Homebrew_PCBs

I just had an idea of a better PCB generation system. It is still in the
works, but may be a great solution.

There is the photo-resist method that needs darkness.

There is the Toner Transfer System that I use a lot. But I find that I
am always touching up traces, especially the fine ones.

One person figured if they can print directly to the PCB using a laser
jet, but the stiff board would not go through the rollers.

What if I can come up with a flexible material that can be printed to
directly a positive image and then etch? It would be able to go through
laser printers without a problem.

I am building up some samples to test, but would this list be interested
in such a product?

Oh, to stiffen up, just add a piece of fiberglass to the back. Which I
can make as well. Would you be interested in this method? How much would
one be willing to pay for the materials for a 2"x2" size of board -
granted a larger one would be possible as well. In fact, using a legal
size copier would allow one to print up a 11" x 17" circuit board.

--
Derek Koonce
DDK Interactive Consulting Services

do you mean on polyimide kapton copper clad laminate??

you can get it on ebay ...

Actually thats not a bad idea ....

then run through a laser printer a few times ..... then etch ....

Heck ....

Spendy stuff though ..... but then agin .. its cheeaper than 200$ for a 3 board run ...


To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
From: derek@...
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 09:56:03 -0800
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] New PCB etching method proposal


























I just had an idea of a better PCB generation system. It is still in the

works, but may be a great solution.



There is the photo-resist method that needs darkness.



There is the Toner Transfer System that I use a lot. But I find that I

am always touching up traces, especially the fine ones.



One person figured if they can print directly to the PCB using a laser

jet, but the stiff board would not go through the rollers.



What if I can come up with a flexible material that can be printed to

directly a positive image and then etch? It would be able to go through

laser printers without a problem.



I am building up some samples to test, but would this list be interested

in such a product?



Oh, to stiffen up, just add a piece of fiberglass to the back. Which I

can make as well. Would you be interested in this method? How much would

one be willing to pay for the materials for a 2"x2" size of board -

granted a larger one would be possible as well. In fact, using a legal

size copier would allow one to print up a 11" x 17" circuit board.



--

Derek Koonce

DDK Interactive Consulting Services


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 28/02/2013 17:56, Derek wrote:

> I just had an idea of a better PCB generation system. It is still in the
> works, but may be a great solution.
>
> There is the photo-resist method that needs darkness.

Darkness isn't required with the positive resist-coated boards I use.

Leon
--
Leon Heller
G1HSM

well .. maybe not so bad anymore ....

2160Sq" for 75$ .... hummm ...

> To: homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com
> From: Patriot121@...
> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 10:18:31 -0800
> Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] New PCB etching method proposal
>
> do you mean on polyimide kapton copper clad laminate??
>
> you can get it on ebay ...
>
> Actually thats not a bad idea ....
>
> then run through a laser printer a few times ..... then etch ....
>
> Heck ....
>
> Spendy stuff though ..... but then agin .. its cheeaper than 200$ for a 3 board run ...
>
>
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> From: derek@...
> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 09:56:03 -0800
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] New PCB etching method proposal
>
>
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> I just had an idea of a better PCB generation system. It is still in the
>
> works, but may be a great solution.
>
>
>
> There is the photo-resist method that needs darkness.
>
>
>
> There is the Toner Transfer System that I use a lot. But I find that I
>
> am always touching up traces, especially the fine ones.
>
>
>
> One person figured if they can print directly to the PCB using a laser
>
> jet, but the stiff board would not go through the rollers.
>
>
>
> What if I can come up with a flexible material that can be printed to
>
> directly a positive image and then etch? It would be able to go through
>
> laser printers without a problem.
>
>
>
> I am building up some samples to test, but would this list be interested
>
> in such a product?
>
>
>
> Oh, to stiffen up, just add a piece of fiberglass to the back. Which I
>
> can make as well. Would you be interested in this method? How much would
>
> one be willing to pay for the materials for a 2"x2" size of board -
>
> granted a larger one would be possible as well. In fact, using a legal
>
> size copier would allow one to print up a 11" x 17" circuit board.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Derek Koonce
>
> DDK Interactive Consulting Services
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Figure a single laser pass. More than once can mess up the fine lines.

Derek Koonce
DDK Interactive Consulting Services

On 2/28/2013 10:18 AM, MIKE DURKIN wrote:

> do you mean on polyimide kapton copper clad laminate??
>
> you can get it on ebay ...
>
> Actually thats not a bad idea ....
>
> then run through a laser printer a few times ..... then etch ....
>
> Heck ....
>
> Spendy stuff though ..... but then agin .. its cheeaper than 200$ for a 3 board run ...
>
>
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> From: derek@...
> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 09:56:03 -0800
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] New PCB etching method proposal
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
> I just had an idea of a better PCB generation system. It is still in the
>
> works, but may be a great solution.
>
>
>
> There is the photo-resist method that needs darkness.
>
>
>
> There is the Toner Transfer System that I use a lot. But I find that I
>
> am always touching up traces, especially the fine ones.
>
>
>
> One person figured if they can print directly to the PCB using a laser
>
> jet, but the stiff board would not go through the rollers.
>
>
>
> What if I can come up with a flexible material that can be printed to
>
> directly a positive image and then etch? It would be able to go through
>
> laser printers without a problem.
>
>
>
> I am building up some samples to test, but would this list be interested
>
> in such a product?
>
>
>
> Oh, to stiffen up, just add a piece of fiberglass to the back. Which I
>
> can make as well. Would you be interested in this method? How much would
>
> one be willing to pay for the materials for a 2"x2" size of board -
>
> granted a larger one would be possible as well. In fact, using a legal
>
> size copier would allow one to print up a 11" x 17" circuit board.
>
>
>

Be careful that the copper does not scratch the cylinder inside the printer.

