Homebrew_PCBs

---In homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com, <rjshaw@...> wrote:

On 02/11/13 08:53, beefyzee@... wrote:

>
>
> Well my head is spinning in my quest for finding the ultimate print method for
> getting a solid opaque print for the UV method of making PCBs.
>
> The more I read the more it seems inkjets annihilate laser printers in this
> regard. So far it seems Epson Stylus inkjets with Epson transparency and
> original DYE based ink produce good results, when printing in best photo quality
> mode.
>
> I would like to gain an in depth understanding of how all the different choices
> in my Epson printer software affect the print output (resolution, ink useage,
> print speed, etc). For example there's print quality choices, lots of paper
> choices, high speed mode, etc, but neither the printer manual, the help file, or
> Google / Youtube searching can give explanations of all this.
>
> I know some are using lasers, tracing paper, doubling or tripling the positives
> on top of each other, etc, but for reasons based on my research I'm wanting to
> get away from those "workarounds" and get a solid opaque print on
> transparencies. The screen printing industry seems to use primarilly inkjet
> printers, and there's even special ultra black opaque inks available for these guys.
>
> So my finishing question is does anyone know of any detail guides on all the
> settings in Epson inkjet printers.

I'm still using an Epson Stylus 400 (10+ years old) with cheap refill dye ink
because the genuine cartridges are discontinued.

After upgrading the PC (debian linux), i couldn't get all the unexposed resist
to develop off the pcb.

After testing the UV blocking of the ink with a UV light meter, i found the
black ink is only blocking two-thirds of the light.

The printer used to put out bucket loads of ink on to the gelatine transparency
such that it would pool for a second before soaking in.

Because i've got a detailed user manual, developer manual, and source code to
the printer driver (gutenprint), i'll figure out how to get more ink out.

http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/p_Documentation.php

---In homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com, <beefyzee@...> wrote:

Thanks for the input lads.

 

I've also seen these opaque inks on Ebay (cheap too) that supposedly will work with nearly all inkjet printers. I'm afraid I paid too much for my Epson TX810FW  to use it as a guinea pig for one of these "universal" inks.

 

My printer isn't supported yet by that Gutenprint (dratt) so that's out for now.

 

A guy did some tests with various inkjet printers and reckons the Epson Stylus ones with original dye based ink came out best. He took microscopic photos of the print to illustrate the solidness of the print. He also said out of the various transparencies he tried, Epson also gave the best results.

 

Pity inkjet transparencies are expensive for quality ones. 3M have some and claim they deliver excellent crisp quality prints, but a pack costs $80+. The Epson transparencies are about the same price.

 

It's amazing how much can be involved in just getting a good positive film.

---In homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com, <rjshaw@...> wrote:

On 02/11/13 08:53, beefyzee@... wrote:

>
>
> Well my head is spinning in my quest for finding the ultimate print method for
> getting a solid opaque print for the UV method of making PCBs.
>
> The more I read the more it seems inkjets annihilate laser printers in this
> regard. So far it seems Epson Stylus inkjets with Epson transparency and
> original DYE based ink produce good results, when printing in best photo quality
> mode.
>
> I would like to gain an in depth understanding of how all the different choices
> in my Epson printer software affect the print output (resolution, ink useage,
> print speed, etc). For example there's print quality choices, lots of paper
> choices, high speed mode, etc, but neither the printer manual, the help file, or
> Google / Youtube searching can give explanations of all this.
>
> I know some are using lasers, tracing paper, doubling or tripling the positives
> on top of each other, etc, but for reasons based on my research I'm wanting to
> get away from those "workarounds" and get a solid opaque print on
> transparencies. The screen printing industry seems to use primarilly inkjet
> printers, and there's even special ultra black opaque inks available for these guys.
>
> So my finishing question is does anyone know of any detail guides on all the
> settings in Epson inkjet printers.

I'm still using an Epson Stylus 400 (10+ years old) with cheap refill dye ink
because the genuine cartridges are discontinued.

After upgrading the PC (debian linux), i couldn't get all the unexposed resist
to develop off the pcb.

After testing the UV blocking of the ink with a UV light meter, i found the
black ink is only blocking two-thirds of the light.

The printer used to put out bucket loads of ink on to the gelatine transparency
such that it would pool for a second before soaking in.

Because i've got a detailed user manual, developer manual, and source code to
the printer driver (gutenprint), i'll figure out how to get more ink out.

http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/p_Documentation.php

---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Thanks for the input lads.

 

I've also seen these opaque inks on Ebay (cheap too) that supposedly will work with nearly all inkjet printers. I'm afraid I paid too much for my Epson TX810FW  to use it as a guinea pig for one of these "universal" inks.

 

My printer isn't supported yet by that Gutenprint (dratt) so that's out for now.

 

A guy did some tests with various inkjet printers and reckons the Epson Stylus ones with original dye based ink came out best. He took microscopic photos of the print to illustrate the solidness of the print. He also said out of the various transparencies he tried, Epson also gave the best results.

 

Pity inkjet transparencies are expensive for quality ones. 3M have some and claim they deliver excellent crisp quality prints, but a pack costs $80+. The Epson transparencies are about the same price.

 

It's amazing how much can be involved in just getting a good positive film.

