Yahoo Groups archive
Thread
2013-02-11 by Rick Sparber
I have been using the same ferric chloride for a while and it still does a fine job of etching my boards. But it has become darker and I see some precipitates forming. Does it just need a little water? Thanks, Rick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2013-02-11 by Leon Heller
On 11/02/2013 13:06, Rick Sparber wrote: > I have been using the same ferric chloride for a while and it still does a > fine job of etching my boards. But it has become darker and I see some > precipitates forming. Does it just need a little water? A little hydrochloric acid should remove the sludge. Leon -- Leon Heller G1HSM
2013-02-12 by Rick Sparber
Leon, I'll try that today. Any idea why the ferric chloride is getting darker? Rick
-----Original Message----- From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leon Heller Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 6:40 AM To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] ferric chloride question On 11/02/2013 13:06, Rick Sparber wrote: > I have been using the same ferric chloride for a while and it still > does a fine job of etching my boards. But it has become darker and I > see some precipitates forming. Does it just need a little water? A little hydrochloric acid should remove the sludge. Leon -- Leon Heller G1HSM ------------------------------------ Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
2013-02-12 by toddroberts2001@...
Thanks for the postings as I try to keep up with the list. I tried Leon's suggestion recently and sure enough, adding a little Hydrochloric acid to some used Ferric Chloride solution cleared up the sludge that was on the bottom of the container after sitting a while. The solution is still dark, but nothing wrong with that. Thanks again - 73 Todd WD4NGG In a message dated 2/12/2013 9:36:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, rgsparber@... writes: Leon, I'll try that today. Any idea why the ferric chloride is getting darker? Rick -----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leon Heller Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 6:40 AM To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] ferric chloride question On 11/02/2013 13:06, Rick Sparber wrote: > I have been using the same ferric chloride for a while and it still > does a fine job of etching my boards. But it has become darker and I > see some precipitates forming. Does it just need a little water? A little hydrochloric acid should remove the sludge. Leon -- Leon Heller G1HSM
2013-02-12 by Todd F. Carney
Rick, The ferric chloride is dissolving copper into solution. For that reason, I could not get lighter or stay the same. Put something that's not white into solution and the solution gets darker. 73, Todd ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ K7TFC / Medford, Oregon, USA / CN82ni / UTC-8 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ QRP (CW & SSB) / EmComm / SOTA / Homebrew / Design On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 6:36 AM, Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...> wrote: > ** > > > Leon, > > I'll try that today. > > Any idea why the ferric chloride is getting darker? > > Rick > > -----Original Message----- > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Leon Heller > Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 6:40 AM > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] ferric chloride question > > On 11/02/2013 13:06, Rick Sparber wrote: > > I have been using the same ferric chloride for a while and it still > > does a fine job of etching my boards. But it has become darker and I > > see some precipitates forming. Does it just need a little water? > > A little hydrochloric acid should remove the sludge. > > Leon > -- > Leon Heller > G1HSM > > ------------------------------------ > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2013-02-12 by DJ Delorie
"Rick Sparber" <rgsparber@...> writes: > Any idea why the ferric chloride is getting darker? What do you think happens to all that copper you etch off? It's still in there somewhere...
