Synth-DIY Yahoo! Groups Archives

Thread

Finished boards

2016-02-28 by richard@...

I'm really not wanting to start a war, or drag up discussions that have already been fully discussed, so please ignore or delete if this if it's contentious.

I've spent 40+ years in the electronics industry, and made my own home boards through a lot of that, but have you seen the price you can buy finished boards for now?. It really questions whether if it is financially worth making your own. As an example, Pcbway will make 10off through hole plated boards, up to 100mm x 100mm (4" sq), solder resist both sides, legend both sides, routed how you want, for 13 US dollars and quality is excellent. Bigger boards are more expensive, but still rediculously cheap compared to domestic boards. ITead are even cheaper and there are many more Chinese companies making cheap boards of good quality. Only downer is delivery - you've got to wait ~3 weeks or pay 25 dollars for a courier.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Finished boards

2016-02-28 by Stefan Trethan

You are right, there is very little point in making a PCB yourself these days.

I did not know PCBway, thanks for the hint.

Another problem I have is that I just can not match the quality (PTH etc.) at home with reasonable effort....

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 2:57 PM, richard@... [Homebrew_PCBs] <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I'm really not wanting to start a war, or drag up discussions that have already been fully discussed, so please ignore or delete if this if it's contentious.

I've spent 40+ years in the electronics industry, and made my own home boards through a lot of that, but have you seen the price you can buy finished boards for now?. It really questions whether if it is financially worth making your own. As an example, Pcbway will make 10off through hole plated boards, up to 100mm x 100mm (4" sq), solder resist both sides, legend both sides, routed how you want, for 13 US dollars and quality is excellent. Bigger boards are more expensive, but still rediculously cheap compared to domestic boards. ITead are even cheaper and there are many more Chinese companies making cheap boards of good quality. Only downer is delivery - you've got to wait ~3 weeks or pay 25 dollars for a courier.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Finished boards

2016-02-28 by Bill Verstelle

This is OK but what if you don't want to wait, or you want to proof your design before you make a production run. Or you are only going to make one board for a project and that's all. Really for me it is easier to design my art work, print it, run artwork and pcb through a laminator a few times, peel off the paper and etch it. In an hour or less I have a board I can use right now. Granted it's not as nice looking, no through hole via's but for but who cares it will be in a box and won't be seen.

Now if I ever designed a board that others would want or I planed to make several then this would be a good option. Plus after 3 weeks I would be on to something else's day would have forgotten about the boards.

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 28, 2016, at 5:57 AM, richard@... [Homebrew_PCBs] <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I'm really not wanting to start a war, or drag up discussions that have already been fully discussed, so please ignore or delete if this if it's contentious.

I've spent 40+ years in the electronics industry, and made my own home boards through a lot of that, but have you seen the price you can buy finished boards for now?. It really questions whether if it is financially worth making your own. As an example, Pcbway will make 10off through hole plated boards, up to 100mm x 100mm (4" sq), solder resist both sides, legend both sides, routed how you want, for 13 US dollars and quality is excellent. Bigger boards are more expensive, but still rediculously cheap compared to domestic boards. ITead are even cheaper and there are many more Chinese companies making cheap boards of good quality. Only downer is delivery - you've got to wait ~3 weeks or pay 25 dollars for a courier.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Finished boards

2016-02-28 by DJ Delorie

"richard@... [Homebrew_PCBs]" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
writes:

> It really questions whether if it is financially worth making your
> own.

This question comes up every once in a while, and the reason to DIY
boils down to these:

1. No online service can deliver a board in an hour or less.
2. Because it's fun.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Finished boards

2016-02-29 by James

I make my own when I need it quick, when it's simple, when it's a one-off or proof-of-concept, when I don't need soldermask, and preferably when I can get it mostly single sided.

For other stuff than that... you are right, it's not worth messing about and I just get them made in China (by dirtypcbs.com)

On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 12:59 PM, DJ Delorie dj@... [Homebrew_PCBs] <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

"richard@... [Homebrew_PCBs]" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
writes:
> It really questions whether if it is financially worth making your
> own.

This question comes up every once in a while, and the reason to DIY
boils down to these:

1. No online service can deliver a board in an hour or less.
2. Because it's fun.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Finished boards

2016-02-29 by cs6061@...

I was faced with the same dilemma, I have etched a lot of boards over the years in my work shop but now I just can't justify it any more. The processing lead time is the only down side, I guess I have developed more patients in my old age. I usually get boards from Accutrace in less then 10 days and for smaller boards from OSH park in less then 15 days. If you keep the size down the cost is amazingly low, Accutrace has a 20 sqin 2 layer special for $3 each with a 10pc minimum. You can pack a lot of SMT stuff on 20sqin. I use OSH park for very small boards, usually less than 4 or 5 sq inches, you get 3 copies for $5/sqin. I currently have three designs in the pipe line with them. Last week I sent them a very small one, the cost as $3.95 and that includes shipping.

