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2014-02-16 by James Sleeman
Stumbled across these couple of videos about making through hole activator for electroplating. Looks like nice results. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3GY-j4Gh0E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rME-XGCcCo
2014-02-18 by <cs6061@...>
2014-02-18 by James
On 18/02/14 17:14, cs6061@... wrote: > > This process has been posted before and unfortunately the critical > ingredient of calcium hypophosphite is on the DEA's List I of > controlled substances > Bugger. Yes it seems that the calcium hypophosphite is used to make copper hypophosphite as the active ingredient, so no real way around it. It did get me thinking though about copper sulphate, and if maybe the simple ascorbic acid precipitation of copper from it could be used to make a copper based ink which would be thin enough to flow through holes and thick enough to just stick enough to the sides, then bake it off. This video is about making a gum arabic carried copper ink by that method... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iyRUBvd260 FWIW, the instructable with regards to the calcium hypophosphite is here http://www.instructables.com/id/Inexpensive-method-of-industrial-level-quality-PCB/step1/Preparing-activator-solution/ And I see using Copper Hypophosphite for activation has also been discussed on DP http://dangerousprototypes.com/2013/05/15/low-cost-pcb-through-hole-plating/
2014-02-18 by <cs6061@...>
2014-02-20 by Mark Lerman
This process has been posted before and unfortunately the critical ingredient of calcium hypophosphite is on the DEA's List I of controlled substances used to make illegal drugs and is near impossible to get in the US.
Craig
2014-02-20 by Cecil Bayona
It would be curious to see if someone in the US buys it and it's not confiscated. Technically you would be attempting to purchase drug making chemicals a felony, never mind that we would not be using it for that purpose. I just looked at the DEA chemical list, it includes items such as; Iodine including Tincture of Iodine Sulfuric Acid Formic Acid Hydrochloric Acid Magnesium Lithium Sodium Acetone Phosphorus Potassium Permanganate, as a kid I remember that was one of the items in my chemistry kit. This is ridiculous, I'm surprised they didn't include chocolate syrup, it's best to let people buy the more innocuous items and monitor the quantity bought, if they buy a lot then it's time for a visit and possibly arrest the perps. Some of these items can be bought at hardware stores. On a more serious note, one could buy or make something like copper ink, put it in the holes, bake it, then plate the board with either copper or tin. The important thing is that the inside of the whole has a layer of conductor to plate to. At 10:15 AM 2/20/2014, you wrote: > > > >There is 1 listing on ebay from Japan. < >http://www.ebay.com/itm/Calcium-Hypophosphite-Reagent-500g-/331097227365?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d16eec065 > > > >At 11:14 PM 2/17/2014, you wrote: > >>This process has been posted before and unfortunately the critical >>ingredient of calcium hypophosphite is on the DEA's List I of >>controlled substances used to make illegal drugs and is near >>impossible to get in the US. >> >>Craig -- Cecil - k5nwa < http://thepartsplace.k5nwa.com/ > < http://www.softrockradio.org/ > Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
2014-02-20 by chuck richards
This reminds me of something else related to how ridiculous things are getting: Last time I bought a 1 LB bottle of lye at the hardware store, I had to sign my name and give my address and info in their "caustic" book. They explained to me about some silly federal or state (Illinois) mandate that requires all sales of certain chemicals to be documented. I went ballistic on them! I let everyone know that this is starting to feel an awful lot like Nazi Germany all over again! Chuck > > >---- Original Message ---- >From: cbayona@... >To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] RE: diy through hole activator >Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 11:03:36 -0600 > >>It would be curious to see if someone in the US buys it and it's not > >>confiscated. Technically you would be attempting to purchase drug >>making chemicals a felony, never mind that we would not be using it >>for that purpose. >> >>I just looked at the DEA chemical list, it includes items such as; >>Iodine including Tincture of Iodine >>Sulfuric Acid >>Formic Acid >>Hydrochloric Acid >>Magnesium >>Lithium >>Sodium >>Acetone >>Phosphorus >>Potassium Permanganate, as a kid I remember that was one of the >items >>in my chemistry kit. >> >>This is ridiculous, I'm surprised they didn't include chocolate >>syrup, it's best to let people buy the more innocuous items and >>monitor the quantity bought, if they buy a lot then it's time for a >>visit and possibly arrest the perps. Some of these items can be >>bought at hardware stores. >> >>On a more serious note, one could buy or make something like copper >>ink, put it in the holes, bake it, then plate the board with either >>copper or tin. The important thing is that the inside of the whole >>has a layer of conductor to plate to. >> >> >>At 10:15 AM 2/20/2014, you wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>There is 1 listing on ebay from Japan. < >>>http://www.ebay.com/itm/Calcium-Hypophosphite-Reagent-500g-/3310972 >27365?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d16eec065 >>> > >>> >>>At 11:14 PM 2/17/2014, you wrote: >>> >>>>This process has been posted before and unfortunately the critical > >>>>ingredient of calcium hypophosphite is on the DEA's List I of >>>>controlled substances used to make illegal drugs and is near >>>>impossible to get in the US. >>>> >>>>Craig >> >>-- >>Cecil - k5nwa >>< http://thepartsplace.k5nwa.com/ > < >http://www.softrockradio.org/ > >> >>Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway. >> >> $4.95/mo. National Dialup, Anti-Spam, Anti-Virus, 5mb personal web space. 5x faster dialup for only $9.95/mo. No contracts, No fees, No Kidding! See http://www.All2Easy.net for more details!
