Homebrew PCBs

Right then, time for a quick update...

My CuCl etching bath seems to be well on its way. As of last night, it
was dark green in colour with white foam and looked like it had oxidised
as much as it was going to. I added the last few bits of copper wire
(which were left over from the startup attempt) and turned the air
bubbler back on.

This evening I found the liquid in the tank was completely opaque -
white with a hint of green. Almost like someone had dumped a bag of
plaster mix in there... Oh dear. This one isn't in the manual...

I don't have a hydrometer, so I can't check the specific gravity of the
solution. For bonus points, I'm still trying to track down some suitable
containers to do the titration test Adam Seychell describes on his webpage.

... However the photos of the "you've added far too much NaOH" titration
looked oddly like the contents of my HCl+CuCl tank... which got me
wondering -- was the tank low on acid?

Turns out it was. I added a bit of acid (by the highly unscientific
"just add some with the bubbler on until it's not cloudy any more"
method) and the cloudiness vanished, leaving the green-black liquid I
had before.

It's now back on the air bubbler (and foaming like crazy), though given
the colour of the solution I think it may have already oxidised as it's
going to (although it went a heck of a lot brighter when I last threw in
some peroxide, though I'm all out of that at the moment).

-- 
Phil.
ygroups@...
http://www.philpem.me.uk/

I have a question about CuCl etchant.  I mixed up a galon of the stuff using the standard off the pharmacy shelf H2O2 and HCl I normally use in my swimming pool.  It worked great in my etchant tank the first time, but I have been unable to get it working again.  I've added more H2O2 and HCl but to no avail.  The liquid is a nice transparent lime green.  Any suggestions on how to recharge the stuff?


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Philip Pemberton <ygroups@...> wrote:

>
> Right then, time for a quick update...
> 
> My CuCl etching bath seems to be well on its way. As of last night, it
> was dark green in colour with white foam and looked like it had oxidised
> as much as it was going to. I added the last few bits of copper wire
> (which were left over from the startup attempt) and turned the air
> bubbler back on.
> 
> This evening I found the liquid in the tank was completely opaque -
> white with a hint of green. Almost like someone had dumped a bag of
> plaster mix in there... Oh dear. This one isn't in the manual...
> 
> I don't have a hydrometer, so I can't check the specific gravity of the
> solution. For bonus points, I'm still trying to track down some suitable
> containers to do the titration test Adam Seychell describes on his webpage.
> 
> ... However the photos of the "you've added far too much NaOH" titration
> looked oddly like the contents of my HCl+CuCl tank... which got me
> wondering -- was the tank low on acid?
> 
> Turns out it was. I added a bit of acid (by the highly unscientific
> "just add some with the bubbler on until it's not cloudy any more"
> method) and the cloudiness vanished, leaving the green-black liquid I
> had before.
> 
> It's now back on the air bubbler (and foaming like crazy), though given
> the colour of the solution I think it may have already oxidised as it's
> going to (although it went a heck of a lot brighter when I last threw in
> some peroxide, though I'm all out of that at the moment).
> 
> -- 
> Phil.
> ygroups@...
> http://www.philpem.me.uk/
>

On Sat, 17 Aug 2013 00:24:49 -0000, you wrote:

>I have a question about CuCl etchant.  I mixed up a galon of the stuff using the standard off the pharmacy shelf H2O2 and HCl I normally use in my swimming pool.  It worked great in my etchant tank the first time, but I have been unable to get it working again.  I've added more H2O2 and HCl but to no avail.  The liquid is a nice transparent lime green.  Any suggestions on how to recharge the stuff?


When first you mix it, it's transparent.  The peroxide provides lots
of oxygen.  After anything from a few days to a few weeks, the
peroxide stops providing oxygen to the etchant.  (which etchant will
turn green as it etches).

bubble air through it to provide oxygen and it should take off again.
I heat mine to about 105 degrees F to about 110 F.

Harvey

>
>
>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Philip Pemberton <ygroups@...> wrote:
>>
>> Right then, time for a quick update...
>> 
>> My CuCl etching bath seems to be well on its way. As of last night, it
>> was dark green in colour with white foam and looked like it had oxidised
>> as much as it was going to. I added the last few bits of copper wire
>> (which were left over from the startup attempt) and turned the air
>> bubbler back on.
>> 
>> This evening I found the liquid in the tank was completely opaque -
>> white with a hint of green. Almost like someone had dumped a bag of
>> plaster mix in there... Oh dear. This one isn't in the manual...
>> 
>> I don't have a hydrometer, so I can't check the specific gravity of the
>> solution. For bonus points, I'm still trying to track down some suitable
>> containers to do the titration test Adam Seychell describes on his webpage.
>> 
>> ... However the photos of the "you've added far too much NaOH" titration
>> looked oddly like the contents of my HCl+CuCl tank... which got me
>> wondering -- was the tank low on acid?
>> 
>> Turns out it was. I added a bit of acid (by the highly unscientific
>> "just add some with the bubbler on until it's not cloudy any more"
>> method) and the cloudiness vanished, leaving the green-black liquid I
>> had before.
>> 
>> It's now back on the air bubbler (and foaming like crazy), though given
>> the colour of the solution I think it may have already oxidised as it's
>> going to (although it went a heck of a lot brighter when I last threw in
>> some peroxide, though I'm all out of that at the moment).
>> 
>> -- 
>> Phil.
>> ygroups@...
>> http://www.philpem.me.uk/
>>
>

OK, I tried bubbling air through the mixture for about 24 hours with no change.  I heated to about 40 C and placed a PCB in just to test and after about 25 minutes it had just started to turn pink from etching.  The volume was at about 1/2 gallon and to this I added about 1/2 cup of HCL and left the board in for another 30 minutes with little change.  
 
 I think I will now put a lot of copper wire in, at 40 C and let it run to see if it will "take off", as you put it. 
 

--- In homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com, <madyn@...> wrote:

 On Sat, 17 Aug 2013 00:24:49 -0000, you wrote:



>I have a question about CuCl etchant.  I mixed up a galon of the stuff using the standard off the pharmacy shelf H2O2 and HCl I normally use in my swimming pool.  It worked great in my etchant tank the first time, but I have been unable to get it working again.  I've added more H2O2 and HCl but to no avail.  The liquid is a nice transparent lime green.  Any suggestions on how to recharge the stuff?





