Homebrew_PCBs

Many of the old PCBs were made with phenolic PCB material.  The color varies between brown to various shades of beige.

You can still purchase bare (blank) copper-clad phenolic PCB material.

Another characteristic of old PCBs is that the layout is often done by hand, using crepe dots and crepe tape in various widths.  Even earlier layouts were strictly hand-drawn - no tape or dots.

dwayne


At 01:08 PM 11/12/2016, 'Brad' unclefalter@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:

Hey guys,
 
I have recently heard of some methods of �dyeing� PCBs to achieve coloration closer to what vintage PCB stock looked like.  I�m wondering if any of you have experience on this, what works, etc.
 
I recently acquired some original, untouched Mark-8 computer boards: http://bradhodge.ca/blog/?p=826
 
I�m hoping to use them to help create replicas.  But I just can�t get the PCB to look the way I want.  They look too modern.   I�ve heard dyeing can help, and that one can even fake the fab house marks somehow.
 
I�m surprised there isn�t a stock of vintage copper clad out there somewhere.  Seems to be vintage everything else these days in electronics..
 
Brad

--

Dwayne Reid   <dwayner@...>

Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA

780-489-3199 voice   780-487-6397 fax   888-489-3199 Toll Free

www.trinity-electronics.com

Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing

I had to replicate some boards in some gambling machines once. It had to look exactly like the original for legal reasons. We had to order dyable pcbs, get capacitors of the same color, etc. and make some rubber stamps to emulate the old board house markings(in japanese no less) on the phenolic. They were close enough to match an old photo, but right next to an original you could tell right away. The board house was pretty funny when we asked for unplated through holes and no tin/nickel plating. For a lot more money the board house would've made the raw boards the exact color and silkscreen the fiberglass before the copper.
Good luck to you and let us know how it turns out.

On Tue, 15 Nov 2016 20:23:55 -0800, you wrote:

>Thanks Dwayne. The phenolics I've looked at online (mostly ebay) are as you
>say, brown. I'm curious how we arrive at a green color like the originals I
>have.
>
>
>
>The color situation has been most frustrating - pictures are not reliable of
>course - on websites I see what looks like almost the exact color but in
>samples it's completely wrong.
>
>
>
>When you speak of dots and tape, you're referring to prototype boards or
>production?

Twice (or 4x) black crepe paper tape and black dots on acetate,
photographed onto Kodalith film (reduction to life size) used as a
master negative for photoetching.

For dual side boards, they had a red and blue transparent tape that
was photographed with panchromatic film (not ortho), and illuminated
with the complementary color of light.

There's a very distinctive style that dates the boards.

Can be used for prototypes or production, since it depends only on how
many you want to make.

Harvey

>
>
>
>From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 9:41 AM
>To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Dyeing PCBs for a vintage look
>
>
>
>
>
>Many of the old PCBs were made with phenolic PCB material. The color varies
>between brown to various shades of beige.
>
>You can still purchase bare (blank) copper-clad phenolic PCB material.
>
>Another characteristic of old PCBs is that the layout is often done by hand,
>using crepe dots and crepe tape in various widths. Even earlier layouts
>were strictly hand-drawn - no tape or dots.
>
>dwayne
>
>
>At 01:08 PM 11/12/2016, 'Brad' unclefalter@...
><mailto:unclefalter@...> [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
>
>Hey guys,
>
>I have recently heard of some methods of 'dyeing' PCBs to achieve coloration
>closer to what vintage PCB stock looked like. I'm wondering if any of you
>have experience on this, what works, etc.
>
>I recently acquired some original, untouched Mark-8 computer boards:
>http://bradhodge.ca/blog/?p=826
>
>I'm hoping to use them to help create replicas. But I just can't get the
>PCB to look the way I want. They look too modern. I've heard dyeing can
>help, and that one can even fake the fab house marks somehow.
>
>I'm surprised there isn't a stock of vintage copper clad out there
>somewhere. Seems to be vintage everything else these days in electronics..
>
>Brad
>
>

Back then we just went to a stationary store that made them. Nowadays I use a laser engraver to make stamps. The "natural" boards we dyed were just translucent, maybe just slightly off white.

Ghost green FR-4 is the color I recall. Hopefully the picture uploads.

Is it possible that some of those vintage green
boards were epoxy glass and not phenolic?

