Homebrew_PCBs

> On Oct 25, 2016, at 5:27 PM, Steve Greenfield alienrelics@... [Homebrew_PCBs] <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
> Anyone else see this Hackaday post about hacking a Pantum 2500 to direct print toner on PCBs?
> http://hackaday.com/2016/10/25/want-to-make-a-pcb-the-pantum-knows/
>
> The Pantum 2502W is under $40 with free shipping on Amazon and claims 1200x1200dpi resolution.
> https://www.amazon.com/Pantum-P2502W-Wireless-Monochrome-Printer/dp/B00N517VDK
>
>
>
>
> Steve Greenfield AE7HD http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevenjgreenfield
>
>

Anyone else see this Hackaday post about hacking a Pantum 2500 to direct print toner on PCBs?
http://hackaday.com/2016/10/25/want-to-make-a-pcb-the-pantum-knows/

The Pantum 2502W is under $40 with free shipping on Amazon and claims 1200x1200dpi resolution.
https://www.amazon.com/Pantum-P2502W-Wireless-Monochrome-Printer/dp/B00N517VDK



 
Steve Greenfield AE7HD http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevenjgreenfield

 

It's my Instructable they're quoting. I paid $25 each for a couple of these little printers, including shipping from Newegg. They conversion is relatively straightforward, and works very well. Anytime I want to do a board, I just pull it off the shelf and print. Works every time, no fuss or mess. I use acetone vapor to fuse the toner to the copper, so no laminator necessary.

Mark

At 05:27 PM 10/25/2016, you wrote:

Anyone else see this Hackaday post about hacking a Pantum 2500 to direct print toner on PCBs?
http://hackaday.com/2016/10/25/want-to-make-a-pcb-the-pantum-knows/

The Pantum 2502W is under $40 with free shipping on Amazon and claims 1200x1200dpi resolution.
https://www.amazon.com/Pantum-P2502W-Wireless-Monochrome-Printer/dp/B00N517VDK



 
Steve Greenfield AE7HD http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevenjgreenfield

what does that mean....  "acetone vapor to fuse"

On 10/26/2016 03:14 PM, Mark Lerman mlerman@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:

 


It's my Instructable they're quoting. I paid $25 each for a couple of these little printers, including shipping from Newegg. They conversion is relatively straightforward, and works very well. Anytime I want to do a board, I just pull it off the shelf and print. Works every time, no fuss or mess. I use acetone vapor to fuse the toner to the copper, so no laminator necessary.

Mark

At 05:27 PM 10/25/2016, you wrote:

Anyone else see this Hackaday post about hacking a Pantum 2500 to direct print toner on PCBs?
http://hackaday.com/2016/10/25/want-to-make-a-pcb-the-pantum-knows/

The Pantum 2502W is under $40 with free shipping on Amazon and claims 1200x1200dpi resolution.
https://www.amazon.com/Pantum-P2502W-Wireless-Monochrome-Printer/dp/B00N517VDK



 
Steve Greenfield AE7HD http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevenjgreenfield

 

The replacement toner cartridges hold a lot more toner than the one that comes in the printer. This is very common, and has been for over a decade for both inkjet and Laser printers, at least for some brands.

Steve Greenfield AE7HD

---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <louijp@...> wrote :

The sad part is that the toner cartridge cost more than a new printer.

Jean-Paul
N1JPL

The replacement toner cartridges hold a lot more toner than the one that comes in the printer. This is very common, and has been for over a decade for both inkjet and Laser printers, at least for some brands.

Steve Greenfield AE7HD


---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <louijp@...> wrote :

The sad part is that the toner cartridge cost more than a new printer.

Jean-Paul
N1JPL

On 29 Oct 2016 06:00:22 -0700, you wrote:

Nasty little trick in terms of the date stamp, it's a cheat and needs
to be illegal. At any rate, the MCR cart is likely to have iron
particles in the ink because of the use, it's not absolutely
guaranteed to be just plain plastic toner. (IMHO).

Magnetic ink is used in the check digit scanners for banking.