I have fully transitioned over to SMT but still hand solder the parts down, some day I will get a reflow oven, but by eyes, with the assistance of Mr. Bausch and Lomb can still do 0603 but I stick with 0805 unless I really really need to use the smaller part. The 0805's are just so much easier to do. The solder mask, PTH, and silk art more than offset the wait. Hell you have to order the parts and write the code anyway. And don't for get you can put parts on both sides. Then there is always a piece of vector board if you just can't wait.

A different Craig

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Finished boards

2016-02-29 by Bill Verstelle

I'm curious what software are you using to have the boards made? That would be another learning curve for me. Right now I use Eagle cad but I can only do basic work on it right now.

Bill N7OQ

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 28, 2016, at 5:57 AM, richard@... [Homebrew_PCBs] <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I'm really not wanting to start a war, or drag up discussions that have already been fully discussed, so please ignore or delete if this if it's contentious.

I've spent 40+ years in the electronics industry, and made my own home boards through a lot of that, but have you seen the price you can buy finished boards for now?. It really questions whether if it is financially worth making your own. As an example, Pcbway will make 10off through hole plated boards, up to 100mm x 100mm (4" sq), solder resist both sides, legend both sides, routed how you want, for 13 US dollars and quality is excellent. Bigger boards are more expensive, but still rediculously cheap compared to domestic boards. ITead are even cheaper and there are many more Chinese companies making cheap boards of good quality. Only downer is delivery - you've got to wait ~3 weeks or pay 25 dollars for a courier.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Finished boards

2016-02-29 by Stefan Trethan

If you are looking for free software, I would have a look at DesignSpark PCB from RS components.
<http://www.rs-online.com/designspark/electronics/>

It's a variant of Easy-PC, made by the Pulsonix people.

The mechanical software is also nice for 3D printing, and easy to learn.

I think Mouser also offeres a sponsored PCB software (something blue), but I don't have any experience with it.

Eagle is owned by Farnell now, not sure if they are happy with it, there was talk of them dabbling in a customized Altium version.

On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 8:53 AM, Bill Verstelle verstelle@... [Homebrew_PCBs] <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I'm curious what software are you using to have the boards made? That would be another learning curve for me. Right now I use Eagle cad but I can only do basic work on it right now.
Bill N7OQ

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 28, 2016, at 5:57 AM, richard@... [Homebrew_PCBs] <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I'm really not wanting to start a war, or drag up discussions that have already been fully discussed, so please ignore or delete if this if it's contentious.

I've spent 40+ years in the electronics industry, and made my own home boards through a lot of that, but have you seen the price you can buy finished boards for now?. It really questions whether if it is financially worth making your own. As an example, Pcbway will make 10off through hole plated boards, up to 100mm x 100mm (4" sq), solder resist both sides, legend both sides, routed how you want, for 13 US dollars and quality is excellent. Bigger boards are more expensive, but still rediculously cheap compared to domestic boards. ITead are even cheaper and there are many more Chinese companies making cheap boards of good quality. Only downer is delivery - you've got to wait ~3 weeks or pay 25 dollars for a courier.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Finished boards

2016-02-29 by James

> I'm curious what software are you using to have the boards made?

PCB fabricators usually accept Gerber files, which any good PCB cad tool will export. Some also will accept your actual source files (Eagle in your case), but that's risky if you ask me, you can never know if random Chinese bloke in the factory will generate the artwork correctly if you just give them your sources. Better to generate the gerbers yourself and check them in a gerber viewer before you send them away.

Usually you would export the layers for a 2-layer board as separate gerber files...

Board Outline

Silk Top

Silk Bottom

Mask Top

Mask Bottom

Copper Top

Copper Bottom

and then a drill file for the holes, and slots if any. Some fabs might allow two drill files, one for unplated and one for plated holes.

What the files are called depends on the fab, usually it's just different file extensions, the following are loosely standardised

.GTO and .GBO for top and bottom silk

.GTS and .GBS for top and bottom mask

.GTL and .GBL for top and bottom copper

.GML/GKO/GBR/GM1 for the board outline itself

.TXT for the N/C Drill file of the holes

On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 8:53 PM, Bill Verstelle verstelle@... [Homebrew_PCBs] <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I'm curious what software are you using to have the boards made? That would be another learning curve for me. Right now I use Eagle cad but I can only do basic work on it right now.
Bill N7OQ

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 28, 2016, at 5:57 AM, richard@... [Homebrew_PCBs] <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I'm really not wanting to start a war, or drag up discussions that have already been fully discussed, so please ignore or delete if this if it's contentious.

