Homebrew PCBs

Hi I make ny own PCB boards, but when I need more than one or two or want a professional look I sometimes order boards from a professionla producer.

I have used H-instruments, they offer 5 boards max size 50x50mm( 1.95"*1.95")

for only 37.95$ with free shipping.

www.h-instruments.com

So, everyone, how do we feel about people who pretend to be customers of their own business?

Steve Greenfield AE7HD

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <h_instruments@...> wrote:

>
> Hi I make ny own PCB boards, but when I need more than one or two or want a professional look I sometimes order boards from a professionla producer.
>  I have used H-instruments, they offer 5 boards max size 50x50mm( 1.95"*1.95")
>  for only 37.95$ with free shipping.
>  www.h-instruments.com http://www.h-instruments.com
>

I agree,

They can obviously not be trusted.

Bertho

From:  Jim    Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 09:14
To: Homebre

  

Ban them.  It's a question of personal and professional ethics.

73
Jim N6OTQ

 

 


  _____  


From: AlienRelics <alienrelics@...>
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 8:04 AM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Cheap prototype boards


So, everyone, how do we feel about people who pretend to be customers of
their own business?

Steve Greenfield AE7HD

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <h_instruments@...> wrote:
>
> Hi I make ny own PCB boards, but when I need more than one or two or want
a professional look I sometimes order boards from a professionla producer.
>  I have used H-instruments, they offer 5 boards max size 50x50mm(
1.95"*1.95")
>  for only 37.95$ with free shipping.
>  www.h-instruments.com http://www.h-instruments

Hamilton, 

It's possible if you sent this through an smtp relay that doesn't authenticate the sender. 

But not this one, why?  Yahoo will reject your email if you are not authenticated properly, and you can't post to a group by sending it through a third party mail relay. You have to send this through your yahoo mail through your browser, or a valid yahoo mail relay (where you have to be authenticated), or by directly posting to the group for it to be delivered successfully. 

The fact that this email got delivered, the sender has been authenticated successfully.

Ban this guy!

Thanks.




On Wednesday, November 13, 2013 10:58 AM, Boman33 <boman33@...> wrote:
 
  
I agree,
They can obviously not be trusted.
Bertho
 
From: Jim    Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 09:14
To: Homebre
  
Ban them.  It's a question of personal and professional ethics.

73
Jim N6OTQ

>________________________________
>
>From:AlienRelics <alienrelics@...>
>To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
>Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 8:04 AM
>Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Cheap prototype boards
>
>So, everyone, how do we feel about people who pretend to be customers of their own business?
>
>Steve Greenfield AE7HD
>
>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <h_instruments@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hi I make ny own PCB boards, but when I need more than one or two or want a professional look I sometimes order boards from a professionla producer.
>>  I have used H-instruments, they offer 5 boards max size 50x50mm( 1.95"*1.95")
>>  for only 37.95$ with free shipping.
>>  www.h-instruments.com http://www.h-instruments

Ban them. It's a question of personal and professional ethics.

73
Jim N6OTQ

I thought I saw a similar post a year ago... guess what... he's been promoting this since 2011, he probably didn't realize that he is using that same  yahoo email address on their site and thinking it is completely invisible to the members in this group. See below, it was the same guy. There's no reason to keep him here.

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Homebrew_PCBs/conversations/messages/28916






On Wednesday, November 13, 2013 12:42 PM, Monty <pinoy_nyc@...> wrote:
 
  
Hamilton, 

It's possible if you sent this through an smtp relay that doesn't authenticate the sender. 

But not this one, why?  Yahoo will reject your email if you are not authenticated properly, and you can't post to a group by sending it through a third party mail relay. You have to send this through your yahoo mail through your browser, or a valid yahoo mail relay (where you have to be authenticated), or by directly posting to the group for it to be delivered successfully. 

The fact that this email got delivered, the sender has been authenticated successfully.

Ban this guy!

Thanks.




On Wednesday, November 13, 2013 10:58 AM, Boman33 <boman33@...> wrote:
 
  
I agree,
They can obviously not be trusted.
Bertho
 
From: Jim    Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 09:14
To: Homebre
  
Ban them.  It's a question of personal and professional ethics.