Harvey



>Unfortunately the cartridges are "branded" with the date when you put it into the printer, and after a year it will self-destruct no matter how much toner is in the cartridge. A really horrible, rotten thing to do, and a very real risk for a printer that's only used occasionally to make PCBs. --And no, there are no hacks to disable or reset the chip in the cartridge which might otherwise make this an amazing printer instead of a scam to force you to buy cartridges every year, more like renting a printer than owning one. It's very annoying since laser printers are not victim to having ink dry out and toner could conceivably remain viable for years, depending on the environment/humidity. I keep hoping someone will figure something out but as of yet nobody seems to have found a way to reset the page counter and prevent the carts from expiring. I've noticed that the prices for the printer are a bit higher than the $25 many people have reported, they go for close to $40 these days
on
>Amazon and $35 on Newegg. I figure it might be to persuade people not to buy another printer every time it runs out of toner since you can get a 1,000 page cart for $29.99 (Newegg).
> There is only one seller on eBay that is selling toner (70g) and reset chip combos (Which seems suspicious, however they are in the US and have a high rating). The combo is far more expensive ($65) than the 1600 page cart ($47.49 at Newegg) or 1000 page cart ($29.99 at Newegg). It is labeled as being "MICR" (Toner used to print checks), and repeat that several times like it was really important. In the description it says "Make sure You are buying " MICR (Megnetic) Check Toner." Strange. The same vendor also sells refurbished PB-210S ("economy" size, 1000 pages) for $94 with the reset chip installed/programmed, refurbished PB-211 (1600 pages) carts with the reset chip for $125, and a new printer+a starter toner cart with MICR toner for $108 (I guess they replaced the standard toner in a cart with MICR toner). Odd how the printer/starter combo costs less than the 1600 page cart...
> I've asked the seller several questions so I'll report back if I hear anything. There is zero info in the auction about how many pages 70g will print, what the page limit for the chip is, how to install the chip (Not even a picture of it), and whether the chip will expire after a year like the OEM cartridges.
> ...
> I just got a message from the seller, telling me this for the toner+chip combo:
>
>
> "are you going to print MICR ?
>
>
> this chip is for 1,000 pages for MICR"
>
>
> Nothing else, I will update the thread when I hear more.
>
>
> -Larry
>
>
>

 

Unfortunately the cartridges are "branded" with the date when you put it into the printer, and after a year it will self-destruct no matter how much toner is in the cartridge.  A really horrible, rotten thing to do, and a very real risk for a printer that's only used occasionally to make PCBs.  --And no, there are no hacks to disable or reset the chip in the cartridge which might otherwise make this an amazing printer instead of a scam to force you to buy cartridges every year, more like renting a printer than owning one.  It's very annoying since laser printers are not victim to having ink dry out and toner could conceivably remain viable for years, depending on the environment/humidity.  I keep hoping someone will figure something out but as of yet nobody seems to have found a way to reset the page counter and prevent the carts from expiring.  I've noticed that the prices for the printer are a bit higher than the $25 many peop le have reported, they go for close to $40 these days on Amazon and $35 on Newegg.  I figure it might be to persuade people not to buy another printer every time it runs out of toner since you can get a 1,000 page cart for $29.99 (Newegg).

There is only one seller on eBay that is selling toner (70g) and reset chip combos (Which seems suspicious, however they are in the US and have a high rating).  The combo is far more expensive ($65) than the 1600 page cart ($47.49 at Newegg) or 1000 page cart ($29.99 at Newegg).  It is labeled as being "MICR" (Toner used to print checks), and repeat that several times like it was really important.  In the description it says "Make sure You are buying " MICR (Megnetic) Check Toner."  Strange.  The same vendor also sells refurbished PB-210S ("economy" size, 1000 pages) for $94 with the reset chip installed/programmed, refurbished PB-211 (1600 pages) carts with the reset ch ip for $125, and a new printer+a starter toner cart with MICR toner for $108 (I guess they replaced the standard toner in a cart with MICR toner).  Odd how the printer/starter combo costs less than the 1600 page cart...

I've asked the seller several questions so I'll report back if I hear anything.  There is zero info in the auction about how many pages 70g will print, what the page limit for the chip is, how to install the chip (Not even a picture of it), and whether the chip will expire after a year like the OEM cartridges.

...

I just got a message from the seller, telling me this for the toner+chip combo:

"are you going to print MICR ?

this chip is for 1,000 pages for MICR"

Nothing else, I will update the thread when I hear more.

-Larry

Just a thought. Printing 1000 pages of checks using MICR ink, doesn't amount to a lot of toner. I print my own checks on standard check forms, three checks to a page. I don't bother with the MICR ink because the bank doesn't complain (yet) about processing the checks without it. There is far less printed on a page of checks than a page of text, so that a very small amount of toner would be required to print 1000 pages of checks, as compared to regular pages of text.

(The other) Harvey

 

It sounds nefarious.
Anyone selling refurbished $30 cartidges refilled with MICR Check toner has a niche market for check counterfeiting and is just looking to be busted.
Nobody who prints magnetic ink checks shops on EBAY for their toner source.

On 10/29/2016 09:00 AM, lbattraw@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:

 

Unfortunately the cartridges are "branded" with the date when you put it into the printer, and after a year it will self-destruct no matter how much toner is in the cartridge.  A really horrible, rotten thing to do, and a very real risk for a printer that's only used occasionally to make PCBs.  --And no, there are no hacks to disable or reset the chip in the cartridge which might otherwise make this an amazing printer instead of a scam to force you to buy cartridges every year, more like renting a printer than owning one.  It's very annoying since laser printers are not victim to having ink dry out and toner could conceivably remain viable for years, depending on the environment/humidity.  I keep hoping someone will figure something out but as of yet nobody seems to have found a way to reset the page counter and prevent the carts from expiring.  I've noticed that the prices for the printer are a bit higher than the $25 many peop le have reported, they go for close to $40 these days on Amazon and $35 on Newegg.  I figure it might be to persuade people not to buy another printer every time it runs out of toner since you can get a 1,000 page cart for $29.99 (Newegg).

