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How to cut circuit boards?

How to cut circuit boards?

2003-12-20 by javaguy11111

Any suggestions on cutting circuit boards. I have used a bandsaw, but
it tends to be slow, dusty and inaccurate. I have tried paper shears,
but the board tends to get warped and is only good for about two
inches and it is too hard to cut any further.

I have seen a few references to using a diamond tile saw. They have
wet tile saws with a diamond blade at home depot for $88 but it seems
that the blade would get gummed up with epoxy and not cut.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] How to cut circuit boards?

2003-12-20 by Markus Zingg

>Any suggestions on cutting circuit boards. I have used a bandsaw, but
>it tends to be slow, dusty and inaccurate. I have tried paper shears,
>but the board tends to get warped and is only good for about two
>inches and it is too hard to cut any further.
>
>I have seen a few references to using a diamond tile saw. They have
>wet tile saws with a diamond blade at home depot for $88 but it seems
>that the blade would get gummed up with epoxy and not cut.

I use the bench circular saw KS 115 from Proxxon with the diamond
blade NO 28 012 with good sucess. This little saw is having an adaptor
to connect a vacum cleaner to it and by doing so dust and dirt remains
within limits. The saw is definately not made to cut 50 boards a day
but should do fine for hobby use. The saw is not that expensive. A
little web search showed that it's aparently ~$130. The diamod blade
is a bit pricey ($35) but definately worth it.

www.proxxon.com

HTH

Markus

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] How to cut circuit boards?

2003-12-20 by Stefan Trethan

a) The best quality cut i get with a circular/table saw.
There are small units with 50 and 100mm blade diameter.
The blade should be a carbide blade for Fiber reinforced pcbs.

With the full material carbide blade you get very smooth accurate cuts.
They have a glossy surface like the pcb top/bottom. no rework needed
(wouldn't make it better).

Looks really just perfect.



b) The common method seems to be what is called "schlagschere" in german.
I forgot the English word and my dictionary doesn't know either.
To find out what i mean look at the following url:
<http://www.bungard.com/seiten/p-necut.htm#techn>
The cuts are rather rough, i don't like this method.


c) I have read about people using paper cutters but i think the results
will be similar to b).

d) plate shears are useable.
With the ones i have i can cut 1.5mm fr4 easily.
The disadvantage is as you said the board gets warped.
I have to use this method currently because the flimsy motor of my table
saw decided to rather burn then turn. Building a new saw with better motor
is on the "to do" list.
It is fast, and no dust involved. The shears i have seem to cope well with
the glass fibers.

e) i tried diamond blade for padsaw (tile cutting blade).
works but far from perfect.
A padsaw blade works in any case, for some boards.
But i don't think the glass dust is good for the padsaw "piston" bearing.
It is a bit hard to get a really straight cut with a padsaw (for me).

f) other types of saws will work, but a steel blade is dulled fast by glass
fibers.


As a conclusion i suggest the following:
If you want good quality work buy a circular saw with a carbide blade.
I don't know if carbide-populated blades (like for cutting formica coated
wood) work well, never tried.
A full carbide metal blade with rather small teeth works just perfect.
Get yourself such a saw and you will be happy. but it will also set you
back 100€ or so.
For me this is no problem as i use the saw for model building too.




Stefan



On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 21:49:47 -0000, javaguy11111 <javaguy11111@...>
wrote:

> Any suggestions on cutting circuit boards. I have used a bandsaw, but
> it tends to be slow, dusty and inaccurate. I have tried paper shears,
> but the board tends to get warped and is only good for about two
> inches and it is too hard to cut any further.
>
> I have seen a few references to using a diamond tile saw. They have
> wet tile saws with a diamond blade at home depot for $88 but it seems
> that the blade would get gummed up with epoxy and not cut.
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
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>
>
>
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Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] How to cut circuit boards?

2003-12-20 by Stefan Trethan

@markus:

Do you have the 220V version?
the saw i bought (at ebay for 30eur with carbide blade and two other blades
;-) )
is the old 12-18V version.
The damn thing had no power at all.
The cuts were very perfect but i kept turning up the voltage until there
was only smoke left of
the motor....
It has gears between the motor and the blade shaft.
Does your version already have the toothed belt?

I plan building my own saw now, with a more powerful motor of course.

Stefan



> I use the bench circular saw KS 115 from Proxxon with the diamond
> blade NO 28 012 with good sucess. This little saw is having an adaptor
> to connect a vacum cleaner to it and by doing so dust and dirt remains
> within limits. The saw is definately not made to cut 50 boards a day
> but should do fine for hobby use. The saw is not that expensive. A
> little web search showed that it's aparently ~$130. The diamod blade
> is a bit pricey ($35) but definately worth it.
>
> www.proxxon.com
>
> HTH
>
> Markus
>

Re: How to cut circuit boards?

2003-12-20 by Ben H. Lanmon

> Any suggestions on cutting circuit boards. I have used a bandsaw,
but
> it tends to be slow, dusty and inaccurate. I have tried paper
shears,
> but the board tends to get warped and is only good for about two
> inches and it is too hard to cut any further.
>
> I have seen a few references to using a diamond tile saw. They
have
> wet tile saws with a diamond blade at home depot for $88 but it
seems
> that the blade would get gummed up with epoxy and not cut.

I use a Craftsman Table saw with Diamond blade, and vacumn attached,
also put a cloth shop vac filter over the air intake of the motor to
keep it from getting the dust into the motor. Best method that I
have found.

Bench type Sheet metal shears will work also, paper cutters do not
work very well for this.

Ben

Ben

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] How to cut circuit boards?

2003-12-20 by Markus Zingg

Hi Stefan

>@markus:
>
>Do you have the 220V version?

yes

>the saw i bought (at ebay for 30eur with carbide blade and two other blades
>;-) )
>is the old 12-18V version.
>The damn thing had no power at all.

Well, mine is also not the strongest, but for the kind of boards I
make it's sufficient. I bought fairly huge copper clad material from
Bungard which I cut with this saw. Works fine if you take some time
and don't get impatient. Since I use ~60 boards a year that's no
problem for me. I figure those doing fewer boards will find the saw
quite handy.

>The cuts were very perfect but i kept turning up the voltage until there
>was only smoke left of
>the motor....
>It has gears between the motor and the blade shaft.
>Does your version already have the toothed belt?

Hmm, I haven't disasembled it yet so I don't know.

>I plan building my own saw now, with a more powerful motor of course.

So far no need for this on my end yet. That said I'm still busy enough
with my other projects :-))

Markus

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] How to cut circuit boards?

2003-12-20 by Stefan Trethan

If it is the version with gears you should hear that quite distinctly.
the gears are (were) louder than the motor on my saw.
But i think since they use 220V motors they also use the belt version.

But to the topic again:

You said you use the diamond blade.
How rough/smooth is your cut?
When i used the diamond padsaw blade the cut was quite rough.
With the carbide blade the cut is almost like polished surface, nice sqare
and all.

I assume you too never tried one of the carbide equipped carpenters blade
in a big table saw?