2014-02-20 by <craigl2@...>
According to the law, what you had to do to purchase the lye is all that you would be required to do to purchase calcium hypophosphite if you showed up in person at Sigma Aldrich or some other supplier. Purchasing via mail order would be more difficult unless it was being purchased by a business entity.
Craig
2014-02-20 by cheater00 .
On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 6:18 PM, chuck richards <chuckrr@...> wrote: > > > This reminds me of something else related to how > ridiculous things are getting: > > Last time I bought a 1 LB bottle of lye at the > hardware store, I had to sign my name and give my > address and info in their "caustic" book. "Illegal uses: Lye has been used for removing the ink from of $10 bills (with the intent of reusing the paper for counterfeit $100 bills)." Sounds like a good idea, that is unless you want your economy to break down more than it has. > They explained to me about some silly federal or > state (Illinois) mandate that requires all sales of > certain chemicals to be documented. I went ballistic > on them! I let everyone know that this is starting > to feel an awful lot like Nazi Germany all over again! And what was the poor shopkeeper supposed to do about that? D.
2014-02-21 by <craigl2@...>
According to the law, what you had to do to purchase the lye is all that you would be required to do to purchase calcium hypophosphite if you showed up in person at Sigma Aldrich or some other supplier. Purchasing via mail order would be more difficult unless it was being purchased by a business entity.
Craig
2014-02-21 by <craigl2@...>
Please ignore the double post. The second post was sent 7 hours after the first when it had not yet shown up.
Craig
2014-02-21 by <cs6061@...>
2014-02-21 by ctech
Did you see the price on that ebay listing!
2014-02-22 by ctech
is this it? (Calcium_hypophosphite)
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/553254508/Calcium_hypophosphite_7789_79_9.html
2014-02-22 by <craigl2@...>
In the United States a license or registration is only required to import, export, sell or otherwise redistribute list 1 chemicals. It is not illegal or otherwise prohibited for individuals to buy and have such chemicals for their own personal use and a license or registration is not required. The law does not require a company to sell to an individual however they may do so if you show up in person with a photo ID (required by the law), are buying a small quantity, and are paying by a traceable form of payment (check or credit card not cash or money order). They will not take phone orders or mail orders from individuals and will not ship to individuals. They will take phone orders or mail orders and ship to a verifiable business, i.e. one that can be verified to exist through public sources - the phone book, Better Business Bureau, Chamber of Commerce. etc.. Although to my knowledge it is not required by law but they generally require that the business has been in existence for at least six months.
Craig
2014-02-22 by ctech
In the United States a license or registration is only required to import, export, sell or otherwise redistribute list 1 chemicals. It is not illegal or otherwise prohibited for individuals to buy and have such chemicals for their own personal use and a license or registration is not required. The law does not require a company to sell to an individual however they may do so if you show up in person with a photo ID (required by the law), are buying a small quantity, and are paying by a traceable form of payment (check or credit card not cash or money order). They will not take phone orders or mail orders from individuals and will not ship to individuals. They will take phone orders or mail orders and ship to a verifiable business, i.e. one that can be verified to exist through public sources - the phone book, Better Business Bureau, Chamber of Commerce. etc.. Although to my knowledge it is not required by law but they generally require that the business has been in existence for at least six months.
Craig
---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, wrote:It sounds to me that we should investigate how to obtain a license for use of that chemical. I already started the process at my location in NIcaragua and will post an update once I hear back from the authorities.
2014-02-23 by <craigl2@...>
I am not a lawyer, If you wish to read the law for yourself do a Google search for "title 21 1310". My understanding is that is is not prohibited to sell to individual by mail but that companies choose not to because of the difficulty in verifying identification and how easy it can be to falsify ID, as anyone who has been a victim of credit card fraud or identity theft can attest to. I may be misinformed and possibly they may be willing to sell via mail order with adequate verification of ID.
I mention that they will sell to a verifiable business not to suggest that you get someone you know who owns a business to order some on your behalf since that would be violating the letter of the law by redistributing it without being registered to do so. And, likely some tiny minded bureaucrat would make a federal case (literally) out of it if it came to light. However some people may already have their own business. Or if you were intent enough in getting some you could start your own business - which might have other benefits as well.
Craig
2014-02-24 by cheater00 .