There is only one seller on eBay that is selling toner (70g) and reset chip combos (Which seems suspicious, however they are in the US and have a high rating).  The combo is far more expensive ($65) than the 1600 page cart ($47.49 at Newegg) or 1000 page cart ($29.99 at Newegg).  It is labeled as being "MICR" (Toner used to print checks), and repeat that several times like it was really important.  In the description it says "Make sure You are buying " MICR (Megnetic) Check Toner."  Strange.  The same vendor also sells refurbished PB-210S ("economy" size, 1000 pages) for $94 with the reset chip installed/programmed, refurbished PB-211 (1600 pages) carts with the reset ch ip for $125, and a new printer+a starter toner cart with MICR toner for $108 (I guess they replaced the standard toner in a cart with MICR toner).  Odd how the printer/starter combo costs less than the 1600 page cart...

I've asked the seller several questions so I'll report back if I hear anything.  There is zero info in the auction about how many pages 70g will print, what the page limit for the chip is, how to install the chip (Not even a picture of it), and whether the chip will expire after a year like the OEM cartridges.

...

I just got a message from the seller, telling me this for the toner+chip combo:

"are you going to print MICR ?

this chip is for 1,000 pages for MICR"

Nothing else, I will update the thread when I hear more.

-Larry

> On Oct 29, 2016, at 5:49 PM, Harvey Altstadter hrconsult@... [Homebrew_PCBs] <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
> Just a thought. Printing 1000 pages of checks using MICR ink, doesn't amount to a lot of toner. I print my own checks on standard check forms, three checks to a page. I don't bother with the MICR ink because the bank doesn't complain (yet) about processing the checks without it. There is far less printed on a page of checks than a page of text, so that a very small amount of toner would be required to print 1000 pages of checks, as compared to regular pages of text.
>
> (The other) Harvey
>
>
> On 10/29/2016 10:13 AM, Rob roomberg@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
>>
>> It sounds nefarious.
>> Anyone selling refurbished $30 cartidges refilled with MICR Check toner has a niche market for check counterfeiting and is just looking to be busted.
>> Nobody who prints magnetic ink checks shops on EBAY for their toner source.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/29/2016 09:00 AM, lbattraw@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
>>>
>>> Unfortunately the cartridges are "branded" with the date when you put it into the printer, and after a year it will self-destruct no matter how much toner is in the cartridge. A really horrible, rotten thing to do, and a very real risk for a printer that's only used occasionally to make PCBs. --And no, there are no hacks to disable or reset the chip in the cartridge which might otherwise make this an amazing printer instead of a scam to force you to buy cartridges every year, more like renting a printer than owning one. It's very annoying since laser printers are not victim to having ink dry out and toner could conceivably remain viable for years, depending on the environment/humidity. I keep hoping someone will figure something out but as of yet nobody seems to have found a way to reset the page counter and prevent the carts from expiring. I've noticed that the prices for the printer are a bit higher than the $25 many peop le have reported, they go for close to $40 these days on Amazon and $35 on Newegg. I figure it might be to persuade people not to buy another printer every time it runs out of toner since you can get a 1,000 page cart for $29.99 (Newegg).
>>>
>>>
>>> There is only one seller on eBay that is selling toner (70g) and reset chip combos (Which seems suspicious, however they are in the US and have a high rating). The combo is far more expensive ($65) than the 1600 page cart ($47.49 at Newegg) or 1000 page cart ($29.99 at Newegg). It is labeled as being "MICR" (Toner used to print checks), and repeat that several times like it was really important. In the description it says "Make sure You are buying " MICR (Megnetic) Check Toner." Strange. The same vendor also sells refurbished PB-210S ("economy" size, 1000 pages) for $94 with the reset chip installed/programmed, refurbished PB-211 (1600 pages) carts with the reset ch ip for $125, and a new printer+a starter toner cart with MICR toner for $108 (I guess they replaced the standard toner in a cart with MICR toner). Odd how the printer/starter combo costs less than the 1600 page cart...
>>> I've asked the seller several questions so I'll report back if I hear anything. There is zero info in the auction about how many pages 70g will print, what the page limit for the chip is, how to install the chip (Not even a picture of it), and whether the chip will expire after a year like the OEM cartridges.
>>> ...
>>> I just got a message from the seller, telling me this for the toner+chip combo:
>>>
>>> "are you going to print MICR ?
>>>
>>> this chip is for 1,000 pages for MICR"
>>>
>>> Nothing else, I will update the thread when I hear more.
>>>
>>> -Larry
>>>
>>
>
>
>

My point is that if one wanted to print whole pages with these cartridges, they would get many, as the claim for 1000 pages of MICR ink implies very little toner per page. I also question the suitability of that toner for transfer use, as it has iron in it, which would probably screw up our etching processes.

