Homebrew PCBs

In a message dated 11/11/2003 5:54:38 PM Central Standard Time, 
suri_list@yahoo.com writes:
after i 
have used it for etching a board how can i dispose it safely so that 
it doesnt hurt the environment or anybody else.
Harshit:  You should be able to use the same solution for MORE than one 
board, depending on how DEEP you cover the board with it (6-7 mm. is usually 
enough!), how warm the solution is, the "oz. thickness" of the copper you use, 
whether single- or double-sided, etc. 

I you use no more than a liter per month, you can probably flush small 
portions of that down the toilet, assuming you have "public sewer system".  Sadly 
for me, I have "private" septic-tanks, so this would ruin the bacterialogical 
effect in that.  SO, I pour the stuff on WEEDS in the yard, where there is no 
"good grass" to worry about.  It is NOT horribly nasty, except on the fingers!  
However, I use no more than one or two liters of the stuff per year!  Do you 
live near the sea?  You can pour DOZENS of liters of it in the sea, and it will 
do NO harm, as it will be diluted in seconds, and will have NO "nasty" 
effects.

However, if you use 100 liters a week or more, I would not suggest this.  
BUT, ferric chloride is NOT used for large-quantity production of PCB's, now, is 
it???     Common sense!

FeCl³ is simply IRON and CHLORINE.  Chlorine is a "nasty" gas, but in ionic 
form, it combines readily with other ions to make harmless substances 
(table-salt is 50% chlorine!).  Iron is not a poison!  Now, if it were Arsenic 
Chloride, etc., that would be a different matter!  Think about it.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> 
> I you use no more than a liter per month, you can probably flush small 
> portions of that down the toilet, assuming you have "public sewer system".  Sadly 
> for me, I have "private" septic-tanks, so this would ruin the bacterialogical 
> effect in that.  SO, I pour the stuff on WEEDS in the yard, where there is no 
> "good grass" to worry about.  It is NOT horribly nasty, except on the fingers!  
> However, I use no more than one or two liters of the stuff per year!  Do you 
> live near the sea?  You can pour DOZENS of liters of it in the sea, and it will 
> do NO harm, as it will be diluted in seconds, and will have NO "nasty" 
> effects.

   Just like it kills your microbes, it kills the ones at the local 
water treatment plant and makes it harder for them to meet their waste 
water standards.  For that reason most places have an ordinance against 
it, and if anyone did enough for them to track it down (easily traced 
even long after btw) they're likely to get the fine to pay the city 
employees for tracking it down.  Might want to at least check what the 
fine is first, some places have large fines for everything.  That said a 
bit now and then probably won't bring notice just don't do much this way 
and dilute it heavily as you're doing it.  Yard really wouldn't be a big 
deal, and sea is actually a good idea the amounts would be miniscule.


> 
> However, if you use 100 liters a week or more, I would not suggest this.  
> BUT, ferric chloride is NOT used for large-quantity production of PCB's, now, is 
> it???     Common sense!
> 
> FeCl\ufffd is simply IRON and CHLORINE.  Chlorine is a "nasty" gas, but in ionic 
> form, it combines readily with other ions to make harmless substances 
> (table-salt is 50% chlorine!).  Iron is not a poison!  Now, if it were Arsenic 
> Chloride, etc., that would be a different matter!  Think about it.

   But it's Copper Chloride by the time you pour it down the drain, not 
Iron Chloride.  And most if not all copper compounds are at least mildly 
poisonous, CuCl is.  FeCl is widely used to bind metals out of cow 
manure for processing the waste as well as PC boards, not sure it's the 
same type there are apparently two FeCl varieties.  Once bound though 
the results are usually mild hazards or worse, it has to do with the 
bound metals not what it started as.

   Still, recharge the stuff instead of throwing it away.  It should be 
cheaper to use nails and plate the copper back out than to buy new etchant.