2013-02-12 by Rick Sparber
I was thinking that the copper was the precipitate I was seeing. Rick
-----Original Message----- From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of DJ Delorie Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 12:39 PM To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] ferric chloride question "Rick Sparber" <rgsparber@...> writes: > Any idea why the ferric chloride is getting darker? What do you think happens to all that copper you etch off? It's still in there somewhere... ------------------------------------ Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
2013-02-12 by Rick Sparber
Todd, Makes sense. Thanks, Rick
-----Original Message----- From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Todd F. Carney Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 12:20 PM To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] ferric chloride question Rick, The ferric chloride is dissolving copper into solution. For that reason, I could not get lighter or stay the same. Put something that's not white into solution and the solution gets darker. 73, Todd ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- K7TFC / Medford, Oregon, USA / CN82ni / UTC-8 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- QRP (CW & SSB) / EmComm / SOTA / Homebrew / Design On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 6:36 AM, Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...> wrote: > ** > > > Leon, > > I'll try that today. > > Any idea why the ferric chloride is getting darker? > > Rick > > -----Original Message----- > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Leon Heller > Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 6:40 AM > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] ferric chloride question > > On 11/02/2013 13:06, Rick Sparber wrote: > > I have been using the same ferric chloride for a while and it still > > does a fine job of etching my boards. But it has become darker and I > > see some precipitates forming. Does it just need a little water? > > A little hydrochloric acid should remove the sludge. > > Leon > -- > Leon Heller > G1HSM > > ------------------------------------ > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
2013-02-13 by Rick Sparber
The reason that having the ferric chloride dark is an issue for me is that I use a translucent tub that sits over a 200W incandescent bulb. I am able to slowly slosh the liquid back and forth while looking at the board being etched. As light shines through the copper free areas, I am able to monitor the process. Rick
-----Original Message----- From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of toddroberts2001@... Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 7:59 AM To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] ferric chloride question Thanks for the postings as I try to keep up with the list. I tried Leon's suggestion recently and sure enough, adding a little Hydrochloric acid to some used Ferric Chloride solution cleared up the sludge that was on the bottom of the container after sitting a while. The solution is still dark, but nothing wrong with that. Thanks again - 73 Todd WD4NGG In a message dated 2/12/2013 9:36:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, rgsparber@... writes: Leon, I'll try that today. Any idea why the ferric chloride is getting darker? Rick -----Original Message----- From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leon Heller Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 6:40 AM To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] ferric chloride question On 11/02/2013 13:06, Rick Sparber wrote: > I have been using the same ferric chloride for a while and it still > does a fine job of etching my boards. But it has become darker and I > see some precipitates forming. Does it just need a little water? A little hydrochloric acid should remove the sludge. Leon -- Leon Heller G1HSM ------------------------------------ Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
2013-02-13 by toddroberts2001@...
In a message dated 2/12/2013 7:05:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, rgsparber@... writes: The reason that having the ferric chloride dark is an issue for me is that I use a translucent tub that sits over a 200W incandescent bulb. I am able to slowly slosh the liquid back and forth while looking at the board being etched. As light shines through the copper free areas, I am able to monitor the process. Rick Good point Rick. It sounds like you are trying to see up through the board from the bottom up. Have you tried placing a bulb over top of the etching tub? I use one of those hand-held trouble lights and hold it directly over my etching tray so I can see what is going on with the board and check it every few minutes. Usually it is pretty easy for me to see when the copper is etched off the board. Not making the etchant level more than an inch deep over the board helps also. But I guess when the etchant gets too dark it can make it hard to see the board when it is submerged. The Ferric Chloride is already pretty dark to begin with. 73 Todd WD4NGG
2013-02-13 by Rick Sparber
I started out with the light overhead but having it under the tub works better for me. Only when the copper is gone does the light come through. The bulb also warms the acid a bit. Rick