 

Harvey,

The problem is not the number of pages, but the timing. After a year, your cartridge becomes obsolete according to the previous emails, even if you have not used all the toner.

Just my $0.02,

Jean-Paul
N1JPL

> On Oct 29, 2016, at 5:49 PM, Harvey Altstadter hrconsult@... [Homebrew_PCBs] <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
> Just a thought. Printing 1000 pages of checks using MICR ink, doesn't amount to a lot of toner. I print my own checks on standard check forms, three checks to a page. I don't bother with the MICR ink because the bank doesn't complain (yet) about processing the checks without it. There is far less printed on a page of checks than a page of text, so that a very small amount of toner would be required to print 1000 pages of checks, as compared to regular pages of text.
>
> (The other) Harvey
>
>
> On 10/29/2016 10:13 AM, Rob roomberg@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
>>
>> It sounds nefarious.
>> Anyone selling refurbished $30 cartidges refilled with MICR Check toner has a niche market for check counterfeiting and is just looking to be busted.
>> Nobody who prints magnetic ink checks shops on EBAY for their toner source.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/29/2016 09:00 AM, lbattraw@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
>>>
>>> Unfortunately the cartridges are "branded" with the date when you put it into the printer, and after a year it will self-destruct no matter how much toner is in the cartridge. A really horrible, rotten thing to do, and a very real risk for a printer that's only used occasionally to make PCBs. --And no, there are no hacks to disable or reset the chip in the cartridge which might otherwise make this an amazing printer instead of a scam to force you to buy cartridges every year, more like renting a printer than owning one. It's very annoying since laser printers are not victim to having ink dry out and toner could conceivably remain viable for years, depending on the environment/humidity. I keep hoping someone will figure something out but as of yet nobody seems to have found a way to reset the page counter and prevent the carts from expiring. I've noticed that the prices for the printer are a bit higher than the $25 many peop le have reported, they go for close to $40 these days on Amazon and $35 on Newegg. I figure it might be to persuade people not to buy another printer every time it runs out of toner since you can get a 1,000 page cart for $29.99 (Newegg).
>>>
>>>
>>> There is only one seller on eBay that is selling toner (70g) and reset chip combos (Which seems suspicious, however they are in the US and have a high rating). The combo is far more expensive ($65) than the 1600 page cart ($47.49 at Newegg) or 1000 page cart ($29.99 at Newegg). It is labeled as being "MICR" (Toner used to print checks), and repeat that several times like it was really important. In the description it says "Make sure You are buying " MICR (Megnetic) Check Toner." Strange. The same vendor also sells refurbished PB-210S ("economy" size, 1000 pages) for $94 with the reset chip installed/programmed, refurbished PB-211 (1600 pages) carts with the reset ch ip for $125, and a new printer+a starter toner cart with MICR toner for $108 (I guess they replaced the standard toner in a cart with MICR toner). Odd how the printer/starter combo costs less than the 1600 page cart...
>>> I've asked the seller several questions so I'll report back if I hear anything. There is zero info in the auction about how many pages 70g will print, what the page limit for the chip is, how to install the chip (Not even a picture of it), and whether the chip will expire after a year like the OEM cartridges.
>>> ...
>>> I just got a message from the seller, telling me this for the toner+chip combo:
>>>
>>> "are you going to print MICR ?
>>>
>>> this chip is for 1,000 pages for MICR"
>>>
>>> Nothing else, I will update the thread when I hear more.
>>>
>>> -Larry
>>>
>>
>
>
>

 

Pardon Me:

But isn't "xerography" or laser printing essentially an electrostatic process.
It's been a long time since I read about it, so correct me if I am in error.

So,  a ferrous (iron) content would be in the toner?.

Regards,

Roland F. Harriston P.D.
********************

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

 

Using electrostatics, you actually don't want conductivity through the material or it will all just equalize.

Think of the last time you've opened a box full of styrofoam packing peanuts.

Steve Greenfield AE7HD

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

Someone mentioned that he thought that the iron was a ferrite. Ferrites are ceramics, and as I understand it are insulators. My earlier comments about iron possibly upsetting the etching process was referring to metallic iron, which would not get along well with the etchant. I believe the ferrite would not present such an issue, but I am not sure.

 

One could construct toner particles with iron to result in at least two different particle types: one, where the iron was completely coated with some sort of insulator (e.g., plastic) and so unable to form electrical connections, and two, where the iron was not completely covered and able to form electrical connections. There are obviously a bunch of variations on the latter which would result in various partially conductive configurations.

