Homebrew_PCBs

----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony" <toftat@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 4:51 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Toner Transfer questions...


> Being new to this, I am trying to make a toner transfer board. I have
> made one very simple postage stamp sized board and it worked OK. I am
> now trying to do a slightly more complex board (in a crawl-walk-run
> kinda thing) and am having a lot less luck. I have tried to transfer
> a couple of times and decided it wouldn't work right.
>
> I am printing on my regular 20lb 84 brightness Georgia
> Pacific "Copier Paper" $3 from walmart, and it leaves a lot
> of "hairs" on the toner. If I am aggressive enough to get these off,
> I also pull the toner off the board.
>
> How hard should I try to get these off? My first thought was they too
> will act as resist and I need to get them all off, is this true?
> Becaused my second thought was that they'll absorb the etchant (FeCl)
> and etch anyway albeit a bit slower.
>
> Is there any better paper out there that won't cost a fortune, I have
> seen the press'n'peel stuff and at $2 a sheet it's a bit costly if
> it's one shot. I have a small budget but I can afford to use a bit of
> time on the process.

Try using shiny paper, like ink jet paper, or from a magazine. The clay in
it dissolves easily and you get quite good transfer.

Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
Email: aqzf13@...
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller

>
> Try using shiny paper, like ink jet paper, or from a magazine. The clay
> in
> it dissolves easily and you get quite good transfer.
>
> Leon
> --
> Leon Heller, G1HSM
> Email: aqzf13@...
> http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller
>

> Being new to this, I am trying to make a toner transfer board. I have
> made one very simple postage stamp sized board and it worked OK. I am
> now trying to do a slightly more complex board (in a crawl-walk-run
> kinda thing) and am having a lot less luck. I have tried to transfer a
> couple of times and decided it wouldn't work right.
>
> I am printing on my regular 20lb 84 brightness Georgia
> Pacific "Copier Paper" $3 from walmart, and it leaves a lot
> of "hairs" on the toner. If I am aggressive enough to get these off, I
> also pull the toner off the board.
>
> How hard should I try to get these off? My first thought was they too
> will act as resist and I need to get them all off, is this true?
> Becaused my second thought was that they'll absorb the etchant (FeCl)
> and etch anyway albeit a bit slower.
>
> Is there any better paper out there that won't cost a fortune, I have
> seen the press'n'peel stuff and at $2 a sheet it's a bit costly if
> it's one shot. I have a small budget but I can afford to use a bit of
> time on the process.
>
> As an off topic question (and please if you reply to this reply
> personally) does anyone have any experience using the Zilog Z80 as a
> micro controller?
>
>
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>
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>
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>

>Being new to this, I am trying to make a toner transfer board. I have
>made one very simple postage stamp sized board and it worked OK. I am
>now trying to do a slightly more complex board (in a crawl-walk-run
>kinda thing) and am having a lot less luck. I have tried to transfer
>a couple of times and decided it wouldn't work right.
>
>I am printing on my regular 20lb 84 brightness Georgia
>Pacific "Copier Paper" $3 from walmart, and it leaves a lot
>of "hairs" on the toner. If I am aggressive enough to get these off,
>I also pull the toner off the board.
>
>How hard should I try to get these off? My first thought was they too
>will act as resist and I need to get them all off, is this true?
>Becaused my second thought was that they'll absorb the etchant (FeCl)
>and etch anyway albeit a bit slower.
>
>Is there any better paper out there that won't cost a fortune, I have
>seen the press'n'peel stuff and at $2 a sheet it's a bit costly if
>it's one shot. I have a small budget but I can afford to use a bit of
>time on the process.
>
>As an off topic question (and please if you reply to this reply
>personally) does anyone have any experience using the Zilog Z80 as a
>micro controller?
>
>
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob & Linda Gardner" <gardner.bob@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Toner Transfer questions...