---In homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com, <rjshaw@...> wrote:

On 02/11/13 08:53, beefyzee@... wrote:

>
>
> Well my head is spinning in my quest for finding the ultimate print method for
> getting a solid opaque print for the UV method of making PCBs.
>
> The more I read the more it seems inkjets annihilate laser printers in this
> regard. So far it seems Epson Stylus inkjets with Epson transparency and
> original DYE based ink produce good results, when printing in best photo quality
> mode.
>
> I would like to gain an in depth understanding of how all the different choices
> in my Epson printer software affect the print output (resolution, ink useage,
> print speed, etc). For example there's print quality choices, lots of paper
> choices, high speed mode, etc, but neither the printer manual, the help file, or
> Google / Youtube searching can give explanations of all this.
>
> I know some are using lasers, tracing paper, doubling or tripling the positives
> on top of each other, etc, but for reasons based on my research I'm wanting to
> get away from those "workarounds" and get a solid opaque print on
> transparencies. The screen printing industry seems to use primarilly inkjet
> printers, and there's even special ultra black opaque inks available for these guys.
>
> So my finishing question is does anyone know of any detail guides on all the
> settings in Epson inkjet printers.

I'm still using an Epson Stylus 400 (10+ years old) with cheap refill dye ink
because the genuine cartridges are discontinued.

After upgrading the PC (debian linux), i couldn't get all the unexposed resist
to develop off the pcb.

After testing the UV blocking of the ink with a UV light meter, i found the
black ink is only blocking two-thirds of the light.

The printer used to put out bucket loads of ink on to the gelatine transparency
such that it would pool for a second before soaking in.

Because i've got a detailed user manual, developer manual, and source code to
the printer driver (gutenprint), i'll figure out how to get more ink out.

http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/p_Documentation.php

---In homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com, <andrewm1973@...> wrote:

Dye inks can use gelatine coat trannies

Pigment inks need the micro porous ones 

http://advancedscreenprintsupply.com/store/screen_printing_inkjet_film.htm

Cheapest place I found with both types that know what they are.  Ebay sellers when questioned just reply "best quality type sir"

---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Thanks for the input lads.

 

I've also seen these opaque inks on Ebay (cheap too) that supposedly will work with nearly all inkjet printers. I'm afraid I paid too much for my Epson TX810FW  to use it as a guinea pig for one of these "universal" inks.

 

My printer isn't supported yet by that Gutenprint (dratt) so that's out for now.

 

A guy did some tests with various inkjet printers and reckons the Epson Stylus ones with original dye based ink came out best. He took microscopic photos of the print to illustrate the solidness of the print. He also said out of the various transparencies he tried, Epson also gave the best results.

 

Pity inkjet transparencies are expensive for quality ones. 3M have some and claim they deliver excellent crisp quality prints, but a pack costs $80+. The Epson transparencies are about the same price.

 

It's amazing how much can be involved in just getting a good positive film.

---In homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com, <rjshaw@...> wrote:

On 02/11/13 08:53, beefyzee@... wrote:

>
>
> Well my head is spinning in my quest for finding the ultimate print method for
> getting a solid opaque print for the UV method of making PCBs.
>
> The more I read the more it seems inkjets annihilate laser printers in this
> regard. So far it seems Epson Stylus inkjets with Epson transparency and
> original DYE based ink produce good results, when printing in best photo quality
> mode.
>
> I would like to gain an in depth understanding of how all the different choices
> in my Epson printer software affect the print output (resolution, ink useage,
> print speed, etc). For example there's print quality choices, lots of paper
> choices, high speed mode, etc, but neither the printer manual, the help file, or
> Google / Youtube searching can give explanations of all this.
>
> I know some are using lasers, tracing paper, doubling or tripling the positives
> on top of each other, etc, but for reasons based on my research I'm wanting to
> get away from those "workarounds" and get a solid opaque print on
> transparencies. The screen printing industry seems to use primarilly inkjet
> printers, and there's even special ultra black opaque inks available for these guys.
>
> So my finishing question is does anyone know of any detail guides on all the
> settings in Epson inkjet printers.

I'm still using an Epson Stylus 400 (10+ years old) with cheap refill dye ink
because the genuine cartridges are discontinued.

After upgrading the PC (debian linux), i couldn't get all the unexposed resist
to develop off the pcb.

After testing the UV blocking of the ink with a UV light meter, i found the
black ink is only blocking two-thirds of the light.

The printer used to put out bucket loads of ink on to the gelatine transparency
such that it would pool for a second before soaking in.

Because i've got a detailed user manual, developer manual, and source code to
the printer driver (gutenprint), i'll figure out how to get more ink out.

http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/p_Documentation.php

---In homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com, <andrewm1973@...> wrote:

beefy,

Where in OZ are you?

I am going to be ordering some more soon to Brissy

---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Thanks again everyone,

 

that AdvancedScreenPrinting link is great, I wonder if they ship to Australia.

 

Another tip I picked up although not exactly a DIY method and and expensive way per print, is to take your image file to a desktop publisher or or a typesetting service, and ask for a positive film. Supposed to be completely opaque and super high resolution. No idea how much one printout would lighten the pocket by LOL.

---In homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com, <andrewm1973@...> wrote:

Dye inks can use gelatine coat trannies

Pigment inks need the micro porous ones 

http://advancedscreenprintsupply.com/store/screen_printing_inkjet_film.htm

Cheapest place I found with both types that know what they are.  Ebay sellers when questioned just reply "best quality type sir"

---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Thanks for the input lads.

 

I've also seen these opaque inks on Ebay (cheap too) that supposedly will work with nearly all inkjet printers. I'm afraid I paid too much for my Epson TX810FW  to use it as a guinea pig for one of these "universal" inks.

