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Toner Transfer Wow What a Difference!

Toner Transfer Wow What a Difference!

2003-12-06 by Moore

What a difference a printer makes. I've been doing a few boards and
learning the process, was getting fairly good results but needed to
do more touchup with a pen that I thought I should have to. After a
half a dozen boards and trial and error with a couple of papers, I
suspected my laser (hp 2100) wasn't putting down enough toner, so I
switched to a different machine. Right away I could tell by looking
much, much, much more toner. My first board with it is in a final
soak right now (99% of the paper removed), but I can already tell it
works a ton better. Just using a $10 iron from the Dollar store.
The only thing I have to watch using a hand iron is around the
edges. I suspect that is because of heat transfer issues.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Toner Transfer Wow What a Difference!

2003-12-06 by Tony Harris

So which printer did you go with that is giving the better results? Also,
you mentioned that it is in soak, I for one will be interested how it worked
after etch and also if you have pics? (a pic pre-etch would be nice too :)

-Tony
----- Original Message -----
From: "Moore" <pminmo@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 10:36 AM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Toner Transfer Wow What a Difference!


> What a difference a printer makes. I've been doing a few boards and
> learning the process, was getting fairly good results but needed to
> do more touchup with a pen that I thought I should have to. After a
> half a dozen boards and trial and error with a couple of papers, I
> suspected my laser (hp 2100) wasn't putting down enough toner, so I
> switched to a different machine. Right away I could tell by looking
> much, much, much more toner. My first board with it is in a final
> soak right now (99% of the paper removed), but I can already tell it
> works a ton better.

Re: Toner Transfer Wow What a Difference!

2003-12-06 by Steve

Yes, let us know!

I had barely useable results using inkjet transparency in a Lexmark
4029 600dpi Postscript laser. My theory was that the inkjet coating
would dissolve in water and the transparency would allow me to see
when I'd successfully pressed.

In fact, it was impossible to get water all the way under the
transparency and since the toner is not transparent I could not really
tell when it was successfully bonded to the copper.

I need to hook the Lexmark laser up again and try some other methods
mentioned here, including using those foils, left-over sticker backing
sheets, magazine pages, etc.

Steve

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Harris" <tony@e...> wrote:
> So which printer did you go with that is giving the better results?
Also,
> you mentioned that it is in soak, I for one will be interested how
it worked
> after etch and also if you have pics? (a pic pre-etch would be nice
too :)

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Moore" <pminmo@c...>

> > ... I
> > suspected my laser (hp 2100) wasn't putting down enough toner, so I
> > switched to a different machine. Right away I could tell by looking
> > much, much, much more toner. My first board with it is in a final
> > soak right now (99% of the paper removed), but I can already tell it
> > works a ton better.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Toner Transfer Wow What a Difference!

2003-12-09 by Alan King

Steve wrote:

> Yes, let us know!
>
> I had barely useable results using inkjet transparency in a Lexmark
> 4029 600dpi Postscript laser. My theory was that the inkjet coating
> would dissolve in water and the transparency would allow me to see
> when I'd successfully pressed.
>
> In fact, it was impossible to get water all the way under the
> transparency and since the toner is not transparent I could not really
> tell when it was successfully bonded to the copper.
>

You do not need the coating to desolve to get results. Send the page
back through the printer an extra time or two, printing nothing. Extra
fusing gets better toner/coating bond. A good ironing and the toner
sticks, and smooth slow peeling under water the coating will simply rip
at the edges of the traces. I'm peeling within 30 seconds of getting it
wet, slight softening of the coating but I'm not sure that's long enough
to think of it as disolving.

And you don't want it to disolve. Disolve and it comes away from the
paper as well as the traces, and that's why it leaves coating in the
holes and between close traces. You want it to peel well, and peel away
all the extra coating material, not disolve and leave coating on the
board. My own boards are far improved since viewing it this way..

Alan

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Toner Transfer Wow What a Difference! (? Alan King)

2003-12-11 by Alan King

Moore wrote:
>>You do not need the coating to desolve to get results. Send the page
>>back through the printer an extra time or two, printing nothing.
>>Extra fusing gets better toner/coating bond.
>
>
> Which side of the paper? i.e. run same as the way originally printed?
>

Won't matter, just print nothing to get the extra heat bonding. It
also seems to make the coating less sticky so the unprinted coating
sticks less and you get a better peel.

