'll keep an eye out for it. I can't remember if I tried to reuse the stuff that didn't stick. Now that I think back, there were some hazy splotches, and I think it heated and smeared the toner, so I probably started over with all new stuff on the next successful pass.

The foil that did not stick looked a bit more shiny than before, as if
it had absorbed a layer of some sort of oil from the toner. Just
guessing here. Toner was HP and new. No idea what the problem was,
just that it happened.

Harvey

>
>Take Care

Thanks Ancel for all the new info! Good to hear that the regular TRF works.

spinnaker2011- I can't speak for everyone, but my guess on the colored foil benefits would mainly be cost. I'm a bit too thrifty with my green TRF, but the eBay stuff is sold in such quantities that you probably wouldn't care how much of it you used or even threw away (sort of like I am now with the yellow paper). I wouldn't mind getting an assorted pack of colors either for panel labeling. 

Take Care