Alan

Hi All,
    All chemicals and medicines are toxic to humans depending on dosage (XX.XX mg/kg etc.).
In the not to distant past I was a street Paramedic and in school during our pediatrics lecture we were presented with several cases of Iron overdose in infants or young children.
This usually occurred when the child's mother was taking prenatal vitamins prior to conceiving a second child.
(Actually they are often taken from thought of conception until after the resulting child is weaned from breast feeding.)
Prenatal vitamins have a high Iron content and although extremely beneficial to the mother, a child can easily overdose on them. 
But don't take my word for it, check this out: http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/plants/toxicagents/iron.html
Scroll about half way down to see what I'm talking about.

One of my most memorable quotes from one of my instructors was:
"Are you sure about that dosage? You want to cure your patient not kill them"

Have a good day,
    Kevin

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: JanRwl@... 
  To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 11:28 PM
  Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] How to handle Ferric Chloride safely and in environmental...


  In a message dated 11/11/2003 5:54:38 PM Central Standard Time, 
  suri_list@... writes:
  after i 
  have used it for etching a board how can i dispose it safely so that 
  it doesnt hurt the environment or anybody else.
  Harshit:  You should be able to use the same solution for MORE than one 
  board, depending on how DEEP you cover the board with it (6-7 mm. is usually 
  enough!), how warm the solution is, the "oz. thickness" of the copper you use, 
  whether single- or double-sided, etc. 

  I you use no more than a liter per month, you can probably flush small 
  portions of that down the toilet, assuming you have "public sewer system".  Sadly 
  for me, I have "private" septic-tanks, so this would ruin the bacterialogical 
  effect in that.  SO, I pour the stuff on WEEDS in the yard, where there is no 
  "good grass" to worry about.  It is NOT horribly nasty, except on the fingers!  
  However, I use no more than one or two liters of the stuff per year!  Do you 
  live near the sea?  You can pour DOZENS of liters of it in the sea, and it will 
  do NO harm, as it will be diluted in seconds, and will have NO "nasty" 
  effects.

  However, if you use 100 liters a week or more, I would not suggest this.  
  BUT, ferric chloride is NOT used for large-quantity production of PCB's, now, is 
  it???     Common sense!

  FeCl³ is simply IRON and CHLORINE.  Chlorine is a "nasty" gas, but in ionic 
  form, it combines readily with other ions to make harmless substances 
  (table-salt is 50% chlorine!).  Iron is not a poison!  Now, if it were Arsenic 
  Chloride, etc., that would be a different matter!  Think about it.


  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This is a compelling arguement to electroplate the
copper out of ferric chloride and then reuse it...


Best regards


Marvin Dickens


--- Kevin Lavigne <klavigne@...> wrote:
>http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/plants/toxicagents/iron.html
> Scroll about half way down to see what I'm talking
> about.


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In a message dated 11/13/2003 1:48:21 PM Central Standard Time, 
alan@... writes:
Still, recharge the stuff instead of throwing it away.  It should be 
cheaper to use nails and plate the copper back out than to buy new etchant.
Alan!  Describe for us (again?) how an ignernt non-chemist can DO that???  
Thanks!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 11/13/2003 10:21:33 PM Central Standard Time, 
md30022@... writes:
This is a compelling arguement to electroplate the
copper out of ferric chloride and then reuse it...
HOW, please?  


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I basically agree with that

BUT i have surely some hundred kilograms of iron in various forms in/around 
my house.
These will kill me, but only if i swallow them or maybe a piece falls on my 
head.


I mean you won't apply ferric cloride to your body, at least not on 
purpose.
so any mg/kg rating is not of much use i think. (Kevin, i hope you don't 
talk us in
volunteering for LD50 tests of Fe3Cl on Humans ;-) )

More of interest is if the ferric cloride is a danger to wastewater 
cleaning facilities.
It's just not ok to make them trouble if you can avoid it.


