Homebrew_PCBs

I recently noticed some videos and pages talking about using shelving
vinyl for toner transfer. I used to have a Brother laser printer[1] and
plan to get another one. Last time I tried toner transfer with this
printer, it turned out terrible. Turns out that Brother toner isn't very
good for Pulsar or Press-n-Peel. Does anyone here know if Brother toner
can be used for doing toner transfer with vinyl as a medium? This will
determine my choice for the next printer I get.

--
David Griffith
dgriffi@...

A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

I just bought some and tried it with my Brother printer and it tanked.
The toner stuck to the vinyl same as it does to paper.
I guess Brother sucks for TT.

PS- I ALWAYS "top-post" because I hate scanning down a page of old news
looking for the latest message. If I don't see it at the top I usually don't
even bother with it. The problem is not "top-posting", its failing to delete
the old text. Besides, its MY message. I'll post it however I freakin' want!
--
Phil M.

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Griffith" <dgriffi@...>
To: "Homebrew PCB List" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 12:23 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] shelving vinyl toner transfer


>
> I recently noticed some videos and pages talking about using shelving
> vinyl for toner transfer. I used to have a Brother laser printer[1] and
> plan to get another one. Last time I tried toner transfer with this
> printer, it turned out terrible. Turns out that Brother toner isn't very
> good for Pulsar or Press-n-Peel. Does anyone here know if Brother toner
> can be used for doing toner transfer with vinyl as a medium? This will
> determine my choice for the next printer I get.
>
> --
> David Griffith
> dgriffi@...
>
> A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> A: Top-posting.
> Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
>
>

Also, the whole issue with top posting is dumb, because if everyone used a
modern threading email reader, you can always open up all the old messages
above the current one anyways if you really want the old messages above. In
a threading email program, bottom posting is a real PIA </troll mode>

On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 5:26 PM, Phil@Yahoo <yahoo@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> I just bought some and tried it with my Brother printer and it tanked.
> The toner stuck to the vinyl same as it does to paper.
> I guess Brother sucks for TT.
>
> PS- I ALWAYS "top-post" because I hate scanning down a page of old news
> looking for the latest message. If I don't see it at the top I usually
> don't
> even bother with it. The problem is not "top-posting", its failing to
> delete
> the old text. Besides, its MY message. I'll post it however I freakin'
> want!
> --
> Phil M.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Griffith" <dgriffi@...>
> To: "Homebrew PCB List" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 12:23 PM
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] shelving vinyl toner transfer
>
> >
> > I recently noticed some videos and pages talking about using shelving
> > vinyl for toner transfer. I used to have a Brother laser printer[1] and
> > plan to get another one. Last time I tried toner transfer with this
> > printer, it turned out terrible. Turns out that Brother toner isn't very
> > good for Pulsar or Press-n-Peel. Does anyone here know if Brother toner
> > can be used for doing toner transfer with vinyl as a medium? This will
> > determine my choice for the next printer I get.
> >
> > --
> > David Griffith
> > dgriffi@...
> >
> > A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
> > Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> > A: Top-posting.
> > Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
> >
> >
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have not heard many good things about (recent) Brother lasers for TT on here either. I think the main problem is they have a higher melting point on their toner, which is likely due to it having a different composition, which probably doesn't help either.

For the record, anything other than "top-posting" makes no sense to me either, in my opinion.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil@..." <yahoo@...> wrote:
>
> I just bought some and tried it with my Brother printer and it tanked.
> The toner stuck to the vinyl same as it does to paper.
> I guess Brother sucks for TT.
>
> PS- I ALWAYS "top-post" because I hate scanning down a page of old news
> looking for the latest message. If I don't see it at the top I usually don't
> even bother with it. The problem is not "top-posting", its failing to delete
> the old text. Besides, its MY message. I'll post it however I freakin' want!
> --
> Phil M.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Griffith" <dgriffi@...>
> To: "Homebrew PCB List" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 12:23 PM
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] shelving vinyl toner transfer
>
>
> >
> > I recently noticed some videos and pages talking about using shelving
> > vinyl for toner transfer. I used to have a Brother laser printer[1] and
> > plan to get another one. Last time I tried toner transfer with this
> > printer, it turned out terrible. Turns out that Brother toner isn't very
> > good for Pulsar or Press-n-Peel. Does anyone here know if Brother toner
> > can be used for doing toner transfer with vinyl as a medium? This will
> > determine my choice for the next printer I get.
> >
> > --
> > David Griffith
> > dgriffi@...
> >
> > A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
> > Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> > A: Top-posting.
> > Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
> >
> >
>

I have brother lasers and I'm sure I did successfully use them for tonor
transfer (but possibly it was an OKI), using contact adhesive book
covering (polyproplene)... but with very varied results. Frankly, a lot
more variable than I could be bothered with. Photoresist works much
better.