On Feb 12, 2013, at 5:43 PM, toddroberts2001@... wrote: > In a message dated 2/12/2013 7:05:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > rgsparber@... writes: > > The reason that having the ferric chloride dark is an issue for me is that > I > use a translucent tub that sits over a 200W incandescent bulb. I am able to > slowly slosh the liquid back and forth while looking at the board being > etched. As light shines through the copper free areas, I am able to monitor > the process. > > Rick > > Good point Rick. It sounds like you are trying to see up through the > board from the bottom up. Have you tried placing a bulb over top of the > etching tub? > > I use one of those hand-held trouble lights and hold it directly over > my etching tray so I can see what is going on with the board > and check it every few minutes. Usually it is pretty easy for me > to see when the copper is etched off the board. Not making the etchant > level more than > an inch deep over the board helps also. But I guess when the etchant gets > too dark > it can make it hard to see the board when it is submerged. The Ferric > Chloride > is already pretty dark to begin with. > > 73 Todd WD4NGG > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links > > >
2013-02-13 by scubadogct
Does the addition of Hydrochloric acid help to maintain its working strength also? --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, toddroberts2001@... wrote:
> > In a message dated free areas, I am able to monitor > the process. > > Rick > > Good point Rick. It sounds like you are trying to see up through the > board from the bottom up. Have you tried placing a bulb over top of the > etching tub? > > I use one of those hand-held trouble lights and hold it directly over > my etching tray so I can see what is going on with the board > and check it every few minutes. Usually it is pretty easy for me > to see when the copper is etched off the board. Not making the etchant > level more than > an inch deep over the board helps also. But I guess when the etchant gets > too dark > it can make it hard to see the board when it is submerged. The Ferric > Chloride > is already pretty dark to begin with. > > 73 Todd WD4NGG >
2013-02-13 by scubadogct
Does the addition of Hydrochloric acid help to maintain its working strength also? --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, toddroberts2001@... wrote:
> > In a message dated free areas, I am able to monitor > the process. > > Rick > > Good point Rick. It sounds like you are trying to see up through the > board from the bottom up. Have you tried placing a bulb over top of the > etching tub? > > I use one of those hand-held trouble lights and hold it directly over > my etching tray so I can see what is going on with the board > and check it every few minutes. Usually it is pretty easy for me > to see when the copper is etched off the board. Not making the etchant > level more than > an inch deep over the board helps also. But I guess when the etchant gets > too dark > it can make it hard to see the board when it is submerged. The Ferric > Chloride > is already pretty dark to begin with. > > 73 Todd WD4NGG >
2013-02-13 by Charlie Taylor
Thank you very much. Very informative. Exactly what i was looking for. Regards Charlie On Feb 13, 2013 6:54 AM, "scubadogct" <scubadogct@...> wrote: > ** > > > Does the addition of Hydrochloric acid help to maintain its working > strength also? > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, toddroberts2001@... wrote: > > > > In a message dated free areas, I am able to monitor > > the process. > > > > Rick > > > > Good point Rick. It sounds like you are trying to see up through the > > board from the bottom up. Have you tried placing a bulb over top of the > > etching tub? > > > > I use one of those hand-held trouble lights and hold it directly over > > my etching tray so I can see what is going on with the board > > and check it every few minutes. Usually it is pretty easy for me > > to see when the copper is etched off the board. Not making the etchant > > level more than > > an inch deep over the board helps also. But I guess when the etchant > gets > > too dark > > it can make it hard to see the board when it is submerged. The Ferric > > Chloride > > is already pretty dark to begin with. > > > > 73 Todd WD4NGG > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2013-02-13 by toddroberts2001@...
In a message dated 2/13/2013 1:54:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, scubadogct@... writes: Does the addition of Hydrochloric acid help to maintain its working strength also? From what I have read adding Hydrochloric Acid (muriatic acid) does help to rejuvenate the Ferric Chloride. Here is a short article on the subject : http://users.monash.edu.au/~ralphk/etching-pcb.html The article says you can rejuvenate Ferric Chloride by adding a small wad of steel wool, then filter out the solution and add some Hydrochloric Acid. The steel wool precipitates the copper out of the solution. It doesn't say how much steel wool to add or how much Hydrochloric Acid to add so you will probably need to do it by trial and error, but should be worth a try. 73 Todd WD4NGG
2013-02-14 by Rick Sparber
First I added some Muriatic Acid and did see much of the precipitate dissolve. Next, I put a small tuft of steel wool in the ferric chloride. After 20 minutes it was gone. I then filtered it through a coffee filter. I next tried to use it to etch a board and found that it would not work at all. Maybe my proportions were all wrong. I would much prefer specific ratios than cut and try. Thanks, Rick
-----Original Message----- From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of toddroberts2001@... Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 8:44 AM To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: ferric chloride question In a message dated 2/13/2013 1:54:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, scubadogct@... writes: Does the addition of Hydrochloric acid help to maintain its working strength also? From what I have read adding Hydrochloric Acid (muriatic acid) does help to rejuvenate the Ferric Chloride. Here is a short article on the subject : http://users.monash.edu.au/~ralphk/etching-pcb.html The article says you can rejuvenate Ferric Chloride by adding a small wad of steel wool, then filter out the solution and add some Hydrochloric Acid. The steel wool precipitates the copper out of the solution. It doesn't say how much steel wool to add or how much Hydrochloric Acid to add so you will probably need to do it by trial and error, but should be worth a try. 73 Todd WD4NGG ------------------------------------ Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
