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Home made double side PCB with solder mask and silk screen!

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Home made double side PCB with solder mask and silk screen!

2014-02-24 by ctech

arg, did yahoo groups strip the image out?
I'll post it on my site later on....


On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 10:17 AM, Vicent Colomar Prats <vicentecolomar@...> wrote:
 

No, this is not nice because there is nothing I can see (not image nor link).


2014-02-22 0:13 GMT+01:00 ctech <ctech4285@...>:
 

[image: Inline image 1]

NIce eh?

Andreas
Nicadrone.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Home made double side PCB with solder mask and silk screen!

2014-02-24 by ctech



On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 10:20 AM, ctech <ctech4285@...> wrote:
arg, did yahoo groups strip the image out?
I'll post it on my site later on....


On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 10:17 AM, Vicent Colomar Prats <vicentecolomar@...> wrote:
 

No, this is not nice because there is nothing I can see (not image nor link).


2014-02-22 0:13 GMT+01:00 ctech <ctech4285@...>:
 

[image: Inline image 1]

NIce eh?

Andreas
Nicadrone.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] RE: Home made double side PCB with solder mask and silk screen!

2014-02-26 by ctech

Thanks javierete,
The UV paint is the same used for the solder mask and etching and you can get it for this here: http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_osacat=0&_armrs=1&_ssn=goldpart&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xpcb+uv&_nkw=pcb+uv&_sacat=0&_from=R40

dilute the paint 50-75% alcohol pure without water and 25-50% paint. The more paint the thicker paint layer you can make.

I'll do some more work on the tutorial soon, I'll keep you posted

Regards
Andreas


On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 11:01 AM, <javierete@...> wrote:
 

Hi ctech


Your boards have very good finish, keep us posted!

How do you dilute the mask paint? And what about the silkscreen? BTW I think you didn't finish the tutorial so I'll stay tuned on your webpage.

Regards!


Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] RE: Home made double side PCB with solder mask and silk screen!

2014-02-27 by <n0tt1@...>

Just asking...that UV paint has a "short" shelf life, doesn't it?

Charlie

On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 11:40:46 -0600 ctech <ctech4285@...> writes:

Thanks javierete,

The UV paint is the same used for the solder mask and etching and you can
get it for this here:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_osacat=0&_armrs=1&_ssn=goldpart&_t
rksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xpcb+uv&_nkw=pcb+uv&_sacat=0&_f
rom=R40


dilute the paint 50-75% alcohol pure without water and 25-50% paint. The
more paint the thicker paint layer you can make.


I'll do some more work on the tutorial soon, I'll keep you posted

Regards
Andreas




On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 11:01 AM, <javierete@...> wrote:


Hi ctech


Your boards have very good finish, keep us posted!


How do you dilute the mask paint? And what about the silkscreen? BTW I
think you didn't finish the tutorial so I'll stay tuned on your webpage.


Regards!




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] RE: Home made double side PCB with solder mask and silk screen!

2014-02-27 by James

On 27/02/14 13:33, n0tt1@... wrote:
 

Just asking...that UV paint has a "short" shelf life, doesn't it?


Not that I'm aware of.  I have a couple 100g tubs of it kicking around, one has been here for well over a year and looks, smells, spreads, and cures the same as it always did.

That said, I have only really had good luck with some red stuff I got in 10cc lots, I probably had that kicking around for about 9 months before I ran out, and it worked just fine.  The white and blue I have large amounts of is quite hard to use, at least in the way I've been doing it (I've described here before).

I'm surprised that ctech got such good results.  Firstly, that he managed to dry it before UV curing. The only one I've seen that can be dried was the blue, the others don't really dry (before UV cure) at all, at least not air-dry, no matter how long you leave it.  Secondly that he thinned it with alcohol, I'm sure I tried that once and it didn't work.  Maybe it's the thinning and air-brushing that does the trick, perhaps such a thin coating will dry (at which point it would be MUCH easier to work with).

But certainly I think I will give it another go in the weekend, thin some out the same as ctech did and load it in my air brush to see if I can get the amazing results he did.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] RE: Home made double side PCB with solder mask and silk screen!