Regards
Stefan

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 00:04:43 +0100, Markus Zingg <m.zingg@...> wrote:

> Hi Stefan
>
>> @markus:
>>
>> Do you have the 220V version?
>
> yes
>
>> the saw i bought (at ebay for 30eur with carbide blade and two other
>> blades ;-) )
>> is the old 12-18V version.
>> The damn thing had no power at all.
>
> Well, mine is also not the strongest, but for the kind of boards I
> make it's sufficient. I bought fairly huge copper clad material from
> Bungard which I cut with this saw. Works fine if you take some time
> and don't get impatient. Since I use ~60 boards a year that's no
> problem for me. I figure those doing fewer boards will find the saw
> quite handy.
>
>> The cuts were very perfect but i kept turning up the voltage until there
>> was only smoke left of
>> the motor....
>> It has gears between the motor and the blade shaft.
>> Does your version already have the toothed belt?
>
> Hmm, I haven't disasembled it yet so I don't know.
>
>> I plan building my own saw now, with a more powerful motor of course.
>
> So far no need for this on my end yet. That said I'm still busy enough
> with my other projects :-))
>
> Markus
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] How to cut circuit boards?

2003-12-20 by Alan King

javaguy11111 wrote:
> Any suggestions on cutting circuit boards. I have used a bandsaw, but
> it tends to be slow, dusty and inaccurate. I have tried paper shears,
> but the board tends to get warped and is only good for about two
> inches and it is too hard to cut any further.
>

Dremel, really requires the flex shaft to do it so the handle can be
within the diameter of the cutoff disc. Use the THINNEST discs, they
will break a bit more often but are cheap and cut faster due to less
material removal with the same power from the tool. Actually use the
cheap $20 hand tool from Walmart, it's amazingly high quality for the
price and will also take the dremel flex shaft.

Get two of the high quality drawer slides from Lowes ($15 or less).
Remove the outer 3rd section and just use the inner more bearinged two
sections for less play, requires drilling holes in the middle piece for
mounting though. Mount a piece of wood between the rails, and tool to
the wood with hose clamps. Align accurately so that the rest of the
disc travels exactly through the slot the edge cuts and the discs will
last longer than you'd think. Set it up so you can mount the boards
securely, and have the tool travel on the rails and slice the board.
Then, build a simple stepper motor controller and attach a 1/4"-20
threaded rod to the shaft, a coupling nut to the board, and set it up to
travel automatically at a reasonably slow rate. Adjust speed to have a
reasonable rate without too much loading on the tool.

Coat hanger wire. Build a box frame around the whole cutting area,
but not the dremel motor. Point the wire ends in so they don't cut the
bag. Wrap a garbage bag around the frame with the sliding tool plate
moving along a slit in the bag. Knock your boards off before removing,
and throw the bag away now and then to get rid of the dust. A design
that keeps the rails and the flex shaft handle (bearings) outside the
bag will be best. Helps if you hunt down some good clear bags, although
you can flip the front up when loading a board easily enough. Small
slits in the bag don't let out too much dust, one on the other side will
let you get a hand and screwdriver in for changing the wheel etc.

Note that this can be scaled up to more drill sized cutoff wheels and
motor systems. But you still want to seperate the boards not grind a
bunch of fiberglass dust, so the thinnest wheel you can use will be the
best. Anything more is just wasting grinding wheel money and making
more dust.

Actually just thinking more about it, some spring snap clips like the
ones to hold tool handles on the wall but small enough to hold the flex
shaft may be good enough to let you pop the handle in and out so it's
not tied to the machine. If not that some other quick removal system
would be a good idea, no sense having a dremel and flex sitting around
for a single purpose if not necessary.

Maybe $80 or so if you have to buy the tool and flex which will come
in handy anyway. Only does straight cuts but could be modified for
more, and worth it if you do more than a few boards.

Alan

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] How to cut circuit boards?

2003-12-20 by Stefan Trethan

Alan, no offence, but has it ever appeared to you you might be a little
crazy? ;-)

Don't you think the automated feed is a bit of overkill....?

Do you really cut boards yourself this way?
Don't misunderstand me - your plan is interesting and all, but somehow it
sounds like some "nutty professor machine".

There are CompactDisc size 1mm blades for the angle grinder.
Maybe they are a option too - but i still like carbide blades more.

Also think about gravity feed. A piece of string, a pulley and a weight
may be much easier to set up than a stepper. With that you have constant
force
no matter which material thickness you have. (I used this with hot-wire
foam cutting - couldn't get it working properly without).
see i can think of quite crazy contraptions too...

Stefan

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 18:35:11 -0500, Alan King <alan@...> wrote:

> javaguy11111 wrote:
>> Any suggestions on cutting circuit boards. I have used a bandsaw, but
>> it tends to be slow, dusty and inaccurate. I have tried paper shears,
>> but the board tends to get warped and is only good for about two
>> inches and it is too hard to cut any further.
>>
>
> Dremel, really requires the flex shaft to do it so the handle can be
> within the diameter of the cutoff disc. Use the THINNEST discs, they
> will break a bit more often but are cheap and cut faster due to less
> material removal with the same power from the tool. Actually use the
> cheap $20 hand tool from Walmart, it's amazingly high quality for the
> price and will also take the dremel flex shaft.
>
> Get two of the high quality drawer slides from Lowes ($15 or less).
> Remove the outer 3rd section and just use the inner more bearinged two
> sections for less play, requires drilling holes in the middle piece for
> mounting though. Mount a piece of wood between the rails, and tool to
> the wood with hose clamps. Align accurately so that the rest of the disc
> travels exactly through the slot the edge cuts and the discs will last
> longer than you'd think. Set it up so you can mount the boards securely,
> and have the tool travel on the rails and slice the board. Then, build a
> simple stepper motor controller and attach a 1/4"-20 threaded rod to the
> shaft, a coupling nut to the board, and set it up to travel automatically
> at a reasonably slow rate. Adjust speed to have a reasonable rate
> without too much loading on the tool.
>
> Coat hanger wire. Build a box frame around the whole cutting area, but
> not the dremel motor. Point the wire ends in so they don't cut the bag.
> Wrap a garbage bag around the frame with the sliding tool plate moving
> along a slit in the bag. Knock your boards off before removing, and
> throw the bag away now and then to get rid of the dust. A design that
> keeps the rails and the flex shaft handle (bearings) outside the bag will
> be best. Helps if you hunt down some good clear bags, although you can
> flip the front up when loading a board easily enough. Small slits in the
> bag don't let out too much dust, one on the other side will let you get a
> hand and screwdriver in for changing the wheel etc.
>
> Note that this can be scaled up to more drill sized cutoff wheels and
> motor systems. But you still want to seperate the boards not grind a
> bunch of fiberglass dust, so the thinnest wheel you can use will be the
> best. Anything more is just wasting grinding wheel money and making more
> dust.
>
> Actually just thinking more about it, some spring snap clips like the
> ones to hold tool handles on the wall but small enough to hold the flex
> shaft may be good enough to let you pop the handle in and out so it's not
> tied to the machine. If not that some other quick removal system would
> be a good idea, no sense having a dremel and flex sitting around for a
> single purpose if not necessary.
>
> Maybe $80 or so if you have to buy the tool and flex which will come in
> handy anyway. Only does straight cuts but could be modified for more,
> and worth it if you do more than a few boards.
>
> Alan
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] How to cut circuit boards?

