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drill for micro drill bits

drill for micro drill bits

2013-03-12 by Jeff Heiss

I am drilling holes with #96 (0.006 inch) drill bits. However, not one hole
has been drilled because the bits are so small compared to the runout of the
tool, they break in half when they touch the workpiece before any drilling
begins. Copper clad is my workpiece.



I tried a Dremel, Dremel flex handpiece, and Marathon 35k RPM micromotor.
All three have too much runout and the bit breaks in half. Has anyone
successfully drilled holes this small before? Are there any suggestions for
a drill or rotary tool that has low runout?



Jeff



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] drill for micro drill bits

2013-03-12 by Todd F. Carney / K7TFC

Jeff,

One problem I've had in the past is trying to figure out what the source of
the runout is with drills and drill presses. In this case, it could be the
shaft of the motor tool, or its collet, --or-- the drill bit itself. On a
drill press, a dial indicator can be used with a precisely-ground "know
bit" to measure runout. The 'know bit' eliminates any runout of a drill bit
itself. Runout that left is from either the chuck (or collet) or the "quill
shaft." Here's a page with some background:

http://www.precisebits.com/tutorials/spindle_runout.htm

I'm just curious. You'd need a 36 gauge or smaller wire to even go through
a 0.006 hole. What is your application? Are you drilling "pin holes" for
photography or some other optical application?

73,

Todd
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
K7TFC / Medford, Oregon, USA / CN82ni / UTC-8
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QRP (CW & SSB) / EmComm / SOTA / Homebrew / Design


On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Jeff Heiss <jeff.heiss@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> I am drilling holes with #96 (0.006 inch) drill bits. However, not one hole
> has been drilled because the bits are so small compared to the runout of
> the
> tool, they break in half when they touch the workpiece before any drilling
> begins. Copper clad is my workpiece.
>
> I tried a Dremel, Dremel flex handpiece, and Marathon 35k RPM micromotor.
> All three have too much runout and the bit breaks in half. Has anyone
> successfully drilled holes this small before? Are there any suggestions for
> a drill or rotary tool that has low runout?
>
> Jeff
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] drill for micro drill bits

2013-03-12 by KeepIt SimpleStupid

Proxxon's rotary tool has 0.001 runout: http://www.proxxontools.com/store/pc/catalog/manuals/proxxon_catalog_micromot_us.pdf

--- On Mon, 3/11/13, Jeff Heiss <jeff.heiss@...> wrote:

From: Jeff Heiss <jeff.heiss@...>
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] drill for micro drill bits
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, March 11, 2013, 11:36 PM


























I am drilling holes with #96 (0.006 inch) drill bits. However, not one hole

has been drilled because the bits are so small compared to the runout of the

tool, they break in half when they touch the workpiece before any drilling

begins. Copper clad is my workpiece.



I tried a Dremel, Dremel flex handpiece, and Marathon 35k RPM micromotor.

All three have too much runout and the bit breaks in half. Has anyone

successfully drilled holes this small before? Are there any suggestions for

a drill or rotary tool that has low runout?



Jeff



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] drill for micro drill bits

2013-03-12 by Todd F. Carney / K7TFC

Hey, KISS! Thanks for the Proxxon catalog. They've got some nice-looking
stuff. Do you own any of their tools? If you do, other than the runout
issue, what do you think of them?

73,

Todd
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
K7TFC / Medford, Oregon, USA / CN82ni / UTC-8
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QRP (CW & SSB) / EmComm / SOTA / Homebrew / Design


On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 11:44 PM, KeepIt SimpleStupid <
keepitsimplestupid@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Proxxon's rotary tool has 0.001 runout:
> http://www.proxxontools.com/store/pc/catalog/manuals/proxxon_catalog_micromot_us.pdf
>
> --- On Mon, 3/11/13, Jeff Heiss <jeff.heiss@...> wrote:
>
> From: Jeff Heiss <jeff.heiss@...>
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] drill for micro drill bits
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, March 11, 2013, 11:36 PM
>
>
>
>
> I am drilling holes with #96 (0.006 inch) drill bits. However, not one hole
>
> has been drilled because the bits are so small compared to the runout of
> the
>
> tool, they break in half when they touch the workpiece before any drilling
>
> begins. Copper clad is my workpiece.
>
> I tried a Dremel, Dremel flex handpiece, and Marathon 35k RPM micromotor.
>
> All three have too much runout and the bit breaks in half. Has anyone
>
> successfully drilled holes this small before? Are there any suggestions for
>
> a drill or rotary tool that has low runout?
>
> Jeff
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] drill for micro drill bits

2013-03-12 by casy_ch@tbwil.ch

Hello Todd

Here I have quite a number of them since many years. No comparison with
Dremel and other OEM Chinese drilling tools which are built for
marketing/product managers. Proxxon originated from East Germany (GDA)
and now Germany.