73
Jim N6OTQ

>________________________________
>
>From:AlienRelics <alienrelics@...>
>To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
>Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 8:04 AM
>Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Cheap prototype boards
>
>So, everyone, how do we feel about people who pretend to be customers of their own business?
>
>Steve Greenfield AE7HD
>
>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <h_instruments@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hi I make ny own PCB boards, but when I need more than one or two or want a professional look I sometimes order boards from a professionla producer.
>>  I have used H-instruments, they offer 5 boards max size 50x50mm( 1.95"*1.95")
>>  for only 37.95$ with free shipping.
>>  www.h-instruments.com http://www.h-instruments

On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 12:45 AM, <h_instruments@...> wrote:
>
> Hi I make ny own PCB boards, but when I need more than one or two or want a professional look I sometimes order boards from a professionla producer.
>
> I have used H-instruments

You've used yourself?

> they offer 5 boards max size 50x50mm( 1.95"*1.95")
>
> for only 37.95$ with free shipping.

Bit pricey!

I can ship 10 boards of 5x5cm for USD19.  Several people on this
mailing list have used my services.

  http://tinyurl.com/hvpcbfaq

And you can come talk to me and dozens of my customers:

  http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=hackvana

(I'm still waiting for someone to write me a nice guide for gEDA)

Mitch.

> Mitch wrote:

> <SNIP>

> (I'm still waiting for someone to write me

> a nice guide for gEDA)

Mitch - you don't seem very gEDA friendly with the

<quote> If you use gEDA, God help us all.</quote>

bit :)

It was actually pretty trivial. I just wrote me a

batch file on the windows machine (where my

email is)

@echo off
rename %1.topsilk.gbr %1.frontsilk.gto
rename %1.topmask.gbr %1.frontmask.gts
rename %1.top.gbr %1.front.gtl
rename %1.outline.gbr %1.outline.gbr
rename %1.bottomsilk.gbr %1.backsilk.gbo
rename %1.bottommask.gbr %1.backmask.gbs
rename %1.bottom.gbr %1.back.gbl
rename %1.plated-drill.cnc %1.plated-drill.dri

Hello andrewm1973 (who is one of my customers),

On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 2:02 PM, <andrewm1973@...> wrote:
>
> It was actually pretty trivial.  I just wrote me a
> batch file on the windows machine (where my
> email is)
>
> @echo off
> rename %1.topsilk.gbr %1.frontsilk.gto
> rename %1.topmask.gbr %1.frontmask.gts
> rename %1.top.gbr %1.front.gtl
> rename %1.outline.gbr %1.outline.gbr
> rename %1.bottomsilk.gbr %1.backsilk.gbo
> rename %1.bottommask.gbr %1.backmask.gbs
> rename %1.bottom.gbr %1.back.gbl
> rename %1.plated-drill.cnc %1.plated-drill.dri

If you put that in a blog page (or Google Doc) and you're prepared to
update it from time to time, then I'll happily link to it.

Mitch.

Mitch Davis <mjd@...> writes:
> (I'm still waiting for someone to write me a nice guide for gEDA)

The folks at OSHPark worked with me to build a local batch-mode PCB
(it's a default configure option) so they can accept *.pcb files
directly, they convert them to gerbers locally.  It's one way of
avoiding the whole naming problem in the first place.

But really, anyone who uses gEDA can probably figure out how to rename
some files, if you give more guidance than "Here is an example:"
(although they can probably figure it out from that too ;)

> If you use gEDA, God help us all.

You'd probably get more customers if you don't insult their tools, too.

On 14/11/2013 07:12, DJ Delorie wrote:
> Mitch Davis <mjd@...> writes:
>> If you use gEDA, God help us all.
> You'd probably get more customers if you don't insult their tools, too.
>
>
I don't really understand this hate on a tool (or those who use it), 
I've found gEDA very useful and without it I wouldn't have been able to 
produce half of the boards I have done. Sure, you have to invest more 
learning time than some of the commercial tools, but investing that time 
has its benefits (understanding the PCB file format which is plain text 
lends itself very handily to scripting certain processes). I really 
appreciate a tool that allows me - a hobbyist - to create 4 and 6 layer 
boards without costing multiple thousands which I can ill afford and at 
the same time having documented and open file formats.

