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Measured light reception from 10W LED according to distance from centre

Measured light reception from 10W LED according to distance from centre

2013-09-19 by Robin Whittle

With the 10W UV LED I described in recent messages, I measured the
amount of light falling on a flat surface, like the PCB, according to
how far from the direct perpendicular point of illumination this is.

The LED consists of 9 chips encased in some kind of relatively soft
epoxy or silicone material.  There is no side-ways attempt to reflect
light.  The light comes out of the surfaces of the very thin chips
rather than their edges.  I guess the conductive light emitting surface
is grown on sapphire, since it needs to conduct heat well and it cannot
be electrically conductive, since all the 9 chips are mounted directly
on the metal heatsink.  So this is very different from 3mm and 5mm LEDs
where the chip tends to radiate sideways and have its light reflected by
a cupped part of the mounting electrode, and then further focussed by
the lens-like shape of the epoxy encapsulation.

As far as I know, and ignoring internal reflection from the surface of
the encapsulant, the whole LED assembly would radiate in all directions
evenly, with the energy varying by direction according to the Lambertian
pattern depicted as a circle in the diagram at:

  http://zeiss-campus.magnet.fsu.edu/print/lightsources/leds-print.html


Looking at that diagram, I can see that at 30 degrees, the power is
about 88% of the power at 0 degrees.  However, further factors affect
how much energy per unit surface area the PCB gets from the light at
such an angle.

1 - The PCB is further away than at 0 degrees.

2 - The light is falling at an oblique angle, so a given solid angle
    of light radiation is spread over a larger surface area of Riston
    or whatever photoresist is used on the PCB.

3 - The surface reflections will likely increase with angle from
    whatever they are at 0 degrees (the light passing the surfaces
    at 90 degrees to each surface):

      Top surface of the glass (or whatever) cover.
      Bottom surface of the glass cover.

      Top surface of the phototool (I am using laser printed Mylar).
      Bottom surface of the phototool (I am using laser printed Mylar).

      Top surface of the thin Mylar protective film of the photoresist
      which keeps oxygen away from the Riston.  (Oxygen inhibits it from
      polymerizing with light exposure.)

      (This is probably very minimal, due to the likely close refractive
      index match between the Riston and the Mylar protective film:
      the bottom surface of the Mylar protective film.)

4 - The light travels through a greater distance of glass and phototool
    than when the angle is 0 degrees from perpendicular.

I did some tests with a distance from LED to PCB of 34cm.  The glass is
5mm conventional float glass - soda lime I assume.  The glass is part of
an old 35mm film contact printing frame, in which the hinged glass cover
clips down over the film and photo paper, which sit on some soft
polyurethane foam.  So this is probably higher quality (less iron and so
less green) than ordinary window glass, but I doubt if this matters much
for these measurements.

Below the glass is an unprinted sheet of the special "single matte" (it
is not even matte - it is almost gloss on one side and is gloss on the
other) Mylar laser film I use for phototools:

  http://screenprinting.asc365.com/index.asp?ID=PD007003

Below that is my light sensor, a bare silicon solar cell, with only a
small section about 8mm in diameter exposed to light via a hole in some
black cardboard.  This solar cell is unusual in that it has been
chemically etched so the surface resembles random pyramids.  This is to
increase the light absorption.  As far as I know this is a good way to
estimate the amount of light per unit surface area which would fall on
the Riston coating of a PCB in that location.

I measured the current in microamps and moved the open spot away from
directly underneath the LED, which was facing straight down.  I moved
1cm per measurement.  Here are the results with the left column the
fraction of the vertical distance I moved to the side and the right
column the percentage of light which fell on the exposed area compared
to the amount at 0cm = 0 degrees.

Distance    Amount of light

 0.000   100.0%
 0.029    99.9%
 0.058    99.3%
 0.088    98.8%
 0.117    97.8%
 0.147    96.2%
 0.176    94.3%
 0.206    92.3%
 0.235    90.3%
 0.265    87.6%
 0.294    84.9%
 0.323    82.1%
 0.353    79.1%
 0.382    75.9%
 0.412    72.7%
 0.441    64.9%
 0.470    66.5%
 0.500    63.6%
 0.529    60.4%

So with this 34cm distance, which will probably give me an exposure time
of 40 to 60 seconds, if I want a total range of exposure time being 10%,
I should keep the corners of the board within about 0.235 x 34 cm = 8cm
of the centre of illumination.  That means I can do an 11.3cm square
board.