I most like the idea of neutralizing and let evaporate the water.
then put the salt residue in the trash bin. But i wouldn't disagree
that neutralizing and pooring in the drain would be a possibility, i really
don't think the solved copper is that bad.

st




On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:19:10 -0500, Kevin Lavigne <klavigne@...> 
wrote:

> Hi All,
> All chemicals and medicines are toxic to humans depending on dosage 
> (XX.XX mg/kg etc.).
> In the not to distant past I was a street Paramedic and in school during 
> our pediatrics lecture we were presented with several cases of Iron 
> overdose in infants or young children.
> This usually occurred when the child's mother was taking prenatal 
> vitamins prior to conceiving a second child.
> (Actually they are often taken from thought of conception until after the 
> resulting child is weaned from breast feeding.)
> Prenatal vitamins have a high Iron content and although extremely 
> beneficial to the mother, a child can easily overdose on them. But don't 
> take my word for it, check this out: 
> http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/plants/toxicagents/iron.html
> Scroll about half way down to see what I'm talking about.
>
> One of my most memorable quotes from one of my instructors was:
> "Are you sure about that dosage? You want to cure your patient not kill 
> them"
>
> Have a good day,
> Kevin

--- JanRwl@... wrote:

> HOW, please?  

I was going to take some time and figure it out and
try it this weekend.


Best regards

Marvin Dickens

=====
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I'm quite sure there is information about it on the www.
I have once read about this. I may have searched for "pcb etchant 
regenerating" or maybe ferric cloride regenerating or fe3cl regenerating or 
similar.

sorry i have no url.

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:08:41 -0800 (PST), mpdickens <md30022@...> 
wrote:

>
> --- JanRwl@... wrote:
>
>> HOW, please?
>
> I was going to take some time and figure it out and
> try it this weekend.
>
>
> Best regards
>
> Marvin Dickens
>

In article <bp32ri+dkhk@...>,
   Steve <alienrelics@...> wrote:

> Let's not forget the dangers of DHMO, Dihydrogen Monoxide. It is
> commonly used in industrial processes as coolant, solvent, etc. It is
> highly dangerous in large quantities yet remains an uncontrolled
> substance. It seems to have a fatality "threshold" that varies from
> person to person, from day to day. Many survive tremendous exposures,
> where others have been found dead from ingesting only a cup. It has
> been detected in many autopsies, yet we never hear any public outcry.

:-)

-- 
 __  __  __  __      __ ___   _____________________________________________
|__||__)/ __/  \|\ ||_   |   /
|  ||  \\__/\__/| \||__  |  /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines
___________________________/ stuartwinsor@...

101 uses for a Pentium: No2 - A greenhouse heater.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Lavigne" <klavigne@c...>
wrote:
> Hi All,
>     All chemicals and medicines are toxic to humans depending on
dosage (XX.XX mg/kg etc.).

Let's not forget the dangers of DHMO, Dihydrogen Monoxide. It is
commonly used in industrial processes as coolant, solvent, etc. It is
highly dangerous in large quantities yet remains an uncontrolled
substance. It seems to have a fatality "threshold" that varies from
person to person, from day to day. Many survive tremendous exposures,
where others have been found dead from ingesting only a cup. It has
been detected in many autopsies, yet we never hear any public outcry.

Before anyone starts typing, read that again, if you find yourself
very upset now you should type "dihydrogen monoxide" into a search
engine and read up on it.

Steve

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, mpdickens <md30022@y...> wrote:
> 
> --- JanRwl@A... wrote:
> 
> > HOW, please?  
> 
> I was going to take some time and figure it out and
> try it this weekend.

When you do, please either upload it in Files or post it on a website
and add it to the Links section under Acid Etching.