 

My printer isn't supported yet by that Gutenprint (dratt) so that's out for now.

 

A guy did some tests with various inkjet printers and reckons the Epson Stylus ones with original dye based ink came out best. He took microscopic photos of the print to illustrate the solidness of the print. He also said out of the various transparencies he tried, Epson also gave the best results.

 

Pity inkjet transparencies are expensive for quality ones. 3M have some and claim they deliver excellent crisp quality prints, but a pack costs $80+. The Epson transparencies are about the same price.

 

It's amazing how much can be involved in just getting a good positive film.

---In homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com, <rjshaw@...> wrote:

On 02/11/13 08:53, beefyzee@... wrote:

>
>
> Well my head is spinning in my quest for finding the ultimate print method for
> getting a solid opaque print for the UV method of making PCBs.
>
> The more I read the more it seems inkjets annihilate laser printers in this
> regard. So far it seems Epson Stylus inkjets with Epson transparency and
> original DYE based ink produce good results, when printing in best photo quality
> mode.
>
> I would like to gain an in depth understanding of how all the different choices
> in my Epson printer software affect the print output (resolution, ink useage,
> print speed, etc). For example there's print quality choices, lots of paper
> choices, high speed mode, etc, but neither the printer manual, the help file, or
> Google / Youtube searching can give explanations of all this.
>
> I know some are using lasers, tracing paper, doubling or tripling the positives
> on top of each other, etc, but for reasons based on my research I'm wanting to
> get away from those "workarounds" and get a solid opaque print on
> transparencies. The screen printing industry seems to use primarilly inkjet
> printers, and there's even special ultra black opaque inks available for these guys.
>
> So my finishing question is does anyone know of any detail guides on all the
> settings in Epson inkjet printers.

I'm still using an Epson Stylus 400 (10+ years old) with cheap refill dye ink
because the genuine cartridges are discontinued.

After upgrading the PC (debian linux), i couldn't get all the unexposed resist
to develop off the pcb.

After testing the UV blocking of the ink with a UV light meter, i found the
black ink is only blocking two-thirds of the light.

The printer used to put out bucket loads of ink on to the gelatine transparency
such that it would pool for a second before soaking in.

Because i've got a detailed user manual, developer manual, and source code to
the printer driver (gutenprint), i'll figure out how to get more ink out.

http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/p_Documentation.php

---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi Cunningfellow,

 

I'm down in Melbourne as luck would have it. What are you buying.

 

I've just been out to a little business called Kalex Electronics (on Ebay too) to get a bit more Kinsten PCB and also some polyester transparency which is supposed to work well with either laser or inkjet. It's about $1.20 per A4 sheet but I'll be splitting those into 4 peices so that works out to 30c per transparency for all I may be doing at the moment. Still not as cheap as the Advanced Screen Printing ones but he sells in packs of 10 so I paid $12. Hope they work OK.

 

Picked up another tip for a cheap way of using vacuum to get that transparency hard against the board at every little point - Ziplock vacuum food bags. The guy that used them didn't get any folds on top of the transparency. Mind you there's still the issue of what will be used to suck the vacuum LOL. The wife's out at the shops now and I've asked her to grab some for me. I've noticed the higher end UV boxes have a vacuum system to pull the transparency hard against the board, makes mechanical sense. I might try making a manual vacuum pump with some plastic plumbing pipe.

---In homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com, <andrewm1973@...> wrote:

beefy,

Where in OZ are you?

I am going to be ordering some more soon to Brissy

---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Thanks again everyone,

 

that AdvancedScreenPrinting link is great, I wonder if they ship to Australia.

 

Another tip I picked up although not exactly a DIY method and and expensive way per print, is to take your image file to a desktop publisher or or a typesetting service, and ask for a positive film. Supposed to be completely opaque and super high resolution. No idea how much one printout would lighten the pocket by LOL.

---In homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com, <andrewm1973@...> wrote:

Dye inks can use gelatine coat trannies

Pigment inks need the micro porous ones 

http://advancedscreenprintsupply.com/store/screen_printing_inkjet_film.htm

Cheapest place I found with both types that know what they are.  Ebay sellers when questioned just reply "best quality type sir"

---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Thanks for the input lads.

 

I've also seen these opaque inks on Ebay (cheap too) that supposedly will work with nearly all inkjet printers. I'm afraid I paid too much for my Epson TX810FW  to use it as a guinea pig for one of these "universal" inks.

 

My printer isn't supported yet by that Gutenprint (dratt) so that's out for now.

 

A guy did some tests with various inkjet printers and reckons the Epson Stylus ones with original dye based ink came out best. He took microscopic photos of the print to illustrate the solidness of the print. He also said out of the various transparencies he tried, Epson also gave the best results.

 

Pity inkjet transparencies are expensive for quality ones. 3M have some and claim they deliver excellent crisp quality prints, but a pack costs $80+. The Epson transparencies are about the same price.

 

It's amazing how much can be involved in just getting a good positive film.

