Homebrew_PCBs

I found a couple of stores on ebay where they offer reasonably priced
metal gears, that may fit some of our laminators:

1. fivefive.co.ltd:
http://stores.ebay.com/fivefive-co-ltd/Gear-/_i.html?_fsub=13520882017

2. speed-mart:
http://stores.ebay.com/speed-mart/Spur-Gear-/_i.html?_fsub=1646085919&_sid=1130292079&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

Both stores have gears for several different shaft sizes, and allow
searches on the site by shaft size. This cuts down the number of entries
to look at. The gears have round holes with collars with set screws to
fit flatted shafts.

I have found a set of gears that look like they probably would work in
the Harbor Freight laminator, but I am holding off ordering them until I
determine whether the plastic supports for the roller shafts soften at
the same low temperature at the gears. If they do, there is no point in
further pursuit of the high temperature mod for that laminator.

I will report back after I have tried to melt the supports.

Harvey

What is the advantage to swapping out gears?   I have been using a GBC Heatseal H212 for a number of years now with no issues.   The only modification I made was to remove some guides to allow the PCB to pass through.

The Harbor Freight laminator doesn't get hot enough for the Brother toner. In the process of raising the temperature I managed to soften the gears to the point where they no longer turned the rollers. Replacing the plastic gears with metal ones solves that problem, but only if the plastic supports for the shafts are made of a higher temperature plastic.

I am not familiar with the GBC laminator, except through reading about it here in the group, so I don't know about what kind of gears it has. If it works, don't fix it.

Harvey

 

What is the advantage to swapping out gears?   I have been using a GBC Heatseal H212 for a number of years now with no issues.   The only modification I made was to remove some guides to allow the PCB to pass through.

There are two issues here.
First is the folks who want to change the speed of the rollers to slow it down to do
just one pass.
The laminators that have two sizes of gears can have them swapped to have the bigger where the smaller
was and it will slow down.
BUT
if your laminator does not reach 340 degrees then swapping gears does not get you anywhere.

Issue two is US melting nylon plastic gears when we raise the 290 degree standard photo pouch
laminators to 340 degrees... and higher 370 degrees to match toner melt temperatures.

FROM WIKI:
 The 428 °F (220 °C) melting point of nylon 6 is lower than the 509 °F (265 °C) melting point of nylon 66.

SO
here lies our problem.
Cheap gear motors pushing cheap gears are fine in a laminator that is supposed to never reach
300 degrees.
And then
we cook them up with a laminator hack
and
if we go a little too far.... melt our gears:

http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/royalmods9.jpg

and nobody has been able to identify the correct metal gears to replace some of our gears.

So look into making them:

http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/gearteeth.gif

 

What is the advantage to swapping out gears?   I have been using a GBC Heatseal H212 for a number of years now with no issues.   The only modification I made was to remove some guides to allow the PCB to pass through.

Forget about the melting point. You need to be looking at the heat deflection temperature. Most of the plastics usable in this temperature range are very expensive, Teflon (PTFE) is probably the cheapest. A high temperature epoxy (such as EpoxAcast 670 HT from Smooth-On) with the addition of glass fibers or powdered metal fillers to further increase the heat resistance might also work.

Craig

Anybody making epoxy composite gears?
Sure would like to see an example of that some day.

 

Forget about the melting point. You need to be looking at the heat deflection temperature. Most of the plastics usable in this temperature range are very expensive, Teflon (PTFE) is probably the cheapest. A high temperature epoxy (such as EpoxAcast 670 HT from Smooth-On) with the addition of glass fibers or powdered metal fillers to further increase the heat resistance might also work.

Craig

---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <roomberg@...> wrote :

There are two issues here.
First is the folks who want to change the speed of the rollers to slow it down to do
just one pass.
The laminators that have two sizes of gears can have them swapped to have the bigger where the smaller
was and it will slow down.
BUT
if your laminator does not reach 340 degrees then swapping gears does not get you anywhere.

Issue two is US melting nylon plastic gears when we raise the 290 degree standard photo pouch
laminators to 340 degrees... and higher 370 degrees to match toner melt temperatures.

FROM WIKI:
 The 428 °F (220 °C) melting point of nylon 6 is lower than the 509 °F (265 °C) melting point of nylon 66.