Vy 73 de Jean-Claude, HB3YDH


Am 12.03.2013 08:54, schrieb Todd F. Carney / K7TFC:
> Hey, KISS! Thanks for the Proxxon catalog. They've got some nice-looking
> stuff. Do you own any of their tools? If you do, other than the runout
> issue, what do you think of them?
>
> 73,
>
> Todd
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> K7TFC / Medford, Oregon, USA / CN82ni / UTC-8
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> QRP (CW & SSB) / EmComm / SOTA / Homebrew / Design
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 11:44 PM, KeepIt SimpleStupid <
> keepitsimplestupid@...> wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>> Proxxon's rotary tool has 0.001 runout:
>> http://www.proxxontools.com/store/pc/catalog/manuals/proxxon_catalog_micromot_us.pdf
>>
>> --- On Mon, 3/11/13, Jeff Heiss <jeff.heiss@...> wrote:
>>
>> From: Jeff Heiss <jeff.heiss@...>
>> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] drill for micro drill bits
>> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>> Date: Monday, March 11, 2013, 11:36 PM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I am drilling holes with #96 (0.006 inch) drill bits. However, not one hole
>>
>> has been drilled because the bits are so small compared to the runout of
>> the
>>
>> tool, they break in half when they touch the workpiece before any drilling
>>
>> begins. Copper clad is my workpiece.
>>
>> I tried a Dremel, Dremel flex handpiece, and Marathon 35k RPM micromotor.
>>
>> All three have too much runout and the bit breaks in half. Has anyone
>>
>> successfully drilled holes this small before? Are there any suggestions for
>>
>> a drill or rotary tool that has low runout?
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] drill for micro drill bits

2013-03-13 by Peter Loron

Bosch Colt with a precision collet?

Haven't used them myself, but may work for you:

http://www.precisebits.com/products/equipment/bosch_colt_collets_nuts.asp


-Pete

On Mar 11, 2013, at 8:36 PM, Jeff Heiss <jeff.heiss@...> wrote:

> I am drilling holes with #96 (0.006 inch) drill bits. However, not one hole
> has been drilled because the bits are so small compared to the runout of the
> tool, they break in half when they touch the workpiece before any drilling
> begins. Copper clad is my workpiece.
>
>
>
> I tried a Dremel, Dremel flex handpiece, and Marathon 35k RPM micromotor.
> All three have too much runout and the bit breaks in half. Has anyone
> successfully drilled holes this small before? Are there any suggestions for
> a drill or rotary tool that has low runout?
>
>
>
> Jeff
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] drill for micro drill bits

2013-03-13 by Jeff Heiss

From my measurements, it appears the shaft is not perfectly true and creates
runout. The problem occurs when a regular PCB drill bit is used in a rotary
tool. Because the drill bit tip is an inch from the collet, 0.002" of
runout at the collet yields .006" at the drill tip. With a 0.006" diameter
bit and 0.006" of runout, the bit doesn't stand a chance.

I would like to drill holes to bring balls of 0.5mm BGAs to the board
bottom. The hole goes between the balls which is why the holes are small.

Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Todd F. Carney / K7TFC
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 1:38 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] drill for micro drill bits

Jeff,

One problem I've had in the past is trying to figure out what the source of
the runout is with drills and drill presses. In this case, it could be the
shaft of the motor tool, or its collet, --or-- the drill bit itself. On a
drill press, a dial indicator can be used with a precisely-ground "know
bit" to measure runout. The 'know bit' eliminates any runout of a drill bit
itself. Runout that left is from either the chuck (or collet) or the "quill
shaft." Here's a page with some background:

http://www.precisebits.com/tutorials/spindle_runout.htm

I'm just curious. You'd need a 36 gauge or smaller wire to even go through
a 0.006 hole. What is your application? Are you drilling "pin holes" for
photography or some other optical application?

73,

Todd
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
K7TFC / Medford, Oregon, USA / CN82ni / UTC-8
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
QRP (CW & SSB) / EmComm / SOTA / Homebrew / Design


On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Jeff Heiss <jeff.heiss@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> I am drilling holes with #96 (0.006 inch) drill bits. However, not one
hole
> has been drilled because the bits are so small compared to the runout of
> the
> tool, they break in half when they touch the workpiece before any drilling
> begins. Copper clad is my workpiece.
>
> I tried a Dremel, Dremel flex handpiece, and Marathon 35k RPM micromotor.
> All three have too much runout and the bit breaks in half. Has anyone
> successfully drilled holes this small before? Are there any suggestions
for
> a drill or rotary tool that has low runout?
>
> Jeff
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] drill for micro drill bits

2013-03-13 by Jan Kok

I use a Proxxon rotary tool and drill stand with #80 (.013") carbide drill
bits, no problem. I don't have any drills smaller than that, so I can't say
how it would work with #96.

How do you align the drill with the board so you can hit your targets
accurately? How do you get the two sides of the board registered with each
other? And how will you create connections through the board?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] drill for micro drill bits

2013-03-13 by Todd F. Carney / K7TFC

If you're looking to make connections on a BGA chip, check out this
breakout board from SchmartBoard:

http://www.schmartboard.com/index.asp?page=products_bga&id=109

It's not cheap, but it might save you an enormous amount of pain,
frustration, and drill bits.