---In homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com, <rjshaw@...> wrote:

On 02/11/13 08:53, beefyzee@... wrote:

>
>
> Well my head is spinning in my quest for finding the ultimate print method for
> getting a solid opaque print for the UV method of making PCBs.
>
> The more I read the more it seems inkjets annihilate laser printers in this
> regard. So far it seems Epson Stylus inkjets with Epson transparency and
> original DYE based ink produce good results, when printing in best photo quality
> mode.
>
> I would like to gain an in depth understanding of how all the different choices
> in my Epson printer software affect the print output (resolution, ink useage,
> print speed, etc). For example there's print quality choices, lots of paper
> choices, high speed mode, etc, but neither the printer manual, the help file, or
> Google / Youtube searching can give explanations of all this.
>
> I know some are using lasers, tracing paper, doubling or tripling the positives
> on top of each other, etc, but for reasons based on my research I'm wanting to
> get away from those "workarounds" and get a solid opaque print on
> transparencies. The screen printing industry seems to use primarilly inkjet
> printers, and there's even special ultra black opaque inks available for these guys.
>
> So my finishing question is does anyone know of any detail guides on all the
> settings in Epson inkjet printers.

I'm still using an Epson Stylus 400 (10+ years old) with cheap refill dye ink
because the genuine cartridges are discontinued.

After upgrading the PC (debian linux), i couldn't get all the unexposed resist
to develop off the pcb.

After testing the UV blocking of the ink with a UV light meter, i found the
black ink is only blocking two-thirds of the light.

The printer used to put out bucket loads of ink on to the gelatine transparency
such that it would pool for a second before soaking in.

Because i've got a detailed user manual, developer manual, and source code to
the printer driver (gutenprint), i'll figure out how to get more ink out.

http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/p_Documentation.php

---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Beefy,

Just getting a box of 100 of the pigment compatible ones to try in an epson printer.  My canon works fine with the gelatine ones but I want to see how much better epson is.

I have used polyester/vellum in the past and it did not give as good a result as the inkjet films on anything but a giant laser printer.  I have a little laserjet 4000 series printer at home and the inkjet does better than it.

I have one of the kinsten brand "high end" vacuum boxes and find it pretty average.  The illumination is not that even.  The vacuum does work a treat though.

Have bought all the parts to make myself a think-n-tink dsk128 copy but need some time to finish it.

---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi Cunningfellow,

 

I'm down in Melbourne as luck would have it. What are you buying.

 

I've just been out to a little business called Kalex Electronics (on Ebay too) to get a bit more Kinsten PCB and also some polyester transparency which is supposed to work well with either laser or inkjet. It's about $1.20 per A4 sheet but I'll be splitting those into 4 peices so that works out to 30c per transparency for all I may be doing at the moment. Still not as cheap as the Advanced Screen Printing ones but he sells in packs of 10 so I paid $12. Hope they work OK.

 

Picked up another tip for a cheap way of using vacuum to get that transparency hard against the board at every little point - Ziplock vacuum food bags. The guy that used them didn't get any folds on top of the transparency. Mind you there's still the issue of what will be used to suck the vacuum LOL. The wife's out at the shops now and I've asked her to grab some for me. I've noticed the higher end UV boxes have a vacuum system to pull the transparency hard against the board, makes mechanical sense. I might try making a manual vacuum pump with some plastic plumbing pipe.

---In homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com, <andrewm1973@...> wrote:

beefy,

Where in OZ are you?

I am going to be ordering some more soon to Brissy

---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Thanks again everyone,

 

that AdvancedScreenPrinting link is great, I wonder if they ship to Australia.

 

Another tip I picked up although not exactly a DIY method and and expensive way per print, is to take your image file to a desktop publisher or or a typesetting service, and ask for a positive film. Supposed to be completely opaque and super high resolution. No idea how much one printout would lighten the pocket by LOL.

---In homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com, <andrewm1973@...> wrote:

Dye inks can use gelatine coat trannies

Pigment inks need the micro porous ones 

http://advancedscreenprintsupply.com/store/screen_printing_inkjet_film.htm

Cheapest place I found with both types that know what they are.  Ebay sellers when questioned just reply "best quality type sir"

---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Thanks for the input lads.

 

I've also seen these opaque inks on Ebay (cheap too) that supposedly will work with nearly all inkjet printers. I'm afraid I paid too much for my Epson TX810FW  to use it as a guinea pig for one of these "universal" inks.

 

My printer isn't supported yet by that Gutenprint (dratt) so that's out for now.

 

A guy did some tests with various inkjet printers and reckons the Epson Stylus ones with original dye based ink came out best. He took microscopic photos of the print to illustrate the solidness of the print. He also said out of the various transparencies he tried, Epson also gave the best results.

 

Pity inkjet transparencies are expensive for quality ones. 3M have some and claim they deliver excellent crisp quality prints, but a pack costs $80+. The Epson transparencies are about the same price.

 

It's amazing how much can be involved in just getting a good positive film.

---In homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com, <rjshaw@...> wrote:

On 02/11/13 08:53, beefyzee@... wrote:

>
>
> Well my head is spinning in my quest for finding the ultimate print method for
> getting a solid opaque print for the UV method of making PCBs.
>
> The more I read the more it seems inkjets annihilate laser printers in this
> regard. So far it seems Epson Stylus inkjets with Epson transparency and
> original DYE based ink produce good results, when printing in best photo quality
> mode.
>
> I would like to gain an in depth understanding of how all the different choices
> in my Epson printer software affect the print output (resolution, ink useage,
> print speed, etc). For example there's print quality choices, lots of paper
> choices, high speed mode, etc, but neither the printer manual, the help file, or
> Google / Youtube searching can give explanations of all this.
>
> I know some are using lasers, tracing paper, doubling or tripling the positives
> on top of each other, etc, but for reasons based on my research I'm wanting to
> get away from those "workarounds" and get a solid opaque print on
> transparencies. The screen printing industry seems to use primarilly inkjet
> printers, and there's even special ultra black opaque inks available for these guys.
>
> So my finishing question is does anyone know of any detail guides on all the
> settings in Epson inkjet printers.