SO
here lies our problem.
Cheap gear motors pushing cheap gears are fine in a laminator that is supposed to never reach
300 degrees.
And then
we cook them up with a laminator hack
and
if we go a little too far.... melt our gears:

http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/royalmods9.jpg

and nobody has been able to identify the correct metal gears to replace some of our gears.

So look into making them:

http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/gearteeth.gif

Not epoxy glass, but making epoxy carbonm fibre gears. New end plates to be made from laminated (2 layers FR4, without copper.)
Just now making the gear cutter blanks, not difficult if you have a lathe and a mill. A £10 ($14) laminator being butchered. Arduino temperature and synchronous motor speed control. The total cost will be about £25, less my time.


Malcolm

I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
The writing is on the wall.
Ha-ktovet al ha-kir

--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 12/26/16, Rob roomberg@... [Homebrew_PCBs] <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Metal laminator gears..... anybody making epoxy gears?
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, December 26, 2016, 11:48 AM


 












Anybody making epoxy composite gears?

Sure would like to see an example of that some day.







On 12/26/2016 03:34 AM,
craigl2@...
[Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:


 


Forget
about the melting point. You need to be
looking at the
heat deflection temperature. Most of the
plastics usable
in this temperature range are very expensive,
Teflon
(PTFE) is probably the cheapest. A high
temperature epoxy
(such as EpoxAcast 670 HT from Smooth-On) with
the
addition of glass fibers or powdered metal
fillers to
further increase the heat resistance might
also work.



Craig




---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com,
<roomberg@...>
wrote :




There are two issues
here.

First is the folks who want to change the
speed of the
rollers to
slow it down to do

just one pass.

The laminators that have two sizes of
gears can have
them swapped
to have the bigger where the smaller

was and it will slow down.

BUT

if your laminator does not reach 340
degrees then
swapping gears
does not get you anywhere.



Issue two is US melting nylon plastic
gears when we
raise the 290
degree standard photo pouch

laminators to 340 degrees... and higher
370 degrees to
match toner
melt temperatures.



FROM WIKI:

 The 428 °F (220 °C) melting point of
nylon 6 is lower
than the
509 °F (265 °C) melting point of nylon
66.



SO

here lies our problem.

Cheap gear motors pushing cheap gears are
fine in a
laminator that
is supposed to never reach

300 degrees.

And then

we cook them up with a laminator hack

and

if we go a little too far.... melt our
gears:



http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/royalmods9.jpg



and nobody has been able to identify the
correct metal
gears to
replace some of our gears.



So look into making them:



http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/gearteeth.gif




























#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941 --
#yiv8350447941ygrp-mkp {
border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px
0;padding:0 10px;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-mkp hr {
border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-mkp #yiv8350447941hd {
color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px
0;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-mkp #yiv8350447941ads {
margin-bottom:10px;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-mkp .yiv8350447941ad {
padding:0 0;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-mkp .yiv8350447941ad p {
margin:0;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-mkp .yiv8350447941ad a {
color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}
#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-sponsor
#yiv8350447941ygrp-lc {
font-family:Arial;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-sponsor
#yiv8350447941ygrp-lc #yiv8350447941hd {
margin:10px
0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-sponsor
#yiv8350447941ygrp-lc .yiv8350447941ad {
margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941actions {
font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941activity {
background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941activity span {
font-weight:700;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941activity span:first-child {
text-transform:uppercase;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941activity span a {
color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941activity span span {
color:#ff7900;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941activity span
.yiv8350447941underline {
text-decoration:underline;}

#yiv8350447941 .yiv8350447941attach {
clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px
0;width:400px;}

#yiv8350447941 .yiv8350447941attach div a {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv8350447941 .yiv8350447941attach img {
border:none;padding-right:5px;}

#yiv8350447941 .yiv8350447941attach label {
display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}

#yiv8350447941 .yiv8350447941attach label a {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv8350447941 blockquote {
margin:0 0 0 4px;}

#yiv8350447941 .yiv8350447941bold {
font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}

#yiv8350447941 .yiv8350447941bold a {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv8350447941 dd.yiv8350447941last p a {
font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}

#yiv8350447941 dd.yiv8350447941last p span {
margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}