My impression of it always has been that epoxy glass
is a much more durable and high quality material, where
as the phenolic tends to be brittle and cheap.

>
>
>---- Original Message ----
>From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [POSSIBLE SPAM] RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Dyeing PCBs for a
>vintage look
>Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2016 05:33:29 -0800
>
>>Back then we just went to a stationary store that made them.
>Nowadays I use
>>a laser engraver to make stamps. The "natural" boards we dyed were
>just
>>translucent, maybe just slightly off white.
>>
>>On Nov 15, 2016 8:27 PM, "'Brad' unclefalter@...
>[Homebrew_PCBs]" <
>>Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I was wondering about emulating the board house markings.. that’d
>really
>>> help with both my TVT and Mark-8 clones. How did you go about
>having the
>>> stamp made?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So you dyed the PCBs yourselves? I’ve tried making enquiries with
>board
>>> houses about getting the right color material made but they just
>look at me
>>> funny or the samples they send end up being way off. I don’t know
>why it’s
>>> so hard to produce a shade of green that was literally everywhere
>in the
>>> mid-70s. I’m told that shade was considered ‘natural’.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@
>>> yahoogroups.com]
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 15, 2016 10:11 AM
>>> *To:* Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Dyeing PCBs for a vintage look
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I had to replicate some boards in some gambling machines once. It
>had to
>>> look exactly like the original for legal reasons. We had to order
>dyable
>>> pcbs, get capacitors of the same color, etc. and make some rubber
>stamps to
>>> emulate the old board house markings(in japanese no less) on the
>phenolic.
>>> They were close enough to match an old photo, but right next to an
>original
>>> you could tell right away. The board house was pretty funny when
>we asked
>>> for unplated through holes and no tin/nickel plating. For a lot
>more money
>>> the board house would've made the raw boards the exact color and
>silkscreen
>>> the fiberglass before the copper.
>>> Good luck to you and let us know how it turns out.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 15, 2016 9:41 AM, "Dwayne Reid dwayner@...
>>> [Homebrew_PCBs]" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Many of the old PCBs were made with phenolic PCB material. The
>color
>>> varies between brown to various shades of beige.
>>>
>>> You can still purchase bare (blank) copper-clad phenolic PCB
>material.
>>>
>>> Another characteristic of old PCBs is that the layout is often
>done by
>>> hand, using crepe dots and crepe tape in various widths. Even
>earlier
>>> layouts were strictly hand-drawn - no tape or dots.
>>>
>>> dwayne
>>>
>>>
>>> At 01:08 PM 11/12/2016, 'Brad' unclefalter@...
>[Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey guys,
>>>
>>> I have recently heard of some methods of ‘dyeing’ PCBs to achieve
>>> coloration closer to what vintage PCB stock looked like. I’m
>wondering if
>>> any of you have experience on this, what works, etc.
>>>
>>> I recently acquired some original, untouched Mark-8 computer
>boards:
>>> http://bradhodge.ca/blog/?p=826
>>>
>>> I’m hoping to use them to help create replicas. But I just can’t
>get the
>>> PCB to look the way I want. They look too modern. I’ve heard
>dyeing can
>>> help, and that one can even fake the fab house marks somehow.
>>>
>>> I’m surprised there isn’t a stock of vintage copper clad out there
>>> somewhere. Seems to be vintage everything else these days in
>electronics..
>>>
>>> Brad
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Dwayne Reid <dwayner@...>
>>>
>>> Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd Edmonton, AB, CANADA
>>>
>>> 780-489-3199 voice 780-487-6397 fax 888-489-3199 Toll Free
>>>
>>> www.trinity-electronics.com
>>>
>>> Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

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I think it's now considered "chassis" or front panel material. That off green, nearly pastel seaweed color. HP probably still has the color code somewhere in their archives. I remember that color like it was yesterday. The "new" boards(90's) were the modern green. The old or milspec/aviation boards were that translucent bluish green. As for dying them, I recall the company that made "oaktree" solvent made dyes for fiberglass. I don't think oaktree is available to civilians even 30 years later, but the dyes should be. The solvent was the only earthly thing I've ever seen that could "unpot" full millspec/visa code chip assemblies, fully embedded in xray proof epoxy. I think that stuff was $1k a quart. The dye was as cheap as any other dye.