2003-12-21 by Alan King

Stefan Trethan wrote:
> Alan, no offence, but has it ever appeared to you you might be a little
> crazy? ;-)

Almost everyone even remotely normal sees people in my range of
brilliance as at least slightly crazy! ;)

>
> Don't you think the automated feed is a bit of overkill....?

Not at all. It SEEMS that way until you've made one, because the
startup of making a controller etc is noticable. But, once you have one
done you can clone it all you like. And cost for the
motor/shaft/controller is only around $20ish with cheap/surplus items.
While the gravity setup isn't a bad idea and has the advantage of
simplicity, steppers are one of the most reliable machines there are.
With an actively driven setup things are less likely to have unexpected
results, you'll be amazed how often the weight system will do something
you didn't exactly want it to. And since this type of cutting is a
relatively slow process anyway, you can slow it down further while
accurately controlled and simply punch a button and go do other things.
Main thing is with my own controller systems and at least 500 steppers
on hand, it takes little to do for me. Really though cut a stepper and
drive out of an old floppy drive and it's not much for anyone else either.

>
> Do you really cut boards yourself this way?
> Don't misunderstand me - your plan is interesting and all, but somehow it
> sounds like some "nutty professor machine".

Actually I mount the flex shaft horizontally on my homemade CNC and
let it do it. I was just reducing it down to what's needed to just cut
boards. Since there are many other things you cut in straight lines,
I've considered making a seperate one myself even though I don't do
enough just PCB's to justify it. Note that it lets you have good hands
free (and noise removed since you can leave) operation for no more than
the cost of the better tools others were suggesting. If you're not
there you don't care so much if it's a bit longer to cut. And if you
have a dremel/flex already it costs very little to do.

Alan

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] How to cut circuit boards?

2003-12-21 by JanRwl@AOL.COM

In a message dated 12/20/2003 3:51:46 PM Central Standard Time,
javaguy11111@... writes:
Any suggestions on cutting circuit boards.
Glass-epoxy "dulls" a bandsaw blade rather instantly, but a good
"metal-cutting" BS blade will continue to cut glass-epoxy for a long time---just not wood,
after about 1.5" of the PC stock!

BUT, a BS-cut on glass-epoxy is kinda like using a chain-saw to make fine
parlor-furniture. I cut with a BS, and then DISK-SAND the edges "perfect" and
square. If I have a "shape" to cut, I use a solid-carbide router- or two-flute
mill-bit in a "Bridgeport" type mill. But a small "router table" would do
fine, if you know how to properly USE such! VERY dangerous for the klutz,
however! So be very, very careful, and first KNOW what you are doing!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] How to cut circuit boards?

2003-12-21 by Jan Kok

I just use a hacksaw (arm-powered!) with a fine-tooth metal-cutting
blade. I can make a pretty straight cut (less that 1/32 inch or 1 mm
deviation), cut several inches per minute, and then smooth the edge with
a file or sandpaper block.

Since cutting the material takes less time than just about any other
step in the PCB making process, I haven't worried about it!

Cheers,
- Jan

Re: How to cut circuit boards?

2003-12-21 by grantfair2001

I use tinsnips. They work extremely well and leave a cleanly cut edge.
You use then like scissors. Tin snip jaws have flat faces which move
face-to-face. You can snip, open, push snips ahead and keep part of
the cut PCB edge aligned with one snip face, and get a straight cut.

If you take a look at tin snips, they are really a shear with handles.

I also use a shear which is part of a small sheet metal brake. But the
snips work very well, and can be had for a modest sum. I saw a pair of
decent looking Chinese made snips recently for $10 Can. I use a pair
of US made snips about 30 years old, and have been cutting PCB with
them for 20 years plus. I sharpen them occasionally by cutting up some
sandpaper.

If you have snips, its easy to try this.

Grant

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "javaguy11111"
<javaguy11111@y...> wrote:
> Any suggestions on cutting circuit boards.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: How to cut circuit boards?

2003-12-21 by Russell Shaw

grantfair2001 wrote:
> I use tinsnips. They work extremely well and leave a cleanly cut edge.
> You use then like scissors. Tin snip jaws have flat faces which move
> face-to-face. You can snip, open, push snips ahead and keep part of
> the cut PCB edge aligned with one snip face, and get a straight cut.
>
> If you take a look at tin snips, they are really a shear with handles.
>
> I also use a shear which is part of a small sheet metal brake. But the
> snips work very well, and can be had for a modest sum. I saw a pair of
> decent looking Chinese made snips recently for $10 Can. I use a pair
> of US made snips about 30 years old, and have been cutting PCB with
> them for 20 years plus. I sharpen them occasionally by cutting up some
> sandpaper.
>
> If you have snips, its easy to try this.

Problem with snips is that they can warp the pcb (expecially thinner stuff),
making film-in-light-box methods difficult.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] How to cut circuit boards?

2003-12-21 by Markus Zingg

>If it is the version with gears you should hear that quite distinctly.
>the gears are (were) louder than the motor on my saw.
>But i think since they use 220V motors they also use the belt version.

Sounds more like a belt version then.

>But to the topic again:
>
>You said you use the diamond blade.
>How rough/smooth is your cut?
>When i used the diamond padsaw blade the cut was quite rough.
>With the carbide blade the cut is almost like polished surface, nice sqare
>and all.

Well, I do not asume the cut's have to be smoth as a baby face :-) so,
to me they are "ok". I tried with carbide blades, but they tend to get
blocked easy hence I switched to the diamond blade.

>I assume you too never tried one of the carbide equipped carpenters blade
>in a big table saw?

No, but I heard that's a good option also.

Markus

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: How to cut circuit boards?

2003-12-21 by Stefan Trethan

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 08:10:37 -0000, grantfair2001 <grant.fair@...>
wrote:

> I use tinsnips. They work extremely well and leave a cleanly cut edge.
> You use then like scissors. Tin snip jaws have flat faces which move
> face-to-face. You can snip, open, push snips ahead and keep part of
> the cut PCB edge aligned with one snip face, and get a straight cut.
>
> If you take a look at tin snips, they are really a shear with handles.
>
> I also use a shear which is part of a small sheet metal brake. But the
> snips work very well, and can be had for a modest sum. I saw a pair of
> decent looking Chinese made snips recently for $10 Can. I use a pair
> of US made snips about 30 years old, and have been cutting PCB with
> them for 20 years plus. I sharpen them occasionally by cutting up some
> sandpaper.
>
> If you have snips, its easy to try this.
>
> Grant


PLEASE describe how you sharpen them by cutting up sandpaper!
i never heard of that.
Cutting sandpaper with any kind of scissors seems to me more like dulling
them.