I've spent 40+ years in the electronics industry, and made my own home boards through a lot of that, but have you seen the price you can buy finished boards for now?. It really questions whether if it is financially worth making your own. As an example, Pcbway will make 10off through hole plated boards, up to 100mm x 100mm (4" sq), solder resist both sides, legend both sides, routed how you want, for 13 US dollars and quality is excellent. Bigger boards are more expensive, but still rediculously cheap compared to domestic boards. ITead are even cheaper and there are many more Chinese companies making cheap boards of good quality. Only downer is delivery - you've got to wait ~3 weeks or pay 25 dollars for a courier.

Re: Finished boards

2016-02-29 by cs6061@...

I have been using DipTrace for the past couple of years. It's fairly easy to use, has an extensive library and has a free pin limited version for boards. They also have a low cost non commercial license for larger designs. Like any package, there is a learning curve and has its quirks. It consists of four editors; schematic, PCB, Component and Pattern. Locate your components from the library or make your own, draw the schematic then export the design to the PCB editor. You can design directly in the PCB editor without a schematic but that only makes sense for very simple stuff.

Craig

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Finished boards

2016-03-01 by richard@...

Well, Pcbway turn the boards round in an advertised 3-5 days, but I have yet to know them take more than 3 days, and sometimes overnight. If you pay for DHL you'll have them quick. Last DHL order I had from them they started making friday evening, finished saturday afternoon, despatched 6pm from china and received at my door in EU monday morning!.

Yes, I definitely see peoples point on small one offs if you're in a "want it in hours" type of hurry, and it's OK for your prototype to be purely functional, and not the same technology, size, or number of sides, no via or plated holes.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Finished boards

2016-03-01 by richard@...

Eagle is fine, I believe some of them have an Eagle rules file for download. Most manufacturers want Gerber files, one file per layer, but some will take native altium, orcad or eagle files. If you want to exactly define where you want solder resist, routing, etc, you are safer to use Gerbers.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Finished boards

2016-03-01 by richard@...

Agree with that fully. I only once supplied a native file which had a rectangular pad each side with very dense vias. The idea was to try to solder a power-pad type mosfet through the board as I had no reflow kit. I got the solder resist layer just so, but they threw it away, looked only at top and bottom layers, and tented over every single via because "that is how we do it, if you want specifics then send Gerbers". I now send Gerbers :)

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Finished boards

2016-03-08 by duwaynes@...

I use Eagle and can upload the file directly to OSHPark. Their online upload function will show you what the board will look like. You can also upload gerber files. They had a CAM processor script for Eagle that will allow you to generate gerber files if you wish. Other board suppliers have Eagle CAM processor scripts that will generate the gerber files that they need.
One thing to always do is use a gerber viewer to verify what you send to the board house will do exactly what you want. I caught a mistake I had made in a set of gerber files I sent in and luckily caught in time and was able to send in corrected files.
There are several free or online gerber viewers available.
DuWayne

FS: book, "My Life With The Printed Circuit" [Homebrew_PCBs]

2016-03-08 by Brad Thompson

Hello--

I'm offering FS one only copy of "My Life With The Printed Circuit", by
Paul Eisner, 1st edition, published
in June, 1989, Lehigh University Press, Bethlehem, PA., 170 pp., ISBN:
0-934223-04-1

Condition of this EX-LIBRARY book rates as "very good"-- there's no dust
jacket, the boards' corners are
bumped and slightly shelfworn, and the usual library markings and card
pocket are present. The binding
is tight and there are no markings or underlinings.

Born in 1907, Paul Eisler emigrated to England from Austria in 1936,
where it became clear that
Austrian fascists were persecuting people of Jewish ancestry. In
England, he was briefly interned
before WW II began. His invention-- the printed circuit-- was picked up
by the U.S. and used in
proximity fuses. All told, Eisler received over 100 patents in the U.K.
and U.S. for diverse
designs, including electrically-heated wallpaper, variable capacitors,
and foil-electrode storage batteries.
Later chapters in this autobiography discuss the patent system and the
challenges of being an inventor.

I'm asking $27.00, which includes USPS media-mail postage to U.S. addresses.

PayPal honored, questions welcomed.

Thanks, and 73--

Brad AA1IP

Spoken for: FS: book, "My Life With The Printed Circuit" [Homebrew_PCBs]

2016-03-08 by Brad Thompson

Hello--

The book is sold.

Thanks, and 73--

Brad AA1IP