#yiv8350447941 dd.yiv8350447941last p
span.yiv8350447941yshortcuts {
margin-right:0;}

#yiv8350447941 div.yiv8350447941attach-table div div a {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv8350447941 div.yiv8350447941attach-table {
width:400px;}

#yiv8350447941 div.yiv8350447941file-title a, #yiv8350447941
div.yiv8350447941file-title a:active, #yiv8350447941
div.yiv8350447941file-title a:hover, #yiv8350447941
div.yiv8350447941file-title a:visited {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv8350447941 div.yiv8350447941photo-title a,
#yiv8350447941 div.yiv8350447941photo-title a:active,
#yiv8350447941 div.yiv8350447941photo-title a:hover,
#yiv8350447941 div.yiv8350447941photo-title a:visited {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv8350447941 div#yiv8350447941ygrp-mlmsg
#yiv8350447941ygrp-msg p a span.yiv8350447941yshortcuts {
font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}

#yiv8350447941 .yiv8350447941green {
color:#628c2a;}

#yiv8350447941 .yiv8350447941MsoNormal {
margin:0 0 0 0;}

#yiv8350447941 o {
font-size:0;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941photos div {
float:left;width:72px;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941photos div div {
border:1px solid
#666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941photos div label {
color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941reco-category {
font-size:77%;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941reco-desc {
font-size:77%;}

#yiv8350447941 .yiv8350447941replbq {
margin:4px;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {
margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-mlmsg {
font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean,
sans-serif;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-mlmsg table {
font-size:inherit;font:100%;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-mlmsg select,
#yiv8350447941 input, #yiv8350447941 textarea {
font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-mlmsg pre, #yiv8350447941
code {
font:115% monospace;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-mlmsg * {
line-height:1.22em;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-mlmsg #yiv8350447941logo {
padding-bottom:10px;}


#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-msg p a {
font-family:Verdana;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-msg
p#yiv8350447941attach-count span {
color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-reco
#yiv8350447941reco-head {
color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-reco {
margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-sponsor #yiv8350447941ov
li a {
font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-sponsor #yiv8350447941ov
li {
font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-sponsor #yiv8350447941ov
ul {
margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-text {
font-family:Georgia;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-text p {
margin:0 0 1em 0;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-text tt {
font-size:120%;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {
border-right:none !important;
}
#yiv8350447941

On Sun, 25 Dec 2016 22:43:13 -0700, you wrote:

>The Harbor Freight laminator doesn't get hot enough for the Brother
>toner. In the process of raising the temperature I managed to soften the
>gears to the point where they no longer turned the rollers. Replacing
>the plastic gears with metal ones solves that problem, but only if the
>plastic supports for the shafts are made of a higher temperature plastic.
>
>I am not familiar with the GBC laminator, except through reading about
>it here in the group, so I don't know about what kind of gears it has.
>If it works, don't fix it.

Has anyone considered buying a junked laser printer from a thrift
store, and using the fuser assembly?

It would need some mechanical and electrical work, but that's what
you're talking about anyway, just perhaps a bit more....

(the other) Harvey

>
>Harvey
>
>
>On 12/25/2016 8:35 PM, me@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
>>
>> What is the advantage to swapping out gears? I have been using a GBC
>> Heatseal H212 for a number of years now with no issues. The only
>> modification I made was to remove some guides to allow the PCB to pass
>> through.
>>
>>

Harvey,

That’s what DLP (Direct Laser Printing) PCB is all about.
There was a lot of messages about this technique a while back.
I forgot who was the main poster about it, but there were description
for modifying the laser to direct print the artwork on the copper clad board.

You might want to search through the archive for DLP.