I'm still using an Epson Stylus 400 (10+ years old) with cheap refill dye ink
because the genuine cartridges are discontinued.

After upgrading the PC (debian linux), i couldn't get all the unexposed resist
to develop off the pcb.

After testing the UV blocking of the ink with a UV light meter, i found the
black ink is only blocking two-thirds of the light.

The printer used to put out bucket loads of ink on to the gelatine transparency
such that it would pool for a second before soaking in.

Because i've got a detailed user manual, developer manual, and source code to
the printer driver (gutenprint), i'll figure out how to get more ink out.

http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/p_Documentation.php

---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 Cunningfellow,

 

Interesting what you said about the uneven light distribution in your UV box. I've just pulled apart a nail varnish curer and am going to put the U-shaped fluoro lamps close to each other in a home made box. I've noticed a lot of UV boxes have the lamps spaced some distance apart and I did wonder if that could give a lack of concentration where the large gaps are.

 

Well I'm having one disaster after another today. The polyester film I've just bought is aboslute crap to put it lightly. It's not transparent but more like white tracing paper, and it soaks the ink like blotting paper. What is doesn't soak up pools on the surface but concentrates in lumps, like water on a waxy surface. I pretty much ended up with one big black smudge, so $12 down the drain apart from the education in what DOESN'T work. It also didnt' give an opaque print, and I could see my fingers through the black. Basic plain paper put it to shame.

 

Next thing I tried was some adhesive transparencies designed for inkjets, and now I find my printer cannot find them and says printer is out of paper, even though it feeds the transparency all the way through. Googled the matter and someone else with an Epson printer had the same issue. His even had a simple answer of "no" on the Epson website to the question, "Can it print on transparencies ?".

 

By the way I have no idea what a "think-n-tink dsk128 copy" is LOL.

 

I'll try taping some white paper to the transparency to trick the printer. May the Gods have some mercy on me.

 

---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Beefy,

Just getting a box of 100 of the pigment compatible ones to try in an epson printer.  My canon works fine with the gelatine ones but I want to see how much better epson is.

I have used polyester/vellum in the past and it did not give as good a result as the inkjet films on anything but a giant laser printer.  I have a little laserjet 4000 series printer at home and the inkjet does better than it.

I have one of the kinsten brand "high end" vacuum boxes and find it pretty average.  The illumination is not that even.  The vacuum does work a treat though.

Have bought all the parts to make myself a think-n-tink dsk128 copy but need some time to finish it.

---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi Cunningfellow,

 

I'm down in Melbourne as luck would have it. What are you buying.

 

I've just been out to a little business called Kalex Electronics (on Ebay too) to get a bit more Kinsten PCB and also some polyester transparency which is supposed to work well with either laser or inkjet. It's about $1.20 per A4 sheet but I'll be splitting those into 4 peices so that works out to 30c per transparency for all I may be doing at the moment. Still not as cheap as the Advanced Screen Printing ones but he sells in packs of 10 so I paid $12. Hope they work OK.

 

Picked up another tip for a cheap way of using vacuum to get that transparency hard against the board at every little point - Ziplock vacuum food bags. The guy that used them didn't get any folds on top of the transparency. Mind you there's still the issue of what will be used to suck the vacuum LOL. The wife's out at the shops now and I've asked her to grab some for me. I've noticed the higher end UV boxes have a vacuum system to pull the transparency hard against the board, makes mechanical sense. I might try making a manual vacuum pump with some plastic plumbing pipe.

---In homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com, <andrewm1973@...> wrote:

beefy,

Where in OZ are you?

I am going to be ordering some more soon to Brissy

---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Thanks again everyone,

 

that AdvancedScreenPrinting link is great, I wonder if they ship to Australia.

 

Another tip I picked up although not exactly a DIY method and and expensive way per print, is to take your image file to a desktop publisher or or a typesetting service, and ask for a positive film. Supposed to be completely opaque and super high resolution. No idea how much one printout would lighten the pocket by LOL.

---In homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com, <andrewm1973@...> wrote:

Dye inks can use gelatine coat trannies

Pigment inks need the micro porous ones 

http://advancedscreenprintsupply.com/store/screen_printing_inkjet_film.htm

Cheapest place I found with both types that know what they are.  Ebay sellers when questioned just reply "best quality type sir"

---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Thanks for the input lads.

 

I've also seen these opaque inks on Ebay (cheap too) that supposedly will work with nearly all inkjet printers. I'm afraid I paid too much for my Epson TX810FW  to use it as a guinea pig for one of these "universal" inks.

 

My printer isn't supported yet by that Gutenprint (dratt) so that's out for now.

 

A guy did some tests with various inkjet printers and reckons the Epson Stylus ones with original dye based ink came out best. He took microscopic photos of the print to illustrate the solidness of the print. He also said out of the various transparencies he tried, Epson also gave the best results.

 

Pity inkjet transparencies are expensive for quality ones. 3M have some and claim they deliver excellent crisp quality prints, but a pack costs $80+. The Epson transparencies are about the same price.

 

It's amazing how much can be involved in just getting a good positive film.