When first you mix it, it's transparent.  The peroxide provides lots

of oxygen.  After anything from a few days to a few weeks, the

peroxide stops providing oxygen to the etchant.  (which etchant will

turn green as it etches).



bubble air through it to provide oxygen and it should take off again.

I heat mine to about 105 degrees F to about 110 F.



Harvey





>

>

>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com , Philip Pemberton <ygroups@...> wrote:

>>

>> Right then, time for a quick update...

>> 

>> My CuCl etching bath seems to be well on its way. As of last night, it

>> was dark green in colour with white foam and looked like it had oxidised

>> as much as it was going to. I added the last few bits of copper wire

>> (which were left over from the startup attempt) and turned the air

>> bubbler back on.

>> 

>> This evening I found the liquid in the tank was completely opaque -

>> white with a hint of green. Almost like someone had dumped a bag of

>> plaster mix in there... Oh dear. This one isn't in the manual...

>> 

>> I don't have a hydrometer, so I can't check the specific gravity of the

>> solution. For bonus points, I'm still trying to track down some suitable

>> containers to do the titration test Adam Seychell describes on his webpage.

>> 

>> ... However the photos of the "you've added far too much NaOH" titration

>> looked oddly like the contents of my HCl+CuCl tank... which got me

>> wondering -- was the tank low on acid?

>> 

>> Turns out it was. I added a bit of acid (by the highly unscientific

>> "just add some with the bubbler on until it's not cloudy any more"

>> method) and the cloudiness vanished, leaving the green-black liquid I

>> had before.

>> 

>> It's now back on the air bubbler (and foaming like crazy), though given

>> the colour of the solution I think it may have already oxidised as it's

>> going to (although it went a heck of a lot brighter when I last threw in

>> some peroxide, though I'm all out of that at the moment).

>> 

>> -- 

>> Phil.

>> ygroups@...

>> http://www.philpem.me.uk/ 

>>

>

On 03 Sep 2013 15:32:43 -0700, you wrote:

>OK, I tried bubbling air through the mixture for about 24 hours with no change.� 
I wonder about the original proportions, I used about 4 parts H202
(standard drugstore) and 1 part muriatic acid (standard box store).

>I heated to about 40 C and placed a PCB in just to test and after about 25 minutes it had just started to turn pink from etching.� The volume was at about 1/2 gallon and to this I added about 1/2 cup of HCL and left the board in for another 30 minutes with little change.� 

you need to have the oxygen supplied as the solution heats.  

I apply the oxygen (bubbler) and allow it to heat.  That generally
(with my heater, etc) takes about half an hour to 45 minutes (rough
guess, it may be ready earlier).

*then* I put in the boards.  Etching a board takes about 20 minutes to
25 minutes for the first one (not sure what is lacking), and as the
time goes on, I put in boards and overlap them.  I've got a population
of boards going through at about 10 minute intervals in completion,
but no idea of how long an individual board takes.

I suspect that within half an hour, the first board would be done, but
I've never bothered to time them.  The temperature locally is up to 30
degrees (C) and as such, the bath heats with the air temperature and
the sun.  The bubbling air tends to cool off the solution, and I'll
admit that I do not monitor the temperature all that much... perhaps I
will later on..


> 
> I think I will now put a lot of copper wire in, at 40 C and let it run to see if it will "take off", as you put it. 
it may be a problem with not enough oxygen, which I'd think  needs to
have the solution both oxygenated and heated at the same time.  Not
obvious from your description that you are.

Harvey

> 
>
>--- In homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com, <madyn@...> wrote:
>
> On Sat, 17 Aug 2013 00:24:49 -0000, you wrote:
>
>
>
>>I have a question about CuCl etchant.  I mixed up a galon of the stuff using the standard off the pharmacy shelf H2O2 and HCl I normally use in my swimming pool.  It worked great in my etchant tank the first time, but I have been unable to get it working again.  I've added more H2O2 and HCl but to no avail.  The liquid is a nice transparent lime green.  Any suggestions on how to recharge the stuff?
>
>
>
>
>
>When first you mix it, it's transparent.  The peroxide provides lots
>
>of oxygen.  After anything from a few days to a few weeks, the
>
>peroxide stops providing oxygen to the etchant.  (which etchant will
>
>turn green as it etches).
>
>
>
>bubble air through it to provide oxygen and it should take off again.
>
>I heat mine to about 105 degrees F to about 110 F.
>
>
>
>Harvey
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com , Philip Pemberton <ygroups@...> wrote:
>
>>>
>
>>> Right then, time for a quick update...
>
>>> 
>
>>> My CuCl etching bath seems to be well on its way. As of last night, it
>
>>> was dark green in colour with white foam and looked like it had oxidised
>
>>> as much as it was going to. I added the last few bits of copper wire
>
>>> (which were left over from the startup attempt) and turned the air
>
>>> bubbler back on.
>
>>> 
>
>>> This evening I found the liquid in the tank was completely opaque -
>
>>> white with a hint of green. Almost like someone had dumped a bag of
>
>>> plaster mix in there... Oh dear. This one isn't in the manual...
>
>>> 
>
>>> I don't have a hydrometer, so I can't check the specific gravity of the
>
>>> solution. For bonus points, I'm still trying to track down some suitable
>
>>> containers to do the titration test Adam Seychell describes on his webpage.
>
>>> 
>
>>> ... However the photos of the "you've added far too much NaOH" titration
>
>>> looked oddly like the contents of my HCl+CuCl tank... which got me
>
>>> wondering -- was the tank low on acid?
>
>>> 
>
>>> Turns out it was. I added a bit of acid (by the highly unscientific
>
>>> "just add some with the bubbler on until it's not cloudy any more"
>
>>> method) and the cloudiness vanished, leaving the green-black liquid I
>
>>> had before.
>
>>> 
>
>>> It's now back on the air bubbler (and foaming like crazy), though given
>
>>> the colour of the solution I think it may have already oxidised as it's
>
>>> going to (although it went a heck of a lot brighter when I last threw in
>
>>> some peroxide, though I'm all out of that at the moment).
>
>>> 
>
>>> -- 
>
>>> Phil.
>
>>> ygroups@...
>
>>> http://www.philpem.me.uk/ 
>
>>>
>
>>

Refresher.
Small amount of Hydrogen peroxide.(optional)
Drop in a small piece pf copper and bubble away.
your looking for a dark green color.