ST

To the warping: i cut 1mm pcb with "tinsnips" as you call it and had no
problem with the warping
using toner tansfer. i just tried to bend it straight before cleaning.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] How to cut circuit boards?

2003-12-21 by Alan King

Oh yeah thought of it before but almost forgot to mention power
nibblers. No dust and no problems, really one of the best possible
tools for the job.

http://www.appealingtools.com/northern-industrial-tools-professional-power-nibbler,-model-atni904aba.html


Funny how power nibbler in Google only gets three hits, but in the image
search you get many..

http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares.asp?MerchantID=RET01229&Action=Catalog&Type=Product&ID=81556

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&q=power+nibbler&sa=N&tab=wi


The one at MicroMark isn't the cheapest since it's electric, but it
seems to cut a relatively narrow line.

Alan

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] How to cut circuit boards?

2003-12-21 by Stefan Trethan

If you compare the MicroMark Nibbler to the proxxon unit you will see that
it looks completely the same.
only the colors are different. Could well be out of the same machine.

I wonder if MicroMark has other proxxon tools too, the prize is the same.

Stefan


On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 06:40:33 -0500, Alan King <alan@...> wrote:

> Oh yeah thought of it before but almost forgot to mention power nibblers.
> No dust and no problems, really one of the best possible tools for the
> job.
>
> http://www.appealingtools.com/northern-industrial-tools-professional-
> power-nibbler,-model-atni904aba.html
>
>
> Funny how power nibbler in Google only gets three hits, but in the image
> search you get many..
>
> http://www.ares-
> server.com/Ares/Ares.asp?MerchantID=RET01229&Action=Catalog&Type=Product&ID=81556
>
> http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-
> 8&safe=off&q=power+nibbler&sa=N&tab=wi
>
>
> The one at MicroMark isn't the cheapest since it's electric, but it seems
> to cut a relatively narrow line.
>
> Alan
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Re: How to cut circuit boards?

2003-12-21 by grantfair2001

I just cut fine or very fine sandpaper with the snips, as if they were
scissors. I only make a few cuts each sharpening.

I read long ago that this was a good way to sharpen scissors, and it
works for that too. Why it works, I don't know. But it does the trick.

Grant

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
>
> PLEASE describe how you sharpen them by cutting up sandpaper!
> i never heard of that.
> Cutting sandpaper with any kind of scissors seems to me more like
dulling
> them.
>
> ST

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: How to cut circuit boards?

2003-12-21 by Leon Heller

----- Original Message -----
From: "grantfair2001" <grant.fair@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 7:52 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: How to cut circuit boards?


> I just cut fine or very fine sandpaper with the snips, as if they were
> scissors. I only make a few cuts each sharpening.
>
> I read long ago that this was a good way to sharpen scissors, and it
> works for that too. Why it works, I don't know. But it does the trick.

My mother used to sharpen scissors that way, 50 years ago. I've always been
doubtful about it.

Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
Email: aqzf13@...
My low-cost Philips LPC210x ARM development system:
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller/lpc2104.html

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Sharpening scissors with sandpaper ???

2003-12-21 by Stefan Trethan

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 21:06:50 -0000, Leon Heller <leon_heller@...>
wrote:

>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "grantfair2001"
> <grant.fair@...>
> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 7:52 PM
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: How to cut circuit boards?
>
>
>> I just cut fine or very fine sandpaper with the snips, as if they were
>> scissors. I only make a few cuts each sharpening.
>>
>> I read long ago that this was a good way to sharpen scissors, and it
>> works for that too. Why it works, I don't know. But it does the trick.
>
> My mother used to sharpen scissors that way, 50 years ago. I've always
> been
> doubtful about it.
>
> Leon
> --
> Leon Heller, G1HSM

Be sure that i try it with the next dull scissors i find.
(no point in "sharpening" sharp scissors this way ;-) ).
I can sharpen them the conventional way if the attempt fails...

It's really rather hard to believe that this works..

> SHARPENING DULL SCISSORS - Tear off three pieces of aluminum foil, put
> them on top of each other, then cut the layered foil at least a >dozen
> times with your dull pair of scissors. Cut a regular piece of paper and
> see if the scissors are sharp enough. If not, repeat the >procedure. You
> can also sharpen dull scissors by using the dull scissors to cut a sheet
> of fine sandpaper several times. These >procedures are not recommended
> for a good pair of sewing shears.

<http://recipecircus.com/recipes/carnation037/TipsCleaning/Sharpening_Scissors.html>
<http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv/gl_equipment_hand_tools/article/0,1785,HGTV_3582_1383595,00.html>


ST

A toner transfer is soaking this moment...
I hope it comes out well..

Re: How to cut circuit boards?

2003-12-21 by stan_katz

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "javaguy11111"
<javaguy11111@y...> wrote:
> Any suggestions on cutting circuit boards. I have used a bandsaw,
but
> it tends to be slow, dusty and inaccurate. I have tried paper
shears,
> but the board tends to get warped and is only good for about two
> inches and it is too hard to cut any further.
>
> I have seen a few references to using a diamond tile saw. They have
> wet tile saws with a diamond blade at home depot for $88 but it
seems
> that the blade would get gummed up with epoxy and not cut.

I use a machine shop sheet metal shear that I picked up used for $75
USD.
You can buy a sheet metal shear /combo (Sheet Metal Fabrication Kit)
from harborfreight.com. Their fall catalog had a sale for $89.99
marked down from $189.99.
Machine shop shears are the only way to go if you can afford them.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Sharpening scissors with sandpaper ???

2003-12-21 by Alan King

Stefan Trethan wrote:

> It's really rather hard to believe that this works..
>


Well guys you can see it might work, think about the paper seperating
and sliding out slightly when cut. That'll be moving out slightly along
the face of the edge removing material, should work although only
sharpening one side until flipping unless the very edge surface of the
other side of the paper is enough to do it. Seems like it'd be marginal
vs just using a can opener sharpener unless you just keep fine sandpaper
with the scissors to keep them topped off. With little pressure
elsewhere it doesn't seem like it'd remove much except just at the edge,
you'd still need to sharpen in a different manner once in a while.
Generally mine are pretty far gone before I even think to sharpen
them, I'd be cutting sandpaper for hours I think.

Alan

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Sharpening scissors with sandpaper ???

2003-12-21 by Stefan Trethan

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:37:01 -0500, Alan King <alan@...> wrote:

> Stefan Trethan wrote:
>
>> It's really rather hard to believe that this works..
>>
>
>
> Well guys you can see it might work, think about the paper seperating and
> sliding out slightly when cut. That'll be moving out slightly along the
> face of the edge removing material, should work although only sharpening
> one side until flipping unless the very edge surface of the other side of
> the paper is enough to do it. Seems like it'd be marginal vs just using
> a can opener sharpener unless you just keep fine sandpaper with the
> scissors to keep them topped off. With little pressure elsewhere it
> doesn't seem like it'd remove much except just at the edge, you'd still
> need to sharpen in a different manner once in a while.
> Generally mine are pretty far gone before I even think to sharpen them,
> I'd be cutting sandpaper for hours I think.
>
> Alan
>
>
That's similar to what i think....

