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No HASL

No HASL

2013-01-11 by Rick Sparber

I was playing around with some scrap pieces of circuit board I etched and
drilled in order to find a way to simulate the HASL (Hot Air Solder
Leveling) process. This process puts down a very thin coat of solder over
the copper. The solder protects the copper plus makes soldering in
components easier.



I found that I could brush the board with flux. Then I built up a small bump
of solder on the ground plane. Using my soldering iron as a paint brush, I
dipped into the bump and then painted the copper. When done, I scrubbed the
board with alcohol. Worked great. I had no shorted paths.










Rick



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

2013-01-11 by KeepIt SimpleStupid

I did it this way: I used a frying pan, peanut oil and something to keep the board off the bottom of the pan.

Solder dip and wet rag.

The oil residue was tough to remove. I would not use this method on critical circuits though.



------------------------------
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 1:34 PM EST Rick Sparber wrote:

>I was playing around with some scrap pieces of circuit board I etched and
>drilled in order to find a way to simulate the HASL (Hot Air Solder
>Leveling) process. This process puts down a very thin coat of solder over
>the copper. The solder protects the copper plus makes soldering in
>components easier.
>
>
>
>I found that I could brush the board with flux. Then I built up a small bump
>of solder on the ground plane. Using my soldering iron as a paint brush, I
>dipped into the bump and then painted the copper. When done, I scrubbed the
>board with alcohol. Worked great. I had no shorted paths.
>

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

2013-01-11 by Rick Sparber

Does sound rather messy but maybe fast. I know you can get a fine mix of
flux and solder that is used for surface mount. I wonder if you could spread
some of this paste on the board and then cooked it in the pan. Is there an
easy way to form tiny particles of solder? I know the first lead shot was
formed by pouring it from a great height and letting it land in a big pail
of water.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of KeepIt SimpleStupid
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:40 PM
To: homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL


I did it this way: I used a frying pan, peanut oil and something to keep
the board off the bottom of the pan.

Solder dip and wet rag.

The oil residue was tough to remove. I would not use this method on
critical circuits though.



------------------------------
On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 1:34 PM EST Rick Sparber wrote:

>I was playing around with some scrap pieces of circuit board I etched
>and drilled in order to find a way to simulate the HASL (Hot Air Solder
>Leveling) process. This process puts down a very thin coat of solder
>over the copper. The solder protects the copper plus makes soldering in
>components easier.
>
>
>
>I found that I could brush the board with flux. Then I built up a small
>bump of solder on the ground plane. Using my soldering iron as a paint
>brush, I dipped into the bump and then painted the copper. When done, I
>scrubbed the board with alcohol. Worked great. I had no shorted paths.
>




------------------------------------

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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

2013-01-11 by Todd F. Carney

Another way to protect the copper and to enhance solderability is to use an
electroless tin-plating solution. I used to use this all the time when I
made prototype boards for a research lab. There are a number of suppliers,
but here's a common one that has a dry-chemical (mix with water) called
Tinnit:

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/ER-18/TINNIT-BRIGHT-TIN-PLATE/1.html

Cheap at $9.50. Read the one "customer comment"--you might want to
experiment with the dilution rate.

73,

Todd
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
K7TFC / Medford, Oregon, USA / CN82ni / UTC-8
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QRP (CW & SSB) / EmComm / SOTA / Homebrew / Design


On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 12:40 PM, KeepIt SimpleStupid <
keepitsimplestupid@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
>
> I did it this way: I used a frying pan, peanut oil and something to keep
> the board off the bottom of the pan.
>
> Solder dip and wet rag.
>
> The oil residue was tough to remove. I would not use this method on
> critical circuits though.
>
> ------------------------------
> On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 1:34 PM EST Rick Sparber wrote:
>
> >I was playing around with some scrap pieces of circuit board I etched and
> >drilled in order to find a way to simulate the HASL (Hot Air Solder
> >Leveling) process. This process puts down a very thin coat of solder over
> >the copper. The solder protects the copper plus makes soldering in
> >components easier.
> >
> >
> >
> >I found that I could brush the board with flux. Then I built up a small
> bump
> >of solder on the ground plane. Using my soldering iron as a paint brush, I
> >dipped into the bump and then painted the copper. When done, I scrubbed
> the
> >board with alcohol. Worked great. I had no shorted paths.
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

2013-01-12 by KeepIt SimpleStupid

It definitely was pretty quick. I basically used the same sort of technique for tinning copper pipe except for the heating method. With pipe, you clean, flux, add solder and wipe with a wet rag. If it doesn't take, you sand and do it again.

I havn't tried the SMT assembly technique that basically uses a flat block of say aluminum in a pan. I would imagine that that would work too especially if you used a decent thermometer.

I was also using a gas stove as well.

It's entirely possible that a toaster oven and an aluminum plate would work too.

The soldering iron apply technique is too slow.

--- On Fri, 1/11/13, Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...>
Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, January 11, 2013, 3:48 PM


























Does sound rather messy but maybe fast. I know you can get a fine mix of

flux and solder that is used for surface mount. I wonder if you could spread

some of this paste on the board and then cooked it in the pan. Is there an

easy way to form tiny particles of solder? I know the first lead shot was

formed by pouring it from a great height and letting it land in a big pail

of water.



Rick



-----Original Message-----

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]

On Behalf Of KeepIt SimpleStupid

Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:40 PM

To: homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL



I did it this way: I used a frying pan, peanut oil and something to keep

the board off the bottom of the pan.



Solder dip and wet rag.



The oil residue was tough to remove. I would not use this method on

critical circuits though.



------------------------------

On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 1:34 PM EST Rick Sparber wrote:



>I was playing around with some scrap pieces of circuit board I etched

>and drilled in order to find a way to simulate the HASL (Hot Air Solder

>Leveling) process. This process puts down a very thin coat of solder

>over the copper. The solder protects the copper plus makes soldering in

>components easier.

>

>

>

>I found that I could brush the board with flux. Then I built up a small

>bump of solder on the ground plane. Using my soldering iron as a paint

>brush, I dipped into the bump and then painted the copper. When done, I

>scrubbed the board with alcohol. Worked great. I had no shorted paths.

>



------------------------------------



Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links



























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

2013-01-12 by Eldon Brown

On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 8:03 PM, KeepIt SimpleStupid <
keepitsimplestupid@...> wrote:

>
> >I found that I could brush the board with flux. Then I built up a small
>
> >bump of solder on the ground plane. Using my soldering iron as a paint
>
> >brush, I dipped into the bump and then painted the copper. When done, I
>
> >scrubbed the board with alcohol. Worked great. I had no shorted paths.
>
> >


I do the same, but I include a short section of Solder Wick under the tip
of the iron, it acts like a brush, it tins and wicks at the same time.
After clean-up I use Scotch Bright to remove the shine, because the
un-buffed surface is very bright and distracting while mounting parts.

Regards,
Eldon Brown

73 - Eldon - WA0UWH - CN88xc - http://WA0UWH.blogspot.com/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

2013-01-12 by Stefan Trethan

You can use plumbing solder paste (with flux) and paint the board with
it., then you heat the board with hot air or a hotplate..
The paste can be thinned with water to make it easier to apply, and it
is much cheaper than SMD paste.
Excess paste in bare areas and flux just washes off with hot water.

There will be lumps if you apply too much or unevenly, in that case
carefully wipe it off with a paper towel wad while molten.

ST

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

2013-01-12 by Rick Sparber

KISS,

The idea of soaking my board in cooking oil does not thrill me. But I can see how it would do a great job of conducting the heat. I am surprised it doesn't contaminate the surface to the point where solder does not bond to the copper.

Given a single sided board, I don't see how a hot plate could work. By the time the traces were hot enough to melt solder, wouldn't the opposite side be black? Now, a toaster oven might work but how do you get in there to distribute the solder? Or are you assuming that solder paste has been put down first. I looked up the cost of this mix of flux and particles of solder - $$$.

As for speed, I only tried it on a 1" x 1" piece of scrap so didn't think about speed. On a large board, I can see that getting rather old.

