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2012-12-29 by pauldebono@rocketmail.com
Hi, all, Wishing you all a holy, prosperous and lots of innovations for the New Year ! So far, I have seen Manhattan/Ugly style construction using a drill, Dremel cutter, superglue pads, etc. Has anyone came across some other innovative way to cutting clean islands and tracks ? Paul
2012-12-29 by Harvey White
On Sat, 29 Dec 2012 07:31:10 -0000, you wrote: >Hi, all, > >Wishing you all a holy, prosperous and lots of innovations for the New Year ! > >So far, I have seen Manhattan/Ugly style construction using a drill, Dremel cutter, superglue pads, etc. > >Has anyone came across some other innovative way to cutting clean islands and tracks ? CNC router with a rotating tool... (mechanical etching). Harvey > >Paul
2012-12-29 by r.d. terramir
isolation milling is one of my goals in the future I gotta build a little mill though for this. just finishing my second reprap, so I know how to build something like that. But this is what I'd really like to do, print circuitboards based on a piezo nozzle or activated syringe. but conductive ink is quite expensive so I was figuring a mixture of carbon copper and some kind of natural binding agent print dry instant traces, but it would need to be something that would last and well based on the mixture of carbon and copper particles you could print resistors as well :P but I'll have to do some experiments, I'd figure it would need to be something that is soluble in denatured or isopropyl alcohol which could evaporate after it's printed. But the end product would need to be solderable or be able to attach components with the same solution. Anyone here working on something like this? terramir On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 8:28 AM, Harvey White <madyn@...>wrote: > On Sat, 29 Dec 2012 07:31:10 -0000, you wrote: > > >Hi, all, > > > >Wishing you all a holy, prosperous and lots of innovations for the New > Year ! > > > >So far, I have seen Manhattan/Ugly style construction using a drill, > Dremel cutter, superglue pads, etc. > > > >Has anyone came across some other innovative way to cutting clean > islands and tracks ? > > CNC router with a rotating tool... (mechanical etching). > > Harvey > > > > >Paul > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links > > > > -- Respectfully, R. Daniel Borkan 727 S. Coronado St. 201 Los Angeles, CA 90057 H: (213) 739-1863 C: (213) 271-6721 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2012-12-30 by John
Well, it is more ugly than Ugly Sttle, but glue the components to whatever you want and wire them up with solder thru #30 wire. It works! de John W8CCW --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "pauldebono@..." <pawlud@...> wrote:
> > Hi, all, > > Wishing you all a holy, prosperous and lots of innovations for the New Year ! > > So far, I have seen Manhattan/Ugly style construction using a drill, Dremel cutter, superglue pads, etc. > > Has anyone came across some other innovative way to cutting clean islands and tracks ? > > Paul >
2012-12-30 by pauldebono@rocketmail.com
John, What I am actually looking for is a hand or power tool to scratch the surface of a copper clad board. But not a core drill, something different ! --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jferrell13@...> wrote:
> > > > Well, it is more ugly than Ugly Sttle, but glue the components to whatever you want and wire them up with solder thru #30 wire. It works! > de John W8CCW > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "pauldebono@" <pawlud@> wrote: > > > > Hi, all, > > > > Wishing you all a holy, prosperous and lots of innovations for the New Year ! > > > > So far, I have seen Manhattan/Ugly style construction using a drill, Dremel cutter, superglue pads, etc. > > > > Has anyone came across some other innovative way to cutting clean islands and tracks ? > > > > Paul > > >
2012-12-30 by Mitch Davis
On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 5:56 PM, pauldebono@... <pauldebono@...> wrote: > John, > What I am actually looking for is a hand or power tool to scratch the surface of a copper clad board. But not a core drill, something different ! Hmm, different. Let me think outside the box... Some kind of punch? Or chisel? Something that buzzes like a tattoo needle? Something that etches with an arc? Some kind of hand tool you pull towards you that ploughs a furrow? Mitch.