BUT if it works that way, why the hell do they ever get dull in first
place?
(ok, ok i know i shouldn't cut copper wire)
Shouldn't cutting any material then sharpen them?

As said, very suspicious, but i will try.

ST

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Sharpening scissors with sandpaper ???

2003-12-22 by dangermouse

Perhaps someone can explain how it is possible for friction with aluminum to
sharpen (presumably) heat-treated steel.

-DM

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefan Trethan" <stefan_trethan@...>
To: <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Sharpening scissors with sandpaper ???


> On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 21:06:50 -0000, Leon Heller <leon_heller@...>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "grantfair2001"
> > <grant.fair@...>
> > To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 7:52 PM
> > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: How to cut circuit boards?
> >
> >
> >> I just cut fine or very fine sandpaper with the snips, as if they were
> >> scissors. I only make a few cuts each sharpening.
> >>
> >> I read long ago that this was a good way to sharpen scissors, and it
> >> works for that too. Why it works, I don't know. But it does the trick.
> >
> > My mother used to sharpen scissors that way, 50 years ago. I've always
> > been
> > doubtful about it.
> >
> > Leon
> > --
> > Leon Heller, G1HSM
>
> Be sure that i try it with the next dull scissors i find.
> (no point in "sharpening" sharp scissors this way ;-) ).
> I can sharpen them the conventional way if the attempt fails...
>
> It's really rather hard to believe that this works..
>
> > SHARPENING DULL SCISSORS - Tear off three pieces of aluminum foil, put
> > them on top of each other, then cut the layered foil at least a >dozen
> > times with your dull pair of scissors. Cut a regular piece of paper and
> > see if the scissors are sharp enough. If not, repeat the >procedure. You
> > can also sharpen dull scissors by using the dull scissors to cut a sheet
> > of fine sandpaper several times. These >procedures are not recommended
> > for a good pair of sewing shears.
>
>
<http://recipecircus.com/recipes/carnation037/TipsCleaning/Sharpening_Scisso
rs.html>
>
<http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv/gl_equipment_hand_tools/article/0,1785,HGTV_3582_1
383595,00.html>
>
>
> ST
>
> A toner transfer is soaking this moment...
> I hope it comes out well..
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Re: How to cut circuit boards?

2003-12-22 by javaguy11111

Thanks to all for the suggestions. I decided to get a cheap tile saw
at Home Depot and I am happy to say that it cuts very well and there
was virtually no dust.

There was a little bit of a copper burr on the edge, but that was
easily filed away.

One minor inconvenience was that the fence has a gap with the table so
the board could not rest directly against the fence, but a bit of
scrap circuit board clamped against the fence and flush to the table
fixed that.



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "javaguy11111"
<javaguy11111@y...> wrote:
> Any suggestions on cutting circuit boards. I have used a bandsaw,
but
> it tends to be slow, dusty and inaccurate. I have tried paper
shears,
> but the board tends to get warped and is only good for about two
> inches and it is too hard to cut any further.
>
> I have seen a few references to using a diamond tile saw. They have
> wet tile saws with a diamond blade at home depot for $88 but it
seems
> that the blade would get gummed up with epoxy and not cut.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: How to cut circuit boards?

2003-12-22 by Rick C.

You might want to check out the way I've been cutting boards here:
http://www.pic101.com/pcb
Rick

javaguy11111 wrote:

> Thanks to all for the suggestions. I decided to get a cheap tile saw
> at Home Depot and I am happy to say that it cuts very well and there
> was virtually no dust.
>
> There was a little bit of a copper burr on the edge, but that was
> easily filed away.
>
> One minor inconvenience was that the fence has a gap with the table so
>
> the board could not rest directly against the fence, but a bit of
> scrap circuit board clamped against the fence and flush to the table
> fixed that.
>
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "javaguy11111"
> <javaguy11111@y...> wrote:
> > Any suggestions on cutting circuit boards. I have used a bandsaw,
> but
> > it tends to be slow, dusty and inaccurate. I have tried paper
> shears,
> > but the board tends to get warped and is only good for about two
> > inches and it is too hard to cut any further.
> >
> > I have seen a few references to using a diamond tile saw. They have
>
> > wet tile saws with a diamond blade at home depot for $88 but it
> seems
> > that the blade would get gummed up with epoxy and not cut.
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Sharpening scissors with sandpaper ???

2003-12-22 by Leon Heller

----- Original Message -----
From: "dangermouse" <dangermouse1956@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 12:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Sharpening scissors with sandpaper ???


> Perhaps someone can explain how it is possible for friction with aluminum
to
> sharpen (presumably) heat-treated steel.

Corundum? It's not aluminium but aluminium oxide - what sapphires are made
of.

Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
Email: aqzf13@...
My low-cost Philips LPC210x ARM development system:
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller/lpc2104.html

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Sharpening scissors with sandpaper ???

2003-12-22 by Alan King

Stefan Trethan wrote:

> That's similar to what i think....
>
> BUT if it works that way, why the hell do they ever get dull in first
> place?
> (ok, ok i know i shouldn't cut copper wire)
> Shouldn't cutting any material then sharpen them?
>

Well think about them from the front. You have the two blades
meeting, the edges coming together from the diagonal corners, and a
piece of paper between them. The paper wears just the edge as it slices
through, soon as it is cut it seperates and has no strength. Sandpaper
as it's cut will also be gouging out along the short face sharpening the
edge. Open the scissors up, and try sandpaper then paper along the edge
face to sharpen by hand, which takes longer? :)
Aluminum is softer than steel, but there is still relative wear from
friction, and aluminum is much tougher than paper. The part just ahead
of the cut keeps the part just behind the cut together, if it wears the
edge face a bit more than it wears the edge corner then it'll sharpen
the scissors. Everything that you cut should either dull or sharpen the
scissors, and it's an indicator of the relative wear of the corners and
faces.

Very similar to use of more complex machine tools. An expert
machinist's tools rarely need sharpening. If you balance all of the
variables well, you can actually sharpen the bits with the material
being cut as they're used so that they stay sharp.

Alan

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Sharpening scissors with sandpaper ???

2003-12-22 by Stefan Trethan

>
> Well think about them from the front. You have the two blades meeting,
> the edges coming together from the diagonal corners, and a piece of paper
> between them. The paper wears just the edge as it slices through, soon
> as it is cut it seperates and has no strength. Sandpaper as it's cut
> will also be gouging out along the short face sharpening the edge. Open
> the scissors up, and try sandpaper then paper along the edge face to
> sharpen by hand, which takes longer? :)

But i cut two million (nearly) pieces of paper in normal operation compared
to 3 cuts in sandpaper.