On Thu, 14 Nov 2013, Dylan Smith wrote:

> On 14/11/2013 07:12, DJ Delorie wrote:
>> Mitch Davis <mjd@...> writes:
>>> If you use gEDA, God help us all.
>> You'd probably get more customers if you don't insult their tools, too.
>>
> I don't really understand this hate on a tool (or those who use it),
> I've found gEDA very useful and without it I wouldn't have been able to
> produce half of the boards I have done. Sure, you have to invest more
> learning time than some of the commercial tools, but investing that time
> has its benefits (understanding the PCB file format which is plain text
> lends itself very handily to scripting certain processes). I really
> appreciate a tool that allows me - a hobbyist - to create 4 and 6 layer
> boards without costing multiple thousands which I can ill afford and at
> the same time having documented and open file formats.

I appreciate the efforts of the gEDA people, but I've begun to drift away 
from it.  What the project really needs is to work toward some sort of 
self-consistent standard for footprints and symbols.  Then have a major 
release and jettison the myriads of old formats.

-- 
David Griffith
dgriffi@...

On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 6:12 PM, DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:
>
> You'd probably get more customers if you don't insult their tools, too.

Fair point.  I've removed it just because removing it was the right
thing to do.  Our free software tools only exist because dedicated
people have spent thousands of hours of their time, and I'm certainly
grateful.

On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 9:12 PM, David Griffith <dgriffi@...> wrote:
>
> I appreciate the efforts of the gEDA people, but I've begun to drift away
> from it.  What the project really needs is to work toward some sort of
> self-consistent standard for footprints and symbols.  Then have a major
> release and jettison the myriads of old formats.

This is something KiCad is struggling with too.  There are several
ongoing attempts to give KiCad the ability to source footprints and
symbols from the net (eg, git repos), and several attempts to set up
good central repositories of parts.  Nothing has reached critical mass
yet, although there's hope.

Mitch.

I haven't seen this mentioned in here before? Apologies if it has been 
and I missed it.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cartesianco/the-ex1-rapid-3d-printing-of-circuit-boards

I wonder how much one will cost?

Regards

Paul

> I wonder how much one will cost?
>
> Regards
>
> Paul

Like most snake oil it will cost as much as

suckers are willing to pay.

$1500 too expensive by the moment. But a great idea. I will wait until it drops the price.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <andrewm1973@...> wrote:
>
> 
> > I wonder how much one will cost?
>  > 
> > Regards
>  >
> > Paul
>  
> 
>  Like most snake oil it will cost as much as 
>  suckers are willing to pay.
>

For everyone:
First, please PLEASE don't start a new thread by responding to an existing thread. No matter that you delete the subject line and previous messages, Yahoogroups still links it.

Secondly, Andrew, can you be more specific?

Steve Greenfield AE7HD

>> andrewm wrote:

>> Like most snake oil it will cost as much as
>> suckers are willing to pay.

> Steve wrote:
> Secondly, Andrew, can you be more specific?

It is a method that has been around for a long

time (Silver Nitrate and Absorbic Acid).

Mostly everyone else gives up on it when they

hit its limitations.

The deposited silver has very high resistance.

We are not talking about the resistance diff

between copper and silver here. The individual

particles of silver have "contact" resistance

between each other. It is orders of magnitude

higher resistance than copper.

You can not do ANY circuit that carry a

reasonable amount of power.

The print resolution is actually below what you

can do with TTS and not even on the same

page as photo techniques. They can manage

an SO package. They can't do a TSSOP let

alone a 0.5mm DFN or less.

It's only marginally solderable.

If they where marketing it as "A novel toy

to experiment with and one day this

technique may give useful results" I would

not call it out as snake oil.

It's the fact that they are marketing it as a

turn key solution to all your problems with

PCB making. When in actual fact there

are not problems with peoples home PCB

making techniques.

These things are going to end up as 1K5

paperweights that rob people of hours of

their life in attempt to get useful results.

> ST wrote:

> <snip>

> is direct conductor deposition really a

> dead end? I'm not so sure..

Maybe direct conductor deposition has

a future. It's not with silver nitrate and

vitamin C though. Its been tried many

times before and given up on.

There are people already doing deposition

of much more conductive things than

those grey looking silver traces those

guys are doing.

More info here 
<http://www.pddnet.com/articles/2013/11/printing-silver-circuit-boards-multiple-materials?et_cid=3606889&et_rid=280923539&location=top>. 
Seems they use an HP cartridge and can do 1.27 mm traces. Not very 
good. They also imply multiple passes so "You can lay down as much 
silver as you want for your application".