Just my $0.02,
Jean-Paul
N1JPL

> On Dec 26, 2016, at 10:20 AM, Harvey White madyn@... [Homebrew_PCBs] <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> On Sun, 25 Dec 2016 22:43:13 -0700, you wrote:
>
> >The Harbor Freight laminator doesn't get hot enough for the Brother
> >toner. In the process of raising the temperature I managed to soften the
> >gears to the point where they no longer turned the rollers. Replacing
> >the plastic gears with metal ones solves that problem, but only if the
> >plastic supports for the shafts are made of a higher temperature plastic.
> >
> >I am not familiar with the GBC laminator, except through reading about
> >it here in the group, so I don't know about what kind of gears it has.
> >If it works, don't fix it.
>
> Has anyone considered buying a junked laser printer from a thrift
> store, and using the fuser assembly?
>
> It would need some mechanical and electrical work, but that's what
> you're talking about anyway, just perhaps a bit more....
>
> (the other) Harvey
>
> >
> >Harvey
> >
> >
> >On 12/25/2016 8:35 PM, me@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
> >>
> >> What is the advantage to swapping out gears? I have been using a GBC
> >> Heatseal H212 for a number of years now with no issues. The only
> >> modification I made was to remove some guides to allow the PCB to pass
> >> through.
> >>
> >>
>
>

On Mon, 26 Dec 2016 10:59:47 -0500, you wrote:

>Harvey,
>
>That’s what DLP (Direct Laser Printing) PCB is all about.
>There was a lot of messages about this technique a while back.
>I forgot who was the main poster about it, but there were description
>for modifying the laser to direct print the artwork on the copper clad board.
>
>You might want to search through the archive for DLP.

Right now, I'm getting boards made rather than making them myself. I
need the plated through holes and 6/6 for the projects I'm doing.

However, that does remain an option for one of, although I have the
parts for a PC board router sitting around.

However, I was considering just using the fuser assembly and working
with it, since it is designed to deal with the fusing point of the
toner and do it for thousands of prints. Many times, the drum itself
is bad, and the printer can be had for a small amount. You could even
find a brother printer and rework it, allowing for the higher
temperature toner.

Harvey

>
>Just my $0.02,
>Jean-Paul
>N1JPL
>
>
>
>> On Dec 26, 2016, at 10:20 AM, Harvey White madyn@... [Homebrew_PCBs] <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 25 Dec 2016 22:43:13 -0700, you wrote:
>>
>> >The Harbor Freight laminator doesn't get hot enough for the Brother
>> >toner. In the process of raising the temperature I managed to soften the
>> >gears to the point where they no longer turned the rollers. Replacing
>> >the plastic gears with metal ones solves that problem, but only if the
>> >plastic supports for the shafts are made of a higher temperature plastic.
>> >
>> >I am not familiar with the GBC laminator, except through reading about
>> >it here in the group, so I don't know about what kind of gears it has.
>> >If it works, don't fix it.
>>
>> Has anyone considered buying a junked laser printer from a thrift
>> store, and using the fuser assembly?
>>
>> It would need some mechanical and electrical work, but that's what
>> you're talking about anyway, just perhaps a bit more....
>>
>> (the other) Harvey
>>
>> >
>> >Harvey
>> >
>> >
>> >On 12/25/2016 8:35 PM, me@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
>> >>
>> >> What is the advantage to swapping out gears? I have been using a GBC
>> >> Heatseal H212 for a number of years now with no issues. The only
>> >> modification I made was to remove some guides to allow the PCB to pass
>> >> through.
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>

YES
its called the PANTUM laser printer brand new for $34

https://youtu.be/WQ0QPcXfuPo

 

On Sun, 25 Dec 2016 22:43:13 -0700, you wrote:

>The Harbor Freight laminator doesn't get hot enough for the Brother
>toner. In the process of raising the temperature I managed to soften the
>gears to the point where they no longer turned the rollers. Replacing
>the plastic gears with metal ones solves that problem, but only if the
>plastic supports for the shafts are made of a higher temperature plastic.
>
>I am not familiar with the GBC laminator, except through reading about
>it here in the group, so I don't know about what kind of gears it has.
>If it works, don't fix it.

Has anyone considered buying a junked laser printer from a thrift
store, and using the fuser assembly?

It would need some mechanical and electrical work, but that's what
you're talking about anyway, just perhaps a bit more....

(the other) Harvey

>
>Harvey
>
>
>On 12/25/2016 8:35 PM, me@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
>>
>> What is the advantage to swapping out gears? I have been using a GBC
>> Heatseal H212 for a number of years now with no issues. The only
>> modification I made was to remove some guides to allow the PCB to pass
>> through.
>>
>>

TAKE PICTURES  please please please

 

Not epoxy glass, but making epoxy carbonm fibre gears. New end plates to be made from laminated (2 layers FR4, without copper.)
Just now making the gear cutter blanks, not difficult if you have a lathe and a mill. A £10 ($14) laminator being butchered. Arduino temperature and synchronous motor speed control. The total cost will be about £25, less my time.