Rick

On Feb 28, 2013, at 10:56 AM, Derek <derek@...> wrote:

> I just had an idea of a better PCB generation system. It is still in the
> works, but may be a great solution.
>
> There is the photo-resist method that needs darkness.
>
> There is the Toner Transfer System that I use a lot. But I find that I
> am always touching up traces, especially the fine ones.
>
> One person figured if they can print directly to the PCB using a laser
> jet, but the stiff board would not go through the rollers.
>
> What if I can come up with a flexible material that can be printed to
> directly a positive image and then etch? It would be able to go through
> laser printers without a problem.
>
> I am building up some samples to test, but would this list be interested
> in such a product?
>
> Oh, to stiffen up, just add a piece of fiberglass to the back. Which I
> can make as well. Would you be interested in this method? How much would
> one be willing to pay for the materials for a 2"x2" size of board -
> granted a larger one would be possible as well. In fact, using a legal
> size copier would allow one to print up a 11" x 17" circuit board.
>
> --
> Derek Koonce
> DDK Interactive Consulting Services
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Not to be a total tool, but a legal size copier or printer will allow you
to print to legal size - 8.5 x 14. To do 11x17, you need a ledger size
printer / copier. Good quality ledger printers can be had pretty cheaply
too - lots of used HP LJ8000, or the equivalent (exactly the same) Lexmark
printers are around. Can even pick up real cheap HP color lasers in ledger
size too, if you know where to look, and have a big enough vehicle to get
it home!

On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Derek <derek@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> I just had an idea of a better PCB generation system. It is still in the
> works, but may be a great solution.
>
> There is the photo-resist method that needs darkness.
>
> There is the Toner Transfer System that I use a lot. But I find that I
> am always touching up traces, especially the fine ones.
>
> One person figured if they can print directly to the PCB using a laser
> jet, but the stiff board would not go through the rollers.
>
> What if I can come up with a flexible material that can be printed to
> directly a positive image and then etch? It would be able to go through
> laser printers without a problem.
>
> I am building up some samples to test, but would this list be interested
> in such a product?
>
> Oh, to stiffen up, just add a piece of fiberglass to the back. Which I
> can make as well. Would you be interested in this method? How much would
> one be willing to pay for the materials for a 2"x2" size of board -
> granted a larger one would be possible as well. In fact, using a legal
> size copier would allow one to print up a 11" x 17" circuit board.
>
> --
> Derek Koonce
> DDK Interactive Consulting Services
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 9:56 AM, Derek <derek@...> wrote:

>
> I just had an idea of a better PCB generation system. It is still in the
> works, but may be a great solution.
>

Derek,

There are various forms of copper-clad Kapton (polyimide) film you might
try for this idea. If you used one with, say, 1/2oz copper-clad and less
than, say, 4mils of Kapton, you might get it to run through a laser
printer/copier. Kapton can take high temperatures and it is very
dimensionally stable. It will not, though, be cheap.

By the way, I'm not familiar with any photo-resist methods that require
anything but dim or yellow light--none that require darkness. Which one(s)
were you referring to?

73,

Todd
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
K7TFC / Medford, Oregon, USA / CN82ni / UTC-8
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QRP (CW & SSB) / EmComm / SOTA / Homebrew / Design


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Derek wrote:

>
>
>
>
> There is the photo-resist method that needs darkness.
>

Negative dry film I use is quite happy under normal lighting, darkness
not required. Just don't work with it in the sunlight.

As one who has spent a LOT of time experimenting with direct laser
printing, I can tell you it is not as simple as it sounds. Some laser
printers work very well, others do not. The simplest way to do what
you are proposing is to print on .005 or .007 thick pcb material
(available on ebay), which is flexible enough to go through most
lasers, then glue it on a piece of fr4. Do each side on a different
sheet, etch then glue to make a ds board.

Mark


At 12:56 PM 2/28/2013, you wrote:

>I just had an idea of a better PCB generation system. It is still in the
>works, but may be a great solution.
>
>There is the photo-resist method that needs darkness.
>
>There is the Toner Transfer System that I use a lot. But I find that I
>am always touching up traces, especially the fine ones.
>
>One person figured if they can print directly to the PCB using a laser
>jet, but the stiff board would not go through the rollers.
>
>What if I can come up with a flexible material that can be printed to
>directly a positive image and then etch? It would be able to go through
>laser printers without a problem.
>
>I am building up some samples to test, but would this list be interested
>in such a product?
>
>Oh, to stiffen up, just add a piece of fiberglass to the back. Which I
>can make as well. Would you be interested in this method? How much would
>one be willing to pay for the materials for a 2"x2" size of board -
>granted a larger one would be possible as well. In fact, using a legal
>size copier would allow one to print up a 11" x 17" circuit board.
>
>--
>Derek Koonce
>DDK Interactive Consulting Services
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>