I'm not ready to abandon the basic idea of "painting" the board with solder from a hot brush. My soldering tip gives me a brush about 1/16" wide. But if the brush was 1/2" or even 1" wide, this could go very fast.

Rick



-----Original Message-----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of KeepIt SimpleStupid
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 9:04 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

It definitely was pretty quick. I basically used the same sort of technique for tinning copper pipe except for the heating method. With pipe, you clean, flux, add solder and wipe with a wet rag. If it doesn't take, you sand and do it again.

I havn't tried the SMT assembly technique that basically uses a flat block of say aluminum in a pan. I would imagine that that would work too especially if you used a decent thermometer.

I was also using a gas stove as well.

It's entirely possible that a toaster oven and an aluminum plate would work too.

The soldering iron apply technique is too slow.

--- On Fri, 1/11/13, Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...> wrote:

From: Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...>
Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, January 11, 2013, 3:48 PM


























Does sound rather messy but maybe fast. I know you can get a fine mix of

flux and solder that is used for surface mount. I wonder if you could spread

some of this paste on the board and then cooked it in the pan. Is there an

easy way to form tiny particles of solder? I know the first lead shot was

formed by pouring it from a great height and letting it land in a big pail

of water.



Rick



-----Original Message-----

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]

On Behalf Of KeepIt SimpleStupid

Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:40 PM

To: homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL



I did it this way: I used a frying pan, peanut oil and something to keep

the board off the bottom of the pan.



Solder dip and wet rag.



The oil residue was tough to remove. I would not use this method on

critical circuits though.



------------------------------

On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 1:34 PM EST Rick Sparber wrote:



>I was playing around with some scrap pieces of circuit board I etched

>and drilled in order to find a way to simulate the HASL (Hot Air Solder

>Leveling) process. This process puts down a very thin coat of solder

>over the copper. The solder protects the copper plus makes soldering in

>components easier.

>

>

>

>I found that I could brush the board with flux. Then I built up a small

>bump of solder on the ground plane. Using my soldering iron as a paint

>brush, I dipped into the bump and then painted the copper. When done, I

>scrubbed the board with alcohol. Worked great. I had no shorted paths.

>



------------------------------------



Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links



























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

2013-01-12 by Rick Sparber

Eldon,

I really like the idea of using Solder Wick as the "paint brush". In fact,
it would not be hard to make a tool that would clamp a piece of Solder Wick
to a T shaped tip. Although a bit unwieldy, I wonder if it could attach to
my soldering gun to give extra heat.

Thanks!

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Eldon Brown
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 11:32 PM
To: Homebrew PCBs
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 8:03 PM, KeepIt SimpleStupid <
keepitsimplestupid@...> wrote:

>
> >I found that I could brush the board with flux. Then I built up a
> >small
>
> >bump of solder on the ground plane. Using my soldering iron as a
> >paint
>
> >brush, I dipped into the bump and then painted the copper. When done,
> >I
>
> >scrubbed the board with alcohol. Worked great. I had no shorted paths.
>
> >


I do the same, but I include a short section of Solder Wick under the tip of
the iron, it acts like a brush, it tins and wicks at the same time.
After clean-up I use Scotch Bright to remove the shine, because the
un-buffed surface is very bright and distracting while mounting parts.

Regards,
Eldon Brown

73 - Eldon - WA0UWH - CN88xc - http://WA0UWH.blogspot.com/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

2013-01-12 by Rick Sparber

ST,

I failed to mention that I am using plumber's solder paste and paint the
board using an old tooth brush. I tried reflowing the paste with my hot air
gun but it didn't seem to matter. The brush put it on thin enough.

The SMD paste contains tiny specs of solder so it is not the same as
plumber's paste. It would be cool if there was a way to take 1/8" diameter
solder and grind it up into tiny particles. Then it could be mixed with
plumber's paste and used to coat the board. Heat the board in a toaster oven
and it would be coated. Then wash to remove excess flux.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Stefan Trethan
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 7:01 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

You can use plumbing solder paste (with flux) and paint the board with it.,
then you heat the board with hot air or a hotplate..
The paste can be thinned with water to make it easier to apply, and it is
much cheaper than SMD paste.
Excess paste in bare areas and flux just washes off with hot water.

There will be lumps if you apply too much or unevenly, in that case
carefully wipe it off with a paper towel wad while molten.

ST


------------------------------------

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links

Re: No HASL

2013-01-12 by designer_craig

Back in the late 70's I worked for a company that had a captive PCB plant. Boards were plated with SnPb as the resist for etching. The plating was fairly heavy and had a rough surface. The boards were placed in a bath of hot peanut oil to level the solder surface and then cleaned. Solder mask was then applied with a silk screen followed by the ledgends with anohter silk screen.

Craig

Show quoted textHide quoted text
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, KeepIt SimpleStupid wrote:
>
>
> I did it this way: I used a frying pan, peanut oil and something to keep the board off the bottom of the pan.
>
> Solder dip and wet rag.
>
> The oil residue was tough to remove. I would not use this method on critical circuits though.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 1:34 PM EST Rick Sparber wrote:
>
> >I was playing around with some scrap pieces of circuit board I etched and
> >drilled in order to find a way to simulate the HASL (Hot Air Solder
> >Leveling) process. This process puts down a very thin coat of solder over
> >the copper. The solder protects the copper plus makes soldering in
> >components easier.
> >
> >
> >
> >I found that I could brush the board with flux. Then I built up a small bump
> >of solder on the ground plane. Using my soldering iron as a paint brush, I
> >dipped into the bump and then painted the copper. When done, I scrubbed the
> >board with alcohol. Worked great. I had no shorted paths.
> >
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

2013-01-12 by Stefan Trethan

Have you tried solder bearing plumbing paste? They make a paste that
contains small particles of solder similar to SMD paste, not just
flux. <http://www.hausundwerkstatt24.de/bilder/produkte/gross/8015.png>
I used that and it worked just fine, melting it with a hot air gun.

Regarding the hotplate, it does work to heat through the board from
the bottom. I often reflow SMD solder with that method, and there are
industrial hot plate ovens just like it for single sided boards. I use
240°C for leaded solder. Not sure how much of a disadvantage the
(leadfree) plumbing paste may be with a hotplate.

I believe roller tinning (using a solder bath and transfer roller just
like a printing press) is superior. It would also not be hard to make
a tinning "iron" which holds a bunch of wadded up copper or brass
strands as a paintbrush.

ST





Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 3:25 PM, Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...> wrote:
> ST,
>
> I failed to mention that I am using plumber's solder paste and paint the
> board using an old tooth brush. I tried reflowing the paste with my hot air
> gun but it didn't seem to matter. The brush put it on thin enough.
>
> The SMD paste contains tiny specs of solder so it is not the same as
> plumber's paste. It would be cool if there was a way to take 1/8" diameter
> solder and grind it up into tiny particles. Then it could be mixed with
> plumber's paste and used to coat the board. Heat the board in a toaster oven
> and it would be coated. Then wash to remove excess flux.
>
> Rick
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

2013-01-12 by Missouri Guy

FYI...there is some flux that already has solder particles
in it. The brand I have in my plumbing supplies is called
"C-Flux", made in the USA by "Rectorseal" of Houston, TX.
http://www.rectorseal.com/C-Flux.php Note that there
are links to the datasheet.

I purchased a 3-oz jar at a surplus store for 59-cents. Amazon
has it for over $5!!

The product "cleans and tins" in one operation and is lead-free.
I'm pretty sure there are other brands out there that are
virutally the same thing. One nice thing about this product
is that it seems to keep "forever". Just add a little water
and mix if it starts to dry out.

BTW, the flux in a lot of plumbing products contains forms
of Chloride, an acid. Be sure to clean ALL of that off the board
to avoid corrosion problems later on. It is water soluble.

Having said that, I just wonder if this C-Flux stuff could be used
for SMDs? I.E., in place of the expensive paste that has a shelf
life. Has anyone ever tried it?