Malcolm

I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
The writing is on the wall.
Ha-ktovet al ha-kir

--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 12/26/16, Rob roomberg@... [Homebrew_PCBs] <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Metal laminator gears..... anybody making epoxy gears?
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, December 26, 2016, 11:48 AM


 












Anybody making epoxy composite gears?

Sure would like to see an example of that some day.







On 12/26/2016 03:34 AM,
craigl2@...
[Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:


 


Forget
about the melting point. You need to be
looking at the
heat deflection temperature. Most of the
plastics usable
in this temperature range are very expensive,
Teflon
(PTFE) is probably the cheapest. A high
temperature epoxy
(such as EpoxAcast 670 HT from Smooth-On) with
the
addition of glass fibers or powdered metal
fillers to
further increase the heat resistance might
also work.



Craig




---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com,
<roomberg@...>
wrote :




There are two issues
here.

First is the folks who want to change the
speed of the
rollers to
slow it down to do

just one pass.

The laminators that have two sizes of
gears can have
them swapped
to have the bigger where the smaller

was and it will slow down.

BUT

if your laminator does not reach 340
degrees then
swapping gears
does not get you anywhere.



Issue two is US melting nylon plastic
gears when we
raise the 290
degree standard photo pouch

laminators to 340 degrees... and higher
370 degrees to
match toner
melt temperatures.



FROM WIKI:

 The 428 °F (220 °C) melting point of
nylon 6 is lower
than the
509 °F (265 °C) melting point of nylon
66.



SO

here lies our problem.

Cheap gear motors pushing cheap gears are
fine in a
laminator that
is supposed to never reach

300 degrees.

And then

we cook them up with a laminator hack

and

if we go a little too far.... melt our
gears:



http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/royalmods9.jpg



and nobody has been able to identify the
correct metal
gears to
replace some of our gears.



So look into making them:



http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/gearteeth.gif




























#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941 --
#yiv8350447941ygrp-mkp {
border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px
0;padding:0 10px;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-mkp hr {
border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-mkp #yiv8350447941hd {
color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px
0;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-mkp #yiv8350447941ads {
margin-bottom:10px;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-mkp .yiv8350447941ad {
padding:0 0;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-mkp .yiv8350447941ad p {
margin:0;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-mkp .yiv8350447941ad a {
color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}
#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-sponsor
#yiv8350447941ygrp-lc {
font-family:Arial;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-sponsor
#yiv8350447941ygrp-lc #yiv8350447941hd {
margin:10px
0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-sponsor
#yiv8350447941ygrp-lc .yiv8350447941ad {
margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941actions {
font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941activity {
background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941activity span {
font-weight:700;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941activity span:first-child {
text-transform:uppercase;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941activity span a {
color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941activity span span {
color:#ff7900;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941activity span
.yiv8350447941underline {
text-decoration:underline;}

#yiv8350447941 .yiv8350447941attach {
clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px
0;width:400px;}

#yiv8350447941 .yiv8350447941attach div a {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv8350447941 .yiv8350447941attach img {
border:none;padding-right:5px;}

#yiv8350447941 .yiv8350447941attach label {
display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}

#yiv8350447941 .yiv8350447941attach label a {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv8350447941 blockquote {
margin:0 0 0 4px;}

#yiv8350447941 .yiv8350447941bold {
font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}

#yiv8350447941 .yiv8350447941bold a {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv8350447941 dd.yiv8350447941last p a {
font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}

#yiv8350447941 dd.yiv8350447941last p span {
margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}

#yiv8350447941 dd.yiv8350447941last p
span.yiv8350447941yshortcuts {
margin-right:0;}

#yiv8350447941 div.yiv8350447941attach-table div div a {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv8350447941 div.yiv8350447941attach-table {
width:400px;}