The roll of book covering didn't go to waste though, when I print my
artwork onto the tracing paper, I immediately stick a piece of the book
covering over it before I do anything else, otherwise the tonor is too
easily damaged on the tracing paper (especially when trying to align
duplicate prints).

> Andrew Hakman wrote:

Pah, top posting, bottom > Also, the whole issue with top
posting, both are old hat > posting is dumb, because if every
I advocate SIDE POSTING > one used a modern threading email

Let the debate about left or right side posting begin!

I've had very good results using the quilting dissolve-able stabilizer made
by Sulky. The medium weight works best. It is corn starch based and worked
really well for me in my both my brother and hp printers. Just print the
layout on it and then iron it on the pcb, wash away the stabilizer and then
etch. This method has worked better for me than any other except direct
printing on the pcb and photo.



--
If you ask me if it can be done. The answer is YES, it can always be done.
The correct questions however are... What will it cost, and how long will
it take?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have used a Brother HL-4040CDN for TT successfully a few times (even had some 8mil traces routed between pads of an SOIC-8). Some of the traces were a little wavy on the longest stretches, but seemed to work.
I printed a few patterns since I knew the first few attempts would fail.

I only did a few boards and then found A6 sheets of photoresist for $0.30ea. I now use the photoresist for etching and the soldermask. Its more expensive than a $5 roll of shelf liner, but the success rate is nearly 100%.

--Tim

Tim! what is the source of the A6 sheets of photoresist?
Curious in Charlotte
Clark Cone

On Wed, Jun 5, 2013 at 9:27 PM, timgmorris@... <timgmorris@...>wrote:

> **
>
>
> I have used a Brother HL-4040CDN for TT successfully a few times (even had
> some 8mil traces routed between pads of an SOIC-8). Some of the traces were
> a little wavy on the longest stretches, but seemed to work.
> I printed a few patterns since I knew the first few attempts would fail.
>
> I only did a few boards and then found A6 sheets of photoresist for
> $0.30ea. I now use the photoresist for etching and the soldermask. Its more
> expensive than a $5 roll of shelf liner, but the success rate is nearly
> 100%.
>
> --Tim
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorry, haven't checked the list in a while. My source for the photoresist was http://www.digole.com/index.php?productID=228

The web store appears to be Canadian but the products come from China, so shipping can be anywhere from a week to a month.

It's a negative photoresist, so you need to invert the output of EagleCAD. I use Arm & Hammer Super Washing Soda as the developer (1/2tsp per 1C of water). I also use this resist as the solder mask, which works quite well.

Some pics:
http://www.timtilities.com/index.php/electronics-menu/101-panel-2-pcb

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Misc Clark <clark.cone4@...> wrote:
>
> Tim! what is the source of the A6 sheets of photoresist?
> Curious in Charlotte
> Clark Cone
>

What technique did you use to prepare the solder mask?

Shannon

On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 2:19 PM, timgmorris@... <timgmorris@...>wrote:

> **
>
>
> Sorry, haven't checked the list in a while. My source for the photoresist
> was http://www.digole.com/index.php?productID=228
>
> The web store appears to be Canadian but the products come from China, so
> shipping can be anywhere from a week to a month.
>
> It's a negative photoresist, so you need to invert the output of EagleCAD.
> I use Arm & Hammer Super Washing Soda as the developer (1/2tsp per 1C of
> water). I also use this resist as the solder mask, which works quite well.
>
> Some pics:
> http://www.timtilities.com/index.php/electronics-menu/101-panel-2-pcb
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Misc Clark <clark.cone4@...> wrote:
> >
> > Tim! what is the source of the A6 sheets of photoresist?
> > Curious in Charlotte
> > Clark Cone
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Shannon, this one look easy

http://www.instructables.com/id/Professional-Home-Brew-PCB-Creating-a-solder-mask/?ALLSTEPS

the secret is the UV paint.