I have no idea if any of these formulations actually exist.

DaveD

On 10/30/2016 9:40 AM, alienrelics@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:

 

Using electrostatics, you actually don't want conductivity through the material or it will all just equalize.

Think of the last time you've opened a box full of styrofoam packing peanuts.

Steve Greenfield AE7HD

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

From what I understand of the process, magnetic particles are standard. It's just the ratios are changed for different processes. Take apart a toner cartridge and there's usually a long magnet either in the drum or "doctor" assembly. Depending on the printer it either helps establish the coating, or helps weed any toner sticking to the drum in non-image areas. This is one of the reasons for brand specific toner. Some printers are entirely electrostatic, and can't take magnetic particles, some must have their magic ratio. I used to work on lightning printers that were used before memory got cheap. They used paper rolls instead of sheets and ran so fast, that if there was a jam the paper instantly ignited.

>If I remember correctly there is also a magnetic toner to be able to print a magnetic barcode/ banking numbers on financial documents.
>
>Bertho
>
>

 

It’s simpler than that.

 

No idea of the exact scheme, but it’ll be something like when you put in a new cartridge the printer writes the current date & time (obtained from your PC) to the chips.  When a year has passed it writes ‘Dead’ to the chip.

 

You used to be able to reset chips, now you need to get new ones along with your toner refill after the manufacturers closed that ‘loophole’.

 

Could be worse, HP at one point were writing the manufacture date to the chips so if you inserted a brand new cartridge you’d had sitting in on your shelf for a while, it would report is as ‘too old’ and kill it.  Nasty.

 

Tony

 

 

 

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, 4 November 2016 8:29 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Pantum 2500 hack to direct print toner

 

If there is a self destruct after one year then there must be a real time clock of some sort, if it's a clock chip then it should be possible to intercept the clock reference by either changing the clock oscillator Cristal for one that has a frequency of 1/2 or 1/4 of the original. If the clock reference is taken from another reference the inserting a device by 2 or 4  IC would do the same. Another option could be to remove the clock backup power source is battery then the clock would always start with its default date/time it just depends on wether the full data time are used or just the day.

 

My preference would be to use a slower clock reference signal. When I get my printer (just ordered printer) I will look and see if I can find the if there's clock, it could be in the printer or in the cartridge.

 

Anyone got a view to this approach to extending the usable life of a cartridge.

 

No need for anything fancy, like a real time clock. The onboard processor in the printer only has to count seconds and store that info. When the appropriate number of seconds has elapsed, the processor tells the cartridge to shut off. No extra cost, the processor can easily handle this task while controlling the printer.

Harvey

 

Oh, some printers have a built-in clock complete with backup battery.  Unlikely to be the case with this printer, that sort of thing add a few cents to production costs.

 

That clock may never be updated after being set at the factory so changing the computer date won’t help.

 

Tony

 

 

 

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, 4 November 2016 1:15 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Pantum 2500 hack to direct print toner

 

So..... WHERE does the printer get the CURRENT DATE from?
and
WHAT IF YOUR PC DATE WAS SET TO THE SAME DATE EVERY TIME YOU TURN IT ON?
WHEN WOULD THE PRINTER DECIDE THE DATE HAS CHANGED?

So the real question here is IF you attach this printer to a PC thats sole purpose is to
print PCBs forever on this hacked printer then why would you care if you kept the the date
the same and then every time you were ready to print an image you could also reset that image creation date so nothing about that image attributes would carry into the print driver interogating dates.
 

On 11/03/2016 08:05 PM, 'Tony Smith' ajsmith1968@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:

 

It’s simpler than that.

 

No idea of the exact scheme, but it’ll be something like when you put in a new cartridge the printer writes the current date & time (obtained from your PC) to the chips.  When a year has passed it writes ‘Dead’ to the chip.

 

You used to be able to reset chips, now you need to get new ones along with your toner refill after the manufacturers closed that ‘loophole’.

 

Could be worse, HP at one point were writing the manufacture date to the chips so if you inserted a brand new cartridge you’d had sitting in on your shelf for a while, it would report is as ‘too old’ and kill it.  Nasty.

 

Tony

 

 

 

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, 4 November 2016 8:29 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Pantum 2500 hack to direct print toner

 

If there is a self destruct after one year then there must be a real time clock of some sort, if it's a clock chip then it should be possible to intercept the clock reference by either changing the clock oscillator Cristal for one that has a frequency of 1/2 or 1/4 of the original. If the clock reference is taken from another reference the inserting a device by 2 or 4  IC would do the same. Another option could be to remove the clock backup power source is battery then the clock would always start with its default date/time it just depends on wether the full data time are used or just the day.

 

My preference would be to use a slower clock reference signal. When I get my printer (just ordered printer) I will look and see if I can find the if there's clock, it could be in the printer or in the cartridge.