Thanks,
Steve

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:19:46 -0000, Steve <alienrelics@...> wrote:

> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Lavigne" <klavigne@c...>
> wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> All chemicals and medicines are toxic to humans depending on
> dosage (XX.XX mg/kg etc.).
>
> Let's not forget the dangers of DHMO, Dihydrogen Monoxide. It is
> commonly used in industrial processes as coolant, solvent, etc. It is
> highly dangerous in large quantities yet remains an uncontrolled
> substance. It seems to have a fatality "threshold" that varies from
> person to person, from day to day. Many survive tremendous exposures,
> where others have been found dead from ingesting only a cup. It has
> been detected in many autopsies, yet we never hear any public outcry.
>
> Before anyone starts typing, read that again, if you find yourself
> very upset now you should type "dihydrogen monoxide" into a search
> engine and read up on it.
>
> Steve
>
>

*ggg*, funny, these "questions" were also asked here on a tv show not long 
ago..
amazing amount wanted to ban it...

you can get most people to think what you want if you put your questions 
right.

i didn't expect that much webpages about it ;-)

st

I ingest DHMO by the cup all the time, but I try not to inhale it.  In 
fact, my doctor suggests that I ingest more DHMO than I do!


Peter 




"Stefan Trethan" <stefan_trethan@...>
11/14/2003 09:51 AM
Please respond to Homebrew_PCBs

 
        To:     homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com
        cc: 

        Subject:        Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: How to handle Ferric Chloride safely and in 
environmental...


On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:19:46 -0000, Steve <alienrelics@...> wrote:

> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Lavigne" <klavigne@c...>
> wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> All chemicals and medicines are toxic to humans depending on
> dosage (XX.XX mg/kg etc.).
>
> Let's not forget the dangers of DHMO, Dihydrogen Monoxide. It is
> commonly used in industrial processes as coolant, solvent, etc. It is
> highly dangerous in large quantities yet remains an uncontrolled
> substance. It seems to have a fatality "threshold" that varies from
> person to person, from day to day. Many survive tremendous exposures,
> where others have been found dead from ingesting only a cup. It has
> been detected in many autopsies, yet we never hear any public outcry.
>
> Before anyone starts typing, read that again, if you find yourself
> very upset now you should type "dihydrogen monoxide" into a search
> engine and read up on it.
>
> Steve
>
>

*ggg*, funny, these "questions" were also asked here on a tv show not long 

ago..
amazing amount wanted to ban it...

you can get most people to think what you want if you put your questions 
right.

i didn't expect that much webpages about it ;-)

st


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On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:21:37 -0800, Peter Welty <peter.welty@...> 
wrote:

> I ingest DHMO by the cup all the time, but I try not to inhale it.  In 
> fact, my doctor suggests that I ingest more DHMO than I do!
>
>
> Peter
>

Maybe you get immune if you slowly increase the dose ;-)

like with snake poison....

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:21:37 -0800, Peter Welty <peter.welty@n...> 
> wrote:
> 
> > I ingest DHMO by the cup all the time, but I try not to inhale it.
 In 
> > fact, my doctor suggests that I ingest more DHMO than I do!
> >
> >
> > Peter
> >
> 
> Maybe you get immune if you slowly increase the dose ;-)
> 
> like with snake poison....

See what I started?

Hey, back to the original subject, sort of: renewing Ferric Chloride
so you don't -have- to toss it.

Why not just stick some soft iron (big nails) in the ferric chloride
and ramp the current up to an amp per square inch? Is that about right
for plating? Just make sure you clean the nails! Nails are covered
with oil, you don't want to adulterate your etch bath. And don't use
plated nails... Hey, if I don't say it, someone will grab some roofing
nails without thinking about it.