On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 3:12 PM, Shannon Haworth
<shannon.haworth@...> wrote:

> What technique did you use to prepare the solder mask?
>
> Shannon
>
> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 2:19 PM, timgmorris@... <timgmorris@...>wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>> Sorry, haven't checked the list in a while. My source for the photoresist
>> was http://www.digole.com/index.php?productID=228
>>
>> The web store appears to be Canadian but the products come from China, so
>> shipping can be anywhere from a week to a month.
>>
>> It's a negative photoresist, so you need to invert the output of EagleCAD.
>> I use Arm & Hammer Super Washing Soda as the developer (1/2tsp per 1C of
>> water). I also use this resist as the solder mask, which works quite well.
>>
>> Some pics:
>> http://www.timtilities.com/index.php/electronics-menu/101-panel-2-pcb
>>
>>
>> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Misc Clark <clark.cone4@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Tim! what is the source of the A6 sheets of photoresist?
>> > Curious in Charlotte
>> > Clark Cone
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Gustavo Villada wrote:

>
>
> http://www.instructables.com/id/Professional-Home-Brew-PCB-Creating-a-solder-mask/?ALLSTEPS
> the secret is the UV paint.
>

Make sure you read the comments on that instructables. The guy who
wrote the instructions advocates drying the paint first, in short, he's
doing it wrong.

Also, cellophane bags are good for the plastic covering (at least true
cellophane). Some plastics are no good as the ink bonds to them just as
well as to the board.

Spread ink thinly, too thick and it doesn't cure to the bottom.

Exposure time is long (25-30 minutes), although a short exposure during
your initial experimentinng will be strong enough to see how it went but
easier to clean off and re-use your test piece.

After cleaning off the pads, give the board another healthy dose of UV
to really be sure that it's cooked to perfection.

Correct. I find that document protectors or most clear vinyl products make a
nice glossy finish and don't stick. Anything made from acetate will stick.
No need to let it dry (that's what the UV is for). I use xylene or denatured
alcohol to clean off the unexposed residue. I don't think it could be
properly classified as paint. It's more like varnish. It has tint, not
pigment.
--
Phil M.

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Sleeman" <bitsyboffin@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2013 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: shelving vinyl toner transfer


> Gustavo Villada wrote:
>>
>>
>> http://www.instructables.com/id/Professional-Home-Brew-PCB-Creating-a-solder-mask/?ALLSTEPS
>> the secret is the UV paint.
>>
>
> Make sure you read the comments on that instructables. The guy who
> wrote the instructions advocates drying the paint first, in short, he's
> doing it wrong.
>
> Also, cellophane bags are good for the plastic covering (at least true
> cellophane). Some plastics are no good as the ink bonds to them just as
> well as to the board.
>
> Spread ink thinly, too thick and it doesn't cure to the bottom.
>
> Exposure time is long (25-30 minutes), although a short exposure during
> your initial experimentinng will be strong enough to see how it went but
> easier to clean off and re-use your test piece.
>
> After cleaning off the pads, give the board another healthy dose of UV
> to really be sure that it's cooked to perfection.
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Exactly the same as the initial photoresist method used for the traces. I use another sheet of photoresist (from Digole).

Print the pad/cream layers from eagle along with any text you want to show on board. Expose and develop, then bake in the over/toaster on 200F for 10 minutes (or so...). Don't quote me on the temp/time, I read it online and it seems to work. If all the text resides over a copper plane, then simply tinning it with LiquidTin will make the text very readable. If not, you can use a WHITE crayon and hot-air gun/hair dryer to melt wax into the text depressions. Colors don't seem to work very well for me.

I have NO idea what chemicals/fumes this releases in the oven, so you may not want to use your main appliances for it without a little more research.

For a thicker solder mask, you could use 2 layers of photoresist (removing protective films in between) and expose for somewhat longer than usual. (I've only used one layer, so i don't know how well that works)

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Shannon Haworth <shannon.haworth@...> wrote:
>
> What technique did you use to prepare the solder mask?
>
> Shannon

I am thinking of giving this a try. Could you clarify about the Arm & Hammer Super Washing Soda mixture? Is that 1/2tsp per 1 Cup of water?