Per the datasheet, avoid breathing in any of the fumes.

Charlie

On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 07:25:51 -0700 "Rick Sparber" <rgsparber@...>
writes:

ST,

I failed to mention that I am using plumber's solder paste and paint the
board using an old tooth brush. I tried reflowing the paste with my hot
air
gun but it didn't seem to matter. The brush put it on thin enough.

The SMD paste contains tiny specs of solder so it is not the same as
plumber's paste. It would be cool if there was a way to take 1/8"
diameter
solder and grind it up into tiny particles. Then it could be mixed with
plumber's paste and used to coat the board. Heat the board in a toaster
oven
and it would be coated. Then wash to remove excess flux.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Stefan Trethan
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 7:01 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

You can use plumbing solder paste (with flux) and paint the board with
it.,
then you heat the board with hot air or a hotplate..
The paste can be thinned with water to make it easier to apply, and it is
much cheaper than SMD paste.
Excess paste in bare areas and flux just washes off with hot water.

There will be lumps if you apply too much or unevenly, in that case
carefully wipe it off with a paper towel wad while molten.

ST

------------------------------------

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

2013-01-12 by Stefan Trethan

I doubt you would be able to clean the flux well enough from under the parts.
Also there may be some problems with parts flipping off the board like
popcorn, that happens if you try to thin old SMD paste.

Dealextreme has some cheap SMD paste, but it goes bad fairly quickly.
Keep refrigerated for longer shelf life.

ST


Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Missouri Guy <n0tt1@...> wrote:

> Having said that, I just wonder if this C-Flux stuff could be used
> for SMDs? I.E., in place of the expensive paste that has a shelf
> life. Has anyone ever tried it?

Re: No HASL

2013-01-12 by psykhon@...

Thinking "inside the box" what would requiere to build a small and simple HASL machine?

-A small tank of stainless steel, one from a kitchen supply store will do

-Heating element, the easiest part, a spare part for a electric grill or similar

-Thermostat and PT100, this should cost less than $100

-Air knife, may be built from an electric blower and some tubing

-The insertion mechanism is something i didnt figure it out yet, but a rod with an alligator clamp should work

-Some solder bars

Am I missing something?
Did anybody work with a profesional machine and can throw some ligth?



Show quoted textHide quoted text
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Sparber" wrote:
>
> ST,
>
> I failed to mention that I am using plumber's solder paste and paint the
> board using an old tooth brush. I tried reflowing the paste with my hot air
> gun but it didn't seem to matter. The brush put it on thin enough.
>
> The SMD paste contains tiny specs of solder so it is not the same as
> plumber's paste. It would be cool if there was a way to take 1/8" diameter
> solder and grind it up into tiny particles. Then it could be mixed with
> plumber's paste and used to coat the board. Heat the board in a toaster oven
> and it would be coated. Then wash to remove excess flux.
>
> Rick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Stefan Trethan
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 7:01 AM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL
>
> You can use plumbing solder paste (with flux) and paint the board with it.,
> then you heat the board with hot air or a hotplate..
> The paste can be thinned with water to make it easier to apply, and it is
> much cheaper than SMD paste.
> Excess paste in bare areas and flux just washes off with hot water.
>
> There will be lumps if you apply too much or unevenly, in that case
> carefully wipe it off with a paper towel wad while molten.
>
> ST
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

2013-01-12 by Todd F. Carney

Rick,

There are a number of excellent video tutorials and demos of various
homebrew methods to reflow solder. In them you will find many examples of
using either a hot plate, an electric frying pan (without oil), an electric
griddle, or a toaster oven. In each demo I've seen, the narrator suggested
using dedicated pans or ovens and not the ones you prepare food in. They
may seem to defy logic ("Given a single sided board, I don't see how a hot
plate could work. By the time the traces were hot enough to melt solder,
wouldn't the opposite side be black?"), but they very clearly work.

YouTube is your friend.

73,

Todd
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
K7TFC / Medford, Oregon, USA / CN82ni / UTC-8
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QRP (CW & SSB) / EmComm / SOTA / Homebrew / Design


Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 6:06 AM, Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> KISS,
>
> The idea of soaking my board in cooking oil does not thrill me. But I can
> see how it would do a great job of conducting the heat. I am surprised it
> doesn't contaminate the surface to the point where solder does not bond to
> the copper.
>
> Given a single sided board, I don't see how a hot plate could work. By the
> time the traces were hot enough to melt solder, wouldn't the opposite side
> be black? Now, a toaster oven might work but how do you get in there to
> distribute the solder? Or are you assuming that solder paste has been put
> down first. I looked up the cost of this mix of flux and particles of
> solder - $$$.
>
> As for speed, I only tried it on a 1" x 1" piece of scrap so didn't think
> about speed. On a large board, I can see that getting rather old.
>
> I'm not ready to abandon the basic idea of "painting" the board with
> solder from a hot brush. My soldering tip gives me a brush about 1/16"
> wide. But if the brush was 1/2" or even 1" wide, this could go very fast.
>
> Rick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of KeepIt SimpleStupid
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 9:04 PM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL
>
> It definitely was pretty quick. I basically used the same sort of
> technique for tinning copper pipe except for the heating method. With pipe,
> you clean, flux, add solder and wipe with a wet rag. If it doesn't take,
> you sand and do it again.
>
> I havn't tried the SMT assembly technique that basically uses a flat block
> of say aluminum in a pan. I would imagine that that would work too
> especially if you used a decent thermometer.
>
> I was also using a gas stove as well.
>
> It's entirely possible that a toaster oven and an aluminum plate would
> work too.
>
> The soldering iron apply technique is too slow.
>
> --- On Fri, 1/11/13, Rick Sparber rgsparber@...> wrote:
>
> From: Rick Sparber rgsparber@...>
> Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, January 11, 2013, 3:48 PM
>
> Does sound rather messy but maybe fast. I know you can get a fine mix of
>
> flux and solder that is used for surface mount. I wonder if you could
> spread
>
> some of this paste on the board and then cooked it in the pan. Is there an
>
> easy way to form tiny particles of solder? I know the first lead shot was
>
> formed by pouring it from a great height and letting it land in a big pail
>
> of water.
>
> Rick
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
>
> On Behalf Of KeepIt SimpleStupid
>
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:40 PM
>
> To: homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com
>
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL
>
> I did it this way: I used a frying pan, peanut oil and something to keep
>
> the board off the bottom of the pan.
>
> Solder dip and wet rag.
>
> The oil residue was tough to remove. I would not use this method on
>
> critical circuits though.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 1:34 PM EST Rick Sparber wrote:
>
> >I was playing around with some scrap pieces of circuit board I etched
>
> >and drilled in order to find a way to simulate the HASL (Hot Air Solder
>
> >Leveling) process. This process puts down a very thin coat of solder
>
> >over the copper. The solder protects the copper plus makes soldering in
>
> >components easier.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >I found that I could brush the board with flux. Then I built up a small
>
> >bump of solder on the ground plane. Using my soldering iron as a paint
>
> >brush, I dipped into the bump and then painted the copper. When done, I
>
> >scrubbed the board with alcohol. Worked great. I had no shorted paths.
>
> >
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: No HASL

2013-01-12 by tda7000

Will have to try that idea with the Scotch Brite, my last boards I hand-tinned were annoyingly shiny!

I used just the largest chisel tip I had and it worked pretty well but it was slow going.

I thought about making a roller tinning machine but it would be expensive.

But while Googling about roller tinning machines I found this: (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=25097.0;wap2)


"A lot of commercial single sided stuff is roller tinned. That is, a metal roller spins in a pool of molten solder and the PCB is passed over the roller, copper side down after an application of liquid flux.

That's a little complicated for home use, but I came up with a similar method. I got a 1" brass pipe 6" long at the hardware store. I drilled a hole into it in the center, and threaded the hole for 1/4"-20. I threaded a 1/4"-20 threaded rod into the hole and jammed it in place with a nut. Then I added an insulating handle to the 1/4"-20 threaded rod.