Steve

JanRwl@... wrote:

> In a message dated 11/13/2003 1:48:21 PM Central Standard Time, 
> alan@... writes:
> Still, recharge the stuff instead of throwing it away.  It should be 
> cheaper to use nails and plate the copper back out than to buy new etchant.
> Alan!  Describe for us (again?) how an ignernt non-chemist can DO that???  
> Thanks!
> 

   I have one running right now.  Take a small power supply, (mine is a 
+ and - 5V test supply I made for ICs, using around an amp at the 10 
volts for this for my 10 oz or so of etchant) and two of the aligator 
test clip leads and two nails.  Hook one nail up to + with one lead, and 
the other nail to -.  Stick them both in the used etchant and the + nail 
will be eaten away and give up iron and the - nail collects the copper. 
  Note the copper will be like an old penny brown, not the bright shiny 
copper of a real electroplating process, and it also will have some of 
the iron mixed in.  It's extremely easy and much cheaper than new 
etchant.  Since you're replacing the iron by the new nail being eaten 
away, the original iron that was in the FeCl stays in the jar.  You 
should have already noticed it though as the brown sludge that developed 
as the iron was being replaced by the etched copper.  Can't easily get 
that same iron back in though since it's spread all over and hard to 
electrify.

   Note to get bright common nails or similar, you want just the iron or 
steel not zinc plating etc.  Also leave the nails partially out, so your 
test clips aren't in there.

Alan

>
> I have one running right now.  Take a small power supply, (mine is a + 
> and - 5V test supply I made for ICs, using around an amp at the 10 volts 
> for this for my 10 oz or so of etchant) and two of the aligator test clip 
> leads and two nails.  Hook one nail up to + with one lead, and the other 
> nail to -.  Stick them both in the used etchant and the + nail will be 
> eaten away and give up iron and the - nail collects the copper. Note the 
> copper will be like an old penny brown, not the bright shiny copper of a 
> real electroplating process, and it also will have some of the iron mixed 
> in.  It's extremely easy and much cheaper than new etchant.  Since you're 
> replacing the iron by the new nail being eaten away, the original iron 
> that was in the FeCl stays in the jar.  You should have already noticed 
> it though as the brown sludge that developed as the iron was being 
> replaced by the etched copper.  Can't easily get that same iron back in 
> though since it's spread all over and hard to electrify.
>
> Note to get bright common nails or similar, you want just the iron or 
> steel not zinc plating etc.  Also leave the nails partially out, so your 
> test clips aren't in there.
>
> Alan
>

That sounds really easy.
Do you have any gas bubbles at the nails?
any smell of clor?

If i remember correct in the regenerating text i have read there was 
written
about using either cheap copper sheeting at the side where the copper is 
deposited or
use stainless steel rods. the copper sheeting would have to be thrown away, 
but
from the stainless rods you can just pull off a tube of copper (with some 
force).

I don't remember which material was suggested at the side where the 
material is eaten up.
But your explaination "replacing the iron" makes sense (although no iron is 
consumed, only
the amount which deposits with the copper).

st

>    I have one running right now.

How long have you been using the same fecl and
regenerating it? 


Best

Marvin Dickens

=====
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http://www.p-m-services.co.uk/pcb_etch.htm

please read at the very bottom.

This is not the page i remember, as it doesn't say much about fecl 
regenerating.
But the interesting thing it they use lead or graphite anodes.



the sulphuric acid is in my opinion the choice if one wants to make tin 
masked pcbs.


st

if you please also have a look at

http://www.proplate.com/tin-plating.htm
mostly to read this sentence:
"Tin and its salts are reported to be non-toxic and non-carcinogenic and 
are approved for food container and food contact applications. "

So i guess I was right that tin electroplating is much safer than tin 
electroLESS plating.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan > 
> Do you have any gas bubbles at the nails?
> any smell of clor?

Thats what I was thinking too.  I played with doing this a few months 
ago and noticed I had the PSU cranked up too high and started 
bubbling up some gas (clorine?).  Lowered the voltage and it seemed 
to stop.  I'd still suggest that maybe this would be a thing to do 
outdoors.

The copper plates really fast BTW, and probably would be a good quick 
way to keep the solution going.  I got carried away and started 
plating anything stainless/metal I could find and ended up 
contaminating the bath so I tossed it in favor of a new big bottle.  
We'll see again when this one gets too slow.