2012-12-30 by Rick Sparber
Have you considered wax based rub on features? Then etch with your favorite acid. Rick
-----Original Message----- From: Homebrew_PCBs@...m [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mitch Davis Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 7:04 AM To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: alternative pcb ! On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 5:56 PM, pauldebono@... <pauldebono@...> wrote: > John, > What I am actually looking for is a hand or power tool to scratch the surface of a copper clad board. But not a core drill, something different ! Hmm, different. Let me think outside the box... Some kind of punch? Or chisel? Something that buzzes like a tattoo needle? Something that etches with an arc? Some kind of hand tool you pull towards you that ploughs a furrow? Mitch. ------------------------------------ Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
2012-12-30 by AlienRelics
This all sounds more and more complex. What is wrong with toner transfer, direct inkjet resist, or scratch-and-etch? Or isolation milling in a CNC mill? Steve Greenfield AE7HD --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Sparber" <rgsparber@...> wrote:
> > Have you considered wax based rub on features? Then etch with your favorite acid. > > Rick > > -----Original Message----- > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mitch Davis > Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 7:04 AM > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: alternative pcb ! > > On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 5:56 PM, pauldebono@... <pauldebono@...> wrote: > > John, > > What I am actually looking for is a hand or power tool to scratch the surface of a copper clad board. But not a core drill, something different ! > > Hmm, different. Let me think outside the box... > > Some kind of punch? Or chisel? Something that buzzes like a tattoo needle? Something that etches with an arc? Some kind of hand tool you pull towards you that ploughs a furrow? > > Mitch. > > > ------------------------------------ > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links >
2012-12-30 by Mitch Davis
On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 2:11 AM, AlienRelics <alienrelics@...> wrote: > This all sounds more and more complex. Indeed. But some people are like that. > What is wrong with toner transfer, direct inkjet resist, or scratch-and-etch? > Or isolation milling in a CNC mill? Nothing at all (but he didn't ask about them, he asked about hand or machine tools for scratching the surface of a copper board). Paul, you'd probably get better ideas if you shared with us what you're trying to achieve :-) Mitch.
2012-12-30 by pauldebono@rocketmail.com
What I am after, is an innovative way to build a circuit, without much complications ,drilling, designing etc. Probably my best choice is a ready made copper board with small isolated anchoring islands, similar to a type of vero board, but with no holes, so they are stronger ! They are very good for RF, my main concern. I have seen them somewhere, so I will start hunting !! Paul Probably the best that suits me is a ready made copper --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mitch Davis <mjd@...> wrote:
> > On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 2:11 AM, AlienRelics <alienrelics@...> wrote: > > This all sounds more and more complex. > > Indeed. But some people are like that. > > > What is wrong with toner transfer, direct inkjet resist, or scratch-and-etch? > > Or isolation milling in a CNC mill? > > Nothing at all (but he didn't ask about them, he asked about hand or > machine tools for scratching the surface of a copper board). > > Paul, you'd probably get better ideas if you shared with us what > you're trying to achieve :-) > > Mitch. >
2012-12-30 by kc8pcj
I have used a dremel tool with a round headed bit. Not the greatest but it did work.
From: pauldebono@... Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 4:56 AM To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: alternative pcb ! John, What I am actually looking for is a hand or power tool to scratch the surface of a copper clad board. But not a core drill, something different ! --- In mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com, "John" <jferrell13@...> wrote: > > > > Well, it is more ugly than Ugly Sttle, but glue the components to whatever you want and wire them up with solder thru #30 wire. It works! > de John W8CCW > > --- In mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com, "pauldebono@" <pawlud@> wrote: > > > > Hi, all, > > > > Wishing you all a holy, prosperous and lots of innovations for the New Year ! > > > > So far, I have seen Manhattan/Ugly style construction using a drill, Dremel cutter, superglue pads, etc. > > > > Has anyone came across some other innovative way to cutting clean islands and tracks ? > > > > Paul > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2012-12-30 by Harvey White
On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:16:03 -0000, you wrote: > >What I am after, is an innovative way to build a circuit, without much complications ,drilling, designing etc. > >Probably my best choice is a ready made copper board with small isolated anchoring islands, similar to a type of vero board, but with no holes, so they are stronger ! They are very good for RF, my main concern. I have seen them somewhere, so I will start hunting !! There used to be a small tool that was used to create an island around a drill hole. it was effectively a micro sized hole saw. The technique was to drill holes in copper clad where you wanted them, isolate this hole with the tool (as needed) and then bridge from island to island with the parts. You've probably seen that one and decided it's not what you want. A similar approach would be to use a dremel as a router, make a small template that is large enough to manage, and has various patterns in it, then use the dremel as a router to remove the copper around that island. Never seen anyone do this, but it would have an advantage that you could make templates of your favorite circuits with a sheet of scrap aluminum, isolate as needed, (no through holes required) and have essentially the same layout each time. you'd have to be somewhat careful with the depth setting, but a small fixture could be made to allow you fast setup. Harvey