> Aluminum is softer than steel, but there is still relative wear from
> friction, and aluminum is much tougher than paper. The part just ahead
> of the cut keeps the part just behind the cut together, if it wears the
> edge face a bit more than it wears the edge corner then it'll sharpen the
> scissors. Everything that you cut should either dull or sharpen the
> scissors, and it's an indicator of the relative wear of the corners and
> faces.
>
> Very similar to use of more complex machine tools. An expert machinist's
> tools rarely need sharpening. If you balance all of the variables well,
> you can actually sharpen the bits with the material being cut as they're
> used so that they stay sharp.
>
> Alan
>

Aluminium foil will carry aluminium oxyde, which is very hard.
Expert knife grinders use aluminium oxyde containing paint for the last
grinding.


As said, the next dull scissors will be experimented with.

Stefan

Re: How to cut circuit boards?

2003-12-22 by Ted Inoue

After reading other reports of using a paper cutter to cut PCB's, I
tried it myself and totally ruined my paper cutter. It barely knicked
the board and instead bent up the back bracket of the cutter (where
the pivot point is). Obviously not a robust design. However, others
should beware before trying this method. I was much more successful
with scoring and snapping the board.

ymmv

-Ted

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Rick C." <rixy@V...> wrote:
> You might want to check out the way I've been cutting boards here:
> http://www.pic101.com/pcb
> Rick
>
> javaguy11111 wrote:
>
> > Thanks to all for the suggestions. I decided to get a cheap tile
saw
> > at Home Depot and I am happy to say that it cuts very well and
there
> > was virtually no dust.
> >
> > There was a little bit of a copper burr on the edge, but that was
> > easily filed away.
> >
> > One minor inconvenience was that the fence has a gap with the
table so
> >
> > the board could not rest directly against the fence, but a bit of
> > scrap circuit board clamped against the fence and flush to the
table
> > fixed that.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "javaguy11111"
> > <javaguy11111@y...> wrote:
> > > Any suggestions on cutting circuit boards. I have used a
bandsaw,
> > but
> > > it tends to be slow, dusty and inaccurate. I have tried paper
> > shears,
> > > but the board tends to get warped and is only good for about two
> > > inches and it is too hard to cut any further.
> > >
> > > I have seen a few references to using a diamond tile saw. They
have
> >
> > > wet tile saws with a diamond blade at home depot for $88 but it
> > seems
> > > that the blade would get gummed up with epoxy and not cut.
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: How to cut circuit boards?

2003-12-22 by Rick C.

Very interesting. I didn't know they made a cheaper on than the one I
show. I have been using the same cutter for over 30 years without a
problem. Almost professional results. I taught two adult education
classes requiring students to purchase their own cutter. Not one cutter
was incapable of doing the job. The cutter model referenced will do the
job. The word "beware" is a strong word to use.
Rick

Ted Inoue wrote:

> After reading other reports of using a paper cutter to cut PCB's, I
> tried it myself and totally ruined my paper cutter. It barely knicked
> the board and instead bent up the back bracket of the cutter (where
> the pivot point is). Obviously not a robust design. However, others
> should beware before trying this method. I was much more successful
> with scoring and snapping the board.
>
> ymmv
>
> -Ted
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Rick C." <rixy@V...> wrote:
> > You might want to check out the way I've been cutting boards here:
> > http://www.pic101.com/pcb
> > Rick
> >
> > javaguy11111 wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks to all for the suggestions. I decided to get a cheap tile
> saw
> > > at Home Depot and I am happy to say that it cuts very well and
> there
> > > was virtually no dust.
> > >
> > > There was a little bit of a copper burr on the edge, but that was
> > > easily filed away.
> > >
> > > One minor inconvenience was that the fence has a gap with the
> table so
> > >
> > > the board could not rest directly against the fence, but a bit of
> > > scrap circuit board clamped against the fence and flush to the
> table
> > > fixed that.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "javaguy11111"
> > > <javaguy11111@y...> wrote:
> > > > Any suggestions on cutting circuit boards. I have used a
> bandsaw,
> > > but
> > > > it tends to be slow, dusty and inaccurate. I have tried paper
> > > shears,
> > > > but the board tends to get warped and is only good for about two
>
> > > > inches and it is too hard to cut any further.
> > > >
> > > > I have seen a few references to using a diamond tile saw. They
> have
> > >
> > > > wet tile saws with a diamond blade at home depot for $88 but it
> > > seems
> > > > that the blade would get gummed up with epoxy and not cut.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: How to cut circuit boards?

2003-12-22 by Leon Heller

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Inoue" <ted@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 12:05 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: How to cut circuit boards?


> After reading other reports of using a paper cutter to cut PCB's, I
> tried it myself and totally ruined my paper cutter. It barely knicked
> the board and instead bent up the back bracket of the cutter (where
> the pivot point is). Obviously not a robust design. However, others
> should beware before trying this method. I was much more successful
> with scoring and snapping the board.

That's what I do. I score it with a scriber first and then with a Stanley
knife, on both sides. It then snaps easily. I usually use Fotoboard 2
laminate( paper-fibreglass composite) - much easier to cut than FR4.

Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
Email: aqzf13@...
My low-cost Philips LPC210x ARM development system:
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller/lpc2104.html

Re: How to cut circuit boards?

2003-12-22 by Dave Mucha

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "javaguy11111"
<javaguy11111@y...> wrote:
> Any suggestions on cutting circuit boards. I have used a bandsaw,
but
> it tends to be slow, dusty and inaccurate. I have tried paper
shears,
> but the board tends to get warped and is only good for about two
> inches and it is too hard to cut any further.
>
> I have seen a few references to using a diamond tile saw. They have
> wet tile saws with a diamond blade at home depot for $88 but it
seems
> that the blade would get gummed up with epoxy and not cut.


Go for the Home Depot machine.

You can buy their blades or ones from the machine shop suppliers in
different type blades.

If you wanna try carbide, search MSA or Travers Tool for jewlers saw
blades.

Dave

Re: How to cut circuit boards?

2003-12-23 by Ted Inoue

The cutter in your picture does look like a heavier duty model. Mine
was a Boston model that is of inadequate design for this purpose. I
think people should be wary in the sense that one should examine their
paper cutter to determine if it has adequate support for the cutting
blade so that they don't end up ruining their cutter, like I did mine.
Hence the beware. I don't doubt that you get excellent results with
your cutter.

Cheers,
-Ted


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Rick C." <rixy@V...> wrote:
> Very interesting. I didn't know they made a cheaper on than the one
I
> show. I have been using the same cutter for over 30 years without a
> problem. Almost professional results. I taught two adult education
> classes requiring students to purchase their own cutter. Not one
cutter
> was incapable of doing the job. The cutter model referenced will do
the
> job. The word "beware" is a strong word to use.
> Rick
>
> Ted Inoue wrote:
>
> > After reading other reports of using a paper cutter to cut PCB's,
I
> > tried it myself and totally ruined my paper cutter. It barely
knicked
> > the board and instead bent up the back bracket of the cutter
(where
> > the pivot point is). Obviously not a robust design. However,
others
> > should beware before trying this method. I was much more
successful
> > with scoring and snapping the board.
> >
> > ymmv
> >
> > -Ted

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: How to cut circuit boards?