Well, the copper is electroplating out. Here is my
setup:
                    1 AMP
                  (-)   (+) 
                   |     | 
                  /       \
                 /         \
               (-)         (+)
                |           |
                |           |
            ---------------------  Top of fecl2
                |           |
            ---------    ---------     
            |  (-)  |    |  (+)  |
            | iron  |    | iron  |
            | plate |    | plate |
            |cathode|    | anode |
            ---------    ---------

I'm thinking that if I adjust the ph by adding a
little hcl, the colloidal copper solids (The dirty
white lumps in the bottom of the tank) will dissolve
back into solution. I suspect this would make the
process much more efficient and faster. I'm going to
get some litmus paper and see what the ph of fresh,
unused ferric chloride is and then adjust the used
fecl3 to match it. 

Best regards

Marvin Dickens

=====
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Stefan Trethan wrote:

> 
> That sounds really easy.
> Do you have any gas bubbles at the nails?
> any smell of clor?


   A few bubbles on the nails here and there, not much.  Did warm the 
liquid a bit since it was 10 W total, but not enough to think twice about.





> 
> If i remember correct in the regenerating text i have read there was 
> written
> about using either cheap copper sheeting at the side where the copper is 
> deposited or
> use stainless steel rods. the copper sheeting would have to be thrown away, 
> but
> from the stainless rods you can just pull off a tube of copper (with some 
> force).


   Likewise I just used TP and wiped the collecting nail off several 
times to get better contact.  Note that after all the copper is removed 
that the current will still probably transport iron from the + electrode 
to the -.  At first I got black/green junk, then got brown.  I think the 
brown may have just been iron, and you should be able to keep getting 
that as long as you add a new + nail.  Note you have water and air 
working too, I added just a bit of water to make things a bit more fluid 
and immediately had some rust on the + the next time I wiped it.  I make 
small boards and minimize the etched area, and previously threw it out 
just like everyone else, so haven't had to do it just ran into my nails 
and did it today.  But have known how to for quite some time from 
several websites and lists.  Next comes real copper plating and 
anodizing aluminum with all the color dying, looks like fun! :)


http://www3.telus.net/chemelec/Projects/Etching.htm

   This also looks good, just etch the copper with electricity until it 
loses contact, then finish with FeCl as normal.  But I don't do enough 
boards to justify the extra stuff, still may try it soon have some 
battery acid lying around.

   I believe that electroplating nickel is also relatively easy and is a 
good setup to put on the copper for PCBs.  But figuring a way to have 
all the traces connected for plating without it being a PITA to 
disconnect them later is not as easy.  Can always cut apart the boards 
as they do the LCD boards for gold electroplating, it's just hardly 
worth it for something when you're not making a million of them.

Alan

I'm thinking that an el-cheapo ps to use to
electroplate the copper out of the ferric chloride
would be the world famous (Much overused...), out of
date adjustable voltage power supply that can be built
using an LM317. The upside is the schematic is on the
back of the packaging if you purchase it at Radio
shack (And the Radio shack schematic it matches the
schematic in the app note...). Further, you can 1.5
amps out of the LM317 (If you put a big piece of
aluminum as a heat sink).

Now, I know that there are more modern adjustable
voltage regulators that have more desirable
characteristics. Some of the products made by Maxim
(Among others...) come to mind. But, my reasoning
behind this is the LM317 is probably the most widely
available voltage regulator on earth (That's
adjustable using inexpensive discretes...) which would
make fecl regeneration within the reach of anyone (Who
has purchased fecl).


Best regards


Marvin Dickens

=====
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How important is the 1 amp? Do I have to limit it to 1 amp or will it
draw up to one amp?