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "timgmorris@..." <timgmorris@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry, haven't checked the list in a while. My source for the photoresist was http://www.digole.com/index.php?productID=228
>
> The web store appears to be Canadian but the products come from China, so shipping can be anywhere from a week to a month.
>
> It's a negative photoresist, so you need to invert the output of EagleCAD. I use Arm & Hammer Super Washing Soda as the developer (1/2tsp per 1C of water). I also use this resist as the solder mask, which works quite well.
>
> Some pics:
> http://www.timtilities.com/index.php/electronics-menu/101-panel-2-pcb
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Misc Clark <clark.cone4@> wrote:
> >
> > Tim! what is the source of the A6 sheets of photoresist?
> > Curious in Charlotte
> > Clark Cone
> >
>

Correct, 1/2 Teaspoon Super Washing Soda (Sodium Carbonate) in 8oz
(1Cup) of warm water. I usually brush very lightly with a foam brush
while developing to keep the solution moving. If you use a decent ground
plane it should take 3 to 5 minutes. A board with no plane will take
longer, since there is more resist to strip. You can over-develop the
board if you leave it in too long (or use too much soda), so plan on
practicing with a few sheets of resist before trying something
intricate.

When you're done etching the board (using whatever method you want),
just throw the board back in the solution for a few hours and the resist
should fall right off.
** I have not used any other type of resist than what I mentioned
earlier (from Digole), so I do not know if this works for other brands.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Terry" wrote:
>
> I am thinking of giving this a try. Could you clarify about the Arm &
Hammer Super Washing Soda mixture? Is that 1/2tsp per 1 Cup of water?
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

So, to clarify, are you saying to spread the ink on the board, then cover with cellophane? Then while still wet, place the mask and expose?

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, James Sleeman <bitsyboffin@...> wrote:
>
> Gustavo Villada wrote:
> >
> >
> > http://www.instructables.com/id/Professional-Home-Brew-PCB-Creating-a-solder-mask/?ALLSTEPS
> > the secret is the UV paint.
> >
>
> Make sure you read the comments on that instructables. The guy who
> wrote the instructions advocates drying the paint first, in short, he's
> doing it wrong.
>
> Also, cellophane bags are good for the plastic covering (at least true
> cellophane). Some plastics are no good as the ink bonds to them just as
> well as to the board.
>
> Spread ink thinly, too thick and it doesn't cure to the bottom.
>
> Exposure time is long (25-30 minutes), although a short exposure during
> your initial experimentinng will be strong enough to see how it went but
> easier to clean off and re-use your test piece.
>
> After cleaning off the pads, give the board another healthy dose of UV
> to really be sure that it's cooked to perfection.
>

On 29/06/13 14:47, Terry wrote:

>
> So, to clarify, are you saying to spread the ink on the board, then
> cover with cellophane? Then while still wet, place the mask and expose?
> .
>
>
>

Yes that's correct.

Thin layer of the ink (paint, whatever you want to call it), cover it
(still wet) with your cellophane (or other suitable plastic which
works), put your artwork against the cellophane, expose for XX minutes,
remove artwork, peel off cellophane. The unexposed areas (black in your
artwork) will be wet and simply wipe clean, the exposed areas will be
cured hard like epoxy.

The ink is cured (dried and hardened) by UV, drying it any other way is
virtually impossible, and just makes it really hard to remove the
unexposed areas afterwards.

The cellophane (whatever) covering serves two purposes, one it keeps the
ink off your artwork, and two it seals the ink against air while you are
exposing it - air inhibits curing.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 12:45 AM, James <bitsyboffin@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> On 29/06/13 14:47, Terry wrote:
> >
> > So, to clarify, are you saying to spread the ink on the board, then
> > cover with cellophane? Then while still wet, place the mask and expose?
> > .
> >
> >
> >
>
> Yes that's correct.
>
> Thin layer of the ink (paint, whatever you want to call it), cover it
> (still wet) with your cellophane (or other suitable plastic which
> works), put your artwork against the cellophane, expose for XX minutes,
> remove artwork, peel off cellophane. The unexposed areas (black in your
> artwork) will be wet and simply wipe clean, the exposed areas will be
> cured hard like epoxy.
>
> The ink is cured (dried and hardened) by UV, drying it any other way is
> virtually impossible, and just makes it really hard to remove the
> unexposed areas afterwards.
>
> The cellophane (whatever) covering serves two purposes, one it keeps the
> ink off your artwork, and two it seals the ink against air while you are
> exposing it - air inhibits curing.
>
>