2014-02-27 by <n0tt1@...>

Thanks for that info, James.

I'm thinking the stuff really *should* dry. Like you said,
it *would* be a lot easier to work with. Maybe baking
in an oven? <Not in the wife's kitchen oven!!! :0) >

On Thu, 27 Feb 2014 14:08:50 +1300 James <bitsyboffin@...> writes:

On 27/02/14 13:33, n0tt1@... wrote:


Just asking...that UV paint has a "short" shelf life, doesn't it?


Not that I'm aware of. I have a couple 100g tubs of it kicking around,
one has been here for well over a year and looks, smells, spreads, and
cures the same as it always did.

That said, I have only really had good luck with some red stuff I got in
10cc lots, I probably had that kicking around for about 9 months before I
ran out, and it worked just fine. The white and blue I have large
amounts of is quite hard to use, at least in the way I've been doing it
(I've described here before).

I'm surprised that ctech got such good results. Firstly, that he managed
to dry it before UV curing. The only one I've seen that can be dried was
the blue, the others don't really dry (before UV cure) at all, at least
not air-dry, no matter how long you leave it. Secondly that he thinned
it with alcohol, I'm sure I tried that once and it didn't work. Maybe
it's the thinning and air-brushing that does the trick, perhaps such a
thin coating will dry (at which point it would be MUCH easier to work
with).

But certainly I think I will give it another go in the weekend, thin some
out the same as ctech did and load it in my air brush to see if I can get
the amazing results he did.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] RE: Home made double side PCB with solder mask and silk screen!

2014-03-01 by James

Well, I tried diluting and airbrushing some of the ink (white) but didn't have any success.

Well, it dilutes ok.  It airbrushes fine to a thin coating.  And I "baked" it in the oven at 180 degrees C for about 20 minutes and it "dried" ok, soft but tack-free.  Then I tried to cure it under the UV.

But... it doesn't seem to cure under the UV at all, something is inhibiting it, it can easily be scraped just by gently rubbing your finger nail on it or even just pressing your finger nail on it, there is no difference between masked area and exposed area.  And meths on a cloth just wipes the board clean with no effort at all.

The alcohol I'm using is just Methlyated Spirits (>= 95% ethanol, and the rest water with a tiny amount of a bittering agent)
The UV cure I gave up at 30 minutes, no change in the hardness or fastness was particularly noticable, it was still "soft".
Hmm, I notice on the referenced site ( http://nicadrone.com/index.php?id_cms=24&controller=cms ):
  "Dry the paint in a reflow oven, drying temperature influences exposure time drastically above 100C "
it doesn't say in which direction it influences, perhaps my drying temperature is too hot and this messes the exposure?

So in short it would be really great if Andreas (ctech) could give some brief details...

  1. your board shows a soldermask (green) and a silkscreen (white), which paints exactly did you use for these?  Just the ebay ones, one green and one white?
  2. what type of alcohol did you use specifically, ethanol, isopropanol, methanol...?
  3. what temperature and time did you "bake" the board at to dry it?
  4. are you doing anything else before exposure?
  5. how long as you exposing the board for to the UV under the mask?
  6. what type of UV source are you using, and are you using any fancy things like a vacuum system?
  7. how are you developing it after exposure exactly, with the same alcohol, with sodium hydroxide...?

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] RE: Home made double side PCB with solder mask and silk screen!

2014-03-01 by Russell Shaw

On 01/03/14 16:56, James wrote:
>
>
> Well, I tried diluting and airbrushing some of the ink (white) but didn't have
> any success.
>
> Well, it dilutes ok. It airbrushes fine to a thin coating. And I "baked" it in
> the oven at 180 degrees C for about 20 minutes and it "dried" ok, soft but
> tack-free. Then I tried to cure it under the UV.
>
> But... it doesn't seem to cure under the UV at all, something is inhibiting it

Expose it in direct sunlight (it has a *lot* of UV). If it works, maybe your UV
source is no good.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] RE: Home made double side PCB with solder mask and silk screen!

2014-03-01 by ctech

sorry for the late response arggg yahoo groups mail delivery!!