#yiv8350447941 div.yiv8350447941file-title a, #yiv8350447941
div.yiv8350447941file-title a:active, #yiv8350447941
div.yiv8350447941file-title a:hover, #yiv8350447941
div.yiv8350447941file-title a:visited {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv8350447941 div.yiv8350447941photo-title a,
#yiv8350447941 div.yiv8350447941photo-title a:active,
#yiv8350447941 div.yiv8350447941photo-title a:hover,
#yiv8350447941 div.yiv8350447941photo-title a:visited {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv8350447941 div#yiv8350447941ygrp-mlmsg
#yiv8350447941ygrp-msg p a span.yiv8350447941yshortcuts {
font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}

#yiv8350447941 .yiv8350447941green {
color:#628c2a;}

#yiv8350447941 .yiv8350447941MsoNormal {
margin:0 0 0 0;}

#yiv8350447941 o {
font-size:0;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941photos div {
float:left;width:72px;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941photos div div {
border:1px solid
#666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941photos div label {
color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941reco-category {
font-size:77%;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941reco-desc {
font-size:77%;}

#yiv8350447941 .yiv8350447941replbq {
margin:4px;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {
margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-mlmsg {
font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean,
sans-serif;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-mlmsg table {
font-size:inherit;font:100%;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-mlmsg select,
#yiv8350447941 input, #yiv8350447941 textarea {
font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-mlmsg pre, #yiv8350447941
code {
font:115% monospace;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-mlmsg * {
line-height:1.22em;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-mlmsg #yiv8350447941logo {
padding-bottom:10px;}


#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-msg p a {
font-family:Verdana;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-msg
p#yiv8350447941attach-count span {
color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-reco
#yiv8350447941reco-head {
color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-reco {
margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-sponsor #yiv8350447941ov
li a {
font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-sponsor #yiv8350447941ov
li {
font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-sponsor #yiv8350447941ov
ul {
margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-text {
font-family:Georgia;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-text p {
margin:0 0 1em 0;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-text tt {
font-size:120%;}

#yiv8350447941 #yiv8350447941ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {
border-right:none !important;
}
#yiv8350447941

On Mon, 26 Dec 2016 14:00:31 -0500, you wrote:

>YES
>its called the PANTUM laser printer brand new for $34
>
>https://youtu.be/WQ0QPcXfuPo
>

If you buy a new laser printer, then I'd consider direct printing if
it's a known one that can be modified to do this, otherwise, all
you're interested in would be the fuser assembly. The temperature
controller is on the main board, so you would have to roll your own.
Generally an Arduino would do well enough for this. However you
decide to drive the roller is up to you. The advantages of this
approach is that if you are going to stay with paper based toner
transfer, you get a laminator that is designed for the high
temperatures.

Harvey

>
>
>On 12/26/2016 10:20 AM, Harvey White madyn@...
>[Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 25 Dec 2016 22:43:13 -0700, you wrote:
>>
>> >The Harbor Freight laminator doesn't get hot enough for the Brother
>> >toner. In the process of raising the temperature I managed to soften the
>> >gears to the point where they no longer turned the rollers. Replacing
>> >the plastic gears with metal ones solves that problem, but only if the
>> >plastic supports for the shafts are made of a higher temperature plastic.
>> >
>> >I am not familiar with the GBC laminator, except through reading about
>> >it here in the group, so I don't know about what kind of gears it has.
>> >If it works, don't fix it.
>>
>> Has anyone considered buying a junked laser printer from a thrift
>> store, and using the fuser assembly?
>>
>> It would need some mechanical and electrical work, but that's what
>> you're talking about anyway, just perhaps a bit more....
>>
>> (the other) Harvey
>>
>> >
>> >Harvey
>> >
>> >
>> >On 12/25/2016 8:35 PM, me@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
>> >>
>> >> What is the advantage to swapping out gears? I have been using a GBC
>> >> Heatseal H212 for a number of years now with no issues. The only
>> >> modification I made was to remove some guides to allow the PCB to pass
>> >> through.
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>

1) Doing doublesided is not easy.
2) The toner costs more than the printer
3) You only get a sample toner cartridge in the printer
4) There are no chip counter  hacks on the market for this printer when refilling toner.
5) I've been considering hacking the chip to allow perpetual Toner  refills, but I need a printer first.
Ancel

On 26 Dec 2016 13:31:09 -0800, you wrote:

>1) Doing doublesided is not easy.