This is an excellent write up... the best imho.
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~eseychell/PCB/etching_CuCl/






--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Terry" <twgray2007@...> wrote:

>
> I have a question about CuCl etchant.  I mixed up a galon of the stuff using the standard off the pharmacy shelf H2O2 and HCl I normally use in my swimming pool.  It worked great in my etchant tank the first time, but I have been unable to get it working again.  I've added more H2O2 and HCl but to no avail.  The liquid is a nice transparent lime green.  Any suggestions on how to recharge the stuff?
> 
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Philip Pemberton <ygroups@> wrote:
> >
> > Right then, time for a quick update...
> > 
> > My CuCl etching bath seems to be well on its way. As of last night, it
> > was dark green in colour with white foam and looked like it had oxidised
> > as much as it was going to. I added the last few bits of copper wire
> > (which were left over from the startup attempt) and turned the air
> > bubbler back on.
> > 
> > This evening I found the liquid in the tank was completely opaque -
> > white with a hint of green. Almost like someone had dumped a bag of
> > plaster mix in there... Oh dear. This one isn't in the manual...
> > 
> > I don't have a hydrometer, so I can't check the specific gravity of the
> > solution. For bonus points, I'm still trying to track down some suitable
> > containers to do the titration test Adam Seychell describes on his webpage.
> > 
> > ... However the photos of the "you've added far too much NaOH" titration
> > looked oddly like the contents of my HCl+CuCl tank... which got me
> > wondering -- was the tank low on acid?
> > 
> > Turns out it was. I added a bit of acid (by the highly unscientific
> > "just add some with the bubbler on until it's not cloudy any more"
> > method) and the cloudiness vanished, leaving the green-black liquid I
> > had before.
> > 
> > It's now back on the air bubbler (and foaming like crazy), though given
> > the colour of the solution I think it may have already oxidised as it's
> > going to (although it went a heck of a lot brighter when I last threw in
> > some peroxide, though I'm all out of that at the moment).
> > 
> > -- 
> > Phil.
> > ygroups@
> > http://www.philpem.me.uk/
> >
>

Pink? should be green or some shade of.
Sam

Read this.
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~eseychell/PCB/etching_CuCl/




--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <twgray2007@...> wrote:

>
> OK, I tried bubbling air through the mixture for about 24 hours with no change.  I heated to about 40 C and placed a PCB in just to test and after about 25 minutes it had just started to turn pink from etching.  The volume was at about 1/2 gallon and to this I added about 1/2 cup of HCL and left the board in for another 30 minutes with little change.  
>  
>  I think I will now put a lot of copper wire in, at 40 C and let it run to see if it will "take off", as you put it. 
>

Forgot to mention.

here is what mine looked like. 
http://thesn1per.blogspot.com/2013/06/diy-circuit-boards-tachometer.html

The color you see is the result after about 1 hour of mixing with a small piece of coper
bubbling the entire time. I used no heat. Im in Florida the ambient temp is quite hot as it is.
I tried heat on previous times the results ere the same.
I will add as time goes on the mixture will become a darker shade of green.
I hope this helps.
Sam





--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "thesn1per" <mail4sam@...> wrote:

>
> Pink? should be green or some shade of.
> Sam
> 
> Read this.
> http://members.optusnet.com.au/~eseychell/PCB/etching_CuCl/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <twgray2007@> wrote:
> >
> > OK, I tried bubbling air through the mixture for about 24 hours with no change.  I heated to about 40 C and placed a PCB in just to test and after about 25 minutes it had just started to turn pink from etching.  The volume was at about 1/2 gallon and to this I added about 1/2 cup of HCL and left the board in for another 30 minutes with little change.  
> >  
> >  I think I will now put a lot of copper wire in, at 40 C and let it run to see if it will "take off", as you put it. 
> >
>

Yes, I am heating and bubbling at the same time...just like a hot tub! :=> 
 I am running it with stranded copper wire at the moment to see if that kicks it off.
 

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 On 03 Sep 2013 15:32:43 -0700, you wrote:



>OK, I tried bubbling air through the mixture for about 24 hours with no change.  

I wonder about the original proportions, I used about 4 parts H202

(standard drugstore) and 1 part muriatic acid (standard box store).



>I heated to about 40 C and placed a PCB in just to test and after about 25 minutes it had just started to turn pink from etching.  The volume was at about 1/2 gallon and to this I added about 1/2 cup of HCL and left the board in for another 30 minutes with little change.  



you need to have the oxygen supplied as the solution heats.  



I apply the oxygen (bubbler) and allow it to heat.  That generally

(with my heater, etc) takes about half an hour to 45 minutes (rough

guess, it may be ready earlier).



*then* I put in the boards.  Etching a board takes about 20 minutes to

25 minutes for the first one (not sure what is lacking), and as the

time goes on, I put in boards and overlap them.  I've got a population

of boards going through at about 10 minute intervals in completion,

but no idea of how long an individual board takes.



I suspect that within half an hour, the first board would be done, but

I've never bothered to time them.  The temperature locally is up to 30

degrees (C) and as such, the bath heats with the air temperature and

the sun.  The bubbling air tends to cool off the solution, and I'll

admit that I do not monitor the temperature all that much... perhaps I

will later on..





> 

> I think I will now put a lot of copper wire in, at 40 C and let it run to see if it will "take off", as you put it. 

it may be a problem with not enough oxygen, which I'd think  needs to

have the solution both oxygenated and heated at the same time.  Not

obvious from your description that you are.



Harvey



> 

>

>--- In homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com , <madyn@...> wrote:

>

> On Sat, 17 Aug 2013 00:24:49 -0000, you wrote:

>

>

>

>>I have a question about CuCl etchant.  I mixed up a galon of the stuff using the standard off the pharmacy shelf H2O2 and HCl I normally use in my swimming pool.  It worked great in my etchant tank the first time, but I have been unable to get it working again.  I've added more H2O2 and HCl but to no avail.  The liquid is a nice transparent lime green.  Any suggestions on how to recharge the stuff?

>

>

>

>

>

>When first you mix it, it's transparent.  The peroxide provides lots

>

>of oxygen.  After anything from a few days to a few weeks, the

>

>peroxide stops providing oxygen to the etchant.  (which etchant will

>

>turn green as it etches).

>

>

>

>bubble air through it to provide oxygen and it should take off again.

>

>I heat mine to about 105 degrees F to about 110 F.

>

>

>

>Harvey

>

>

>

>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com , Philip Pemberton <ygroups@...> wrote:

>

>>>

>

>>> Right then, time for a quick update...