Alan

PCB drill

2003-12-12 by Alan King

Put up some other stuff anyway, so here's my homemade PCB CNC drill
(I etch the boards not mill though). All bolt together, mostly metal,
all cheap parts from Lowes and Ace. Cheap $20 drill from Walmart, I
have it aligned properly and use #79 and #80 bits all the time. Have my
own controller and hundreds of new condition surplus stepper motors.
Other pics are yoke and rudders pedals if you're interested, and a 3MB
beacon mpg.


http://home.nc.rr.com/alan69/FlightGear/CNC.jpg

http://home.nc.rr.com/alan69/FlightGear/yoke1.jpg
http://home.nc.rr.com/alan69/FlightGear/yoke2.jpg
http://home.nc.rr.com/alan69/Beacon.mpg

Alan

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] PCB drill

2003-12-12 by Markus Zingg

> Put up some other stuff anyway, so here's my homemade PCB CNC drill
>(I etch the boards not mill though). All bolt together, mostly metal,
>all cheap parts from Lowes and Ace. Cheap $20 drill from Walmart, I
>have it aligned properly and use #79 and #80 bits all the time. Have my
>own controller and hundreds of new condition surplus stepper motors.
>Other pics are yoke and rudders pedals if you're interested, and a 3MB
>beacon mpg.
>
>
>http://home.nc.rr.com/alan69/FlightGear/CNC.jpg
>
>http://home.nc.rr.com/alan69/FlightGear/yoke1.jpg
>http://home.nc.rr.com/alan69/FlightGear/yoke2.jpg
>http://home.nc.rr.com/alan69/Beacon.mpg

Nice drill of yours!

I haven't followed the group too closely lately due to much work, so
please bear with me but I really wonder. What the heck is the thing on
that mpeg video???

Markus

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] PCB drill

2003-12-12 by Alexandre Guimarães

Hi, Alan

> Put up some other stuff anyway, so here's my homemade PCB CNC drill
> (I etch the boards not mill though). All bolt together, mostly metal,
> all cheap parts from Lowes and Ace. Cheap $20 drill from Walmart, I

It is a very interesting machine... Do you have more pictures or
drawnings of it ???

Best regards,
Alexandre Guimaraes

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] PCB drill

2003-12-12 by Ted Huntington

That looks impressive. I guess those are bipolar motors that you
attached to gear reducer heads and control with a serial/parallel
port? That is interesting that you were able to use brackets that a
person can buy at most hardware stores I guess. Can you use a drill
file from software like Eagle to do all the drilling from the diagram
automatically? I guess because you have to change the drill bits by
hand, you have to edit the drill file then. Are you using a chip like
the HIP4081A or a PIC like PIC16F77 to control the motors?

This person has a useful tutorial on a home-built PCB drill/mill:
http://cryolite.ath.cx/i/pcb-router

Thanks
Ted

Alan King wrote:

>
> Put up some other stuff anyway, so here's my homemade PCB CNC drill
>
> (I etch the boards not mill though). All bolt together, mostly metal,
>
> all cheap parts from Lowes and Ace. Cheap $20 drill from Walmart, I
> have it aligned properly and use #79 and #80 bits all the time. Have
> my
> own controller and hundreds of new condition surplus stepper motors.
> Other pics are yoke and rudders pedals if you're interested, and a 3MB
>
> beacon mpg.
>
>
> http://home.nc.rr.com/alan69/FlightGear/CNC.jpg
>
> http://home.nc.rr.com/alan69/FlightGear/yoke1.jpg
> http://home.nc.rr.com/alan69/FlightGear/yoke2.jpg
> http://home.nc.rr.com/alan69/Beacon.mpg
>
> Alan
>
>
>
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--
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] PCB drill

2003-12-13 by Alan King

> What the heck is the thing on
that mpeg video???

Look up "propeller clock" on the net. Bob Blick gets the credit for
putting it on a motor which is brilliant, but a friend and I were doing
the same thing on RC Heli blades for night flying visual a year or two
before his site. Actually there are toys with similar ideas back to at
least the late 70's early 80's.

> It is a very interesting machine... Do you have more pictures or
drawnings of it ???

(CNC that is) Not yet, although it's pretty simple. I may
eventually sell some on Ebay, but even then may still decide to put up
some plans.

Ted Huntington wrote:
> That looks impressive. I guess those are bipolar motors that you
> attached to gear reducer heads and control with a serial/parallel
> port? That is interesting that you were able to use brackets that a
> person can buy at most hardware stores I guess. Can you use a drill
> file from software like Eagle to do all the drilling from the diagram
> automatically? I guess because you have to change the drill bits by
> hand, you have to edit the drill file then. Are you using a chip like
> the HIP4081A or a PIC like PIC16F77 to control the motors?
>
> This person has a useful tutorial on a home-built PCB drill/mill:
> http://cryolite.ath.cx/i/pcb-router
>

Yep bipolar. My controller is my own design and will run any stepper
5 phase or less. No gear though, just straight shaft to 1/4"-20
threaded rod. That is 200 steps X 20 for 4000 steps/inch. Do have 150
or so geared Vextas if I needed them, but never used many so far because
they're 3600 steps/rev to start. Need coarser pitch ballscrews for those.