2013-02-14 by Todd F. Carney
Rick, Other than looking a little cruddy, what is the problem with the precipitate that settles on the bottom? If you're worried it might be ferric chloride that's fallen out of solution, then warm up the solution and see if you can get the precipitate to dissolve. If you can't then it can be simply filtered out. I wouldn't bother myself, but to each his own. Now that you have muriatic acid, maybe it's time to switch to home-brewed etchant made of the acid, drug-store peroxide, and table salt. Google it. You'll find plenty. Best Todd On Feb 14, 2013 10:21 AM, "Rick Sparber" <rgsparber@...> wrote: > ** > > > First I added some Muriatic Acid and did see much of the precipitate > dissolve. Next, I put a small tuft of steel wool in the ferric chloride. > After 20 minutes it was gone. I then filtered it through a coffee filter. I > next tried to use it to etch a board and found that it would not work at > all. Maybe my proportions were all wrong. I would much prefer specific > ratios than cut and try. > > Thanks, > > Rick > > -----Original Message----- > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of toddroberts2001@... > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 8:44 AM > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: ferric chloride question > > In a message dated 2/13/2013 1:54:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > scubadogct@... writes: > > Does the addition of Hydrochloric acid help to maintain its working > strength > also? > > From what I have read adding Hydrochloric Acid (muriatic acid) does help to > rejuvenate the Ferric Chloride. Here is a short article on the subject : > > http://users.monash.edu.au/~ralphk/etching-pcb.html > > The article says you can rejuvenate Ferric Chloride by adding a small wad > of steel wool, then filter out the solution and add some Hydrochloric Acid. > The steel wool precipitates the copper out of the solution. It doesn't say > how much steel wool to add or how much Hydrochloric Acid to add so you will > probably need to do it by trial and error, but should be worth a try. > > 73 Todd WD4NGG > > > ------------------------------------ > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2013-02-15 by Rick Sparber
Todd, The precipitate made it harder to see the board while it was etching. I use a translucent tub with a 200W bulb under it. This arrangement lets me continuously monitor the etching progress as long as the ferric chloride is not too dark or filled with crud. I did not see any reduction of precipitate when I warmed the solution. I live in Phoenix and it is very dry here. Could a loss of water from the solution cause the precipitate to form? I did buy a bottle of some crystals (not in shop and forgot the name) that is mixed with water for etching. I do hope to get away from ferric chloride soon. Rick
-----Original Message----- From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Todd F. Carney Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:44 PM To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: ferric chloride question Rick, Other than looking a little cruddy, what is the problem with the precipitate that settles on the bottom? If you're worried it might be ferric chloride that's fallen out of solution, then warm up the solution and see if you can get the precipitate to dissolve. If you can't then it can be simply filtered out. I wouldn't bother myself, but to each his own. Now that you have muriatic acid, maybe it's time to switch to home-brewed etchant made of the acid, drug-store peroxide, and table salt. Google it. You'll find plenty. Best Todd On Feb 14, 2013 10:21 AM, "Rick Sparber" <rgsparber@...> wrote: > ** > > > First I added some Muriatic Acid and did see much of the precipitate > dissolve. Next, I put a small tuft of steel wool in the ferric chloride. > After 20 minutes it was gone. I then filtered it through a coffee > filter. I next tried to use it to etch a board and found that it would > not work at all. Maybe my proportions were all wrong. I would much > prefer specific ratios than cut and try. > > Thanks, > > Rick > > -----Original Message----- > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of toddroberts2001@... > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 8:44 AM > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: ferric chloride question > > In a message dated 2/13/2013 1:54:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > scubadogct@... writes: > > Does the addition of Hydrochloric acid help to maintain its working > strength also? > > From what I have read adding Hydrochloric Acid (muriatic acid) does > help to rejuvenate the Ferric Chloride. Here is a short article on the subject : > > http://users.monash.edu.au/~ralphk/etching-pcb.html > > The article says you can rejuvenate Ferric Chloride by adding a small > wad of steel wool, then filter out the solution and add some Hydrochloric Acid. > The steel wool precipitates the copper out of the solution. It doesn't > say how much steel wool to add or how much Hydrochloric Acid to add so > you will probably need to do it by trial and error, but should be worth a try. > > 73 Todd WD4NGG > > > ------------------------------------ > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links