> Hi Anthony,
>
> I'm about the same place you are, learning to make PCBs using the
> toner transfer method. I went to a local chain of paper stores
> called The Paper Zone and got samples of numerous types and weights
> of clay coated paper and ran numerous trials. I have settled on the
> gloss coated 80# paper shown in the link below:
>
> http://www.paperzonestore.com/cgi-bin/paperzon/WEGW1180.html
>
>>
>
>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stefan Trethan [mailto:stefan_trethan@...]
> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 12:25 PM
> To: homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Toner Transfer questions...
>
>
> On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 17:03:23 -0000, Leon Heller
> <leon_heller@...>
> wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Try using shiny paper, like ink jet paper, or from a magazine. The
> > clay
> > in
> > it dissolves easily and you get quite good transfer.
> >
> > Leon
> > --
> > Leon Heller, G1HSM
> > Email: aqzf13@... http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller
> >
>
> that's right.
> I too had no luck with plain copier paper.
> The toner sticks way too good.
> also the flat surface of the inkjet paper makes a more even
> toner layer and it sticks better to the copper when ironing.
> put a lot emphasis on cleaning the pcb. i think the slightly
> ruogh surface sandpaper leaves behind is good for
> bonding.
>
>
> In the end this toner transfer is not only good for making
> pcbs. i used it as the topic for a speech today. It was in a
> kind of workshop for improving presentation techniques so the
> topic was
> free to choose.
>
> @wheedal i did show two of your pictures (the peeling and the
> one with the
> toner on the copper.)
> hope you don't sue me for violating your copyright.. ;-)
> thanks for making
> them.
>
> st
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits
> for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com.
> Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.

> Yes ,I'm using the laminator
> I have had 100% results since starting to use it.
> regards
> victor
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob & Linda Gardner" <gardner.bob@...>
> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 1:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Toner Transfer questions...
>
>
> > Hi Anthony,
> >
> > I'm about the same place you are, learning to make PCBs using the
> > toner transfer method. I went to a local chain of paper stores
> > called The Paper Zone and got samples of numerous types and weights
> > of clay coated paper and ran numerous trials. I have settled on the
> > gloss coated 80# paper shown in the link below:
> >
> > http://www.paperzonestore.com/cgi-bin/paperzon/WEGW1180.html
> >
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your
> HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders
> $50 or more to the US & Canada.
> http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/bGYolB/TM
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------~
> ->
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

> Thanks for all the replies!
>
> What a difference the paper makes, I got the Hammermill "Multi-Project
> Photo Paper" from Walmart, it was about $6.50 for 20 sheets. The
> transfer process is like wet transfer, like the temporary tattoo things.
> I am stunned by how the printed on surface was sort of slippery when it
> got wet, and then it just slipped off, leaving the toner behind.
>
> Excellent results, thanks for the help!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob & Linda Gardner" <gardner.bob@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 4:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Toner Transfer questions...


> Thanks for the reply, Victor. Are you using it with toner transfer
> paper or with regular glossy paper? Do you get your good results
> with just one pass through the laminator or do you have to make more
> than one pass?
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Bob
>
> > Yes ,I'm using the laminator
> > I have had 100% results since starting to use it.
> > regards
> > victor
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bob & Linda Gardner" <gardner.bob@...>
> > To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 1:21 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Toner Transfer questions...
> >
> >
> > > Hi Anthony,
> > >
> > > I'm about the same place you are, learning to make PCBs using the
> > > toner transfer method. I went to a local chain of paper stores
> > > called The Paper Zone and got samples of numerous types and weights
> > > of clay coated paper and ran numerous trials. I have settled on the
> > > gloss coated 80# paper shown in the link below:
> > >
> > > http://www.paperzonestore.com/cgi-bin/paperzon/WEGW1180.html
> > >
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your
> > HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders
> > $50 or more to the US & Canada.
> > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/bGYolB/TM
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~
> > ->
> >
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

> ... I'm thinking that my next purchase may be a
> laminator. I'm using an iron currently but find this to be not as
> consistent as I would like. I liked the note from a user recently
> who was using a Royal Sovereign laminator and would like to hear from
> more users with their laminator experiences. Is anyone using the
> laminator which Pulsar sells specifically for PCB transfer?

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony Toft" <toftat@c...> wrote:
> Thanks for all the replies!
>
> What a difference the paper makes, I got the Hammermill "Multi-Project
> Photo Paper" from Walmart, it was about $6.50 for 20 sheets. The
> transfer process is like wet transfer, like the temporary tattoo things.
> I am stunned by how the printed on surface was sort of slippery when it
> got wet, and then it just slipped off, leaving the toner behind.
>
> Excellent results, thanks for the help!
>

> paper or with regular glossy paper? Do you get your good results
> with just one pass through the laminator or do you have to make

> than one pass?