2003-12-23 by Stefan Trethan

On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 11:39:42 -0000, Mike Cowlishaw <mfcowli@...>
wrote:

> Mentioned before, I think, but another good way to cut PCBs is a
> table-mounted jigsaw. Probably safer than a circular saw, too.
>
> Here's a picture:
>
> http://www.speleogroup.org/JigSaw-setup.jpg
>
> The blade is a tile & glass cutter blade (tungsten carbide coated).
>
> Mike Cowlishaw
>

I used the same blade as on your picture.
thought is is some diamond blade but now that i think about it it really
looks not like a diamond blade.

I'm not so sure if a jigsaw is safer.
It may be harder to cut a finger off but with all the jerky up and down
movement unexpected things can happen.
(e.g. if you don't hold down the pcb properly)
If you don't lose track where your fingers are i like circular saws more,
they are more "predictable".

But you are right, the blade did cut rather good, though i never got very
straight ;-)
I see you have some guiding there, very good idea i think.

What do you think about the bearings and the glass dust?
i think the linear bearing on the piston (or tappet? what is the correct
word here?) will not last too long?

ST

Re: How to cut circuit boards?

2003-12-24 by mikezcnc

Stan,

Your advice to use the metal fabrication tool is ingenious! I would
never figure out how that thing cuts anything. I was in the store
looking for soemthing to cut and teh salesmen did not know that htey
had it. I kept walking by it several times without realizing what the
beast does. I somehow ended up with a guide fence and a hand puch,
all thanks to you!!!

When I cut my first PCB, I could not believe the quality of the cut!
You were right that this is the ultimate tool to use to cut PCBs.
Thank you VERY much for your information. I would never use a grinder
or sand paper due to possibility of dust, which is a very deadly
substance.

Sincerely,

Mike








--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "stan_katz" <stan_katz@y...>
wrote:
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "javaguy11111"
> <javaguy11111@y...> wrote:
> > Any suggestions on cutting circuit boards. I have used a bandsaw,
> but
> > it tends to be slow, dusty and inaccurate. I have tried paper
> shears,
> > but the board tends to get warped and is only good for about two
> > inches and it is too hard to cut any further.
> >
> > I have seen a few references to using a diamond tile saw. They
have
> > wet tile saws with a diamond blade at home depot for $88 but it
> seems
> > that the blade would get gummed up with epoxy and not cut.
>
> I use a machine shop sheet metal shear that I picked up used for $75
> USD.
> You can buy a sheet metal shear /combo (Sheet Metal Fabrication
Kit)
> from harborfreight.com. Their fall catalog had a sale for $89.99
> marked down from $189.99.
> Machine shop shears are the only way to go if you can afford them.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: How to cut circuit boards?

2003-12-24 by Stefan Trethan

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 19:36:57 -0000, mikezcnc <marabu@...> wrote:

> Stan,
>
> Your advice to use the metal fabrication tool is ingenious! I would never
> figure out how that thing cuts anything. I was in the store looking for
> soemthing to cut and teh salesmen did not know that htey had it. I kept
> walking by it several times without realizing what the beast does. I
> somehow ended up with a guide fence and a hand puch, all thanks to you!!!
>
> When I cut my first PCB, I could not believe the quality of the cut! You
> were right that this is the ultimate tool to use to cut PCBs. Thank you
> VERY much for your information. I would never use a grinder or sand paper
> due to possibility of dust, which is a very deadly substance.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Mike
>
>
>

Can you please post a scan or so of a cut pcb?
maybe the edge?
I used the bungard pcb shear once, (is built like any table shear) and the
cut was really bad. maybe the machine was not adjusted properly or blunt or
something.
that led me to decide that is not the way to go.
(the edges got white a few millimaters inward where the laminate layers
were separated.)

I would really like to see one of your cuts, to see if only that particular
unit was so bad.

Stefan

Re: How to cut circuit boards?

2003-12-26 by mikezcnc

Hi Stan,

You are absolutely correct that Bungard is not the way to go IMO.
http://www.covenantgroup.com.ph/covenant/bungard1.html

I haven't tried Bungard but I have been forced to work with Kepro
Shears ($565 when they were in business) and it was always tricky to
use and everybody was always tense using that bloody finger eater.
However, once I got the shears mentioned in msg 3510, the cuts look
great. I cannot produce the scan because I am in the middle of a few
projects but I tried cutting it several times, different sizes and
concluded that it is simply an incredible tool. If you saw it and
were not familiar with that tool you would probably never figure out
its M.O. The price right now is so bizarre that it's laughable.
Sorry, I couldn't produce images, but imagine having a perfect cut
with a perfect tool, without dust and with much less risk to your
fingers than by using Bungard.

Mike



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 19:36:57 -0000, mikezcnc <marabu@c...> wrote:
>
> > Stan,
> >
> > Your advice to use the metal fabrication tool is ingenious! I
would never
> > figure out how that thing cuts anything. I was in the store
looking for
> > soemthing to cut and teh salesmen did not know that htey had it.
I kept
> > walking by it several times without realizing what the beast
does. I
> > somehow ended up with a guide fence and a hand puch, all thanks
to you!!!
> >
> > When I cut my first PCB, I could not believe the quality of the
cut! You
> > were right that this is the ultimate tool to use to cut PCBs.
Thank you
> > VERY much for your information. I would never use a grinder or
sand paper
> > due to possibility of dust, which is a very deadly substance.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
>
> Can you please post a scan or so of a cut pcb?
> maybe the edge?
> I used the bungard pcb shear once, (is built like any table shear)
and the
> cut was really bad. maybe the machine was not adjusted properly or
blunt or
> something.
> that led me to decide that is not the way to go.
> (the edges got white a few millimaters inward where the laminate
layers
> were separated.)
>
> I would really like to see one of your cuts, to see if only that
particular
> unit was so bad.
>
> Stefan

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: How to cut circuit boards?

2003-12-26 by Stefan Trethan

On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 05:41:07 -0000, mikezcnc <marabu@...> wrote:

> Hi Stan,
>
> You are absolutely correct that Bungard is not the way to go IMO.
> http://www.covenantgroup.com.ph/covenant/bungard1.html
>
> I haven't tried Bungard but I have been forced to work with Kepro Shears
> ($565 when they were in business) and it was always tricky to use and
> everybody was always tense using that bloody finger eater. However, once
> I got the shears mentioned in msg 3510, the cuts look great. I cannot
> produce the scan because I am in the middle of a few projects but I tried
> cutting it several times, different sizes and concluded that it is simply
> an incredible tool. If you saw it and were not familiar with that tool
> you would probably never figure out its M.O. The price right now is so
> bizarre that it's laughable. Sorry, I couldn't produce images, but
> imagine having a perfect cut with a perfect tool, without dust and with
> much less risk to your fingers than by using Bungard.
>
> Mike
>
>

Thanks.

The Bungard shears were my only experience with bench shears.
After using them my mind was made up never using a bench shear for pcb work
again.

It's good to know that it works better with other shears, maybe if i find
one for cheap i will try.

Stefan

Re: How to cut circuit boards?