None of that matters in America, where you can get raided by the DEA and have your laboratory demolished in the process if one of your idiot neighbours notices "unusual equipment" at your premises. D.
On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 8:53 AM, <craigl2@...> wrote: > > > I am not a lawyer, If you wish to read the law for yourself do a Google > search for "title 21 1310". My understanding is that is is not prohibited to > sell to individual by mail but that companies choose not to because of the > difficulty in verifying identification and how easy it can be to falsify ID, > as anyone who has been a victim of credit card fraud or identity theft can > attest to. I may be misinformed and possibly they may be willing to sell via > mail order with adequate verification of ID. > > > I mention that they will sell to a verifiable business not to suggest that > you get someone you know who owns a business to order some on your behalf > since that would be violating the letter of the law by redistributing it > without being registered to do so. And, likely some tiny minded bureaucrat > would make a federal case (literally) out of it if it came to light. However > some people may already have their own business. Or if you were intent > enough in getting some you could start your own business - which might have > other benefits as well. > > > Craig > > > > ---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <ctech4285@...> wrote: > > Thank you that was very informative, > Could you clarify " The law does not require a company to sell to an > individual however they may do so if you show up in person with a photo > ID..." > Are they prohibited from selling mail order to individuals? > I assume the seller would take some risk if he does not properly verify the > identity of there customers but that should be possible with mail order as > well > > regards > Andreas > > >
2014-02-24 by Fernando Cassia
None of that matters in America, where you can get raided by the DEA
and have your laboratory demolished in the process if one of your
idiot neighbours notices "unusual equipment" at your premises.
2014-02-24 by Fernando Cassia
None of that matters in America, where you can get raided by the DEA
and have your laboratory demolished in the process if one of your
idiot neighbours notices "unusual equipment" at your premises.
2014-02-24 by Cecil Bayona
About a block from where I used to live there was a house that was a meth lab, the property was condemned, but a few month later the signs disappeared and the house was for sale. I kept an eye on the property as I walked my dog past the place, and no cleanup was done. Later when I saw some people were looking at the house I warned them about what had happened before, they acted like I was crazy and bought the place because is was being sold for next to nothing. Later when they moved in I saw that they had two small kids, sad really. At 11:07 PM 2/23/2014, you wrote: > > > >On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 1:35 AM, cheater00 . ><<mailto:cheater00@...>cheater00@...> wrote: > >None of that matters in America, where you can get raided by the DEA >and have your laboratory demolished in the process if one of your >idiot neighbours notices "unusual equipment" at your premises. > >At least they're addressing the clean-up now... ><http://www.shreveporttimes.com/article/CB/20131214/NEWS01/101280012/Buyers-renters-left-dark-former-meth-making-their-new-home?nclick_check=1>http://www.shreveporttimes.com/article/CB/20131214/NEWS01/101280012/Buyers-renters-left-dark-former-meth-making-their-new-home?nclick_check=1 > >FC >-- >During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a >revolutionary act >- George Orwell -- Cecil - k5nwa < http://thepartsplace.k5nwa.com/ > < http://www.softrockradio.org/ > Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
2014-02-24 by cheater00 .
On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 6:03 AM, Fernando Cassia <fcassia@...> wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 1:35 AM, cheater00 . <cheater00@...> wrote: >> >> None of that matters in America, where you can get raided by the DEA >> and have your laboratory demolished in the process if one of your >> idiot neighbours notices "unusual equipment" at your premises. > > Any verifiable, published stats about demolished legit labs, or is this some govt bashing exercise? > > FC People I know running legit home labs out of hobby interest in chemistry and physics have had this done to them. Since then they are absolutely anal about keeping documentation for even the most mundane stuff, such as drain cleaner. Others had seen similar things and have warned me about the issue and also stress the importance of keeping an easily accessible documentation and a clean, 200% legit shop. Really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone in a country that expects you to deliver a pornographic photo in order to board a method of commotion. (THAT was govt bashing) D.
2014-02-24 by cheater00 .
On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 6:23 AM, Cecil Bayona <cbayona@...> wrote: > > About a block from where I used to live there was a house that was a > meth lab, the property was condemned, but a few month later the signs > disappeared and the house was for sale. > > I kept an eye on the property as I walked my dog past the place, and > no cleanup was done. Later when I saw some people were looking at the > house I warned them about what had happened before, they acted like I > was crazy and bought the place because is was being sold for next to > nothing. Later when they moved in I saw that they had two small kids, > sad really. Guy living next door to me bought his flat really cheap. There was a drug house there and when he moved in there was blood splattered all over the walls. Those properties are really cheap, and to be serious, once you scrape off 2mm or more of drywall, ceiling, and floor how is what's left behind any different to what you'd get otherwise? It does take a strong mind to take something like that and turn it from nightmare on elm street into something of your own which you can own and trust. But perhaps refurbishing and re-selling is a good option, depending on how much disclosure you're required to give to interested parties. D.
2014-02-24 by <cs6061@...>