 

Anyone got a view to this approach to extending the usable life of a cartridge.

 

They are doing worse. HP was downloading an update to their firmware that would prevent the printer from using third party ink carts. After some bad publicity, they have promised to roll back this change. How low can you go?

Harvey

 

You can do it in the processor easily enough, but things tend to stop when the power is turned off.  RTC chips are cheap (but still not free).

 

A quick google turns up new chips for this printer, so I dare say it uses the computer clock and flips the kill switch after a while.

 

I wonder what would happen if you rolled your computer date forward a few years before installing the cartridge.

 

Are there any low cost printers than don’t do this crap these days?

 

Tony

 

 

 

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, 4 November 2016 2:58 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Pantum 2500 hack to direct print toner

 

 

No need for anything fancy, like a real time clock. The onboard processor in the printer only has to count seconds and store that info. When the appropriate number of seconds has elapsed, the processor tells the cartridge to shut off. No extra cost, the processor can easily handle this task while controlling the printer.

Harvey

On 11/3/2016 8:29 PM, 'Tony Smith' ajsmith1968@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:

 

Oh, some printers have a built-in clock complete with backup battery.  Unlikely to be the case with this printer, that sort of thing add a few cents to production costs.

 

That clock may never be updated after being set at the factory so changing the computer date won’t help.

 

Tony

 

 

 

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, 4 November 2016 1:15 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Pantum 2500 hack to direct print toner

 

So..... WHERE does the printer get the CURRENT DATE from?
and
WHAT IF YOUR PC DATE WAS SET TO THE SAME DATE EVERY TIME YOU TURN IT ON?
WHEN WOULD THE PRINTER DECIDE THE DATE HAS CHANGED?

So the real question here is IF you attach this printer to a PC thats sole purpose is to
print PCBs forever on this hacked printer then why would you care if you kept the the date
the same and then every time you were ready to print an image you could also reset that image creation date so nothing about that image attributes would carry into the print driver interogating dates.
 

On 11/03/2016 08:05 PM, 'Tony Smith' ajsmith1968@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:

 

It’s simpler than that.

 

No idea of the exact scheme, but it’ll be something like when you put in a new cartridge the printer writes the current date & time (obtained from your PC) to the chips.  When a year has passed it writes ‘Dead’ to the chip.

 

You used to be able to reset chips, now you need to get new ones along with your toner refill after the manufacturers closed that ‘loophole’.

 

Could be worse, HP at one point were writing the manufacture date to the chips so if you inserted a brand new cartridge you’d had sitting in on your shelf for a while, it would report is as ‘too old’ and kill it.  Nasty.

 

Tony

 

 

 

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, 4 November 2016 8:29 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Pantum 2500 hack to direct print toner

 

If there is a self destruct after one year then there must be a real time clock of some sort, if it's a clock chip then it should be possible to intercept the clock reference by either changing the clock oscillator Cristal for one that has a frequency of 1/2 or 1/4 of the original. If the clock reference is taken from another reference the inserting a device by 2 or 4  IC would do the same. Another option could be to remove the clock backup power source is battery then the clock would always start with its default date/time it just depends on wether the full data time are used or just the day.

 

My preference would be to use a slower clock reference signal. When I get my printer (just ordered printer) I will look and see if I can find the if there's clock, it could be in the printer or in the cartridge.

 

Anyone got a view to this approach to extending the usable life of a cartridge.

 

 

Oh, some printers have a built-in clock complete with backup battery.  Unlikely to be the case with this printer, that sort of thing add a few cents to production costs.

 

That clock may never be updated after being set at the factory so changing the computer date won’t help.

 

Tony

 

 

 

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, 4 November 2016 1:15 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Pantum 2500 hack to direct print toner

 

So..... WHERE does the printer get the CURRENT DATE from?
and
WHAT IF YOUR PC DATE WAS SET TO THE SAME DATE EVERY TIME YOU TURN IT ON?
WHEN WOULD THE PRINTER DECIDE THE DATE HAS CHANGED?

So the real question here is IF you attach this printer to a PC thats sole purpose is to
print PCBs forever on this hacked printer then why would you care if you kept the the date
the same and then every time you were ready to print an image you could also reset that image creation date so nothing about that image attributes would carry into the print driver interogating dates.
 

On 11/03/2016 08:05 PM, 'Tony Smith' ajsmith1968@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:

 

It’s simpler than that.

 

No idea of the exact scheme, but it’ll be something like when you put in a new cartridge the printer writes the current date & time (obtained from your PC) to the chips.  When a year has passed it writes ‘Dead’ to the chip.

 

You used to be able to reset chips, now you need to get new ones along with your toner refill after the manufacturers closed that ‘loophole’.

 

Could be worse, HP at one point were writing the manufacture date to the chips so if you inserted a brand new cartridge you’d had sitting in on your shelf for a while, it would report is as ‘too old’ and kill it.  Nasty.