I sanded the opposide side of the brass pipe smooth, coated it with flux, then heated it with a propane torch flame inside the pipe until the pipe could be tinned with solder.

To tin a board, you affix the board to a heatproof surface, brush on liquid flux, then heat the brass pipe with a propane torch until you can load the tinned side up with solder. Once the solder flows, swipe the solder-ey side across the fluxxed copper - bango, swipe-tinned board. "


Anyone else tried something like this?


Show quoted textHide quoted text
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Eldon Brown wrote:
>
> On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 8:03 PM, KeepIt SimpleStupid <
> keepitsimplestupid@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > >I found that I could brush the board with flux. Then I built up a small
> >
> > >bump of solder on the ground plane. Using my soldering iron as a paint
> >
> > >brush, I dipped into the bump and then painted the copper. When done, I
> >
> > >scrubbed the board with alcohol. Worked great. I had no shorted paths.
> >
> > >
>
>
> I do the same, but I include a short section of Solder Wick under the tip
> of the iron, it acts like a brush, it tins and wicks at the same time.
> After clean-up I use Scotch Bright to remove the shine, because the
> un-buffed surface is very bright and distracting while mounting parts.
>
> Regards,
> Eldon Brown
>
> 73 - Eldon - WA0UWH - CN88xc - http://WA0UWH.blogspot.com/
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

2013-01-12 by Donald H Locker

C-flux is an acid based product, so clean thoroughly. From the MSDS:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
INGREDIENT: Zinc Chloride
PERCENTAGE BY WEIGHT: <20
CAS#: 7646-85-7
EC#: 231-592-0
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
INGREDIENT: Ammonium Chloride
PERCENTAGE BY WEIGHT: <1
CAS#: 12125-02-9
EC#: 235-186-4

And other, including tin and antimony.

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() no proprietary attachments; no html mail
/\ ascii ribbon campaign - <www.asciiribbon.org>

Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
> From: "Missouri Guy" <n0tt1@...>
> To: "Homebrew PCBs" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 11:57:25 AM
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL
> FYI...there is some flux that already has solder particles
> in it. The brand I have in my plumbing supplies is called
> "C-Flux", made in the USA by "Rectorseal" of Houston, TX.
> http://www.rectorseal.com/C-Flux.php Note that there
> are links to the datasheet.
>
> I purchased a 3-oz jar at a surplus store for 59-cents. Amazon
> has it for over $5!!
>
> The product "cleans and tins" in one operation and is lead-free.
> I'm pretty sure there are other brands out there that are
> virutally the same thing. One nice thing about this product
> is that it seems to keep "forever". Just add a little water
> and mix if it starts to dry out.
>
> BTW, the flux in a lot of plumbing products contains forms
> of Chloride, an acid. Be sure to clean ALL of that off the board
> to avoid corrosion problems later on. It is water soluble.
>
> Having said that, I just wonder if this C-Flux stuff could be used
> for SMDs? I.E., in place of the expensive paste that has a shelf
> life. Has anyone ever tried it?
>
> Per the datasheet, avoid breathing in any of the fumes.
>
> Charlie
>
> On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 07:25:51 -0700 "Rick Sparber" <rgsparber@...>
> writes:
>
> ST,
>
> I failed to mention that I am using plumber's solder paste and paint
> the
> board using an old tooth brush. I tried reflowing the paste with my
> hot
> air
> gun but it didn't seem to matter. The brush put it on thin enough.
>
> The SMD paste contains tiny specs of solder so it is not the same as
> plumber's paste. It would be cool if there was a way to take 1/8"
> diameter
> solder and grind it up into tiny particles. Then it could be mixed
> with
> plumber's paste and used to coat the board. Heat the board in a
> toaster
> oven
> and it would be coated. Then wash to remove excess flux.
>
> Rick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Stefan Trethan
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 7:01 AM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL
>
> You can use plumbing solder paste (with flux) and paint the board with
> it.,
> then you heat the board with hot air or a hotplate..
> The paste can be thinned with water to make it easier to apply, and it
> is
> much cheaper than SMD paste.
> Excess paste in bare areas and flux just washes off with hot water.
>
> There will be lumps if you apply too much or unevenly, in that case
> carefully wipe it off with a paper towel wad while molten.
>
> ST
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

2013-01-12 by Missouri Guy

Heh...heh....that would be quite a sight with the SMDs
popping off!

Charlie

On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 18:59:31 +0100 Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...>
writes:

I doubt you would be able to clean the flux well enough from under the
parts.
Also there may be some problems with parts flipping off the board like
popcorn, that happens if you try to thin old SMD paste.

Dealextreme has some cheap SMD paste, but it goes bad fairly quickly.
Keep refrigerated for longer shelf life.

ST

Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Missouri Guy n0tt1@...> wrote:

> Having said that, I just wonder if this C-Flux stuff could be used
> for SMDs? I.E., in place of the expensive paste that has a shelf
> life. Has anyone ever tried it?



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

2013-01-13 by Rick Sparber

ST,

I like the idea of a solder paintbrush since it uses materials I have on
hand.

Thanks,

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Stefan Trethan
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:23 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

Have you tried solder bearing plumbing paste? They make a paste that
contains small particles of solder similar to SMD paste, not just flux.
<http://www.hausundwerkstatt24.de/bilder/produkte/gross/8015.png>
I used that and it worked just fine, melting it with a hot air gun.

Regarding the hotplate, it does work to heat through the board from the
bottom. I often reflow SMD solder with that method, and there are industrial
hot plate ovens just like it for single sided boards. I use 240°C for leaded
solder. Not sure how much of a disadvantage the
(leadfree) plumbing paste may be with a hotplate.

I believe roller tinning (using a solder bath and transfer roller just like
a printing press) is superior. It would also not be hard to make a tinning
"iron" which holds a bunch of wadded up copper or brass strands as a
paintbrush.

ST





On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 3:25 PM, Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...> wrote:
> ST,
>
> I failed to mention that I am using plumber's solder paste and paint
> the board using an old tooth brush. I tried reflowing the paste with
> my hot air gun but it didn't seem to matter. The brush put it on thin
enough.
>
> The SMD paste contains tiny specs of solder so it is not the same as
> plumber's paste. It would be cool if there was a way to take 1/8"
> diameter solder and grind it up into tiny particles. Then it could be
> mixed with plumber's paste and used to coat the board. Heat the board
> in a toaster oven and it would be coated. Then wash to remove excess flux.
>
> Rick
>


------------------------------------

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

2013-01-13 by Rick Sparber

But how do I take the solder I have on hand and grind it up to make this
kind of flux+solder paste?

Rick

-----Original Message-----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Missouri Guy
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:57 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

FYI...there is some flux that already has solder particles in it. The brand
I have in my plumbing supplies is called "C-Flux", made in the USA by
"Rectorseal" of Houston, TX.
http://www.rectorseal.com/C-Flux.php Note that there
are links to the datasheet.

I purchased a 3-oz jar at a surplus store for 59-cents. Amazon has it for
over $5!!

The product "cleans and tins" in one operation and is lead-free.
I'm pretty sure there are other brands out there that are virutally the same
thing. One nice thing about this product is that it seems to keep
"forever". Just add a little water and mix if it starts to dry out.

BTW, the flux in a lot of plumbing products contains forms of Chloride, an
acid. Be sure to clean ALL of that off the board to avoid corrosion
problems later on. It is water soluble.

Having said that, I just wonder if this C-Flux stuff could be used for SMDs?
I.E., in place of the expensive paste that has a shelf life. Has anyone
ever tried it?

Per the datasheet, avoid breathing in any of the fumes.

Charlie

On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 07:25:51 -0700 "Rick Sparber" <rgsparber@...>
writes:

ST,

I failed to mention that I am using plumber's solder paste and paint the
board using an old tooth brush. I tried reflowing the paste with my hot air
gun but it didn't seem to matter. The brush put it on thin enough.