>

>>> 

>

>>> My CuCl etching bath seems to be well on its way. As of last night, it

>

>>> was dark green in colour with white foam and looked like it had oxidised

>

>>> as much as it was going to. I added the last few bits of copper wire

>

>>> (which were left over from the startup attempt) and turned the air

>

>>> bubbler back on.

>

>>> 

>

>>> This evening I found the liquid in the tank was completely opaque -

>

>>> white with a hint of green. Almost like someone had dumped a bag of

>

>>> plaster mix in there... Oh dear. This one isn't in the manual...

>

>>> 

>

>>> I don't have a hydrometer, so I can't check the specific gravity of the

>

>>> solution. For bonus points, I'm still trying to track down some suitable

>

>>> containers to do the titration test Adam Seychell describes on his webpage.

>

>>> 

>

>>> ... However the photos of the "you've added far too much NaOH" titration

>

>>> looked oddly like the contents of my HCl+CuCl tank... which got me

>

>>> wondering -- was the tank low on acid?

>

>>> 

>

>>> Turns out it was. I added a bit of acid (by the highly unscientific

>

>>> "just add some with the bubbler on until it's not cloudy any more"

>

>>> method) and the cloudiness vanished, leaving the green-black liquid I

>

>>> had before.

>

>>> 

>

>>> It's now back on the air bubbler (and foaming like crazy), though given

>

>>> the colour of the solution I think it may have already oxidised as it's

>

>>> going to (although it went a heck of a lot brighter when I last threw in

>

>>> some peroxide, though I'm all out of that at the moment).

>

>>> 

>

>>> -- 

>

>>> Phil.

>

>>> ygroups@...

>

>>> http://www.philpem.me.uk/ 

>

>>>

>

>>

On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 23:46:25 -0000, you wrote:

>Pink? should be green or some shade of.

Pink was the color of the copper, not the solution.

Harvey

>Sam
>
>Read this.
>http://members.optusnet.com.au/~eseychell/PCB/etching_CuCl/
>
>
>
>
>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <twgray2007@...> wrote:
>>
>> OK, I tried bubbling air through the mixture for about 24 hours with no change.\ufffd I heated to about 40 C and placed a PCB in just to test and after about 25 minutes it had just started to turn pink from etching.\ufffd The volume was at about 1/2 gallon and to this I added about 1/2 cup of HCL and left the board in for another 30 minutes with little change.\ufffd 
>>  
>>  I think I will now put a lot of copper wire in, at 40 C and let it run to see if it will "take off", as you put it. 
>>

Well mine is bright emerald and completely transparent...and not etching.
   

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 Refresher.

Small amount of Hydrogen peroxide.(optional)

Drop in a small piece pf copper and bubble away.

your looking for a dark green color.



This is an excellent write up... the best imho.

 http://members.optusnet.com.au/~eseychell/PCB/etching_CuCl/ 













 --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com , "Terry" <twgray2007@...> wrote:

>

> I have a question about CuCl etchant.  I mixed up a galon of the stuff using the standard off the pharmacy shelf H2O2 and HCl I normally use in my swimming pool.  It worked great in my etchant tank the first time, but I have been unable to get it working again.  I've added more H2O2 and HCl but to no avail.  The liquid is a nice transparent lime green.  Any suggestions on how to recharge the stuff?

> 

> 

> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com , Philip Pemberton <ygroups@> wrote:

> >

> > Right then, time for a quick update...

> > 

> > My CuCl etching bath seems to be well on its way. As of last night, it

> > was dark green in colour with white foam and looked like it had oxidised

> > as much as it was going to. I added the last few bits of copper wire

> > (which were left over from the startup attempt) and turned the air

> > bubbler back on.

> > 

> > This evening I found the liquid in the tank was completely opaque -

> > white with a hint of green. Almost like someone had dumped a bag of

> > plaster mix in there... Oh dear. This one isn't in the manual...

> > 

> > I don't have a hydrometer, so I can't check the specific gravity of the

> > solution. For bonus points, I'm still trying to track down some suitable

> > containers to do the titration test Adam Seychell describes on his webpage.

> > 

> > ... However the photos of the "you've added far too much NaOH" titration

> > looked oddly like the contents of my HCl+CuCl tank... which got me

> > wondering -- was the tank low on acid?

> > 

> > Turns out it was. I added a bit of acid (by the highly unscientific

> > "just add some with the bubbler on until it's not cloudy any more"

> > method) and the cloudiness vanished, leaving the green-black liquid I

> > had before.

> > 

> > It's now back on the air bubbler (and foaming like crazy), though given

> > the colour of the solution I think it may have already oxidised as it's

> > going to (although it went a heck of a lot brighter when I last threw in

> > some peroxide, though I'm all out of that at the moment).

> > 

> > -- 

> > Phil.

> > ygroups@

> > http://www.philpem.me.uk/ 

> >

>

OK, mine looks just like that but no etching.  As I said in the earlier post, I let it heat and bubble for about 24 hours with no joy, so I added an additional 1/3 Cup of HCL...Muriatic acid that I use in my pool.  
   

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 Forgot to mention.



here is what mine looked like. 

 http://thesn1per.blogspot.com/2013/06/diy-circuit-boards-tachometer.html 



The color you see is the result after about 1 hour of mixing with a small piece of coper

bubbling the entire time. I used no heat. Im in Florida the ambient temp is quite hot as it is.

I tried heat on previous times the results ere the same.

I will add as time goes on the mixture will become a darker shade of green.

I hope this helps.

Sam











 --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com , "thesn1per" <mail4sam@...> wrote:

>

> Pink? should be green or some shade of.

> Sam

> 

> Read this.

> http://members.optusnet.com.au/~eseychell/PCB/etching_CuCl/ 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com , <twgray2007@> wrote:

> >

> > OK, I tried bubbling air through the mixture for about 24 hours with no change.  I heated to about 40 C and placed a PCB in just to test and after about 25 minutes it had just started to turn pink from etching.  The volume was at about 1/2 gallon and to this I added about 1/2 cup of HCL and left the board in for another 30 minutes with little change.  

> >  

> >  I think I will now put a lot of copper wire in, at 40 C and let it run to see if it will "take off", as you put it. 

> >

>

To clarify, the board was turning pinkish, like it does if you wipe a plated board with FeCl, starting to etch. 
 

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 23:46:25 -0000, you wrote:



>Pink? should be green or some shade of.



Pink was the color of the copper, not the solution.



Harvey



>Sam

>

>Read this.