I test today and work fine, but I'll need to buy a couple of UV tubes since
this winter is raining a lot :(


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

One other thing to think about. Any bubbles in the ink will harden into
surface imperfections, so you should smooth out any bubbles before exposing.
Really thin plastic will leave a lot of wrinkles in the surface. If you use
relatively stiff plastic with a glossy finish you can get a very smooth
finish on your board. I use a small piece of tubing to roll out the bubbles
and even out the coverage. I can get fairly nice results pretty
consistently. Like glass.
--
Phil M.

----- Original Message -----
From: "James" <bitsyboffin@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: shelving vinyl toner transfer


> On 29/06/13 14:47, Terry wrote:
>>
>> So, to clarify, are you saying to spread the ink on the board, then
>> cover with cellophane? Then while still wet, place the mask and expose?
>> .
>>
>>
>>
>
> Yes that's correct.
>
> Thin layer of the ink (paint, whatever you want to call it), cover it
> (still wet) with your cellophane (or other suitable plastic which
> works), put your artwork against the cellophane, expose for XX minutes,
> remove artwork, peel off cellophane. The unexposed areas (black in your
> artwork) will be wet and simply wipe clean, the exposed areas will be
> cured hard like epoxy.
>
> The ink is cured (dried and hardened) by UV, drying it any other way is
> virtually impossible, and just makes it really hard to remove the
> unexposed areas afterwards.
>
> The cellophane (whatever) covering serves two purposes, one it keeps the
> ink off your artwork, and two it seals the ink against air while you are
> exposing it - air inhibits curing.
>
>
>

RE: the ink that is used for PCBs...does it have a long shelf life?
It reminds me of the ink that is used to make silk-screens
for tee shirts and the like.

Thanks,
Charlie

On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 12:40:52 -0300 Gustavo Villada <villada@...>
writes:

On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 12:45 AM, James <bitsyboffin@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> On 29/06/13 14:47, Terry wrote:
> >
> > So, to clarify, are you saying to spread the ink on the board, then
> > cover with cellophane? Then while still wet, place the mask and
expose?
> > .
> >
> >
> >
>
> Yes that's correct.
>
> Thin layer of the ink (paint, whatever you want to call it), cover it
> (still wet) with your cellophane (or other suitable plastic which
> works), put your artwork against the cellophane, expose for XX minutes,
> remove artwork, peel off cellophane. The unexposed areas (black in your
> artwork) will be wet and simply wipe clean, the exposed areas will be
> cured hard like epoxy.
>
> The ink is cured (dried and hardened) by UV, drying it any other way is
> virtually impossible, and just makes it really hard to remove the
> unexposed areas afterwards.
>
> The cellophane (whatever) covering serves two purposes, one it keeps
the
> ink off your artwork, and two it seals the ink against air while you
are
> exposing it - air inhibits curing.
>
>
I test today and work fine, but I'll need to buy a couple of UV tubes
since
this winter is raining a lot :(

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Power-5w-uv-led-chip-395nm-Factory-price-ROHS-/221247492077?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item338360cfed


will 395nm uv do it? What is the specd wavelength for the resist?
 






________________________________
From: Gustavo Villada <villada@...>
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: shelving vinyl toner transfer



 

On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 12:45 AM, James <bitsyboffin@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> On 29/06/13 14:47, Terry wrote:
> >
> > So, to clarify, are you saying to spread the ink on the board, then
> > cover with cellophane? Then while still wet, place the mask and expose?
> > .
> >
> >
> >
>
> Yes that's correct.
>
> Thin layer of the ink (paint, whatever you want to call it), cover it
> (still wet) with your cellophane (or other suitable plastic which
> works), put your artwork against the cellophane, expose for XX minutes,
> remove artwork, peel off cellophane. The unexposed areas (black in your
> artwork) will be wet and simply wipe clean, the exposed areas will be
> cured hard like epoxy.
>
> The ink is cured (dried and hardened) by UV, drying it any other way is
> virtually impossible, and just makes it really hard to remove the
> unexposed areas afterwards.
>
> The cellophane (whatever) covering serves two purposes, one it keeps the
> ink off your artwork, and two it seals the ink against air while you are
> exposing it - air inhibits curing.
>
>
I test today and work fine, but I'll need to buy a couple of UV tubes since
this winter is raining a lot :(

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Exactly what plastic are you using to cover the ink/paint?