The SMD paste contains tiny specs of solder so it is not the same as
plumber's paste. It would be cool if there was a way to take 1/8"
diameter
solder and grind it up into tiny particles. Then it could be mixed with
plumber's paste and used to coat the board. Heat the board in a toaster oven
and it would be coated. Then wash to remove excess flux.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Stefan Trethan
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 7:01 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

You can use plumbing solder paste (with flux) and paint the board with it.,
then you heat the board with hot air or a hotplate..
The paste can be thinned with water to make it easier to apply, and it is
much cheaper than SMD paste.
Excess paste in bare areas and flux just washes off with hot water.

There will be lumps if you apply too much or unevenly, in that case
carefully wipe it off with a paper towel wad while molten.

ST

------------------------------------

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

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Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

2013-01-13 by Stefan Trethan

Come on now Rick, you can't possibly be this cheap?
Do you really want to have lead dust everywhere?

I suppose a ball mill might do the job.

ST

Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...> wrote:
> But how do I take the solder I have on hand and grind it up to make this
> kind of flux+solder paste?
>
> Rick
>

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: No HASL

2013-01-13 by Rick Sparber

I'm sure this would work. My goal is to be able to coat a board using
minimal equipment. I have flux in a can and a big roll of 1/8" diameter
solder. I want a board coated with the solder.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of psykhon@...
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 11:07 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: No HASL

Thinking "inside the box" what would requiere to build a small and simple
HASL machine?

-A small tank of stainless steel, one from a kitchen supply store will do

-Heating element, the easiest part, a spare part for a electric grill or
similar

-Thermostat and PT100, this should cost less than $100

-Air knife, may be built from an electric blower and some tubing

-The insertion mechanism is something i didnt figure it out yet, but a rod
with an alligator clamp should work

-Some solder bars

Am I missing something?
Did anybody work with a profesional machine and can throw some ligth?



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Sparber" wrote:
>
> ST,
>
> I failed to mention that I am using plumber's solder paste and paint
> the board using an old tooth brush. I tried reflowing the paste with
> my hot air gun but it didn't seem to matter. The brush put it on thin
enough.
>
> The SMD paste contains tiny specs of solder so it is not the same as
> plumber's paste. It would be cool if there was a way to take 1/8"
> diameter solder and grind it up into tiny particles. Then it could be
> mixed with plumber's paste and used to coat the board. Heat the board
> in a toaster oven and it would be coated. Then wash to remove excess flux.
>
> Rick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Stefan Trethan
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 7:01 AM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL
>
> You can use plumbing solder paste (with flux) and paint the board with
> it., then you heat the board with hot air or a hotplate..
> The paste can be thinned with water to make it easier to apply, and it
> is much cheaper than SMD paste.
> Excess paste in bare areas and flux just washes off with hot water.
>
> There will be lumps if you apply too much or unevenly, in that case
> carefully wipe it off with a paper towel wad while molten.
>
> ST
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>




------------------------------------

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

2013-01-13 by Donald H Locker

I suspect solder is too malleable for a ball mill to crumble. Hot inert-gas spray? I'd probably start with carbide paper/Wet-orDry abrasive sheets. Maybe just knife-scraping the surface with uneven pressure could make small enough particles.

Donald.
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Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stefan Trethan" <stefan_trethan@...>
> To: "Homebrew PCBs" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:47:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL
> Come on now Rick, you can't possibly be this cheap?
> Do you really want to have lead dust everywhere?
>
> I suppose a ball mill might do the job.
>
> ST
>
> On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...>
> wrote:
> > But how do I take the solder I have on hand and grind it up to make
> > this
> > kind of flux+solder paste?
> >
> > Rick
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

2013-01-13 by lists

In article <000701cdf18b$dd723510$98569f30$@com>,
Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...> wrote:
> But how do I take the solder I have on hand and grind it up to make this
> kind of flux+solder paste?

Well it seems to me that solder would be far too soft and malleable to
grind it, though you could probably beat into a thin sheet - think gold
leaf.

You could try filing it but I suspect it would quickly clog your file.

You could devise an arrangement where you melt it and force it through a
fine spray nozzle, spraying onto a water bath but quite frankly I would
prefer to remain a long way away from anywhere such operations were taking
place.

Stick to dragging the solder across the tracks with your soldering iron,
it's what I've been doing for years. It may not be perfect but it works.

--
Stuart Winsor

Only plain text for emails
http://www.asciiribbon.org

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

2013-01-13 by Rick Sparber

ST,

It is not about me being cheap, it is about helping my readers get things
done without constantly running off to the store. Who would read an article
that said something like "to make a circuit board, buy it at the store"? I
certainly do not want lead dust around but don't see that as an unavoidable
side effect. I do plan to try out the solder paint brush idea today using
Solder Wick. No dust with that approach.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Stefan Trethan
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 5:47 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

Come on now Rick, you can't possibly be this cheap?
Do you really want to have lead dust everywhere?

I suppose a ball mill might do the job.

ST

On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...> wrote:
> But how do I take the solder I have on hand and grind it up to make
> this kind of flux+solder paste?
>
> Rick
>


------------------------------------

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

2013-01-13 by Rick Sparber

Stuart,

Almost agreed. But it is good to take a tour of other options before
settling on one. Dragging a molten solder saturated piece of copper braid
across the tracks sounds best to me right now. Fast and relatively safe.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of lists
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 6:15 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

In article <000701cdf18b$dd723510$98569f30$@com>,
Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...> wrote:
> But how do I take the solder I have on hand and grind it up to make
> this kind of flux+solder paste?

Well it seems to me that solder would be far too soft and malleable to grind
it, though you could probably beat into a thin sheet - think gold leaf.

You could try filing it but I suspect it would quickly clog your file.

You could devise an arrangement where you melt it and force it through a
fine spray nozzle, spraying onto a water bath but quite frankly I would
prefer to remain a long way away from anywhere such operations were taking
place.

Stick to dragging the solder across the tracks with your soldering iron,
it's what I've been doing for years. It may not be perfect but it works.

--
Stuart Winsor

Only plain text for emails
http://www.asciiribbon.org





------------------------------------

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Re: No HASL

2013-01-13 by chris

Rick,

FWIW I gave up tinning the boards after I started using this

http://www.rapidonline.com/Tools-Equipment/PCB-flux-spray-30093

so my process is now

print toner transfer on laser printer
use laminator to fix toner to board
chill in water
remove carrier paper
etch
(The boards can be stored indefinitely at this point)
drill (easier to see the holes when the toner is still on the board)
clean off toner with stainless wire wool or 260 wet and dry
rinse and dry with paper towels
spray on flux as above
(the boards can be stored indefinitely at this point

assembly

spray boards with acrylic sealant



I did some tests and although it is recomended to wash off the flux before coating with conformal coating, I didn't find it made much difference to longevity of the boards in automotive environment.

Chris



Show quoted textHide quoted text
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Sparber" wrote:
>
> I was playing around with some scrap pieces of circuit board I etched and
> drilled in order to find a way to simulate the HASL (Hot Air Solder
> Leveling) process. This process puts down a very thin coat of solder over
> the copper. The solder protects the copper plus makes soldering in
> components easier.
>
>
>
> I found that I could brush the board with flux. Then I built up a small bump
> of solder on the ground plane. Using my soldering iron as a paint brush, I
> dipped into the bump and then painted the copper. When done, I scrubbed the
> board with alcohol. Worked great. I had no shorted paths.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

2013-01-13 by Stefan Trethan

I think anything will eventually crumble in a ball mill. The people
who use lead balls complain about media contamination and wearing of
the lead balls, so it does happen. I guess you could speed things
along by using steel balls to crush the lead.

SMD paste contains spherical balls of a specified maximum diameter. I
would not be surprised if the way to manufacture them was some tuned
up downsized shot tower process similar to what you propose.





Anyway, given the requirement to use things on hand, I think the
"heated metal paintbrush" idea would be most efficient. It's just a
matter of squeezing some brass or copper wool/strands in the end of a
metal tube and saturating the thing with solder. If the goal is just
to get the board tinned making solder powder is not really necessary.