>
> Hi all, I know this answer comes a little bit late, but I

> anyone mention it and I have been getting very good results with

> using Time magazine paper with a laminator. It works PERFECT, I

> traces from 3.3 mils wide with 5 mils clearance for small boards,

> tried using such tigh specs for big boards(for which I usually use

> traces and 8 mils clearance). I have tried many papers and this

> best by far and pretty easy to get. Just one thing is not to feed

> directly to the printer since it will most probably get stuck,

> hold it on a normal paper with some tape and insert the whole

> printer.
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: Anthony [mailto:toftat@c...]
> Enviado el: viernes, 28 de noviembre de 2003 17:51
> Para: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Asunto: [Homebrew_PCBs] Toner Transfer questions...
>
>
> Being new to this, I am trying to make a toner transfer board. I

> made one very simple postage stamp sized board and it worked OK.

> now trying to do a slightly more complex board (in a crawl-walk-

> kinda thing) and am having a lot less luck. I have tried to

> a couple of times and decided it wouldn't work right.
>
> I am printing on my regular 20lb 84 brightness Georgia
> Pacific "Copier Paper" $3 from walmart, and it leaves a lot
> of "hairs" on the toner. If I am aggressive enough to get these

> I also pull the toner off the board.
>
> How hard should I try to get these off? My first thought was

> will act as resist and I need to get them all off, is this true?
> Becaused my second thought was that they'll absorb the etchant

> and etch anyway albeit a bit slower.
>
> Is there any better paper out there that won't cost a fortune, I

> seen the press'n'peel stuff and at $2 a sheet it's a bit costly

> it's one shot. I have a small budget but I can afford to use a

> time on the process.
>
> As an off topic question (and please if you reply to this reply
> personally) does anyone have any experience using the Zilog Z80

> micro controller?
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of

>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> traces from 3.3 mils wide with 5 mils clearance for small boards, I

> tried using such tigh specs for big boards(for which I usually use

> traces and 8 mils clearance). I have tried many papers and this one

> best by far and pretty easy to get. Just one thing is not to feed it
> directly to the printer since it will most probably get stuck,

> hold it on a normal paper with some tape and insert the whole stuff

> printer.

> Hi all, I know this answer comes a little bit late, but I haven't seen
> anyone mention it and I have been getting very good results with it. I am
> using Time magazine paper with a laminator. It works PERFECT, I can do
> traces from 3.3 mils wide with 5 mils clearance for small boards, I havent
> tried using such tigh specs for big boards(for which I usually use 8mils
> traces and 8 mils clearance). I have tried many papers and this one is the
> best by far and pretty easy to get. Just one thing is not to feed it
> directly to the printer since it will most probably get stuck, instead i
> hold it on a normal paper with some tape and insert the whole stuff to the
> printer.

>> best by far and pretty easy to get. Just one thing is not to feed it
>> directly to the printer since it will most probably get stuck, instead i
>> hold it on a normal paper with some tape and insert the whole stuff to
>> the
>> printer.
>
> Plastic tape against heated rollers is a bad idea is it not?
>
>

> >> best by far and pretty easy to get. Just one thing is not to

> >> directly to the printer since it will most probably get stuck,

> >> hold it on a normal paper with some tape and insert the whole

> >> the
> >> printer.
> >
> > Plastic tape against heated rollers is a bad idea is it not?
> >
> >
>
> using paper masking tape is a much better idea, you are right.

> On Fri, 05 Dec 20

> > Plastic tape against heated rollers is a bad idea is it not?
> >
>
> using paper masking tape is a much better idea, you are right.

>
> They do produce stickers just for this type of thing. I had a bunch of
> these from a foil transfer kit. I believe they were just regular labels,
> the backing was a 3M glue. The idea is to not use anything that might
> melt as Russell suggested or an adhesive that might ooze when heated and
> contaminate the photoconductor unit.
>
> I did cut down stock taped it to paper carriers when I used the expensive
> dynaart papers; but with magazine stock there's little point. At least
> on my 5L transport, whole pages aren't a problem. YMMV.
>
>

> I used printable labels before too, works fine.