---In homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com, <rjshaw@...> wrote:

On 02/11/13 08:53, beefyzee@... wrote:

>
>
> Well my head is spinning in my quest for finding the ultimate print method for
> getting a solid opaque print for the UV method of making PCBs.
>
> The more I read the more it seems inkjets annihilate laser printers in this
> regard. So far it seems Epson Stylus inkjets with Epson transparency and
> original DYE based ink produce good results, when printing in best photo quality
> mode.
>
> I would like to gain an in depth understanding of how all the different choices
> in my Epson printer software affect the print output (resolution, ink useage,
> print speed, etc). For example there's print quality choices, lots of paper
> choices, high speed mode, etc, but neither the printer manual, the help file, or
> Google / Youtube searching can give explanations of all this.
>
> I know some are using lasers, tracing paper, doubling or tripling the positives
> on top of each other, etc, but for reasons based on my research I'm wanting to
> get away from those "workarounds" and get a solid opaque print on
> transparencies. The screen printing industry seems to use primarilly inkjet
> printers, and there's even special ultra black opaque inks available for these guys.
>
> So my finishing question is does anyone know of any detail guides on all the
> settings in Epson inkjet printers.

I'm still using an Epson Stylus 400 (10+ years old) with cheap refill dye ink
because the genuine cartridges are discontinued.

After upgrading the PC (debian linux), i couldn't get all the unexposed resist
to develop off the pcb.

After testing the UV blocking of the ink with a UV light meter, i found the
black ink is only blocking two-thirds of the light.

The printer used to put out bucket loads of ink on to the gelatine transparency
such that it would pool for a second before soaking in.

Because i've got a detailed user manual, developer manual, and source code to
the printer driver (gutenprint), i'll figure out how to get more ink out.

http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/p_Documentation.php

---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 Cunningfellow,

 

Interesting what you said about the uneven light distribution in your UV box. I've just pulled apart a nail varnish curer and am going to put the U-shaped fluoro lamps close to each other in a home made box. I've noticed a lot of UV boxes have the lamps spaced some distance apart and I did wonder if that could give a lack of concentration where the large gaps are.

 

Well I'm having one disaster after another today. The polyester film I've just bought is aboslute crap to put it lightly. It's not transparent but more like white tracing paper, and it soaks the ink like blotting paper. What is doesn't soak up pools on the surface but concentrates in lumps, like water on a waxy surface. I pretty much ended up with one big black smudge, so $12 down the drain apart from the education in what DOESN'T work. It also didnt' give an opaque print, and I could see my fingers through the black. Basic plain paper put it to shame.

 

Next thing I tried was some adhesive transparencies designed for inkjets, and now I find my printer cannot find them and says printer is out of paper, even though it feeds the transparency all the way through. Googled the matter and someone else with an Epson printer had the same issue. His even had a simple answer of "no" on the Epson website to the question, "Can it print on transparencies ?".

 

By the way I have no idea what a "think-n-tink dsk128 copy" is LOL.

 

I'll try taping some white paper to the transparency to trick the printer. May the Gods have some mercy on me.

 

---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Beefy,

Just getting a box of 100 of the pigment compatible ones to try in an epson printer.  My canon works fine with the gelatine ones but I want to see how much better epson is.

I have used polyester/vellum in the past and it did not give as good a result as the inkjet films on anything but a giant laser printer.  I have a little laserjet 4000 series printer at home and the inkjet does better than it.

I have one of the kinsten brand "high end" vacuum boxes and find it pretty average.  The illumination is not that even.  The vacuum does work a treat though.

Have bought all the parts to make myself a think-n-tink dsk128 copy but need some time to finish it.

---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi Cunningfellow,

 

I'm down in Melbourne as luck would have it. What are you buying.

 

I've just been out to a little business called Kalex Electronics (on Ebay too) to get a bit more Kinsten PCB and also some polyester transparency which is supposed to work well with either laser or inkjet. It's about $1.20 per A4 sheet but I'll be splitting those into 4 peices so that works out to 30c per transparency for all I may be doing at the moment. Still not as cheap as the Advanced Screen Printing ones but he sells in packs of 10 so I paid $12. Hope they work OK.

 

Picked up another tip for a cheap way of using vacuum to get that transparency hard against the board at every little point - Ziplock vacuum food bags. The guy that used them didn't get any folds on top of the transparency. Mind you there's still the issue of what will be used to suck the vacuum LOL. The wife's out at the shops now and I've asked her to grab some for me. I've noticed the higher end UV boxes have a vacuum system to pull the transparency hard against the board, makes mechanical sense. I might try making a manual vacuum pump with some plastic plumbing pipe.

---In homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com, <andrewm1973@...> wrote:

beefy,

Where in OZ are you?

I am going to be ordering some more soon to Brissy

---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Thanks again everyone,

 

that AdvancedScreenPrinting link is great, I wonder if they ship to Australia.

 

Another tip I picked up although not exactly a DIY method and and expensive way per print, is to take your image file to a desktop publisher or or a typesetting service, and ask for a positive film. Supposed to be completely opaque and super high resolution. No idea how much one printout would lighten the pocket by LOL.

---In homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com, <andrewm1973@...> wrote:

Dye inks can use gelatine coat trannies

Pigment inks need the micro porous ones 

http://advancedscreenprintsupply.com/store/screen_printing_inkjet_film.htm

Cheapest place I found with both types that know what they are.  Ebay sellers when questioned just reply "best quality type sir"

---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Thanks for the input lads.

 

I've also seen these opaque inks on Ebay (cheap too) that supposedly will work with nearly all inkjet printers. I'm afraid I paid too much for my Epson TX810FW  to use it as a guinea pig for one of these "universal" inks.

