Homebrew_PCBs

Not sure if the dating on this make a difference......
I bought HEWLETT PACKARD
Disposable Liquid-Ink drafting Pens
.5mm Medium Point   HP Part no 5061-7620

says For use on paper or vellum only on the package

and drew on copper .5 mm traces.

The ink looked very wet so I did two passes and let it dry on a heater vent.

Then.... etched in peroxide and muriatic acid.

All the black traces looked intact until the very last etching copper disappeared
BUT
one swipe with a light touch makeup brush simple wiped away the black traces to reveal ZERO
copper under the ink traces.

The package said USE BEFORE JAN 1992 so perhaps I would get a different result from
TODAYs inks instead of using 25 year old ink. Who knows if they even use the same chemistry now.
But for paper.... these are really nice pens.
 

There are still shops that sell resist ink that can be used in plotters. Cleaning and filling a pen is a PITA though. Now I'm trying the paint a board and laser burn it off route. Traces are getting really small in my work.

On 11/21/2016 8:56 PM, Rob roomberg@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:

>
>
> Not sure if the dating on this make a difference......
> I bought HEWLETT PACKARD
> Disposable Liquid-Ink drafting Pens
> .5mm Medium Point HP Part no 5061-7620...

<snip>

> ...The package said USE BEFORE JAN 1992 so perhaps I would get a different
> result from
> TODAYs inks instead of using 25 year old ink. Who knows if they even use
> the same chemistry now.
> But for paper.... these are really nice pens.
>

Hello--

I dimly recall investigating the use of an HP 7475 pen plotter for
ink-on-copperclad
direct trace layout-- the time frame would have been in the very early
1990s. There
was a fairly substantial amount of correspondence on whatever newsgroup
existed back then, and someone from Canada recommended using a red
plotter ink made by Stadler (sp?) which provided very good etchant
resistance.

I attempted to purchase some of the ink, only to be told by the local
drafting-supplies
seller that the ink contained a toxic ingredient that made its sale
illegal here in the U.S.
However, the ink was still available in Europe.

At that point, other projects diverted my attention and I lost track of
the original correspondence. If someone in the group was active back
then, perhaps they
recall using the ink?

73--

Brad AA1IP

I think magenta was the magic color. Modern epson printers can use it too. Fairly impervious for etching as it was for "anti-acid archival prints", whatever that means.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
> Sent: 22 November 2016 02:36
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] HP technical pen ink does not work for
> etching
>
> On 11/21/2016 8:56 PM, Rob roomberg@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
> >
> >
> > Not sure if the dating on this make a difference......
> > I bought HEWLETT PACKARD
> > Disposable Liquid-Ink drafting Pens
> > .5mm Medium Point HP Part no 5061-7620...
>
> <snip>
> > ...The package said USE BEFORE JAN 1992 so perhaps I would get a
> > different result from TODAYs inks instead of using 25 year old ink.
> > Who knows if they even use the same chemistry now.
> > But for paper.... these are really nice pens.
> >
> Hello--
>
> I dimly recall investigating the use of an HP 7475 pen plotter for ink-on-
> copperclad direct trace layout-- the time frame would have been in the very
> early 1990s. There was a fairly substantial amount of correspondence on
> whatever newsgroup existed back then, and someone from Canada
> recommended using a red plotter ink made by Stadler (sp?) which provided
> very good etchant resistance.

I have an HP7475 plotter. I have once used a much modified RED Lumicolor pen to make one test board, and found the etch time fairly critical, but I would say it was usable with some tunning.
I would say it would probably work with refinement but a fine pen takes a long time to fill the lands on the plotter.
This must be around 2 or three years ago.

>
> I attempted to purchase some of the ink, only to be told by the local drafting-
> supplies seller that the ink contained a toxic ingredient that made its sale
> illegal here in the U.S.
> However, the ink was still available in Europe.

The refill ink appears to be available on Amazon in the USA:-

https://www.amazon.com/Staedtler-Lumocolor-Permanent-Refill-Station/dp/B000WH0ZLA

but of course, the inks for the USA may be different

>
> At that point, other projects diverted my attention and I lost track of the
> original correspondence. If someone in the group was active back then,
> perhaps they recall using the ink?

I read the articles and tried myself. My big problem with this method is that I don't have a big demand for making boards, the Plotter is slow, especially on big fills.
I am currently investigating using my 3D printer with a Dremel for PCB production.

>
> 73--
>
> Brad AA1IP
>

Dave Wade
G4UGM & EA7KAE

I'm not looking to plot a massive circuit.
I just wanted to find the right ink for a .5mm technical pen
or
fine point marker
that would draw a trace on copper and resist acid etching.
FOR
touching up any missing or damaged TONER TRANSFERed traces.

I found that standard sharpies dry out and stop depositing ink.
I found that STAEDTLER LUMOCOLOR permanent 313 BLACK and GREEN ink
worked great...flowed freely..resisted etching......
so
I thought it would be interesting to see if there was an indutry standard
.5mm drafting pen ink that performed the same acid resist.

 

> recommended using a red plotter ink made by Stadler (sp?) which provided

> very good etchant resistance.

I have an HP7475 plotter. I have once used a much modified RED Lumicolor pen to make one test board, and found the etch time fairly critical, but I would say it was usable with some tunning.
I would say it would probably work with refinement but a fine pen takes a long time to fill the lands on the plotter.
This must be around 2 or three years ago.

MIS PRO magenta or yellow, but yellow is reported to work better as an etch resist.



 

I'm not looking to plot a massive circuit.
I just wanted to find the right ink for a .5mm technical pen
or
fine point marker
that would draw a trace on copper and resist acid etching.
FOR
touching up any missing or damaged TONER TRANSFERed traces.

I found that standard sharpies dry out and stop depositing ink.
I found that STAEDTLER LUMOCOLOR permanent 313 BLACK and GREEN ink
worked great...flowed freely..resisted etching......
so
I thought it would be interesting to see if there was an indutry standard
.5mm drafting pen ink that performed the same acid resist.

On 11/22/2016 04:44 AM, 'Dave Wade' dave.g4ugm@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:

 

> recommended using a red plotter ink made by Stadler (sp?) which provided

> very good etchant resistance.

I have an HP7475 plotter. I have once used a much modified RED Lumicolor pen to make one test board, and found the etch time fairly critical, but I would say it was usable with some tunning.
I would say it would probably work with refinement but a fine pen takes a long time to fill the lands on the plotter.
This must be around 2 or three years ago.