ST



Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 2:15 PM, Donald H Locker <dhlocker@...> wrote:
> I suspect solder is too malleable for a ball mill to crumble. Hot inert-gas spray? I'd probably start with carbide paper/Wet-orDry abrasive sheets. Maybe just knife-scraping the surface with uneven pressure could make small enough particles.
>
> Donald.
> --

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

2013-01-13 by Rick Sparber

I took a video of painting the board and will have it on YouTube soon.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Stefan Trethan
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:44 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

I think anything will eventually crumble in a ball mill. The people who use
lead balls complain about media contamination and wearing of the lead balls,
so it does happen. I guess you could speed things along by using steel balls
to crush the lead.

SMD paste contains spherical balls of a specified maximum diameter. I would
not be surprised if the way to manufacture them was some tuned up downsized
shot tower process similar to what you propose.





Anyway, given the requirement to use things on hand, I think the "heated
metal paintbrush" idea would be most efficient. It's just a matter of
squeezing some brass or copper wool/strands in the end of a metal tube and
saturating the thing with solder. If the goal is just to get the board
tinned making solder powder is not really necessary.


ST



On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 2:15 PM, Donald H Locker <dhlocker@...>
wrote:
> I suspect solder is too malleable for a ball mill to crumble. Hot
inert-gas spray? I'd probably start with carbide paper/Wet-orDry abrasive
sheets. Maybe just knife-scraping the surface with uneven pressure could
make small enough particles.
>
> Donald.
> --


------------------------------------

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Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: No HASL

2013-01-13 by Donald H Locker

Flux pen (e.g. <http://www.techni-tool.com/Search?search=kester+flux&gclid=CJD_ksLH5bQCFcU-MgodPF8Axw>) or just paint some on from one of the gallons should provide similar protection. Some day I'll get back to doing circuit boards.

Donald.
--
*Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue
() no proprietary attachments; no html mail
/\ ascii ribbon campaign - <www.asciiribbon.org>

Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
> From: "chris" <chris@...>
> To: "Homebrew PCBs" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 9:15:07 AM
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: No HASL
> Rick,
>
> FWIW I gave up tinning the boards after I started using this
>
> http://www.rapidonline.com/Tools-Equipment/PCB-flux-spray-30093
>
> so my process is now
>
> print toner transfer on laser printer
> use laminator to fix toner to board
> chill in water
> remove carrier paper
> etch
> (The boards can be stored indefinitely at this point)
> drill (easier to see the holes when the toner is still on the board)
> clean off toner with stainless wire wool or 260 wet and dry
> rinse and dry with paper towels
> spray on flux as above
> (the boards can be stored indefinitely at this point
>
> assembly
>
> spray boards with acrylic sealant
>
>
>
> I did some tests and although it is recomended to wash off the flux
> before coating with conformal coating, I didn't find it made much
> difference to longevity of the boards in automotive environment.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Sparber" wrote:
> >
> > I was playing around with some scrap pieces of circuit board I
> > etched and
> > drilled in order to find a way to simulate the HASL (Hot Air Solder
> > Leveling) process. This process puts down a very thin coat of solder
> > over
> > the copper. The solder protects the copper plus makes soldering in
> > components easier.
> >
> >
> >
> > I found that I could brush the board with flux. Then I built up a
> > small bump
> > of solder on the ground plane. Using my soldering iron as a paint
> > brush, I
> > dipped into the bump and then painted the copper. When done, I
> > scrubbed the
> > board with alcohol. Worked great. I had no shorted paths.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

2013-01-13 by Rick Sparber

I just put up a YouTube video of what you guys have taught me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS62rik7eWA&feature=youtu.be

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Stefan Trethan
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:44 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

I think anything will eventually crumble in a ball mill. The people who use
lead balls complain about media contamination and wearing of the lead balls,
so it does happen. I guess you could speed things along by using steel balls
to crush the lead.

SMD paste contains spherical balls of a specified maximum diameter. I would
not be surprised if the way to manufacture them was some tuned up downsized
shot tower process similar to what you propose.





Anyway, given the requirement to use things on hand, I think the "heated
metal paintbrush" idea would be most efficient. It's just a matter of
squeezing some brass or copper wool/strands in the end of a metal tube and
saturating the thing with solder. If the goal is just to get the board
tinned making solder powder is not really necessary.


ST



On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 2:15 PM, Donald H Locker <dhlocker@...>
wrote:
> I suspect solder is too malleable for a ball mill to crumble. Hot
inert-gas spray? I'd probably start with carbide paper/Wet-orDry abrasive
sheets. Maybe just knife-scraping the surface with uneven pressure could
make small enough particles.
>
> Donald.
> --


------------------------------------

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

2013-01-13 by Stefan Trethan

I'm looking for a drill vice like that which can be used on it's side!
All the ones here seem to have ears with slots to clamp them.

You could put down "lumps" of solder on the board in strategic places
to saturate your braid without stopping.
Of course the "brush" could also be sized up if you make many boards.
Anyway seems to do the job just fine. I believe the solder paste
painting was more work than that.

ST

Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 6:54 PM, Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...> wrote:
> I just put up a YouTube video of what you guys have taught me.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS62rik7eWA&feature=youtu.be
>
> Rick

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

2013-01-13 by Eldon Brown

This what I posted to my blog in 2009, and have been using ever since.

http://wa0uwh.blogspot.com/2009/11/tin-plating-with-solder.html

Regards,
Eldon Brown

73 - Eldon - WA0UWH - CN88xc - http://WA0UWH.blogspot.com/




Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 5:26 AM, Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Stuart,
>
> Almost agreed. But it is good to take a tour of other options before
> settling on one. Dragging a molten solder saturated piece of copper braid
> across the tracks sounds best to me right now. Fast and relatively safe.
>
>
> Rick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of lists
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 6:15 AM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL
>
> In article <000701cdf18b$dd723510$98569f30$@com>,
> Rick Sparber rgsparber@...> wrote:
> > But how do I take the solder I have on hand and grind it up to make
> > this kind of flux+solder paste?
>
> Well it seems to me that solder would be far too soft and malleable to
> grind
> it, though you could probably beat into a thin sheet - think gold leaf.
>
> You could try filing it but I suspect it would quickly clog your file.
>
> You could devise an arrangement where you melt it and force it through a
> fine spray nozzle, spraying onto a water bath but quite frankly I would
> prefer to remain a long way away from anywhere such operations were taking
> place.
>
> Stick to dragging the solder across the tracks with your soldering iron,
> it's what I've been doing for years. It may not be perfect but it works.
>
> --
> Stuart Winsor
>
> Only plain text for emails
> http://www.asciiribbon.org
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

2013-01-13 by Andrew Leech

I used to make a lot of pcb's in-house at my last work, and for tinning
them I had a frypan and one of the little portable gas stoves that works
on disposable gas canisters. I bought a heap of sticks of plumbers
solder and chucked them into the pan and made the whole thing into a big
solder pot.
I used crystals of citric (ascorbic) acid from the baking section of my
local supermarket dissolved in water in a reusable spray bottle for
flux, spray the board then float the whole thing on the pool of solder.
Then pick it up with pliers and use a car window squeegy to wipe off the
excess solder while still molton. The rubber never seemed to burn if you
do it relatively quick.

The whole process was very quick and reliable and gave a great flat
surface. Just make sure to do it outside or very well ventilated area to
avoid any lead fumes.

I've also used Cool Amp silver plating powder, it's a just add water and
rub. Works really well but if you don't use the board relatively quickly
it tarnishes and becomes a pain to solder.

Andrew

Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 12/01/13 5:34 AM, Rick Sparber wrote:
>
> I was playing around with some scrap pieces of circuit board I etched and
> drilled in order to find a way to simulate the HASL (Hot Air Solder
> Leveling) process. This process puts down a very thin coat of solder over
> the copper. The solder protects the copper plus makes soldering in
> components easier.
>
> I found that I could brush the board with flux. Then I built up a
> small bump
> of solder on the ground plane. Using my soldering iron as a paint brush, I
> dipped into the bump and then painted the copper. When done, I
> scrubbed the
> board with alcohol. Worked great. I had no shorted paths.
>
>
>
>
> Rick
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

2013-01-13 by Rick Sparber

Eldon,

Very good write up.