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, James <bitsyboffin@...> wrote:
>
> On 29/06/13 14:47, Terry wrote:
> >
> > So, to clarify, are you saying to spread the ink on the board, then
> > cover with cellophane? Then while still wet, place the mask and expose?
> > .
> >
> >
> >
>
> Yes that's correct.
>
> Thin layer of the ink (paint, whatever you want to call it), cover it
> (still wet) with your cellophane (or other suitable plastic which
> works), put your artwork against the cellophane, expose for XX minutes,
> remove artwork, peel off cellophane. The unexposed areas (black in your
> artwork) will be wet and simply wipe clean, the exposed areas will be
> cured hard like epoxy.
>
> The ink is cured (dried and hardened) by UV, drying it any other way is
> virtually impossible, and just makes it really hard to remove the
> unexposed areas afterwards.
>
> The cellophane (whatever) covering serves two purposes, one it keeps the
> ink off your artwork, and two it seals the ink against air while you are
> exposing it - air inhibits curing.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

On 30/06/13 11:43, Terry wrote:

>
> Exactly what plastic are you using to cover the ink/paint?.
>

Good question. I don't have a good answer for you.

As I said in a previous post, I have found that cellophane as in
cellophane gift bags work technically (but I've only done small test
pieces with them).

I also have some thicker plastic bags (very large and thick resealable
ones, but of unknown plastic type) which also work.

But some other resealable bags don't.

Really it's a matter of experimenting and finding something that works
for you.

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Different resist will probably be slightly different but around that should work fine. I am using standard power LEDs with a wavelength of 395~400nm and they work fine with negative acting resist from eBay.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Kirk McLoren <kirkmcloren@...> wrote:
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Power-5w-uv-led-chip-395nm-Factory-price-ROHS-/221247492077?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item338360cfed
>
>
> will 395nm uv do it? What is the specd wavelength for the resist?
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Gustavo Villada <villada@...>
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 8:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: shelving vinyl toner transfer
>
>
>
>  
> On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 12:45 AM, James <bitsyboffin@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > On 29/06/13 14:47, Terry wrote:
> > >
> > > So, to clarify, are you saying to spread the ink on the board, then
> > > cover with cellophane? Then while still wet, place the mask and expose?
> > > .
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Yes that's correct.
> >
> > Thin layer of the ink (paint, whatever you want to call it), cover it
> > (still wet) with your cellophane (or other suitable plastic which
> > works), put your artwork against the cellophane, expose for XX minutes,
> > remove artwork, peel off cellophane. The unexposed areas (black in your
> > artwork) will be wet and simply wipe clean, the exposed areas will be
> > cured hard like epoxy.
> >
> > The ink is cured (dried and hardened) by UV, drying it any other way is
> > virtually impossible, and just makes it really hard to remove the
> > unexposed areas afterwards.
> >
> > The cellophane (whatever) covering serves two purposes, one it keeps the
> > ink off your artwork, and two it seals the ink against air while you are
> > exposing it - air inhibits curing.
> >
> >
> I test today and work fine, but I'll need to buy a couple of UV tubes since
> this winter is raining a lot :(
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

 
I would buy LED light over tube if it works





________________________________
From: tda7000 <Tda7000@...>
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 10:27 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: shelving vinyl toner transfer