> >Paul > > >Probably the best that suits me is a ready made copper >--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mitch Davis <mjd@...> wrote: >> >> On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 2:11 AM, AlienRelics <alienrelics@...> wrote: >> > This all sounds more and more complex. >> >> Indeed. But some people are like that. >> >> > What is wrong with toner transfer, direct inkjet resist, or scratch-and-etch? >> > Or isolation milling in a CNC mill? >> >> Nothing at all (but he didn't ask about them, he asked about hand or >> machine tools for scratching the surface of a copper board). >> >> Paul, you'd probably get better ideas if you shared with us what >> you're trying to achieve :-) >> >> Mitch. >> >
2012-12-30 by Rick Sparber
I often try to find new ways to do things. Maybe 9 out of 10 times my new way is not better. But for that 1 in 10, the "art" is advanced. So for me it is worth the effort. Rick
-----Original Message----- From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Harvey White Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 3:54 PM To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: alternative pcb ! On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:16:03 -0000, you wrote: > >What I am after, is an innovative way to build a circuit, without much complications ,drilling, designing etc. > >Probably my best choice is a ready made copper board with small isolated anchoring islands, similar to a type of vero board, but with no holes, so they are stronger ! They are very good for RF, my main concern. I have seen them somewhere, so I will start hunting !! There used to be a small tool that was used to create an island around a drill hole. it was effectively a micro sized hole saw. The technique was to drill holes in copper clad where you wanted them, isolate this hole with the tool (as needed) and then bridge from island to island with the parts. You've probably seen that one and decided it's not what you want. A similar approach would be to use a dremel as a router, make a small template that is large enough to manage, and has various patterns in it, then use the dremel as a router to remove the copper around that island. Never seen anyone do this, but it would have an advantage that you could make templates of your favorite circuits with a sheet of scrap aluminum, isolate as needed, (no through holes required) and have essentially the same layout each time. you'd have to be somewhat careful with the depth setting, but a small fixture could be made to allow you fast setup. Harvey
2012-12-31 by r.d. terramir
sounds like your better off etching your own. terramir On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 12:16 PM, pauldebono@... < pauldebono@...> wrote: > > What I am after, is an innovative way to build a circuit, without much > complications ,drilling, designing etc. > > Probably my best choice is a ready made copper board with small isolated > anchoring islands, similar to a type of vero board, but with no holes, so > they are stronger ! They are very good for RF, my main concern. I have > seen them somewhere, so I will start hunting !! > > Paul > > > Probably the best that suits me is a ready made copper > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mitch Davis <mjd@...> wrote: > > > > On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 2:11 AM, AlienRelics <alienrelics@...> wrote: > > > This all sounds more and more complex. > > > > Indeed. But some people are like that. > > > > > What is wrong with toner transfer, direct inkjet resist, or > scratch-and-etch? > > > Or isolation milling in a CNC mill? > > > > Nothing at all (but he didn't ask about them, he asked about hand or > > machine tools for scratching the surface of a copper board). > > > > Paul, you'd probably get better ideas if you shared with us what > > you're trying to achieve :-) > > > > Mitch. > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links > > > > -- Respectfully, R. Daniel Borkan 727 S. Coronado St. 201 Los Angeles, CA 90057 H: (213) 739-1863 C: (213) 271-6721 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2012-12-31 by KeepIt SimpleStupid
Would a wire brush Dremel attachment work? http://www.amazon.com/Dremel-443-Carbon-Steel-Brush/dp/B00004UDHK/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_img_z For a large area, try a scotchbrite pad. --- On Sun, 12/30/12, pauldebono@rocketmail.com <pauldebono@...> wrote:
From: pauldebono@... <pauldebono@...>
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: alternative pcb !
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, December 30, 2012, 4:56 AM
John,
What I am actually looking for is a hand or power tool to scratch the surface of a copper clad board. But not a core drill, something different !
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2012-12-31 by D. Daniel McGlothin
Paul, > What I am after, is an innovative way to build a circuit, without much > complications ,drilling, designing etc. > > Probably my best choice is a ready made copper board with small > isolated anchoring islands, similar to a type of vero board, but with > no holes, so they are stronger ! They are very good for RF, my main > concern. I have seen them somewhere, so I will start hunting !! > I think you said something earlier about Manhatten-style construction. Have you seen these Manhatten-style guidelines, including the one called Manhatten 031 for surface mount? It seems to work well to RF upwards of 1 GHz. The Handyman's Guide to */Manhattan Style Construction Techniques -- Thru-hole -- Part 1/* <http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/%7Epharden/hobby/HG-MANHAT2.pdf>http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~pharden/hobby/HG-MANHAT1.pdf The Handyman's Guide to */Manhattan Style Construction Techniques -- Surface Mount -- Part 2 /*http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~pharden/hobby/HG-MANHAT2.pdf *Hints & Kinks* on building electronic circuits Manhattan Style (a proven QRP copper clad technique) http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~pharden/hobby/_manhat.pdf The links above are from http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~pharden/hobby/Hobby.shtml . For examples of constructed projects using these techniques, check out the last 5 links under "Construction Projects". Daniel KB3MUN [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2012-12-31 by Mitch Davis
On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 3:31 PM, pauldebono@... > > Has anyone came across some other innovative way to cutting clean islands > and tracks ? Someone just heartily recommended this device to me: http://www.harborfreight.com/1-8-eighth-inch-air-micro-die-grinder-47869.html (I haven't used it personally) Mitch.