My controller is intelligent, and the basic program on the PC just
outputs coordinates to it and waits till it signals done moving. Easy
to do the drill files from Eagle, and I typically just have it go
through the file twice. First does the smaller drills with one bit,
then lets me bit change and does all larger drills with another. Two
drills that have one doing the smaller range of holes and one the larger
is pretty effective, little need for 10 real drill sizes on a homemade
board. Actually I largely surface mount now, so not so many holes
anyway. It's 16F877 based on the controller.

Thanks for the refresh on the link, I've seen it before but it's been
a while. There were reasons I went with the gantry though, to build a
larger CNC it gets cumbersome to have the hanging fixed Z. Have to get
my second generation controller board done now though, it's similar but
much advanced over the first one.

Alan

Of Ink Jets and Such

2004-02-03 by milwiron@terrorbydesign.com

Has anyone tried a Epson sublimation printer? The ink is supposed to be
"waterproof".

Re: Of Ink Jets and Such

2004-02-04 by pebo festus

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <alienrelics@y...>
wrote:
> You mean inkjet sublimation ink. It won't work, it is a dye that
> requires a polymer to transfer into.
>
> http://www.dyesub.org
>
> Steve
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, milwiron@t... wrote:
> >
> > Has anyone tried a Epson sublimation printer? The ink is supposed
to be
> > "waterproof".

well--am wondering if one could coat the blank pcb with some kind of
polymer coating? then print with sublimation ink. i see that it
heats during the process. donno?
mebo

Re: Of Ink Jets and Such

2004-02-04 by Steve

> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, milwiron@t... wrote:
> > >
> > > Has anyone tried a Epson sublimation printer? The ink is supposed
> to be
> > > "waterproof".

> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <alienrelics@y...>
> wrote:
> > You mean inkjet sublimation ink. It won't work, it is a dye that
> > requires a polymer to transfer into.
> >
> > http://www.dyesub.org
> >
> > Steve
> >
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "pebo festus" <mebo31@y...> wrote:

> well--am wondering if one could coat the blank pcb with some kind of
> polymer coating? then print with sublimation ink. i see that it
> heats during the process. donno?
> mebo

And you end up with a plastic coated board that won't etch, but has a
pretty picture on it. ;')

Dye sublimation prints on a Tshirt or mug are waterproof because the
plastic polymer on the mug and the polyester of the Tshirt are
waterproof. Dye sublimation "soaks" the color -into- the
polymer/polyester, that's why it only works on those items and not on
bare metal or cotton.

It is -not- a coating.

Did you take a look at the link I gave?

Steve

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Of Ink Jets and Such

2004-02-04 by pebo festus

yes i read it, thanks for the link steve.
mebo




--- Steve <alienrelics@...> wrote:
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com,
> milwiron@t... wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Has anyone tried a Epson sublimation printer?
> The ink is supposed
> > to be
> > > > "waterproof".
>
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Steve"
> <alienrelics@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > You mean inkjet sublimation ink. It won't work,
> it is a dye that
> > > requires a polymer to transfer into.
> > >
> > > http://www.dyesub.org
> > >
> > > Steve
> > >
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "pebo festus"
> <mebo31@y...> wrote:
>
> > well--am wondering if one could coat the blank pcb
> with some kind of
> > polymer coating? then print with sublimation ink.
> i see that it
> > heats during the process. donno?
> > mebo
>
> And you end up with a plastic coated board that
> won't etch, but has a
> pretty picture on it. ;')
>
> Dye sublimation prints on a Tshirt or mug are
> waterproof because the
> plastic polymer on the mug and the polyester of the
> Tshirt are
> waterproof. Dye sublimation "soaks" the color -into-
> the
> polymer/polyester, that's why it only works on those
> items and not on
> bare metal or cotton.
>
> It is -not- a coating.
>
> Did you take a look at the link I gave?
>
> Steve
>
>


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Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Of Ink Jets and Such

2004-02-07 by pebo festus

the glycerin keeps the ink from drying to fast, i
would guess the glycol keeps it from freezing. would
be nice if they would have given her the percentage of
the mix.
mebo



--- IntruderSat <IntruderSat@...> wrote:
>
>
http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/byform/mailing-lists/exlibris/1999/08/msg00224.html
>
>
> --
> <IntruderSat@...>
>
>


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