 
Different resist will probably be slightly different but around that should work fine. I am using standard power LEDs with a wavelength of 395~400nm and they work fine with negative acting resist from eBay.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Kirk McLoren <kirkmcloren@...> wrote:
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Power-5w-uv-led-chip-395nm-Factory-price-ROHS-/221247492077?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item338360cfed
>
>
> will 395nm uv do it? What is the specd wavelength for the resist?
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Gustavo Villada <villada@...>
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 8:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: shelving vinyl toner transfer
>
>
>
>  
> On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 12:45 AM, James <bitsyboffin@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > On 29/06/13 14:47, Terry wrote:
> > >
> > > So, to clarify, are you saying to spread the ink on the board, then
> > > cover with cellophane? Then while still wet, place the mask and expose?
> > > .
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Yes that's correct.
> >
> > Thin layer of the ink (paint, whatever you want to call it), cover it
> > (still wet) with your cellophane (or other suitable plastic which
> > works), put your artwork against the cellophane, expose for XX minutes,
> > remove artwork, peel off cellophane. The unexposed areas (black in your
> > artwork) will be wet and simply wipe clean, the exposed areas will be
> > cured hard like epoxy.
> >
> > The ink is cured (dried and hardened) by UV, drying it any other way is
> > virtually impossible, and just makes it really hard to remove the
> > unexposed areas afterwards.
> >
> > The cellophane (whatever) covering serves two purposes, one it keeps the
> > ink off your artwork, and two it seals the ink against air while you are
> > exposing it - air inhibits curing.
> >
> >
> I test today and work fine, but I'll need to buy a couple of UV tubes since
> this winter is raining a lot :(
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

None of the Chinese suppliers I've used ever publish details like
wavelengths or even instructions. I guess with the language barrier they
figure if you don't already know what you're doing they can't help you.

I use a mercury-vapor UV bulb for PCB exposure work (both photoresist and
solder mask)

http://www.elightbulbs.com/catalog_product.cfm?source=NexTagCSE&prod=SL69444

My exposure box has the bulb about 10" from the board with some
first-surface mirrors to reduce wasted energy. This kind of bulb has a
borosilicate glass envelope to filter out the harmful UV spectra. A mercury
vapor lamp transmits in several bands, including 184.45nm, 253.7nm and
365.4nm in the UV band. The glass envelope blocks most of the radiation in
the shorter wavelengths, leaving the 365.4 band to do the work. 404.7 is
visible violet light. The shorter wavelengths are the ones that will damage
your retinas if exposed.

I suspect the UV sensitivity of the PCB materials is not an extremely narrow
band, and so most UV from visible violet down to the harmful range will
work. My exposure time for both resist and solder mask is about 3 and a half
minutes. I use the blue dry film negative photoresist and the liquid solder
mask mentioned earlier in this thread. I've tried the green and the white,
and have some blue now but have not yet tried it. The key to success with
the solder resist seems to be getting as thin a coat as you can use. The UV
does NOT penetrate very deep at all. I've taken finished boards and placed
them in the Arizona sun for half an hour and was still unable to cure the
ink where it was too thick.

I've seen exposure boxes made from UV LEDs, UV fluorescent tubes and regular
fluorescent tubes. And there's always the sun. I used that for quite a while
but got tired of trying to figure out the effects of clouds.
--
Phil M.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirk McLoren" <kirkmcloren@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: shelving vinyl toner transfer


http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Power-5w-uv-led-chip-395nm-Factory-price-ROHS-/221247492077?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item338360cfed


will 395nm uv do it? What is the specd wavelength for the resist?







________________________________
From: Gustavo Villada <villada@...>
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: shelving vinyl toner transfer




On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 12:45 AM, James <bitsyboffin@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> On 29/06/13 14:47, Terry wrote:
> >
> > So, to clarify, are you saying to spread the ink on the board, then
> > cover with cellophane? Then while still wet, place the mask and expose?
> > .
> >
> >
> >
>
> Yes that's correct.
>
> Thin layer of the ink (paint, whatever you want to call it), cover it
> (still wet) with your cellophane (or other suitable plastic which
> works), put your artwork against the cellophane, expose for XX minutes,
> remove artwork, peel off cellophane. The unexposed areas (black in your
> artwork) will be wet and simply wipe clean, the exposed areas will be
> cured hard like epoxy.
>
> The ink is cured (dried and hardened) by UV, drying it any other way is
> virtually impossible, and just makes it really hard to remove the
> unexposed areas afterwards.
>
> The cellophane (whatever) covering serves two purposes, one it keeps the
> ink off your artwork, and two it seals the ink against air while you are
> exposing it - air inhibits curing.
>
>
I test today and work fine, but I'll need to buy a couple of UV tubes since
this winter is raining a lot :(

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links

> Kirk McLoren wrote:
>
> I would buy LED light over tube if it works

It will cost $1000+ to get as much UV light
with LEDs as $50 worth of arc/fluro.

If your just doing resist then you don't
need much UV. If you are curing paint then
you do need a lot of UV.