Double sided is easy enough, but the accuracy of the top vs bottom is
critical.

in EAGLE (which I use), you have to mirror and often rotate the board.
The idea is that the top and bottom when printed go over the same spot
on the paper going through the printer. Seems to be better that way.

I have 0.020 (or so) board, single sided, FR4.

I print the top and bottom separately.

I also have an upside down drill press which allows very precise hole
placement. For the alignment holes (use 3, not 4), this is absolutely
critical.

I use stiff pins when placing top and bottom together, along with
holes that are a very small amount smaller than the pins. The
accuracy of the alignment is (guess...) critical.

I use 1 hour cure epoxy (hard to find now), even the 5 minute stuff
takes 24 hours to cure completely.

I place the top over the bottom, having first covered the entire
copper surface with masking tape. It keeps the epoxy fingerprints
off... (don't ask).

Once the boards are sandwiched together, I tape them along the edges
to maintain alignment, then I remove the pins.

the boards are allowed to cure between two ceramic/marble floor tiles,
which are pretty flat, heavy, and cheap.

24 hours later, remove tape, drill, and you should get pretty accurate
holes. I use a #78 drill for vias, and 0.023 (I think) for the via
pads. Naturally, with this method, I never place a via underneath a
chip or any component.

I then lace the board top and bottom together with #26 solid wire,
solder both sides, then cut.

a result is reliable boards with 10/10 spacing, double sided, but
without plated through holes.

Works well enough, but is a lot of steps.

Harvey

>2) The toner costs more than the printer
>3) You only get a sample toner cartridge in the printer
>4) There are no chip counter hacks on the market for this printer when refilling toner.
>5) I've been considering hacking the chip to allow perpetual Toner refills, but I need a printer first.
>Ancel

We've been down this road.
The PANTUM print 700 times then done.
For $34 I'll take 700 prints on just PCBs....
then spend $50 on the 1,000 print toner cartridge.
Numbers like these would last me  years.

 

1) Doing doublesided is not easy.
2) The toner costs more than the printer
3) You only get a sample toner cartridge in the printer
4) There are no chip counter  hacks on the market for this printer when refilling toner.
5) I've been considering hacking the chip to allow perpetual Toner  refills, but I need a printer first.
Ancel

I got an HP1102W in 2011 for $99.....Toner refills are a few bux....6 years later I'm still going strong on it.

I would never dispute the fact that a toner cartridge that counts images and dies at 700 prints is
a screwed up problem.
BUT
THE REASON TO USE THE PANTUM AT ALL IS BECAUSE THIS PRINTER HAS BEEN DOCUMENTED
SOUP TO NUTS HOW TO EASILY HACK IT APART AND MAKE IT PRINT TO COPPER
NOBODY
NOBODY did this with any other printer so far that makes it actually feasible to go buy that printer and
do the hack per the detailed guidance of the hack author.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Modification-of-the-Pantum-2502W-for-Direct-Laser-/

IF you
HAVE A BETTER laser printer hack documented then please share.
If NOT then
this PANTUM hack is good enough for me...even if I have to pay $50 for  toner.
 
Perhaps with time and all of us tearing into these machines somebody may invent the
counter hack.
Considering the caliber of the engineers dabbling with these electronics gadgets hacks I figure its only a matter of time.


 

 

I got an HP1102W in 2011 for $99.....Toner refills are a few bux....6 years later I'm still going strong on it.

Google "epoxy for gears". Particularly check out: Make your own Timing Pulley from epoxy

 

Craig

Mark Lerman did the DLP, I figure if you're going to futz about rebuilding a laminator with custom gearing and then futz about even more adding foil and then futz about touching up the pinholes in that, you might as well hack a $50 printer in the first place.

You can't use a fuser from a laser printer because the rollers aren't far enough apart to allow for a PCB, and can't easily be adjusted.

However if you're set on modifying a laminator, modifying a fuser would be less work - the parts are already rated to handle the heat.

Note that Lerman's DLP method doesn't use the fuser anyway, the toner on the copper board needs to be fused after printing. Someone figured out suspending it above some acetone will cause the acetone vapours to fuse the toner after a few minutes, at which point you're ready to etch.