My power supply will deliver about 20amps at 5 volt (recycled computer
PSU) so I am going to need to put a resistor in there it limit it.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpdickens [mailto:md30022@...] 
> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 6:07 PM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Etchant regeneration by electroplating
> 
> 
> Well, the copper is electroplating out. Here is my
> setup:
>                     1 AMP
>                   (-)   (+) 
>                    |     | 
>                   /       \
>                  /         \
>                (-)         (+)
>                 |           |
>                 |           |
>             ---------------------  Top of fecl2
>                 |           |
>             ---------    ---------     
>             |  (-)  |    |  (+)  |
>             | iron  |    | iron  |
>             | plate |    | plate |
>             |cathode|    | anode |
>             ---------    ---------
> 
> I'm thinking that if I adjust the ph by adding a
> little hcl, the colloidal copper solids (The dirty
> white lumps in the bottom of the tank) will dissolve
> back into solution. I suspect this would make the
> process much more efficient and faster. I'm going to
> get some litmus paper and see what the ph of fresh,
> unused ferric chloride is and then adjust the used
> fecl3 to match it. 
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Marvin Dickens
> 
> =====
> Registered Linux User No. 80253
> If you use linux, get counted at: 
> http://www.linuxcounter.org
> 
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Anthony Toft wrote:

> How important is the 1 amp? Do I have to limit it to 1 amp or will it
> draw up to one amp?
> 
> My power supply will deliver about 20amps at 5 volt (recycled computer
> PSU) so I am going to need to put a resistor in there it limit it.
> 


   With just 5 volts mine only drew 300 to 400 ma or so.  Then I bridged 
the + and - five to get 10 and got 800 to 1000 ma.  I also only used 1 
nail on each end, using more would expose more surface and likely allow 
more current, and you can also only put the nails in so far to limit. 
Don't think you need to worry about the resistor, just put your meter on 
amps and in series so you can see what it's drawing and you'll get the 
hang of it as you move the nails around.

   Now I have to make a board to see how much better it etches, it was 
getting a bit slow on the last one.

Alan

> More of interest is if the ferric cloride is a danger to wastewater 
> cleaning facilities.
> It's just not ok to make them trouble if you can avoid it.


The first time I actually saw Ferric Chloride used in an industrial 
application was in a wastewater treatment system!  I asked what it 
was used for and they told me that it was used to precipitate out 
other chemicals (if I remember correctly).  I was also supprised that 
the ferric chloride was stored/used in a very large open topped poly 
tank.

Closer to topic....

I too am wanting to try regenerating some of my used ferric chloride 
using the iron nail - Power supply method.

Is there any way to know when to stop the plating process or is this 
simply trial and error at this point????

johnman_001 wrote:
>>More of interest is if the ferric cloride is a danger to wastewater 
>>cleaning facilities.
>>It's just not ok to make them trouble if you can avoid it.
> 
> 
> 
> The first time I actually saw Ferric Chloride used in an industrial 
> application was in a wastewater treatment system!  I asked what it 
> was used for and they told me that it was used to precipitate out 
> other chemicals (if I remember correctly).  I was also supprised that 
> the ferric chloride was stored/used in a very large open topped poly 
> tank.


   Look up cow manure, they use it by the 5 gallon bucket to leach out 
metals for treating waste.  But you're also not pouring unused Ferric 
Chloride down the drain either.  They're using it to lock up worse 
items, you're adding it and worse items to the water.



> 
> Closer to topic....
> 
> I too am wanting to try regenerating some of my used ferric chloride 
> using the iron nail - Power supply method.
> 
> Is there any way to know when to stop the plating process or is this 
> simply trial and error at this point????
> 


   First few times I got dark gunk when I wiped the terminal then I was 
getting an even brown.  I believe the even brown was iron oxide, it was 
the same color as a recording tape or floppy disk.  That should mean 
most of the copper was gone, but I haven't etched another board yet to 
see how it goes.  Just do it, nails are cheap and about the worst you 
will do is waste an extra nail or two plating just iron onto the cathode.

Alan

Last night, I decided to see how well a copper cathode
would work. It works better than an iron cathode (At
least for me...) So, now my annode is iron and my
cathode is copper.


Best regards

Marvin Dickens

=====
Registered Linux User No. 80253
If you use linux, get counted at: 
http://www.linuxcounter.org

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