> http://members.optusnet.com.au/~eseychell/PCB/etching_CuCl/ 

>

>

>

>

>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com , <twgray2007@...> wrote:

>>

>> OK, I tried bubbling air through the mixture for about 24 hours with no change.  I heated to about 40 C and placed a PCB in just to test and after about 25 minutes it had just started to turn pink from etching.  The volume was at about 1/2 gallon and to this I added about 1/2 cup of HCL and left the board in for another 30 minutes with little change.  

>>  

>>  I think I will now put a lot of copper wire in, at 40 C and let it run to see if it will "take off", as you put it. 

>>

On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 23:51:48 -0000, you wrote:

>Forgot to mention.
>
>here is what mine looked like. 
>http://thesn1per.blogspot.com/2013/06/diy-circuit-boards-tachometer.html
>
>The color you see is the result after about 1 hour of mixing with a small piece of coper
>bubbling the entire time. I used no heat. Im in Florida the ambient temp is quite hot as it is.
>I tried heat on previous times the results ere the same.
>I will add as time goes on the mixture will become a darker shade of green.
>I hope this helps.

Hmmmm.  Ok.  As I first started it, peroxide and HCl, the mixture was
transparent and colorless.   Boards etched in about 6 minutes or so (I
did have air bubbling through and did heat the solution).

As the solution aged, it turned blue/green, not the same shade of
green you show here.

As it aged past that, it turned a dark green, almost opaque, a slight
shade of olive green.  

Air is used to bubble through the solution as it heats, and is used
continually as the solution etches.  I use heat anyway, and the
temperature is about 110 or so F, it could get to 120 but I'm not sure
you want it hotter than that.

I used the copper in the boards to make the CuCl etchant, no sense in
wasting the peroxide dissolving unwanted copper.

Not sure what the problem is with what you have, but the color seems
to be off.  You should get the standard blue copper sulfate kind of
color to start with.

With the olive solution (if it turns brown, it's off), adding peroxide
can change it to a blue transparent solution.

You near Orlando?

Harvey

>Sam
>
>
>
>
>
>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "thesn1per" <mail4sam@...> wrote:
>>
>> Pink? should be green or some shade of.
>> Sam
>> 
>> Read this.
>> http://members.optusnet.com.au/~eseychell/PCB/etching_CuCl/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <twgray2007@> wrote:
>> >
>> > OK, I tried bubbling air through the mixture for about 24 hours with no change.\ufffd I heated to about 40 C and placed a PCB in just to test and after about 25 minutes it had just started to turn pink from etching.\ufffd The volume was at about 1/2 gallon and to this I added about 1/2 cup of HCL and left the board in for another 30 minutes with little change.\ufffd 
>> >  
>> >  I think I will now put a lot of copper wire in, at 40 C and let it run to see if it will "take off", as you put it. 
>> >
>>

I myself have never used FeCl Im sure it works but Ive never tried it.
Seems to easy to get some off the shelf products and make your own.

I found the darker green it gets the faster it etches. I typicaly use 1 or 2 oz boards
and the time to etch is less than 13 mins. @ about 90f Fl heat 







On Sep 3, 2013, at 8:03 PM, <twgray2007@...> wrote:

> To clarify, the board was turning pinkish, like it does if you wipe a plated board with FeCl, starting to etch. 
> 
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 23:46:25 -0000, you wrote:
> 
> >Pink? should be green or some shade of.
> 
> Pink was the color of the copper, not the solution.
> 
> Harvey
> 
> >Sam
> 
> >
> 
> >Read this.
> 
> > http://members.optusnet.com.au/~eseychell/PCB/etching_CuCl/ 
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> >--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com , <twgray2007@...> wrote:
> 
> >>
> 
> >> OK, I tried bubbling air through the mixture for about 24 hours with no change.�  I heated to about 40 C and placed a PCB in just to test and after about 25 minutes it had just started to turn pink from etching.�  The volume was at about 1/2 gallon and to this I added about 1/2 cup of HCL and left the board in for another 30 minutes with little change.�  
> 
> >> 
> 
> >> I think I will now put a lot of copper wire in, at 40 C and let it run to see if it will "take off", as you put it. 
> 
> >>
> 
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Harvey,
I'm in Tampa
  looks like were almost neighbors. :)
Mine seems to settle in around olive green. Ive never seen any blue to speak of. 
my ingredients are: CVS or Walgreens Hydrogen peroxide, and good ole Home depot Muratic acid sold in 1 gallon jugs.
my results are always the same. I have heard of people getting etch times in  the sub 10 mins I have never had one etch that fast.
perhaps they are using  1/2 oz frp boards? 6 mins vs my 13 is about 1:2 ratio. 

My bubbler works extraordinarily well. my tank has the heat option but As i said earlier I get the same results either way.

I think the  weakest link with my setup is I have yet to find a way to hold the boards perfectly vertical so they etch the same on both sides
one side always etches faster than the other  (the side getting more bubbles)

Sam






On Sep 3, 2013, at 8:06 PM, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote:

> On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 23:51:48 -0000, you wrote:
> 
> >Forgot to mention.
> >
> >here is what mine looked like. 
> >http://thesn1per.blogspot.com/2013/06/diy-circuit-boards-tachometer.html
> >
> >The color you see is the result after about 1 hour of mixing with a small piece of coper
> >bubbling the entire time. I used no heat. Im in Florida the ambient temp is quite hot as it is.
> >I tried heat on previous times the results ere the same.
> >I will add as time goes on the mixture will become a darker shade of green.
> >I hope this helps.
> 
> Hmmmm. Ok. As I first started it, peroxide and HCl, the mixture was
> transparent and colorless. Boards etched in about 6 minutes or so (I
> did have air bubbling through and did heat the solution).
> 
> As the solution aged, it turned blue/green, not the same shade of
> green you show here.
> 
> As it aged past that, it turned a dark green, almost opaque, a slight
> shade of olive green. 
> 
> Air is used to bubble through the solution as it heats, and is used
> continually as the solution etches. I use heat anyway, and the
> temperature is about 110 or so F, it could get to 120 but I'm not sure
> you want it hotter than that.
> 
> I used the copper in the boards to make the CuCl etchant, no sense in
> wasting the peroxide dissolving unwanted copper.
> 
> Not sure what the problem is with what you have, but the color seems
> to be off. You should get the standard blue copper sulfate kind of
> color to start with.
> 
> With the olive solution (if it turns brown, it's off), adding peroxide
> can change it to a blue transparent solution.
> 
> You near Orlando?
> 
> Harvey
> 
> >Sam
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "thesn1per" <mail4sam@...> wrote:
> >>
> >> Pink? should be green or some shade of.
> >> Sam
> >> 
> >> Read this.
> >> http://members.optusnet.com.au/~eseychell/PCB/etching_CuCl/
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <twgray2007@> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > OK, I tried bubbling air through the mixture for about 24 hours with no change.  I heated to about 40 C and placed a PCB in just to test and after about 25 minutes it had just started to turn pink from etching.  The volume was at about 1/2 gallon and to this I added about 1/2 cup of HCL and left the board in for another 30 minutes with little change.  
> >> > 
> >> > I think I will now put a lot of copper wire in, at 40 C and let it run to see if it will "take off", as you put it. 
> >> >
> >>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Tue, 3 Sep 2013 20:32:13 -0400, you wrote:

>Harvey,
>I'm in Tampa
>  looks like were almost neighbors. :)

My Mother in Law lives in Sun City Center, we were down there
yesterday.

>Mine seems to settle in around olive green. Ive never seen any blue to speak of. 

The blue is as it is just starting off, once it's CuCl, it's olive.

>my ingredients are: CVS or Walgreens Hydrogen peroxide, and good ole Home depot Muratic acid sold in 1 gallon jugs.
>my results are always the same. I have heard of people getting etch times in  the sub 10 mins I have never had one etch that fast.
>perhaps they are using  1/2 oz frp boards? 6 mins vs my 13 is about 1:2 ratio. 

I think they are using the 1/2 oz boards rather than the 1 oz boards.
>
>My bubbler works extraordinarily well. my tank has the heat option but As i said earlier I get the same results either way.
>
>I think the  weakest link with my setup is I have yet to find a way to hold the boards perfectly vertical so they etch the same on both sides
>one side always etches faster than the other  (the side getting more bubbles)
>

That or you take the board out and rotate it 180 and put it back in. I
have top to bottom etch disparities depending on the bubbler (what do
you use for a distributor?  I use a piece of irrigation fitting
drilled to match, but it has to be level to work well).

Since  I only do single sided etching (and then epoxy the boards
together) I only worry about top to bottom.  It works better with
toner transfer, but I suspect you are using photosensitive material.
There are tricks to doing double sided toner transfer on a double
sided board, but the epoxy method works well enough for me.

try www.dragonworks.info  not been updated in years, but it shows a
few things.

Harvey

>Sam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On Sep 3, 2013, at 8:06 PM, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 23:51:48 -0000, you wrote:
>> 
>> >Forgot to mention.
>> >
>> >here is what mine looked like. 
>> >http://thesn1per.blogspot.com/2013/06/diy-circuit-boards-tachometer.html
>> >
>> >The color you see is the result after about 1 hour of mixing with a small piece of coper
>> >bubbling the entire time. I used no heat. Im in Florida the ambient temp is quite hot as it is.
>> >I tried heat on previous times the results ere the same.
>> >I will add as time goes on the mixture will become a darker shade of green.
>> >I hope this helps.
>> 
>> Hmmmm. Ok. As I first started it, peroxide and HCl, the mixture was
>> transparent and colorless. Boards etched in about 6 minutes or so (I
>> did have air bubbling through and did heat the solution).
>> 
>> As the solution aged, it turned blue/green, not the same shade of
>> green you show here.
>> 
>> As it aged past that, it turned a dark green, almost opaque, a slight
>> shade of olive green. 
>> 
>> Air is used to bubble through the solution as it heats, and is used
>> continually as the solution etches. I use heat anyway, and the
>> temperature is about 110 or so F, it could get to 120 but I'm not sure
>> you want it hotter than that.
>> 
>> I used the copper in the boards to make the CuCl etchant, no sense in
>> wasting the peroxide dissolving unwanted copper.
>> 
>> Not sure what the problem is with what you have, but the color seems
>> to be off. You should get the standard blue copper sulfate kind of
>> color to start with.
>> 
>> With the olive solution (if it turns brown, it's off), adding peroxide
>> can change it to a blue transparent solution.
>> 
>> You near Orlando?
>> 
>> Harvey
>> 
>> >Sam
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "thesn1per" <mail4sam@...> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Pink? should be green or some shade of.
>> >> Sam
>> >> 
>> >> Read this.
>> >> http://members.optusnet.com.au/~eseychell/PCB/etching_CuCl/
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <twgray2007@> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > OK, I tried bubbling air through the mixture for about 24 hours with no change.  I heated to about 40 C and placed a PCB in just to test and after about 25 minutes it had just started to turn pink from etching.  The volume was at about 1/2 gallon and to this I added about 1/2 cup of HCL and left the board in for another 30 minutes with little change.  
>> >> > 
>> >> > I think I will now put a lot of copper wire in, at 40 C and let it run to see if it will "take off", as you put it. 
>> >> >
>> >>
>> 
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

@HW
Ill take some detailed Pics of my etching tank. (I never got around to that part)
My tank (all acrylic) holds the boards just about vertical with the exception that their needed to be at least a small amount of clearance so the parts that were covered up could get properly etched. this is where the challenge is. how does one hold a board perfectly vertical while simultaneously not obstructing/blocking agitation/bubbling. 

My boards kind of float from one vertical position to another. I would say 3 degrees max.
 But to answer your question directly. I use a double foam airiator. One on each side of the board. The microbubbles are astounding. The pump I use is a left over pump from some long forgotten project.

Most of my tank design was gathered from internet intel. others pros cons etc...
I tried to use all of what I thought were the best ideas.