This is a pretty tight tolerance, since I think Riston has quite a wide
exposure latitude.  If I allowed 20% less light at the corners, then
this would enable the corners to be ~0.343 x 34 = 11.7cm from the
centre.  This is a 16.5cm square board.

I will do some careful exposure tests with a phototool with radiating
lines and spaces.  The lines and spaces are the same width but their
width diminishes towards zero the centre of the radiation.  When the
exposure is ideal, the resulting developed pattern in the Riston shows
the lines extending towards the centre without disappearing (under
exposure) or joining together (over exposure) better than for any other
exposure time.

 - Robin  http://www.firstpr.com.au/pcb-diy/

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Measured light reception from 10W LED according to distance from centre

2013-09-19 by Slavko Kocjancic

Hello...
Robin can you test what time takes if the led is just 1 cm above 
(instead 34) board?
I know the area will be small but I'm just interested how big efect the 
distance have on time?
If source is point then relation is square from distance but the led 
isn't point source...
Thanks.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 09/19/2013 09:06 AM, Robin Whittle wrote:
> With the 10W UV LED I described in recent messages, I measured the
> amount of light falling on a flat surface, like the PCB, according to
> how far from the direct perpendicular point of illumination this is.
>
> The LED consists of 9 chips encased in some kind of relatively soft
> epoxy or silicone material.  There is no side-ways attempt to reflect
> light.  The light comes out of the surfaces of the very thin chips
> rather than their edges.  I guess the conductive light emitting surface
> is grown on sapphire, since it needs to conduct heat well and it cannot
> be electrically conductive, since all the 9 chips are mounted directly
> on the metal heatsink.  So this is very different from 3mm and 5mm LEDs
> where the chip tends to radiate sideways and have its light reflected by
> a cupped part of the mounting electrode, and then further focussed by
> the lens-like shape of the epoxy encapsulation.
>
> As far as I know, and ignoring internal reflection from the surface of
> the encapsulant, the whole LED assembly would radiate in all directions
> evenly, with the energy varying by direction according to the Lambertian
> pattern depicted as a circle in the diagram at:
>
>    http://zeiss-campus.magnet.fsu.edu/print/lightsources/leds-print.html
>
>
> Looking at that diagram, I can see that at 30 degrees, the power is
> about 88% of the power at 0 degrees.  However, further factors affect
> how much energy per unit surface area the PCB gets from the light at
> such an angle.
>
> 1 - The PCB is further away than at 0 degrees.
>
> 2 - The light is falling at an oblique angle, so a given solid angle
>      of light radiation is spread over a larger surface area of Riston
>      or whatever photoresist is used on the PCB.
>
> 3 - The surface reflections will likely increase with angle from
>      whatever they are at 0 degrees (the light passing the surfaces
>      at 90 degrees to each surface):
>
>        Top surface of the glass (or whatever) cover.
>        Bottom surface of the glass cover.
>
>        Top surface of the phototool (I am using laser printed Mylar).
>        Bottom surface of the phototool (I am using laser printed Mylar).
>
>        Top surface of the thin Mylar protective film of the photoresist
>        which keeps oxygen away from the Riston.  (Oxygen inhibits it from
>        polymerizing with light exposure.)
>
>        (This is probably very minimal, due to the likely close refractive
>        index match between the Riston and the Mylar protective film:
>        the bottom surface of the Mylar protective film.)
>
> 4 - The light travels through a greater distance of glass and phototool
>      than when the angle is 0 degrees from perpendicular.
>
> I did some tests with a distance from LED to PCB of 34cm.  The glass is
> 5mm conventional float glass - soda lime I assume.  The glass is part of
> an old 35mm film contact printing frame, in which the hinged glass cover
> clips down over the film and photo paper, which sit on some soft
> polyurethane foam.  So this is probably higher quality (less iron and so
> less green) than ordinary window glass, but I doubt if this matters much
> for these measurements.
>
> Below the glass is an unprinted sheet of the special "single matte" (it
> is not even matte - it is almost gloss on one side and is gloss on the
> other) Mylar laser film I use for phototools:
>
>    http://screenprinting.asc365.com/index.asp?ID=PD007003
>
> Below that is my light sensor, a bare silicon solar cell, with only a
> small section about 8mm in diameter exposed to light via a hole in some
> black cardboard.  This solar cell is unusual in that it has been
> chemically etched so the surface resembles random pyramids.  This is to
> increase the light absorption.  As far as I know this is a good way to
> estimate the amount of light per unit surface area which would fall on
> the Riston coating of a PCB in that location.
>
> I measured the current in microamps and moved the open spot away from
> directly underneath the LED, which was facing straight down.  I moved
> 1cm per measurement.  Here are the results with the left column the
> fraction of the vertical distance I moved to the side and the right
> column the percentage of light which fell on the exposed area compared
> to the amount at 0cm = 0 degrees.
>
> Distance    Amount of light
>
>   0.000   100.0%
>   0.029    99.9%
>   0.058    99.3%
>   0.088    98.8%
>   0.117    97.8%
>   0.147    96.2%
>   0.176    94.3%
>   0.206    92.3%
>   0.235    90.3%
>   0.265    87.6%
>   0.294    84.9%
>   0.323    82.1%
>   0.353    79.1%
>   0.382    75.9%
>   0.412    72.7%
>   0.441    64.9%
>   0.470    66.5%
>   0.500    63.6%
>   0.529    60.4%
>
> So with this 34cm distance, which will probably give me an exposure time
> of 40 to 60 seconds, if I want a total range of exposure time being 10%,
> I should keep the corners of the board within about 0.235 x 34 cm = 8cm
> of the centre of illumination.  That means I can do an 11.3cm square
> board.
>
> This is a pretty tight tolerance, since I think Riston has quite a wide
> exposure latitude.  If I allowed 20% less light at the corners, then
> this would enable the corners to be ~0.343 x 34 = 11.7cm from the
> centre.  This is a 16.5cm square board.
>
> I will do some careful exposure tests with a phototool with radiating
> lines and spaces.  The lines and spaces are the same width but their
> width diminishes towards zero the centre of the radiation.  When the
> exposure is ideal, the resulting developed pattern in the Riston shows
> the lines extending towards the centre without disappearing (under
> exposure) or joining together (over exposure) better than for any other
> exposure time.
>
>   - Robin  http://www.firstpr.com.au/pcb-diy/
>
>
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Measured light reception from 10W LED according to distance from centre