 

My printer isn't supported yet by that Gutenprint (dratt) so that's out for now.

 

A guy did some tests with various inkjet printers and reckons the Epson Stylus ones with original dye based ink came out best. He took microscopic photos of the print to illustrate the solidness of the print. He also said out of the various transparencies he tried, Epson also gave the best results.

 

Pity inkjet transparencies are expensive for quality ones. 3M have some and claim they deliver excellent crisp quality prints, but a pack costs $80+. The Epson transparencies are about the same price.

 

It's amazing how much can be involved in just getting a good positive film.

---In homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com, <rjshaw@...> wrote:

On 02/11/13 08:53, beefyzee@... wrote:

>
>
> Well my head is spinning in my quest for finding the ultimate print method for
> getting a solid opaque print for the UV method of making PCBs.
>
> The more I read the more it seems inkjets annihilate laser printers in this
> regard. So far it seems Epson Stylus inkjets with Epson transparency and
> original DYE based ink produce good results, when printing in best photo quality
> mode.
>
> I would like to gain an in depth understanding of how all the different choices
> in my Epson printer software affect the print output (resolution, ink useage,
> print speed, etc). For example there's print quality choices, lots of paper
> choices, high speed mode, etc, but neither the printer manual, the help file, or
> Google / Youtube searching can give explanations of all this.
>
> I know some are using lasers, tracing paper, doubling or tripling the positives
> on top of each other, etc, but for reasons based on my research I'm wanting to
> get away from those "workarounds" and get a solid opaque print on
> transparencies. The screen printing industry seems to use primarilly inkjet
> printers, and there's even special ultra black opaque inks available for these guys.
>
> So my finishing question is does anyone know of any detail guides on all the
> settings in Epson inkjet printers.

I'm still using an Epson Stylus 400 (10+ years old) with cheap refill dye ink
because the genuine cartridges are discontinued.

After upgrading the PC (debian linux), i couldn't get all the unexposed resist
to develop off the pcb.

After testing the UV blocking of the ink with a UV light meter, i found the
black ink is only blocking two-thirds of the light.

The printer used to put out bucket loads of ink on to the gelatine transparency
such that it would pool for a second before soaking in.

Because i've got a detailed user manual, developer manual, and source code to
the printer driver (gutenprint), i'll figure out how to get more ink out.

http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/p_Documentation.php

---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

My friend has an epson and its inks just pool and don't dry on the gelatine coated transperancies I use in my canon printer.

I am going to buy a box of the microporous ones next so that I can see if the epson is better than the canon.

think n tink UV box

http://www.thinktink.com/stack/volumes/voli/store/specs/dksuv.htm

Build insrcutions

http://www.thinktink.com/stack/volumes/voliii/equipment/uvlamp/uvlamp.htm

I've bought all the parts for building the thing, as well as all the parts for a vacuum frame.  Tell you how I go soon hopefully.

---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 Cunningfellow,

 

Interesting what you said about the uneven light distribution in your UV box. I've just pulled apart a nail varnish curer and am going to put the U-shaped fluoro lamps close to each other in a home made box. I've noticed a lot of UV boxes have the lamps spaced some distance apart and I did wonder if that could give a lack of concentration where the large gaps are.

 

Well I'm having one disaster after another today. The polyester film I've just bought is aboslute crap to put it lightly. It's not transparent but more like white tracing paper, and it soaks the ink like blotting paper. What is doesn't soak up pools on the surface but concentrates in lumps, like water on a waxy surface. I pretty much ended up with one big black smudge, so $12 down the drain apart from the education in what DOESN'T work. It also didnt' give an opaque print, and I could see my fingers through the black. Basic plain paper put it to shame.

 

Next thing I tried was some adhesive transparencies designed for inkjets, and now I find my printer cannot find them and says printer is out of paper, even though it feeds the transparency all the way through. Googled the matter and someone else with an Epson printer had the same issue. His even had a simple answer of "no" on the Epson website to the question, "Can it print on transparencies ?".

 

By the way I have no idea what a "think-n-tink dsk128 copy" is LOL.

 

I'll try taping some white paper to the transparency to trick the printer. May the Gods have some mercy on me.

 

---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Beefy,

Just getting a box of 100 of the pigment compatible ones to try in an epson printer.  My canon works fine with the gelatine ones but I want to see how much better epson is.

I have used polyester/vellum in the past and it did not give as good a result as the inkjet films on anything but a giant laser printer.  I have a little laserjet 4000 series printer at home and the inkjet does better than it.

I have one of the kinsten brand "high end" vacuum boxes and find it pretty average.  The illumination is not that even.  The vacuum does work a treat though.

Have bought all the parts to make myself a think-n-tink dsk128 copy but need some time to finish it.

---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi Cunningfellow,

 

I'm down in Melbourne as luck would have it. What are you buying.

 

I've just been out to a little business called Kalex Electronics (on Ebay too) to get a bit more Kinsten PCB and also some polyester transparency which is supposed to work well with either laser or inkjet. It's about $1.20 per A4 sheet but I'll be splitting those into 4 peices so that works out to 30c per transparency for all I may be doing at the moment. Still not as cheap as the Advanced Screen Printing ones but he sells in packs of 10 so I paid $12. Hope they work OK.

