Homebrew_PCBs

Hi all,

I'm normally just lurking but I thought I would share this tip. I had run out Orange Dry Peel Negative Film, the solution I found was to use Photosensitive Dry Film on some laser drafting film the only problem I had was to find the correct temperature on my laminator which terned out to be a lot lower than I use for copper clad board. there's is no need to stock "Orange Dry Peel Negativ film" and its cheep.

This all came about as a  friend asked me to eatch some some brass name plate for his 2" traction engine as he new I make my own PCB,s. Not a problem I thought, well I used Photosensitive Dry Film on the brass sheet, as the brass was rather thick I had to tern up the temperature on my laminator to get good adhesion. 

 

You need to use Silver Sharpies and make sure the ink is dry.

 

I got a package of five "Sharpie Precision" precision markers from Staples.   Also marked "Ultra Fine".   The package contained two black markers.   The other ones were green, blue, and red.

The black marker draws a line 1/60 in. wide,, or 17 mil.

Heating season has begun, so today I started boiling water to add moisture to the air.

HTH,
Alan

>
>
> I was hoping to find a marker that could leave a finer line.
> I am getting a real fat line with a sharpie.
> So I was hoping a new sharpie might leave enough inck for a thinner line.
> This is too fat for DIP pins:
> http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/pic/PIC16F628PROTO8d.jpg
> It works but is tight.
> http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/hotcakes.html

>
>
> What's wrong with erasing shields? I still occasionally use one & just
> showed SWMBO the benefits of an Opaline bag for a pencil sketching class
> she's taking on line.
>

 

On 11/12/2016 10:38 PM, roylowenthal@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
>
>
> What's wrong with erasing shields? I still occasionally use one & just
> showed SWMBO the benefits of an Opaline bag for a pencil sketching class
> she's taking on line.
>
Hello, Roy and the group--

Nothing, really-- In response to Bob Roomberg's experiments with marker pens
as dispensers of resist for PC-board paths, an erasing shield might
serve as a
"mask" or template for creation of uniform traces on handmade boards.
Press the shield to the copperclad, drag a marking pen over the
appropriate opening in the shield, and you *might* have straighter and
better-looking traces.

As for the Opaline bag, I think there's one in my supplies cabinet,
along with a motor-driven eraser that can chew its way through a sheet
of paper in no time at all if
carelessly used<g>.

73--

Brad AA1IP

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
> Sent: 13 November 2016 00:49
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SHARPIE PERMANENT MARKER ETCH
> TEST finer lines
>
> On 11/12/2016 9:43 AM, Rob roomberg@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
> >
> >
> > I was hoping to find a marker that could leave a finer line.
> > I am getting a real fat line with a sharpie.
> > So I was hoping a new sharpie might leave enough inck for a thinner line.
> > This is too fat for DIP pins:
> > http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/pic/PIC16F628PROTO8d.jpg
> > It works but is tight.
> > http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/hotcakes.html
>
> Hello--
>
> At the risk of revealing the era in which I learned technical drawing (*), how
> about using an erasing shield?
>
> http://drawsketch.about.com/od/materials/ss/erasershield.htm
>
> The online auction site lists a bunch of sources for $.99 on up...
>
> 252478256009
>
> (Usual disclaimers apply.) Also, I haven't tried this due to displacement of my
> drafting kit<g>.
>
> In theory, the marker ink shouldn't spread under the shield and smear, but if
> so, applying some tape on the under side to raise the shield off the
> copperclad might work.
>
> 73--
>
> Brad AA1IP
>
> (*) I worked on the crew that invented Fire....<g>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: Brad Thompson <brad.thompson@...>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>

 

I believe that some of the Staedtler waterproof markers were reasonably etch resistant, may not be this exact one..

https://www.staedtler.co.uk/en/products/markers-refill-ink/universal-pens/lumocolor-permanent-pen-313-permanent-universal-pen-s/

some folks sell these as etch resist on E-Bay..

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121477899315

but they are available with fine tips.

Dave

These are what folks used to recommend
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
> Sent: 13 November 2016 00:49
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SHARPIE PERMANENT MARKER ETCH
> TEST finer lines
>
> On 11/12/2016 9:43 AM, Rob roomberg@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
> >
> >
> > I was hoping to find a marker that could leave a finer line.
> > I am getting a real fat line with a sharpie.
> > So I was hoping a new sharpie might leave enough inck for a thinner line.
> > This is too fat for DIP pins:
> > http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/pic/PIC16F628PROTO8d.jpg
> > It works but is tight.
> > http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/hotcakes.html
>
> Hello--
>
> At the risk of revealing the era in which I learned technical drawing (*), how
> about using an erasing shield?
>
> http://drawsketch.about.com/od/materials/ss/erasershield.htm
>
> The online auction site lists a bunch of sources for $.99 on up...
>
> 252478256009
>
> (Usual disclaimers apply.) Also, I haven't tried this due to displacement of my
> drafting kit<g>.
>
> In theory, the marker ink shouldn't spread under the shield and smear, but if
> so, applying some tape on the under side to raise the shield off the
> copperclad might work.
>
> 73--
>
> Brad AA1IP
>
> (*) I worked on the crew that invented Fire....<g>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: Brad Thompson <brad.thompson@...>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Rob roomberg@... [Homebrew_PCBs]

To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2016 8:27 PM

Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SHARPIE PERMANENT MARKER ETCH TEST finer lines

 

THANK YOU for the suggestion.