My preferred method is toner transfer. Most of my projects end up being double sided.
While I could use a CnC machine to do the entire board. I feel the etching makes for a board in the long run. but I do print/transfer/etch both sides simultaneously . I have never tried the photo method. If I did single sided boards this would not even be an issue.
All my project boards start out as 1oz per side boards. which is why I suspect my times are double some of the fastest times posted. I could say their equivalent times for the material being removed. :)



Sam 





--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote:

>
> On Tue, 3 Sep 2013 20:32:13 -0400, you wrote:
> 
> >Harvey,
> >I'm in Tampa
> >  looks like were almost neighbors. :)
> 
> My Mother in Law lives in Sun City Center, we were down there
> yesterday.
> 
> >Mine seems to settle in around olive green. Ive never seen any blue to speak of. 
> 
> The blue is as it is just starting off, once it's CuCl, it's olive.
> 
> >my ingredients are: CVS or Walgreens Hydrogen peroxide, and good ole Home depot Muratic acid sold in 1 gallon jugs.
> >my results are always the same. I have heard of people getting etch times in  the sub 10 mins I have never had one etch that fast.
> >perhaps they are using  1/2 oz frp boards? 6 mins vs my 13 is about 1:2 ratio. 
> 
> I think they are using the 1/2 oz boards rather than the 1 oz boards.
> >
> >My bubbler works extraordinarily well. my tank has the heat option but As i said earlier I get the same results either way.
> >
> >I think the  weakest link with my setup is I have yet to find a way to hold the boards perfectly vertical so they etch the same on both sides
> >one side always etches faster than the other  (the side getting more bubbles)
> >
> 
> That or you take the board out and rotate it 180 and put it back in. I
> have top to bottom etch disparities depending on the bubbler (what do
> you use for a distributor?  I use a piece of irrigation fitting
> drilled to match, but it has to be level to work well).
> 
> Since  I only do single sided etching (and then epoxy the boards
> together) I only worry about top to bottom.  It works better with
> toner transfer, but I suspect you are using photosensitive material.
> There are tricks to doing double sided toner transfer on a double
> sided board, but the epoxy method works well enough for me.
> 
> try www.dragonworks.info  not been updated in years, but it shows a
> few things.
> 
> Harvey
> 
> >Sam
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >On Sep 3, 2013, at 8:06 PM, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 23:51:48 -0000, you wrote:
> >> 
> >> >Forgot to mention.
> >> >
> >> >here is what mine looked like. 
> >> >http://thesn1per.blogspot.com/2013/06/diy-circuit-boards-tachometer.html
> >> >
> >> >The color you see is the result after about 1 hour of mixing with a small piece of coper
> >> >bubbling the entire time. I used no heat. Im in Florida the ambient temp is quite hot as it is.
> >> >I tried heat on previous times the results ere the same.
> >> >I will add as time goes on the mixture will become a darker shade of green.
> >> >I hope this helps.
> >> 
> >> Hmmmm. Ok. As I first started it, peroxide and HCl, the mixture was
> >> transparent and colorless. Boards etched in about 6 minutes or so (I
> >> did have air bubbling through and did heat the solution).
> >> 
> >> As the solution aged, it turned blue/green, not the same shade of
> >> green you show here.
> >> 
> >> As it aged past that, it turned a dark green, almost opaque, a slight
> >> shade of olive green. 
> >> 
> >> Air is used to bubble through the solution as it heats, and is used
> >> continually as the solution etches. I use heat anyway, and the
> >> temperature is about 110 or so F, it could get to 120 but I'm not sure
> >> you want it hotter than that.
> >> 
> >> I used the copper in the boards to make the CuCl etchant, no sense in
> >> wasting the peroxide dissolving unwanted copper.
> >> 
> >> Not sure what the problem is with what you have, but the color seems
> >> to be off. You should get the standard blue copper sulfate kind of
> >> color to start with.
> >> 
> >> With the olive solution (if it turns brown, it's off), adding peroxide
> >> can change it to a blue transparent solution.
> >> 
> >> You near Orlando?
> >> 
> >> Harvey
> >> 
> >> >Sam
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "thesn1per" <mail4sam@> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Pink? should be green or some shade of.
> >> >> Sam
> >> >> 
> >> >> Read this.
> >> >> http://members.optusnet.com.au/~eseychell/PCB/etching_CuCl/
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <twgray2007@> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > OK, I tried bubbling air through the mixture for about 24 hours with no change.  I heated to about 40 C and placed a PCB in just to test and after about 25 minutes it had just started to turn pink from etching.  The volume was at about 1/2 gallon and to this I added about 1/2 cup of HCL and left the board in for another 30 minutes with little change.  
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > I think I will now put a lot of copper wire in, at 40 C and let it run to see if it will "take off", as you put it. 
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> 
> >
> >
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >
> >Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

I left mine bubbling over the winter. It is now a dark green and very opaque. On the other hand, I have not etched a new board in quite some time, so I don't know if it has gotten better or worse. But before I left it bubbling, the fresh hydrogen peroxide and hydrochloric acid solution, even after heating in the microwave, was still very slow. 
 Mike

Curious When you say slow.
How long is that?

from what I gather I would say 1/2oz per 5-10 mins is about the average.
depending on factors like. agitation, bubbles,heat and the CuCl level.
 
You could always drop a test piece (1/2x1/2 pcb) in and time it. when done stick it along with the notes about its times and particulars. this way you can have some way of knowing what to expect in the future. 

I do feel obligated to ask. when you said 
"> I left mine bubbling over the winter. "
how long was that really for? Ive never left mine bubbling for more than an hour ... ever.
(the 1 hour period was a stress test and break in)
Sam

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <mbushroe@...> wrote:

>
> I left mine bubbling over the winter. It is now a dark green and very opaque. On the other hand, I have not etched a new board in quite some time, so I don't know if it has gotten better or worse. But before I left it bubbling, the fresh hydrogen peroxide and hydrochloric acid solution, even after heating in the microwave, was still very slow. 
>  Mike
>

  

>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 >Curious When you say slow.

>How long is that?


Almost a gallon of solution, with a small aquarium bubbler,24/7 for 6-8 months.


>from what I gather I would say 1/2oz per 5-10 mins is about the average.

>depending on factors like. agitation, bubbles,heat and the CuCl level.

 
I think more like 3- 45 minutes for 1/2 ounce copper, agitated by hand.

I have not kept close watch on the solution for a long time, I don't know if it has 'aged' well in CuCl, or just spent itself on contaminants. Yes, I reed to run a test sample soon to find out how it currently works.OR maybe through another 50 - 100 grams of copper in there to let it chew onKE

You could always drop a test piece (1/2x1/2 pcb) in and time it. when done stick it along with the notes about its times and particulars. this way you can have some way of knowing what to expect in the future. 



I do feel obligated to ask. when you said 

"> I left mine bubbling over the winter. "

how long was that really for? Ive never left mine bubbling for more than an hour ... ever.

(the 1 hour period was a stress test and break in)

Sam



 --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com , <mbushroe@...> wrote:

>

> I left mine bubbling over the winter. It is now a dark green and very opaque. On the other hand, I have not etched a new board in quite some time, so I don't know if it has gotten better or worse. But before I left it bubbling, the fresh hydrogen peroxide and hydrochloric acid solution, even after heating in the microwave, was still very slow. 