2013-09-19 by Russell Shaw

On 19/09/13 17:06, Robin Whittle wrote:
> With the 10W UV LED I described in recent messages, I measured the
> amount of light falling on a flat surface, like the PCB, according to
> how far from the direct perpendicular point of illumination this is.
...

Using this UV light meter, i found my pcb exposure box (75W mercury UV globe) 
gave 0.13mW/cm^2 at 60cm distance from the globe (it has a large parabolic 
reflector behind it).

Direct sunlight gave 6mw/cm^2.

If you could make an exposure box with UV sensor and automatic shutter, you 
could expose to sunlight in a matter of seconds. Even a cloudy overcast day gave 
more UV than my light box.

<http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Brand-New-UV340B-Digital-Pocket-UV-Light-Meter-UVA-UVB-Measure-Tester-Gauge-/271133949389?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item3f20d7bdcd>

Another meter:

<http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/UV-340A-Pocket-UV-Light-Meter-LUTRON-UV-340A-UVA-UVB-Measure-/271276514110?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item3f29571b3e>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Measured light reception from 10W LED according to distance from centre

2013-09-19 by Robin Whittle

Hi Slavko,

You wrote:

> Robin can you test what time takes if the led is just 1 cm above 
> (instead 34) board?

The area covered by the ligh is 1 / (34 x 34) of whatever it is at cm so
the time scales in the same way.

My exposure tests were at 30cm and I guess that somewhere between 40 to
80 seconds would be ideal.  If we assume 60 seconds, then the time to
get the same exposure at 1cm would be:

  60 / (30 * 30) = 62 milliseconds

> I know the area will be small but I'm just interested how big efect the 
> distance have on time?
> If source is point then relation is square from distance but the led 
> isn't point source...

For a photoplotter you would have quite a different optical arrangement
from simple radiant light hitting the Riston.