2003-12-26 by mikezcnc

Stefan,

You don't understand like I couldn't understand until a salesman
showed me how the rollers work in a cutting funtion. It is amazing!
Check post 3510 for numbers at www.harborfreight.com or search there
for metal shears. Metal shears (they call them shears, but they look
nothing like that) and cost $90. This is enough for cutting and hten
you have an optional fence guide kit for $30. I am telling you that
if not for PCB cutting get it as an investment tool because never
will you be able to cut such hard material as PCB with such ease! All
tehnks go to the author of post #3510. And that hole punch is just
sweet. I can have corner holes in no time.

Mike

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 05:41:07 -0000, mikezcnc <marabu@c...> wrote:
>
> > Hi Stan,
> >
> > You are absolutely correct that Bungard is not the way to go IMO.
> > http://www.covenantgroup.com.ph/covenant/bungard1.html
> >
> > I haven't tried Bungard but I have been forced to work with Kepro
Shears
> > ($565 when they were in business) and it was always tricky to use
and
> > everybody was always tense using that bloody finger eater.
However, once
> > I got the shears mentioned in msg 3510, the cuts look great. I
cannot
> > produce the scan because I am in the middle of a few projects but
I tried
> > cutting it several times, different sizes and concluded that it
is simply
> > an incredible tool. If you saw it and were not familiar with that
tool
> > you would probably never figure out its M.O. The price right now
is so
> > bizarre that it's laughable. Sorry, I couldn't produce images,
but
> > imagine having a perfect cut with a perfect tool, without dust
and with
> > much less risk to your fingers than by using Bungard.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
>
> Thanks.
>
> The Bungard shears were my only experience with bench shears.
> After using them my mind was made up never using a bench shear for
pcb work
> again.
>
> It's good to know that it works better with other shears, maybe if
i find
> one for cheap i will try.
>
> Stefan

Re: How to cut circuit boards? small correction

2003-12-28 by mikezcnc

The said shears cut wonderfully a regular fiberglass board. however,
I just learned that a Radio Shack-type Prottype Board gets crack
terribly. I learned it when I was cutting a PCB with positive layer
from GC Electronics. Those boards should be banned due to their low
quality anyway. Overall, I am not planning on using that type of
boards on a regular basis: too awful. Scoring appears the best way
for such boards.


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc" <marabu@c...> wrote:
> Stefan,
>
> You don't understand like I couldn't understand until a salesman
> showed me how the rollers work in a cutting funtion. It is amazing!
> Check post 3510 for numbers at www.harborfreight.com or search
there
> for metal shears. Metal shears (they call them shears, but they
look
> nothing like that) and cost $90. This is enough for cutting and
hten
> you have an optional fence guide kit for $30. I am telling you that
> if not for PCB cutting get it as an investment tool because never
> will you be able to cut such hard material as PCB with such ease!
All
> tehnks go to the author of post #3510. And that hole punch is just
> sweet. I can have corner holes in no time.
>
> Mike
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan
> <stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
> > On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 05:41:07 -0000, mikezcnc <marabu@c...> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Stan,
> > >
> > > You are absolutely correct that Bungard is not the way to go
IMO.
> > > http://www.covenantgroup.com.ph/covenant/bungard1.html
> > >
> > > I haven't tried Bungard but I have been forced to work with
Kepro
> Shears
> > > ($565 when they were in business) and it was always tricky to
use
> and
> > > everybody was always tense using that bloody finger eater.
> However, once
> > > I got the shears mentioned in msg 3510, the cuts look great. I
> cannot
> > > produce the scan because I am in the middle of a few projects
but
> I tried
> > > cutting it several times, different sizes and concluded that it
> is simply
> > > an incredible tool. If you saw it and were not familiar with
that
> tool
> > > you would probably never figure out its M.O. The price right
now
> is so
> > > bizarre that it's laughable. Sorry, I couldn't produce images,
> but
> > > imagine having a perfect cut with a perfect tool, without dust
> and with
> > > much less risk to your fingers than by using Bungard.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > The Bungard shears were my only experience with bench shears.
> > After using them my mind was made up never using a bench shear
for
> pcb work
> > again.
> >
> > It's good to know that it works better with other shears, maybe
if
> i find
> > one for cheap i will try.
> >
> > Stefan

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: How to cut circuit boards? small correction

2003-12-28 by Stefan Trethan

On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 06:02:45 -0000, mikezcnc <marabu@...> wrote:

> The said shears cut wonderfully a regular fiberglass board. however, I
> just learned that a Radio Shack-type Prottype Board gets crack terribly.


Do you have a shear which slides down a blade simultaneously the whole
length?
or do you have shear which pivots the blade down?
Or have i not read wrong and you mentioned a roller?

ST

Re: How to cut circuit boards? small correction

2003-12-29 by mikezcnc

Stefan,

This is the cutter that feeds the board between two rollers and cuts
it while feeding the board. Very unusual but works like a dream. Mike

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 06:02:45 -0000, mikezcnc <marabu@c...> wrote:
>
> > The said shears cut wonderfully a regular fiberglass board.
however, I
> > just learned that a Radio Shack-type Prottype Board gets crack
terribly.
>
>
> Do you have a shear which slides down a blade simultaneously the
whole
> length?
> or do you have shear which pivots the blade down?
> Or have i not read wrong and you mentioned a roller?
>
> ST

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: How to cut circuit boards? small correction

2003-12-29 by Leon Heller

----- Original Message -----
From: "mikezcnc" <marabu@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 11:20 AM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: How to cut circuit boards? small correction


> Stefan,
>
> This is the cutter that feeds the board between two rollers and cuts
> it while feeding the board. Very unusual but works like a dream. Mike
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan
> <stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
> > On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 06:02:45 -0000, mikezcnc <marabu@c...> wrote:
> >
> > > The said shears cut wonderfully a regular fiberglass board.
> however, I
> > > just learned that a Radio Shack-type Prottype Board gets crack
> terribly.

IIRC SRBP board shears properly if it is heated first. This softens the
resin.

Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
Email: aqzf13@...
My low-cost Philips LPC210x ARM development system:
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller/lpc2104.html

Re: How to cut circuit boards? small correction

2003-12-30 by mikezcnc

Great hint, Thank you Leon! Mike

PS Loved your website- very impressive!

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Leon Heller"
<leon_heller@h...> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "mikezcnc" <marabu@c...>
> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 11:20 AM
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: How to cut circuit boards? small
correction
>
>
> > Stefan,
> >
> > This is the cutter that feeds the board between two rollers and
cuts
> > it while feeding the board. Very unusual but works like a dream.
Mike
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan
> > <stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
> > > On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 06:02:45 -0000, mikezcnc <marabu@c...>
wrote:
> > >
> > > > The said shears cut wonderfully a regular fiberglass board.
> > however, I
> > > > just learned that a Radio Shack-type Prottype Board gets crack
> > terribly.
>
> IIRC SRBP board shears properly if it is heated first. This softens
the
> resin.
>
> Leon
> --
> Leon Heller, G1HSM
> Email: aqzf13@d...
> My low-cost Philips LPC210x ARM development system:
> http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller/lpc2104.html