 

Picked up another tip for a cheap way of using vacuum to get that transparency hard against the board at every little point - Ziplock vacuum food bags. The guy that used them didn't get any folds on top of the transparency. Mind you there's still the issue of what will be used to suck the vacuum LOL. The wife's out at the shops now and I've asked her to grab some for me. I've noticed the higher end UV boxes have a vacuum system to pull the transparency hard against the board, makes mechanical sense. I might try making a manual vacuum pump with some plastic plumbing pipe.

---In homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com, <andrewm1973@...> wrote:

beefy,

Where in OZ are you?

I am going to be ordering some more soon to Brissy

---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Thanks again everyone,

 

that AdvancedScreenPrinting link is great, I wonder if they ship to Australia.

 

Another tip I picked up although not exactly a DIY method and and expensive way per print, is to take your image file to a desktop publisher or or a typesetting service, and ask for a positive film. Supposed to be completely opaque and super high resolution. No idea how much one printout would lighten the pocket by LOL.

---In homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com, <andrewm1973@...> wrote:

Dye inks can use gelatine coat trannies

Pigment inks need the micro porous ones 

http://advancedscreenprintsupply.com/store/screen_printing_inkjet_film.htm

Cheapest place I found with both types that know what they are.  Ebay sellers when questioned just reply "best quality type sir"

---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Thanks for the input lads.

 

I've also seen these opaque inks on Ebay (cheap too) that supposedly will work with nearly all inkjet printers. I'm afraid I paid too much for my Epson TX810FW  to use it as a guinea pig for one of these "universal" inks.

 

My printer isn't supported yet by that Gutenprint (dratt) so that's out for now.

 

A guy did some tests with various inkjet printers and reckons the Epson Stylus ones with original dye based ink came out best. He took microscopic photos of the print to illustrate the solidness of the print. He also said out of the various transparencies he tried, Epson also gave the best results.

 

Pity inkjet transparencies are expensive for quality ones. 3M have some and claim they deliver excellent crisp quality prints, but a pack costs $80+. The Epson transparencies are about the same price.

 

It's amazing how much can be involved in just getting a good positive film.

---In homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com, <rjshaw@...> wrote:

On 02/11/13 08:53, beefyzee@... wrote:

>
>
> Well my head is spinning in my quest for finding the ultimate print method for
> getting a solid opaque print for the UV method of making PCBs.
>
> The more I read the more it seems inkjets annihilate laser printers in this
> regard. So far it seems Epson Stylus inkjets with Epson transparency and
> original DYE based ink produce good results, when printing in best photo quality
> mode.
>
> I would like to gain an in depth understanding of how all the different choices
> in my Epson printer software affect the print output (resolution, ink useage,
> print speed, etc). For example there's print quality choices, lots of paper
> choices, high speed mode, etc, but neither the printer manual, the help file, or
> Google / Youtube searching can give explanations of all this.
>
> I know some are using lasers, tracing paper, doubling or tripling the positives
> on top of each other, etc, but for reasons based on my research I'm wanting to
> get away from those "workarounds" and get a solid opaque print on
> transparencies. The screen printing industry seems to use primarilly inkjet
> printers, and there's even special ultra black opaque inks available for these guys.
>
> So my finishing question is does anyone know of any detail guides on all the
> settings in Epson inkjet printers.

I'm still using an Epson Stylus 400 (10+ years old) with cheap refill dye ink
because the genuine cartridges are discontinued.

After upgrading the PC (debian linux), i couldn't get all the unexposed resist
to develop off the pcb.

After testing the UV blocking of the ink with a UV light meter, i found the
black ink is only blocking two-thirds of the light.

The printer used to put out bucket loads of ink on to the gelatine transparency
such that it would pool for a second before soaking in.

Because i've got a detailed user manual, developer manual, and source code to
the printer driver (gutenprint), i'll figure out how to get more ink out.

http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/p_Documentation.php

---In homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com, <alienrelics@...> wrote:

Please trim. That message was really ridiculously long.

Black isn't necessarily the right color to block UV. And ink is not ink is not ink.

I wrote this a few years ago with Tshirt printing in mind:
http://www.polyphoto.com/tutorials/bulkinksystem/InkjetFAQ.html

Worse, many inkjet printers print black at a lower resolution than color inks.

This post sums things up very well, why you want a photo printer and why you want to print in color inks, not black:

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/message/6566

If you have more links on this, we have this and other links in the Links/Photoresist_Etching section.

Steve Greenfield AE7HD
PS Beefyzee, try joining Electronics_101 again, but say something meaningful this time... ;') Just because you are on one Yahoogroup, doesn't mean I'll remember you on another. I'm not good enough with names to remember 5000+.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <beefyzee@...> wrote:
>
> Ah so that's what it is. Good luck with your build.
>
> OK, after throwing all the toys out of the pram, and spitting the dummy, I jumped out the pram, picked the toys up and sucked on the dummy again.
>
> My perseverance is paying off. It's just amazing how much the settings affect the print density. Went to Epson Matte paper choice and things improved, but still a lot of pinholes. Turned off high speed and density increased further. Found some slider bars for density and contrast and set them to max, now pinholes just about gone.
>
> Holding the transparency up to a very bright compact fluoro light and I can just see the light through the black but compared to the non printed clear areas the intense brightness of the light hurts my eyes. I'm guessing the black is going to block the UV enough.
>
> The worst problem I'm having is feeding the transparency with the white paper attached. I keep getting paper jams. So now my quest is to find another printer which can detect transparenies, and I'll fill all ink cartridges with some of that special super black ink that's been mentioned. Then that will be the dedicated PCB making printer.
>
>