  - Robin

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Measured light reception from 10W LED according to distance from centre

2013-09-19 by Corey Minion

Your intensity would increase if you measure up, light falls off 
regardless of band over distance travelled.
The amount of light falling on a surface is the reciprocal, or inverse, 
of the square of the distance.
This is the famous inverse square law.

Obey the law.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 9/19/2013 7:24 AM, Robin Whittle wrote:
> Hi Slavko,
>
> You wrote:
>
>> Robin can you test what time takes if the led is just 1 cm above
>> (instead 34) board?
> The area covered by the ligh is 1 / (34 x 34) of whatever it is at cm so
> the time scales in the same way.
>
> My exposure tests were at 30cm and I guess that somewhere between 40 to
> 80 seconds would be ideal.  If we assume 60 seconds, then the time to
> get the same exposure at 1cm would be:
>
>    60 / (30 * 30) = 62 milliseconds
>
>> I know the area will be small but I'm just interested how big efect the
>> distance have on time?
>> If source is point then relation is square from distance but the led
>> isn't point source...
> For a photoplotter you would have quite a different optical arrangement
> from simple radiant light hitting the Riston.
>
>    - Robin
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Measured light reception from 10W LED according to distance from centre

2013-09-19 by Slavko Kocjancic

If that 62ms is true then I see a big GO for this project...
Just waiting for led to make real test.
And probably then I will hit the problem of focusing.
The optics isn't my area so I will probably make some mistkes.
If I look at the LED chip then the best should be if I be able to
make some kind of collimator to just project chip as is (to mimic 
paralel radiation from chip)
If source is spot then single lense should be enought, but led isn't 
single spot....
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 09/19/2013 01:24 PM, Robin Whittle wrote:
> Hi Slavko,
>
> You wrote:
>
>> Robin can you test what time takes if the led is just 1 cm above
>> (instead 34) board?
> The area covered by the ligh is 1 / (34 x 34) of whatever it is at cm so
> the time scales in the same way.
>
> My exposure tests were at 30cm and I guess that somewhere between 40 to
> 80 seconds would be ideal.  If we assume 60 seconds, then the time to
> get the same exposure at 1cm would be:
>
>    60 / (30 * 30) = 62 milliseconds
>
>> I know the area will be small but I'm just interested how big efect the
>> distance have on time?
>> If source is point then relation is square from distance but the led
>> isn't point source...
> For a photoplotter you would have quite a different optical arrangement
> from simple radiant light hitting the Riston.
>
>    - Robin
>

RE: Measured light reception from 10W LED according to distance from centre

2013-09-20 by <wcasse@...>

I like this idea of using a UV sensor - but this is a DIY group, so surely we can design and make something more purpose specific than the devices available on eBay.

I remembered that LEDs can be used as partial spectrum photo sensors, generating a voltage from wavelengths shorter than a specific threshold. If we use two LEDs - one just above the photoresist's sensitivity and one just below, an Arduino or similar might subtract one from the other to get an exposure value and drive a few 7 segment LEDs to count up from 0.

Each photoresist type would have a specific numeric value for proper exposure and should be relatively consistent regardless of atmospheric conditions.

Of course, I do not have the know-how to design or program this, but I would be happy to make one if someone would just show me how.

Show quoted textHide quoted text


--- In homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com, <rjshaw@...> wrote:

On 19/09/13 17:06, Robin Whittle wrote:
> With the 10W UV LED I described in recent messages, I measured the
> amount of light falling on a flat surface, like the PCB, according to
> how far from the direct perpendicular point of illumination this is.
...

Using this UV light meter, i found my pcb exposure box (75W mercury UV globe)
gave 0.13mW/cm^2 at 60cm distance from the globe (it has a large parabolic
reflector behind it).

Direct sunlight gave 6mw/cm^2.

If you could make an exposure box with UV sensor and automatic shutter, you
could expose to sunlight in a matter of seconds. Even a cloudy overcast day gave
more UV than my light box.

<http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Brand-New-UV340B-Digital-Pocket-UV-Light-Meter-UVA-UVB-Measure-Tester-Gauge-/271133949389?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item3f20d7bdcd>

Another meter:

<http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/UV-340A-Pocket-UV-Light-Meter-LUTRON-UV-340A-UVA-UVB-Measure-/271276514110?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item3f29571b3e>

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