>  Mike

>

All,
I posted up some pics of my tank broken down and assembled with and with out boards.
their are quite a few pics hard to take pics of clear plastic.

http://thesn1per.blogspot.com/2012/11/etching-tank-update-110812.html

Feel free to ask away but it should be pretty self evident.

Sam

Sam -

 

Everything looks quite straightforward, except the heater.  It looks like it
is completely immersed, cord and all, in the tank.  Am I seeing this right?
The heater is that water/etchant proof?

 

Andy

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of thesn1per
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 12:36 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: CuCl etchant - an update

 

  

All,
I posted up some pics of my tank broken down and assembled with and with out
boards.
their are quite a few pics hard to take pics of clear plastic.

http://thesn1per.blogspot.com/2012/11/etching-tank-update-110812.html

Feel free to ask away but it should be pretty self evident.

Sam

Sam -

 

Thanks for the reply.  So you are saying that standard drip irrigation
system components will be eaten by the CuCl etchant?

 

Andy

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Sam Rod
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 7:22 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] CuCl etchant - an update

 

  

Andy,

Their was no for me to know un less I did a stress test. 

I was hoping i would no have to build some elaborate heater so I chose

to submerge the heater un powered for an hour and then check the plastic
fittings.

 

the fittings showed abso no wear or degradation. the final test was to test
with heat. 

which I did several times. I will report though for me the heat did'nt seem
to make 

any noticeable difference. That being said any further etches I have run
with no heater installed 

less parts less chance of error.

 

Had it made some difference I might have even just bubbled the parts
outdoors in the sun light.

Still not using the heater.

I mentioned earlier Im in Fl. their is no shortage of free heat here.

 

 

Last thing. In previous test I had many failures with alot of the plastic
fittings. even wire ties.

they would dissolve 100%. I ended up redesigning so no wire ties are even
needed 

and for the fittings I special ordered some PVDC based ones. All the other
ones I tried failed.

including my drain elbow. 

 

Having a chem spill is the 2nd from the last thing one needs/wants.  In all
of my research I find

it amazing not many people mention the incompatible plastic factor.

 

Ill add a close up video of the bubbler in action with some water and dye it
truly works magnificent .

 

Sam






 

On Sep 6, 2013, at 9:24 PM, Andrew Volk <amvweb@...> wrote:





  

 

Sam -

 

Everything looks quite straightforward, except the heater.  It looks like it
is completely immersed, cord and all, in the tank.  Am I seeing this right?
The heater is that water/etchant proof?

 

Andy

 

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of thesn1per
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 12:36 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: CuCl etchant - an update

 

  

All,
I posted up some pics of my tank broken down and assembled with and with out
boards.
their are quite a few pics hard to take pics of clear plastic.

http://thesn1per.blogspot.com/2012/11/etching-tank-update-110812.html

Feel free to ask away but it should be pretty self evident.

Sam

I tried this household chemical mixture, it works, but a lot slower.
Did not try heating or bubbler, only slight mechanical agitation.
Source: http://lowpowerlab.com/blog/2012/12/15/cheap-pcb-etching-with-vinegar/#more-1 

"The mix is about 60% vinegar and 40% hydrogen peroxide, with a good shake of regular salt (I use kosher pure salt which has larger crystals but will dissolve quickly and I get the impression is more effective than ionized salt but I could be wrong here."

After reading it, like dah, peroxy sulfuric etchant (vinegar is an acid-replacement for the sulfuric acid use in PCB etching operations).
In a small volume, the activity decreased rapidly, so changed the bath a few times, took about 45 minutes for a 1" x 2" with 1/2 oz cu. single sided.  Vinegar also etches rust from metal very nicely, just don't leave too long or the metal will be severely etched too.

See also in this group:
Etching with sulfuric acid and hydrogen peroxide 	
#1506 Posted By: 	

    twb8899       Send Email 	Thu Apr 17, 2003 8:54 am

Also review: http://www.instructables.com/id/Stop-using-Ferric-Chloride-etchant!--A-better-etc/


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Sam Rod <mail4sam@...> wrote:

>
> Mike,
> Could I suggest. if you plan on making any more boards in the near future.
> I would still suggest doing a test piece.
> But in parallel I would also mix up a new small batch. and run the test side by side.
>  
> you said 
> "Almost a gallon of solution, with a small aquarium bubbler,24/7 for 6-8 months."
> 
> my hats off to you. You have some determination!
> 
> another suggestion. perhaps use your small aquarium bubbler to do the so called agitation.
> Im guessing even by hand you should see results in the 10-20 min range as a worse case scenario.
> for 1/2oz material.
> 
> Best
> Sam
> 
> 
> On Sep 4, 2013, at 3:14 AM, mbushroe@... wrote:
> 
> >   
> > 
> > >--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> > 
> > >Curious When you say slow.
> > 
> > >How long is that?
> > 
> > Almost a gallon of solution, with a small aquarium bubbler,24/7 for 6-8 months.
> > 
> > >from what I gather I would say 1/2oz per 5-10 mins is about the average.
> > 
> > >depending on factors like. agitation, bubbles,heat and the CuCl level.
> > 
> > I think more like 3- 45 minutes for 1/2 ounce copper, agitated by hand.
> > 
> > I have not kept close watch on the solution for a long time, I don't know if it has 'aged' well in CuCl, or just spent itself on contaminants. Yes, I reed to run a test sample soon to find out how it currently works.OR maybe through another 50 - 100 grams of copper in there to let it chew onKE
> > 
> > You could always drop a test piece (1/2x1/2 pcb) in and time it. when done stick it along with the notes about its times and particulars. this way you can have some way of knowing what to expect in the future. 
> > 
> > I do feel obligated to ask. when you said 
> > 
> > "> I left mine bubbling over the winter. "
> > 
> > how long was that really for? Ive never left mine bubbling for more than an hour ... ever.
> > 
> > (the 1 hour period was a stress test and break in)
> > 
> > Sam
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com , <mbushroe@> wrote:
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > I left mine bubbling over the winter. It is now a dark green and very opaque. On the other hand, I have not etched a new board in quite some time, so I don't know if it has gotten better or worse. But before I left it bubbling, the fresh hydrogen peroxide and hydrochloric acid solution, even after heating in the microwave, was still very slow. 
> > 
> > > Mike
> > 
> > >
> > 
> >
>