 

Tony

 

 

 

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, 4 November 2016 8:29 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Pantum 2500 hack to direct print toner

 

If there is a self destruct after one year then there must be a real time clock of some sort, if it's a clock chip then it should be possible to intercept the clock reference by either changing the clock oscillator Cristal for one that has a frequency of 1/2 or 1/4 of the original. If the clock reference is taken from another reference the inserting a device by 2 or 4  IC would do the same. Another option could be to remove the clock backup power source is battery then the clock would always start with its default date/time it just depends on wether the full data time are used or just the day.

 

My preference would be to use a slower clock reference signal. When I get my printer (just ordered printer) I will look and see if I can find the if there's clock, it could be in the printer or in the cartridge.

 

Anyone got a view to this approach to extending the usable life of a cartridge.

 

 

No need for anything fancy, like a real time clock. The onboard processor in the printer only has to count seconds and store that info. When the appropriate number of seconds has elapsed, the processor tells the cartridge to shut off. No extra cost, the processor can easily handle this task while controlling the printer.

Harvey

On 11/3/2016 8:29 PM, 'Tony Smith' ajsmith1968@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:

 

Oh, some printers have a built-in clock complete with backup battery.  Unlikely to be the case with this printer, that sort of thing add a few cents to production costs.

 

That clock may never be updated after being set at the factory so changing the computer date won’t help.

 

Tony

 

 

 

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, 4 November 2016 1:15 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Pantum 2500 hack to direct print toner

 

So..... WHERE does the printer get the CURRENT DATE from?
and
WHAT IF YOUR PC DATE WAS SET TO THE SAME DATE EVERY TIME YOU TURN IT ON?
WHEN WOULD THE PRINTER DECIDE THE DATE HAS CHANGED?

So the real question here is IF you attach this printer to a PC thats sole purpose is to
print PCBs forever on this hacked printer then why would you care if you kept the the date
the same and then every time you were ready to print an image you could also reset that image creation date so nothing about that image attributes would carry into the print driver interogating dates.
 

On 11/03/2016 08:05 PM, 'Tony Smith' ajsmith1968@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:

 

It’s simpler than that.

 

No idea of the exact scheme, but it’ll be something like when you put in a new cartridge the printer writes the current date & time (obtained from your PC) to the chips.  When a year has passed it writes ‘Dead’ to the chip.

 

You used to be able to reset chips, now you need to get new ones along with your toner refill after the manufacturers closed that ‘loophole’.

 

Could be worse, HP at one point were writing the manufacture date to the chips so if you inserted a brand new cartridge you’d had sitting in on your shelf for a while, it would report is as ‘too old’ and kill it.  Nasty.

 

Tony

 

 

 

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, 4 November 2016 8:29 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Pantum 2500 hack to direct print toner

 

If there is a self destruct after one year then there must be a real time clock of some sort, if it's a clock chip then it should be possible to intercept the clock reference by either changing the clock oscillator Cristal for one that has a frequency of 1/2 or 1/4 of the original. If the clock reference is taken from another reference the inserting a device by 2 or 4  IC would do the same. Another option could be to remove the clock backup power source is battery then the clock would always start with its default date/time it just depends on wether the full data time are used or just the day.

 

My preference would be to use a slower clock reference signal. When I get my printer (just ordered printer) I will look and see if I can find the if there's clock, it could be in the printer or in the cartridge.

 

Anyone got a view to this approach to extending the usable life of a cartridge.

 

 

Like I said, the printer gets the current date from your PC.

 

If you roll the date back before using the printer then it may not disable the cartridge.  That one time that you forget…

 

These printers might use a different scheme.  Recording page counts is common so the cartridge will be disabled eventually.

 

Tony

 

 

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, 4 November 2016 1:15 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Pantum 2500 hack to direct print toner

 

So..... WHERE does the printer get the CURRENT DATE from?
and
WHAT IF YOUR PC DATE WAS SET TO THE SAME DATE EVERY TIME YOU TURN IT ON?
WHEN WOULD THE PRINTER DECIDE THE DATE HAS CHANGED?

So the real question here is IF you attach this printer to a PC thats sole purpose is to
print PCBs forever on this hacked printer then why would you care if you kept the the date
the same and then every time you were ready to print an image you could also reset that image creation date so nothing about that image attributes would carry into the print driver interogating dates.
 

On 11/03/2016 08:05 PM, 'Tony Smith' ajsmith1968@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:

 

It’s simpler than that.

 

No idea of the exact scheme, but it’ll be something like when you put in a new cartridge the printer writes the current date & time (obtained from your PC) to the chips.  When a year has passed it writes ‘Dead’ to the chip.

 

You used to be able to reset chips, now you need to get new ones along with your toner refill after the manufacturers closed that ‘loophole’.