Tony

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, 27 December 2016 3:00 AM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Metal laminator gears
>
> Harvey,
>
> That’s what DLP (Direct Laser Printing) PCB is all about.
> There was a lot of messages about this technique a while back.
> I forgot who was the main poster about it, but there were description for
> modifying the laser to direct print the artwork on the copper clad board.
>
> You might want to search through the archive for DLP.
>
> Just my $0.02,
> Jean-Paul
> N1JPL
>
>
>
> > On Dec 26, 2016, at 10:20 AM, Harvey White madyn@...
> [Homebrew_PCBs] <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, 25 Dec 2016 22:43:13 -0700, you wrote:
> >
> > >The Harbor Freight laminator doesn't get hot enough for the Brother
> > >toner. In the process of raising the temperature I managed to soften
> > >the gears to the point where they no longer turned the rollers.
> > >Replacing the plastic gears with metal ones solves that problem, but
> > >only if the plastic supports for the shafts are made of a higher temperature
> plastic.
> > >
> > >I am not familiar with the GBC laminator, except through reading
> > >about it here in the group, so I don't know about what kind of gears it has.
> > >If it works, don't fix it.
> >
> > Has anyone considered buying a junked laser printer from a thrift
> > store, and using the fuser assembly?
> >
> > It would need some mechanical and electrical work, but that's what
> > you're talking about anyway, just perhaps a bit more....
> >
> > (the other) Harvey
> >
> > >
> > >Harvey
> > >
> > >
> > >On 12/25/2016 8:35 PM, me@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
> > >>
> > >> What is the advantage to swapping out gears? I have been using a
> > >> GBC Heatseal H212 for a number of years now with no issues. The
> > >> only modification I made was to remove some guides to allow the PCB
> > >> to pass through.
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: Jean-Paul Louis <louijp@...>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>

YES... Mark Lerman is the pointman here.
BUT
AMAZON will sell you a LEXMARK E260D for $450
which is not the kind of money I spend on something I am going to chop apart for a hobby hack.

I'm futzing with toner transfer for hobby electronics.... ham radio....and.. this kitchen etching  is new to me.
So when I found that I could use my laminator instead of a clothes iron I went down that path
and melted the gear .....
which then had me looking into how to get around this plastic gear problem.

I did by taking the motor and laminator temperature hack OUT of the equation all together
by using heavy metal that I already had here:
http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/hotcakes.html

The TONER REACTIVE FOIL futzing is just some more education about the available methods to get great
results WITHOUT buying any specialty products.

I'm just totally sick of getting mugged by technology.
I walked into Walmart with my grandchildren to buy a laser printer FOR THEM  and found nothing less than $100 while at the same time knowing I bought my PANTUM online..delivered in two days from NJ...for $34. The idea was to have the kids draw the artwork and then use that artwork to make pad printing
plates.... lithography craftwork.


So when 
  http://www.pcbfx.com/main_site/pages/products/toner_foils.html
wants to sell 15 feet of GREEN TRF for $9
I have to ask the question "WHAT IS green TRF made of ?"
and more importantly... how the hell does TRF do this magical melt under heat but only stick to toner?

So stumbling around the craft TRF users and their videos I sort of figured this could be the same stuff....
and readily available for less money from craft sources.

And the TRF is good for all sorts of craftiness... on the top of the PCB too.
 


Aug 13, 2014 - Mark Lerman has pioneered this method with his conversion of a ... of his conversion of a Lexmark E260 for direct laser printing to PCB stock.

 

Mark Lerman did the DLP, I figure if you're going to futz about rebuilding a laminator with custom gearing and then futz about even more adding foil and then futz about touching up the pinholes in that, you might as well hack a $50 printer in the first place.

You can't use a fuser from a laser printer because the rollers aren't far enough apart to allow for a PCB, and can't easily be adjusted.

However if you're set on modifying a laminator, modifying a fuser would be less work - the parts are already rated to handle the heat.

Note that Lerman's DLP method doesn't use the fuser anyway, the toner on the copper board needs to be fused after printing. Someone figured out suspending it above some acetone will cause the acetone vapours to fuse the toner after a few minutes, at which point you're ready to etch.

Tony