Thanks,

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Eldon Brown
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 12:45 PM
To: Homebrew PCBs
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

This what I posted to my blog in 2009, and have been using ever since.

http://wa0uwh.blogspot.com/2009/11/tin-plating-with-solder.html

Regards,
Eldon Brown

73 - Eldon - WA0UWH - CN88xc - http://WA0UWH.blogspot.com/




On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 5:26 AM, Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Stuart,
>
> Almost agreed. But it is good to take a tour of other options before
> settling on one. Dragging a molten solder saturated piece of copper
> braid across the tracks sounds best to me right now. Fast and relatively
safe.
>
>
> Rick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of lists
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 6:15 AM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL
>
> In article <000701cdf18b$dd723510$98569f30$@com>,
> Rick Sparber rgsparber@...> wrote:
> > But how do I take the solder I have on hand and grind it up to make
> > this kind of flux+solder paste?
>
> Well it seems to me that solder would be far too soft and malleable to
> grind it, though you could probably beat into a thin sheet - think
> gold leaf.
>
> You could try filing it but I suspect it would quickly clog your file.
>
> You could devise an arrangement where you melt it and force it through
> a fine spray nozzle, spraying onto a water bath but quite frankly I
> would prefer to remain a long way away from anywhere such operations
> were taking place.
>
> Stick to dragging the solder across the tracks with your soldering
> iron, it's what I've been doing for years. It may not be perfect but it
works.
>
> --
> Stuart Winsor
>
> Only plain text for emails
> http://www.asciiribbon.org
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

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RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

2013-01-13 by Rick Sparber

ST,

Do you mean like these?

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=491&PARTPG=INLMK3&PMITEM=428-9020

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Stefan Trethan
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 12:43 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

I'm looking for a drill vice like that which can be used on it's side!
All the ones here seem to have ears with slots to clamp them.

You could put down "lumps" of solder on the board in strategic places to
saturate your braid without stopping.
Of course the "brush" could also be sized up if you make many boards.
Anyway seems to do the job just fine. I believe the solder paste painting
was more work than that.

ST

On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 6:54 PM, Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...> wrote:
> I just put up a YouTube video of what you guys have taught me.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS62rik7eWA&feature=youtu.be
>
> Rick


------------------------------------

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RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

2013-01-13 by Rick Sparber

Todd,

I really like mopping the bare board with Solder Wick and my soldering gun.
Goes fast and seems to work well.

Of course, now that I have perfected my ability to etch, drill, and tin
circuit boards, I expect to receive my first commercially made boards
tomorrow. So I'll have to wait before I can try out all of these neat tricks
and new tools.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Todd F. Carney
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:05 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL

Rick,

There are a number of excellent video tutorials and demos of various
homebrew methods to reflow solder. In them you will find many examples of
using either a hot plate, an electric frying pan (without oil), an electric
griddle, or a toaster oven. In each demo I've seen, the narrator suggested
using dedicated pans or ovens and not the ones you prepare food in. They may
seem to defy logic ("Given a single sided board, I don't see how a hot plate
could work. By the time the traces were hot enough to melt solder, wouldn't
the opposite side be black?"), but they very clearly work.

YouTube is your friend.

73,

Todd
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
K7TFC / Medford, Oregon, USA / CN82ni / UTC-8
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
QRP (CW & SSB) / EmComm / SOTA / Homebrew / Design


On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 6:06 AM, Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> KISS,
>
> The idea of soaking my board in cooking oil does not thrill me. But I
> can see how it would do a great job of conducting the heat. I am
> surprised it doesn't contaminate the surface to the point where solder
> does not bond to the copper.
>
> Given a single sided board, I don't see how a hot plate could work. By
> the time the traces were hot enough to melt solder, wouldn't the
> opposite side be black? Now, a toaster oven might work but how do you
> get in there to distribute the solder? Or are you assuming that solder
> paste has been put down first. I looked up the cost of this mix of
> flux and particles of solder - $$$.
>
> As for speed, I only tried it on a 1" x 1" piece of scrap so didn't
> think about speed. On a large board, I can see that getting rather old.
>
> I'm not ready to abandon the basic idea of "painting" the board with
> solder from a hot brush. My soldering tip gives me a brush about 1/16"
> wide. But if the brush was 1/2" or even 1" wide, this could go very fast.
>
> Rick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of KeepIt SimpleStupid
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 9:04 PM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL
>
> It definitely was pretty quick. I basically used the same sort of
> technique for tinning copper pipe except for the heating method. With
> pipe, you clean, flux, add solder and wipe with a wet rag. If it
> doesn't take, you sand and do it again.
>
> I havn't tried the SMT assembly technique that basically uses a flat
> block of say aluminum in a pan. I would imagine that that would work
> too especially if you used a decent thermometer.
>
> I was also using a gas stove as well.
>
> It's entirely possible that a toaster oven and an aluminum plate would
> work too.
>
> The soldering iron apply technique is too slow.
>
> --- On Fri, 1/11/13, Rick Sparber rgsparber@...> wrote:
>
> From: Rick Sparber rgsparber@...>
> Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, January 11, 2013, 3:48 PM
>
> Does sound rather messy but maybe fast. I know you can get a fine mix
> of
>
> flux and solder that is used for surface mount. I wonder if you could
> spread
>
> some of this paste on the board and then cooked it in the pan. Is
> there an
>
> easy way to form tiny particles of solder? I know the first lead shot
> was
>
> formed by pouring it from a great height and letting it land in a big
> pail
>
> of water.
>
> Rick
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
>
> On Behalf Of KeepIt SimpleStupid
>
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:40 PM
>
> To: homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com
>
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] No HASL
>
> I did it this way: I used a frying pan, peanut oil and something to
> keep
>
> the board off the bottom of the pan.
>
> Solder dip and wet rag.
>
> The oil residue was tough to remove. I would not use this method on
>
> critical circuits though.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 1:34 PM EST Rick Sparber wrote:
>
> >I was playing around with some scrap pieces of circuit board I etched
>
> >and drilled in order to find a way to simulate the HASL (Hot Air
> >Solder
>
> >Leveling) process. This process puts down a very thin coat of solder
>
> >over the copper. The solder protects the copper plus makes soldering
> >in
>
> >components easier.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >I found that I could brush the board with flux. Then I built up a
> >small
>
> >bump of solder on the ground plane. Using my soldering iron as a
> >paint
>
> >brush, I dipped into the bump and then painted the copper. When done,
> >I
>
> >scrubbed the board with alcohol. Worked great. I had no shorted paths.
>
> >
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
Photos:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

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Re: No HASL

2013-01-14 by wanliker@...

I have been reading comments abut plating circuit boards and types of
fluxes used. I have always been told, and firmly believe that the only flux to
ever be used on a PC board is Rosin, and I have seen the corroded results
of plumbers solder. But remember I started before the Lead free solders,
so I don't have anything to say about those materials.

It has been years since I made PC boards, but for 55 years, I repaired
them.
The only solder I will use on any PC board, is about an .030 solder with a
rosin core. the small diameter is easy to handle, and control the amount of
solder being deposited. I will admit all of the solder I still use, and
still have is a LEAD based solder. I absolutely hated the non lead solder.
When I tinned the traces, I was usually repairing a broken or burned trace,
and would deposit a nice thick film of solder for the extra current
carrying ability.
At times I would drag a piece of Solder wick with my iron on the top and it
would leave a nice clean trace, as the wick filled up I would feed in more
wicking under the iron, at times I would have 1-2 inch piece of wick
saturated with solder.
If you want to use just plain copper braiding, flatten it, then drag the
braid across a piece of rosin, and it will absorb solder much better.
I would use a wedge shaped iron, and the results would be a nicely tinned
trace that was shiny, which is an good indication that it is clean.