 

Could be worse, HP at one point were writing the manufacture date to the chips so if you inserted a brand new cartridge you’d had sitting in on your shelf for a while, it would report is as ‘too old’ and kill it.  Nasty.

 

Tony

 

 

 

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, 4 November 2016 8:29 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Pantum 2500 hack to direct print toner

 

If there is a self destruct after one year then there must be a real time clock of some sort, if it's a clock chip then it should be possible to intercept the clock reference by either changing the clock oscillator Cristal for one that has a frequency of 1/2 or 1/4 of the original. If the clock reference is taken from another reference the inserting a device by 2 or 4  IC would do the same. Another option could be to remove the clock backup power source is battery then the clock would always start with its default date/time it just depends on wether the full data time are used or just the day.

 

My preference would be to use a slower clock reference signal. When I get my printer (just ordered printer) I will look and see if I can find the if there's clock, it could be in the printer or in the cartridge.

 

Anyone got a view to this approach to extending the usable life of a cartridge.

 

The computer can be the source of the date. Unless you change the default on Windows type computers, the computer time comes from the Internet, so if it is turned off, the next time it turns on, it will be updated. There is also a real time clock in the computer, that is used when the machine is not connected to the Internet. It operated from the same battery as the CMOS chip.

As I said in an earlier post, the processor in the printer can be counting seconds to get elapsed time, no dates required. Someone mentioned that turning off the printer would stop that count. Not so. Some parts of the printer operate when the power is off. Since the power button on many printers is a soft button, the processor has to be operating all the times, if just to be waiting for the closure of the power switch.  Many processors have a low power mode that is used for basic system timekeeping and other occasional activities, like the power on button. It is well within the power of the processor to be counting seconds in power down mode.  I never turn my printers off, just let them hibernate until they get a signal from the computer. under those conditions, the processor is always working, waiting for the USB signal or the wireless signal to start printing. If the processor is counting seconds, the way to stop the count would be to unplug the printer. This assumes that there is no battery backup. I assume that there is no backup because this is such an inexpensive device.

 

So HOW does it know 365 days?
Where does it get the actual date to decide one year?
Does it last for 10 years if you only turn on the power once every ten days?

On 11/03/2016 11:57 PM, Harvey Altstadter hrconsult@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:

 

No need for anything fancy, like a real time clock. The onboard processor in the printer only has to count seconds and store that info. When the appropriate number of seconds has elapsed, the processor tells the cartridge to shut off. No extra cost, the processor can easily handle this task while controlling the printer.

Harvey

On 11/3/2016 8:29 PM, 'Tony Smith' ajsmith1968@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:

 

Oh, some printers have a built-in clock complete with backup battery.  Unlikely to be the case with this printer, that sort of thing add a few cents to production costs.

 

That clock may never be updated after being set at the factory so changing the computer date won’t help.

 

Tony

 

 

 

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, 4 November 2016 1:15 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Pantum 2500 hack to direct print toner

 

So..... WHERE does the printer get the CURRENT DATE from?
and
WHAT IF YOUR PC DATE WAS SET TO THE SAME DATE EVERY TIME YOU TURN IT ON?
WHEN WOULD THE PRINTER DECIDE THE DATE HAS CHANGED?

So the real question here is IF you attach this printer to a PC thats sole purpose is to
print PCBs forever on this hacked printer then why would you care if you kept the the date
the same and then every time you were ready to print an image you could also reset that image creation date so nothing about that image attributes would carry into the print driver interogating dates.
 

On 11/03/2016 08:05 PM, 'Tony Smith' ajsmith1968@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:

 

It’s simpler than that.

 

No idea of the exact scheme, but it’ll be something like when you put in a new cartridge the printer writes the current date & time (obtained from your PC) to the chips.  When a year has passed it writes ‘Dead’ to the chip.

 

You used to be able to reset chips, now you need to get new ones along with your toner refill after the manufacturers closed that ‘loophole’.

 

Could be worse, HP at one point were writing the manufacture date to the chips so if you inserted a brand new cartridge you’d had sitting in on your shelf for a while, it would report is as ‘too old’ and kill it.  Nasty.

 

Tony

 

 

 

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, 4 November 2016 8:29 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Pantum 2500 hack to direct print toner

 

If there is a self destruct after one year then there must be a real time clock of some sort, if it's a clock chip then it should be possible to intercept the clock reference by either changing the clock oscillator Cristal for one that has a frequency of 1/2 or 1/4 of the original. If the clock reference is taken from another reference the inserting a device by 2 or 4  IC would do the same. Another option could be to remove the clock backup power source is battery then the clock would always start with its default date/time it just depends on wether the full data time are used or just the day.

 

My preference would be to use a slower clock reference signal. When I get my printer (just ordered printer) I will look and see if I can find the if there's clock, it could be in the printer or in the cartridge.

 

Anyone got a view to this approach to extending the usable life of a cartridge.