>Phil wrote:
>
> <SNIP>
> The key to success with the solder resist
> seems to be getting as thin a coat as you
> can use. The UV does NOT penetrate very
> deep at all. I've taken finished boards
> and placed them in the Arizona sun for
> half an hour and was still unable to cure
> the ink where it was too thick.
>
> <SNIP>

Phil, Have you tried using a silk screen
too apply it?

(A blank screen that has no diazo/pattern
on it)

that sucks
 


 remember you are unique. Just like the rest of us.



________________________________
From: cunningfellow <andrewm1973@...>
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 5:16 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: shelving vinyl toner transfer



 

> Kirk McLoren wrote:
>
> I would buy LED light over tube if it works

It will cost $1000+ to get as much UV light
with LEDs as $50 worth of arc/fluro.

If your just doing resist then you don't
need much UV. If you are curing paint then
you do need a lot of UV.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 01/07/13 12:16, cunningfellow wrote:

>
> If your just doing resist then you don't
> need much UV. If you are curing paint then
> you do need a lot of UV.
>

I cure paint with 80 leds, in 25 to 30 minutes. 100 UV leds is just a
few bucks on ebay. Resist is done in 2m50s.

Somebody else asked about wavelength, I think pretty much anything 400
and under works fine, cheap UV leds are typically 390-400.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Haven't tried that but I doubt it would make much difference. The coating
has to be covered with either a protective sheet or the mask itself, and the
material flows quite easily under pressure. I find that the pressure of the
glass exposure frame forces most of the material out to the edges, leaving a
very thin coat (exactly what I want). A fairly small drop would be enough
for most any size board if not for the fact that some will be trapped in the
holes and enough is needed to ensure complete coverage without any bubbles
before the frame is closed. Most of it ends up as waste, but even so, it
doesn't take much. I bought 100 grams in each of three colors and I expect
that will be a lifetime supply. I have not noticed any deterioration from
sitting on the shelf. On the other hand, I've never used any guaranteed
fresh, so for all I know I might be amazed how much better it works.
--
Phil M.

----- Original Message -----
From: "cunningfellow" <andrewm1973@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 5:20 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: shelving vinyl toner transfer


> >Phil wrote:
>>
>> <SNIP>
>> The key to success with the solder resist
>> seems to be getting as thin a coat as you
>> can use. The UV does NOT penetrate very
>> deep at all. I've taken finished boards
>> and placed them in the Arizona sun for
>> half an hour and was still unable to cure
>> the ink where it was too thick.
>>
>> <SNIP>
>
> Phil, Have you tried using a silk screen
> too apply it?
>
> (A blank screen that has no diazo/pattern
> on it)
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

I use a soft rubber spoon that is used in pastry-making and remove all
bubles between PCB and plastic wrap.

now I must buy a new pair before my wife get enrage and oneshot me

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 2:28 PM, Phil@Yahoo <yahoo@...> wrote:
>
>
> Haven't tried that but I doubt it would make much difference. The coating
> has to be covered with either a protective sheet or the mask itself, and the
> material flows quite easily under pressure. I find that the pressure of the
> glass exposure frame forces most of the material out to the edges, leaving a
> very thin coat (exactly what I want). A fairly small drop would be enough
> for most any size board if not for the fact that some will be trapped in the
> holes and enough is needed to ensure complete coverage without any bubbles
> before the frame is closed. Most of it ends up as waste, but even so, it
> doesn't take much. I bought 100 grams in each of three colors and I expect
> that will be a lifetime supply. I have not noticed any deterioration from
> sitting on the shelf. On the other hand, I've never used any guaranteed
> fresh, so for all I know I might be amazed how much better it works.
>
>
> --
> Phil M.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "cunningfellow" <andrewm1973@...>
> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 5:20 PM
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: shelving vinyl toner transfer
>
>> >Phil wrote:
>>>
>>> <SNIP>
>>> The key to success with the solder resist
>>> seems to be getting as thin a coat as you
>>> can use. The UV does NOT penetrate very
>>> deep at all. I've taken finished boards
>>> and placed them in the Arizona sun for
>>> half an hour and was still unable to cure
>>> the ink where it was too thick.
>>>
>>> <SNIP>
>>
>> Phil, Have you tried using a silk screen
>> too apply it?
>>
>> (A blank screen that has no diazo/pattern
>> on it)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>
>>
>> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
>> Photos:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>