Just a bit of thought from a 77 year old man. To show my age, I taught
all of the Fire control systems on the F-100, later I held a 2 nd Class FCC
license when it meant something, and passing that test was an indication of
your technical knowledge.
I had been working for years before CB's came out. It was an exciting
time, with Heathkit, Allied Radio, Lafayette, and many others all offering
kits. I have a Lafayette KT 320 4 band radio I built in Nov 1963 from a kit.
I was doing an alignment on it, when the first station came in with the
announcement of Kennedy's Assassination. What a shock, no more alignment that
day, stayed glued to that one station. PS, it still works.
Enough rambling,
oldman

But that was Then, and we are here Now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: No HASL

2013-01-15 by Rick Sparber

Wanliker,

I'm trying to understand where the flux ends up after soldering. I scrub the
bare copper with a 3M pad to remove oxides, brush it with plumber's flux,
and then coat the board with solder. I would think that there is no flux
between the copper and the solder. So if I then scrub the coated board with
alcohol to remove the flux, wouldn't that be the end of it?

Do understand that I am not using plumber's solder, just the flux. Maybe you
are talking about acid core solder which IS nasty stuff.

I agree about the lead free solder. I stick with 60/40.

I remember and built Heathkit, Allied Radio, Lafayette, and Etco. Wonderful
education and great products. But then, I'm just a kid at 62...

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of wanliker@...
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 10:40 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: No HASL

I have been reading comments abut plating circuit boards and types of fluxes
used. I have always been told, and firmly believe that the only flux to
ever be used on a PC board is Rosin, and I have seen the corroded results
of plumbers solder. But remember I started before the Lead free solders,
so I don't have anything to say about those materials.

It has been years since I made PC boards, but for 55 years, I repaired them.

The only solder I will use on any PC board, is about an .030 solder with a
rosin core. the small diameter is easy to handle, and control the amount of
solder being deposited. I will admit all of the solder I still use, and
still have is a LEAD based solder. I absolutely hated the non lead solder.
When I tinned the traces, I was usually repairing a broken or burned trace,
and would deposit a nice thick film of solder for the extra current carrying
ability.
At times I would drag a piece of Solder wick with my iron on the top and it
would leave a nice clean trace, as the wick filled up I would feed in more
wicking under the iron, at times I would have 1-2 inch piece of wick
saturated with solder.
If you want to use just plain copper braiding, flatten it, then drag the
braid across a piece of rosin, and it will absorb solder much better.
I would use a wedge shaped iron, and the results would be a nicely tinned
trace that was shiny, which is an good indication that it is clean.

Just a bit of thought from a 77 year old man. To show my age, I taught all
of the Fire control systems on the F-100, later I held a 2 nd Class FCC
license when it meant something, and passing that test was an indication of
your technical knowledge.
I had been working for years before CB's came out. It was an exciting time,
with Heathkit, Allied Radio, Lafayette, and many others all offering kits.
I have a Lafayette KT 320 4 band radio I built in Nov 1963 from a kit.
I was doing an alignment on it, when the first station came in with the
announcement of Kennedy's Assassination. What a shock, no more alignment
that day, stayed glued to that one station. PS, it still works.
Enough rambling,
oldman

But that was Then, and we are here Now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

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Re: No HASL

2013-01-15 by Mars Bonfire

I believe plumber's flux is typically based on zinc chloride. I always have to laugh when I pick up my tin of it from my plumbing kit and the can is labelled "no-corrode" and the can is almost rusted out(!). I think the chloride ions are pretty aggressive and can corrode metal if they are not completely removed. The key word is "completely". It is perfectly legit to solder boards with acid based fluxes *if* the cleaning is very very controlled and rigorous. For small board runs in non-industrial settings, mildly activated rosin flux is the safe way to proceed, IMHO. As I understand it, rosin has the desirable property of being active when melted, but basically traps the flux ions so they can't flow and corrode when it is cooled and is solid. This discussion always leads to "clean the rosin off" or leave it in place debate. I was taught to leave it in place...that cleaning it could lead to freeing the additives that "mildly activate it". For very sensitive work, there is so called "water white" rosin core...but without the activation ingredient(s), it requires virtually no oxides to be effective. Bottom line: if you use a "no corrode" plumber's flux, clean, clean, clean...

Show quoted textHide quoted text
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Sparber" wrote:
>
> Wanliker,
>
> I'm trying to understand where the flux ends up after soldering. I scrub the
> bare copper with a 3M pad to remove oxides, brush it with plumber's flux,
> and then coat the board with solder. I would think that there is no flux
> between the copper and the solder. So if I then scrub the coated board with
> alcohol to remove the flux, wouldn't that be the end of it?
>
> Do understand that I am not using plumber's solder, just the flux. Maybe you
> are talking about acid core solder which IS nasty stuff.
>
> I agree about the lead free solder. I stick with 60/40.
>
> I remember and built Heathkit, Allied Radio, Lafayette, and Etco. Wonderful
> education and great products. But then, I'm just a kid at 62...
>
> Rick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of wanliker@...
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 10:40 PM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: No HASL
>
> I have been reading comments abut plating circuit boards and types of fluxes
> used. I have always been told, and firmly believe that the only flux to
> ever be used on a PC board is Rosin, and I have seen the corroded results
> of plumbers solder. But remember I started before the Lead free solders,
> so I don't have anything to say about those materials.
>
> It has been years since I made PC boards, but for 55 years, I repaired them.
>
> The only solder I will use on any PC board, is about an .030 solder with a
> rosin core. the small diameter is easy to handle, and control the amount of
> solder being deposited. I will admit all of the solder I still use, and
> still have is a LEAD based solder. I absolutely hated the non lead solder.
> When I tinned the traces, I was usually repairing a broken or burned trace,
> and would deposit a nice thick film of solder for the extra current carrying
> ability.
> At times I would drag a piece of Solder wick with my iron on the top and it
> would leave a nice clean trace, as the wick filled up I would feed in more
> wicking under the iron, at times I would have 1-2 inch piece of wick
> saturated with solder.
> If you want to use just plain copper braiding, flatten it, then drag the
> braid across a piece of rosin, and it will absorb solder much better.
> I would use a wedge shaped iron, and the results would be a nicely tinned
> trace that was shiny, which is an good indication that it is clean.
>
> Just a bit of thought from a 77 year old man. To show my age, I taught all
> of the Fire control systems on the F-100, later I held a 2 nd Class FCC
> license when it meant something, and passing that test was an indication of
> your technical knowledge.
> I had been working for years before CB's came out. It was an exciting time,
> with Heathkit, Allied Radio, Lafayette, and many others all offering kits.
> I have a Lafayette KT 320 4 band radio I built in Nov 1963 from a kit.
> I was doing an alignment on it, when the first station came in with the
> announcement of Kennedy's Assassination. What a shock, no more alignment
> that day, stayed glued to that one station. PS, it still works.
> Enough rambling,
> oldman
>
> But that was Then, and we are here Now.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: No HASL

2013-01-15 by Norm

On 1/15/2013 12:10 PM, Mars Bonfire wrote:
>
> I believe plumber's flux is typically based on zinc chloride. I always
> have to laugh when I pick up my tin of it from my plumbing kit and the
> can is labelled "no-corrode" and the can is almost rusted out(!).
> Bottom line: if you use a "no corrode" plumber's flux, clean, clean,
> clean...
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>, "Rick Sparber" wrote:
> >
> > Wanliker,
> >
> > So if I then scrub the coated board with
> > alcohol to remove the flux, wouldn't that be the end of it?
> >
> >
>
The plumber's flux is cleaned with water (and scrubbing!). I don't
think alcohol will touch it. On the other hand, alcohol is required for
rosin flux. Best and safest bet is to use ONLY rosin core for
electronics. Rosin will also work for plumbing - just not as aggressive
- but then I don't know about the rosin in contact with drinking water.
The normal water flow removes the acid flux in plumbing pipes - and any
residual chlorine should kill bad bugs in the water ;-) .

Norm
W6NIM


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]