I'll have them here in a few days.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/262038010827

On 11/13/2016 03:48 AM, 'Dave Wade' dave.g4ugm@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:

 

I believe that some of the Staedtler waterproof markers were reasonably etch resistant, may not be this exact one..

https://www.staedtler.co.uk/en/products/markers-refill-ink/universal-pens/lumocolor-permanent-pen-313-permanent-universal-pen-s/

some folks sell these as etch resist on E-Bay..

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121477899315

but they are available with fine tips.

Dave

These are what folks used to recommend
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
> Sent: 13 November 2016 00:49
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SHARPIE PERMANENT MARKER ETCH
> TEST finer lines
>
> On 11/12/2016 9:43 AM, Rob roomberg@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
> >
> >
> > I was hoping to find a marker that could leave a finer line.
> > I am getting a real fat line with a sharpie.
> > So I was hoping a new sharpie might leave enough inck for a thinner line.
> > This is too fat for DIP pins:
> > http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/pic/PIC16F628PROTO8d.jpg
> > It works but is tight.
> > http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/hotcakes.html
>
> Hello--
>
> At the risk of revealing the era in which I learned technical drawing (*), how
> about using an erasing shield?
>
> http://drawsketch.about.com/od/materials/ss/erasershield.htm
>
> The online auction site lists a bunch of sources for $.99 on up...
>
> 252478256009
>
> (Usual disclaimers apply.) Also, I haven't tried this due to displacement of my
> drafting kit<g>.
>
> In theory, the marker ink shouldn't spread under the shield and smear, but if
> so, applying some tape on the under side to raise the shield off the
> copperclad might work.
>
> 73--
>
> Brad AA1IP
>
> (*) I worked on the crew that invented Fire....<g>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: Brad Thompson <brad.thompson@...>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>

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www.avast.com

 



 

The staedtler lumocolor permanent pen 313 permanent (RED)  0.4 line works for me

The black didn't work in ferric chloride

Regards

Craig VK2ZCM

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Rob roomberg@... [Homebrew_PCBs]

To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2016 8:27 PM

Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SHARPIE PERMANENT MARKER ETCH TEST finer lines

 

THANK YOU for the suggestion.

I'll have them here in a few days.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/262038010827

On 11/13/2016 03:48 AM, 'Dave Wade' dave.g4ugm@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:

 

I believe that some of the Staedtler waterproof markers were reasonably etch resistant, may not be this exact one..

https://www.staedtler.co.uk/en/products/markers-refill-ink/universal-pens/lumocolor-permanent-pen-313-permanent-universal-pen-s/

some folks sell these as etch resist on E-Bay..

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121477899315

but they are available with fine tips.

Dave

These are what folks used to recommend
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
> Sent: 13 November 2016 00:49
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SHARPIE PERMANENT MARKER ETCH
> TEST finer lines
>
> On 11/12/2016 9:43 AM, Rob roomberg@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
> >
> >
> > I was hoping to find a marker that could leave a finer line.
> > I am getting a real fat line with a sharpie.
> > So I was hoping a new sharpie might leave enough inck for a thinner line.
> > This is too fat for DIP pins:
> > http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/pic/PIC16F628PROTO8d.jpg
> > It works but is tight.
> > http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/hotcakes.html
>
> Hello--
>
> At the risk of revealing the era in which I learned technical drawing (*), how
> about using an erasing shield?
>
> http://drawsketch.about.com/od/materials/ss/erasershield.htm
>
> The online auction site lists a bunch of sources for $.99 on up...
>
> 252478256009
>
> (Usual disclaimers apply.) Also, I haven't tried this due to displacement of my
> drafting kit<g>.
>
> In theory, the marker ink shouldn't spread under the shield and smear, but if
> so, applying some tape on the under side to raise the shield off the
> copperclad might work.
>
> 73--
>
> Brad AA1IP
>
> (*) I worked on the crew that invented Fire....<g>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: Brad Thompson <brad.thompson@...>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

 

Yes. I used them for a couple of years and even installed them in my Roland plotter to plot circuit boards. They did an excellent job (if you were lucky) and if the correct ink is used it is VERY resistant to etch. This was my only method of making boards during that time. But then I got a laser printer and abandoned the plotter and ink method in favor of toner transfer. I would never go back and quite frankly I'm not sure why anyone is considering going back to markers and technical pens when toner transfer works so well.

   The technical pens and plotter were simply a pain in the butt. I was using the smallest ones available (0.3mm I believe) and they had to be taken apart and cleaned after every use. There was an extremely fine wire inside used as an ink release valve and it was sure to get bent when dis-assembled. The pens required special cleaner to dissolve the ink. The pens frequently skipped when used on copper (rather than paper as intended).

 For what it's worth Eagle can still generate plot files for the Roland plotters but the plotters require a parallel port (rare these days) and drivers for same AFAIK do not exist for the plotters any more.

 

 Forget the markers etc. and use toner transfer, it's cheap and easy.

 

 

 

 

For touch ups I would suggest, with the right ink, the technical pen would be far superior to a sharpie because you can just set the pen tip down and ink will flow. No need to rub it around. I always found sharpies difficult to get a good / durable layer built up. The tech pen ink used to be much more resistant to etch as well. I see the bottle I have is Staedtler #485 23SAR-9. The R may be a P. There's a bit of ink dried on the container. A google search on anything to do with technical pens draws a blank as far as I can see. Staedtler does still have a selection of "sharpie" type markers that may be better than an actual Sharpie.

 I believe they also had a technical pen ink that was used somehow in the ceramics industry. Maybe to autograph mugs or something?

That may be another place to look for a good ink.

 

Sage

 

 

Has anybody tried using a technical pen & one of the water resistant inks meant for drafting on film?

 < https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_pen >

Roy