73,

Todd
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
K7TFC / Medford, Oregon, USA / CN82ni / UTC-8
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QRP (CW & SSB) / EmComm / SOTA / Homebrew / Design


On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 8:28 PM, Jan Kok <jan.kok.5y@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> I use a Proxxon rotary tool and drill stand with #80 (.013") carbide drill
> bits, no problem. I don't have any drills smaller than that, so I can't say
> how it would work with #96.
>
> How do you align the drill with the board so you can hit your targets
> accurately? How do you get the two sides of the board registered with each
> other? And how will you create connections through the board?
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: drill for micro drill bits

2013-03-13 by cunningfellow

> Jeff Heiss wrote:
>
> I am drilling holes with #96 (0.006 inch) drill
> bits. However, not one hole has been drilled

> <SNIP>

> Has anyone successfully drilled holes this small
> before? Are there any suggestions for a drill
> or rotary tool that has low runout?

In real measurements that is 0.15mm.

I regularly do 0.2mm in my Sakai/Mannix drill
press. Broken bits only ever happen from my
own clumsy hands.

I suspect it would do 0.15mm

The drill press might seem expensive to start
with but at many $ a pop for broken drills it
would pay for itself quick enough.

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] drill for micro drill bits

2013-03-13 by Jeff Heiss

The top of the board is etched first. There are four alignment crosses on
the top and holes are drilled through the center of the cross. The bottom
is aligned to the holes. I have not done the BGA vias yet since the drill
bits are breaking but I will try to solder wires thought the board to
connect the top and bottom. Then will I snip the wires flush between the
BGA ball pads and solder the BGA.



Jeff



_____

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Jan Kok
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:28 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] drill for micro drill bits





I use a Proxxon rotary tool and drill stand with #80 (.013") carbide drill
bits, no problem. I don't have any drills smaller than that, so I can't say
how it would work with #96.

How do you align the drill with the board so you can hit your targets
accurately? How do you get the two sides of the board registered with each
other? And how will you create connections through the board?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: drill for micro drill bits

2013-03-13 by tda7000

I admire your dedication but even as someone who might attempt such a thing myself, I would say it's going to be a big PITA.

Not the drilling so much, I think that's easy with a good tool, but when you come to solder the BGA on top of those wires, you better be damn sure they won't move and short out. I really don't see how that's going to be easy, since to solder the BGA properly you will need enough heat through the board and that will likely reflow all the solder on your via wires too.

Stuff up just one and the whole thing is ruined.

Might pay to buy a BGA breakout board on eBay or something, or design your own and send it to some cheap board house.


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Heiss" <jeff.heiss@...> wrote:
>
> The top of the board is etched first. There are four alignment crosses on
> the top and holes are drilled through the center of the cross. The bottom
> is aligned to the holes. I have not done the BGA vias yet since the drill
> bits are breaking but I will try to solder wires thought the board to
> connect the top and bottom. Then will I snip the wires flush between the
> BGA ball pads and solder the BGA.
>
>
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Jan Kok
> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:28 PM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] drill for micro drill bits
>
>
>
>
>
> I use a Proxxon rotary tool and drill stand with #80 (.013") carbide drill
> bits, no problem. I don't have any drills smaller than that, so I can't say
> how it would work with #96.
>
> How do you align the drill with the board so you can hit your targets
> accurately? How do you get the two sides of the board registered with each
> other? And how will you create connections through the board?
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] drill for micro drill bits

2013-03-14 by Mitch Davis

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Jeff Heiss <jeff.heiss@...> wrote:
>
> I tried a Dremel, Dremel flex handpiece, and Marathon 35k RPM micromotor.
> All three have too much runout and the bit breaks in half. Has anyone
> successfully drilled holes this small before? Are there any suggestions for
> a drill or rotary tool that has low runout?

Our hackerspace bought a Proxxon for our CNC mill because the runout
on a Dremel is just so bad. I don't know if we've done anything that
fine, but it's definitely a nicer piece of gear than the Dremel.

Mitch.

Re: drill for micro drill bits

2013-03-14 by cunningfellow

>> Jeff Heiss wrote:
>>
>> The top of the board is etched first. There
>> are four alignment crosses on the top and
>> holes are drilled through the center of the
>> cross. The bottom is aligned to the holes.
>> I have not done the BGA vias yet since the
>> drill bits are breaking but I will try to
>> solder wires thought the board to connect
>> the top and bottom. Then will I snip the
>> wires flush between the BGA ball pads and
>> solder the BGA.

Bottom holes dont have to clear pads/balls so
can be a lot bigger.

Use a high temp solder on the vias and 60/40
on the balls.

Use a solder mask of some kind.

Get used to frustration.

Possibly just make a CNC drill and some
through hole plating tanks. It might be
quicker in the end.