>Just asking...that UV paint has a "short" shelf life, doesn't it
no, I mix 200g up in the spray gun and it last me over 6 months.
Its properties seem to change a little bit, every now and then I have to adjust exposure time up or down by 2 minutes.

>Firstly, that he
managed to dry it before UV curing.
The trick is thin code (but still think enough that you can barley see throw the board) and dry it in a controlled temperature environment. Tosters do not work. The paint will start curing when you heat it up too much and the point between dry enough to apply the mask and curing is very close ~5-10deg C
(105-115deg it starts to cure, higher and it's all crap) when the color tone changes slightly its junk

Also I just dry the pain enough to apply the mask, it is a little bit sticky but the mask can be moved a little bit, and the paint does stick a little to the mask after curing so masks are one time use only.

>And I
"baked" it in the oven at 180 degrees C for about 20 minutes and it "dried" ok, soft but tack-free.
No!!! way to hot. 105deg C 30 minutes, 115deg and I get crappy results. And index the mask when the board is just a little tacky

regards
Andreas




On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 5:24 AM, Russell Shaw <rjshaw@...> wrote:
 

On 01/03/14 16:56, James wrote:
>
>
> Well, I tried diluting and airbrushing some of the ink (white) but didn't have
> any success.
>
> Well, it dilutes ok. It airbrushes fine to a thin coating. And I "baked" it in
> the oven at 180 degrees C for about 20 minutes and it "dried" ok, soft but
> tack-free. Then I tried to cure it under the UV.
>
> But... it doesn't seem to cure under the UV at all, something is inhibiting it

Expose it in direct sunlight (it has a *lot* of UV). If it works, maybe your UV
source is no good.


Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] RE: Home made double side PCB with solder mask and silk screen!

2014-03-01 by James Sleeman

Russell Shaw wrote:
>
>
> Expose it in direct sunlight (it has a *lot* of UV). If it works,
> maybe your UV
> source is no good
>

I will, but my UV box has cured it normally (without the thinning and
baking) fine, rather unlikely that every single one of the 200 leds has
lost it's UV emitting power since I last used it (and yes I did check
they are turning on) :-)

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] RE: Home made double side PCB with solder mask and silk screen!

2014-03-01 by James Sleeman

ctech wrote:
>
> (105-115deg it starts to cure, higher and it's all crap) when the
> color tone changes slightly its junk
>

I tried at 110 degrees 30 mins, no difference, touch dry, soft, doesn't
UV cure. No colour change is observed at any temperature.

Maybe my ink is just different to your ink.

I will try curing an alcohol diluted sample today as I normally would
under cellophane without baking and see if it can still be cured or if
it is the changes induced by the alcohol thinning which causes the problem.

>
> Also I just dry the pain enough to apply the mask, it is a little bit
> sticky but the mask can be moved a little bit, and the paint does
> stick a little to the mask after curing so masks are one time use only.
Hmmm. Curiouser and curiouser. If the paint is sticking to the mask,
why is it not bonding the mask to the board strongly I wonder, as it
normally would. What are you using for the mask?

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] RE: Home made double side PCB with solder mask and silk screen!

2014-03-02 by James

On 02/03/14 11:38, James Sleeman wrote:
> I will try curing an alcohol diluted sample today as I normally would
> under cellophane without baking and see if it can still be cured or if
> it is the changes induced by the alcohol thinning which causes the
> problem.

I can confirm that the diluted airbrushed coating does UV cure when wet
and covered with the usual cellophane - although I only did a brief
exposure to check so I could clean it off again, I didn't do a long
exposure yet so don't know if the other properties of hardness, non
conductivity, soldering heat resistance etc remain.

So that I guess leaves two possibles for the non-exposure of the "dried"
one. Heat damaging the UV cure properties. Or the "drying" meaning
that the oxygen removal of the cellophane layer is not possible (due to
not sticking to it as it does when wet) - as we know, this stuff doesn't
normally UV cure in the presence of oxygen, at least when wet.

Hmm. I don't have an oven that can accurately hold 100 degrees C :-/