2012-12-31 by Andrew Hakman
>There used to be a small tool that was used to create an island around >a drill hole. it was effectively a micro sized hole saw. The >technique was to drill holes in copper clad where you wanted them, >isolate this hole with the tool (as needed) and then bridge from >island to island with the parts. I've seen boards built with this. Usually the pre-drilled proto board, but with copper tracks that run from one edge to the other, and you separate the rows into smaller sections with the little hole saw, but I've never seen the tool. Have any info on it? On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 3:54 PM, Harvey White <madyn@...>wrote: > ** > > > On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:16:03 -0000, you wrote: > > > > >What I am after, is an innovative way to build a circuit, without much > complications ,drilling, designing etc. > > > >Probably my best choice is a ready made copper board with small isolated > anchoring islands, similar to a type of vero board, but with no holes, so > they are stronger ! They are very good for RF, my main concern. I have seen > them somewhere, so I will start hunting !! > > There used to be a small tool that was used to create an island around > a drill hole. it was effectively a micro sized hole saw. The > technique was to drill holes in copper clad where you wanted them, > isolate this hole with the tool (as needed) and then bridge from > island to island with the parts. > > You've probably seen that one and decided it's not what you want. A > similar approach would be to use a dremel as a router, make a small > template that is large enough to manage, and has various patterns in > it, then use the dremel as a router to remove the copper around that > island. Never seen anyone do this, but it would have an advantage > that you could make templates of your favorite circuits with a sheet > of scrap aluminum, isolate as needed, (no through holes required) and > have essentially the same layout each time. > > you'd have to be somewhat careful with the depth setting, but a small > fixture could be made to allow you fast setup. > > Harvey > > > > > >Paul > > > > > >Probably the best that suits me is a ready made copper > >--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mitch Davis <mjd@...> wrote: > >> > >> On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 2:11 AM, AlienRelics <alienrelics@...> wrote: > >> > This all sounds more and more complex. > >> > >> Indeed. But some people are like that. > >> > >> > What is wrong with toner transfer, direct inkjet resist, or > scratch-and-etch? > >> > Or isolation milling in a CNC mill? > >> > >> Nothing at all (but he didn't ask about them, he asked about hand or > >> machine tools for scratching the surface of a copper board). > >> > >> Paul, you'd probably get better ideas if you shared with us what > >> you're trying to achieve :-) > >> > >> Mitch. > >> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2012-12-31 by Norm
On 12/31/2012 10:56 AM, Andrew Hakman wrote: >> There used to be a small tool that was used to create an island around >> a drill hole. it was effectively a micro sized hole saw. The >> technique was to drill holes in copper clad where you wanted them, >> isolate this hole with the tool (as needed) and then bridge from >> island to island with the parts. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Try this one: http://www.vectorelect.com/Catpdf/New%20Page%2075-78.pdf Norm W6NIM
2012-12-31 by Pict
On 31/12/2012 22:56, "Andrew Hakman" <andrew.hakman@...> wrote: >>There used to be a small tool that was used to create an island around >>a drill hole. it was effectively a micro sized hole saw. The >>technique was to drill holes in copper clad where you wanted them, >>isolate this hole with the tool (as needed) and then bridge from >>island to island with the parts. > >I've seen boards built with this. Usually the pre-drilled proto board, but >with copper tracks that run from one edge to the other, and you separate >the rows into smaller sections with the little hole saw, but I've never >seen the tool. Have any info on it? I think you are thinking of Veroboard and a tool like this to break the tracks http://www.ebay.com/itm/300816579317 A small drill bit works almost as well. This tool does not create an island of copper, it clears the copper strip away around the hole and breaks the strip into two sections. Regards, John
2012-12-31 by Derward Myrick
This will cut an island on a big PCB. http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=spot+weld+cutter Derward Myrick KD5WWI
----- Original Message -----
From: pauldebono@...
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 2:16 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: alternative pcb !
What I am after, is an innovative way to build a circuit, without much complications ,drilling, designing etc.
Probably my best choice is a ready made copper board with small isolated anchoring islands, similar to a type of vero board, but with no holes, so they are stronger ! They are very good for RF, my main concern. I have seen them somewhere, so I will start hunting !!
Paul
Probably the best that suits me is a ready made copper
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mitch Davis <mjd@...> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 2:11 AM, AlienRelics <alienrelics@...> wrote:
> > This all sounds more and more complex.
>
> Indeed. But some people are like that.
>
> > What is wrong with toner transfer, direct inkjet resist, or scratch-and-etch?
> > Or isolation milling in a CNC mill?
>
> Nothing at all (but he didn't ask about them, he asked about hand or
> machine tools for scratching the surface of a copper board).
>
> Paul, you'd probably get better ideas if you shared with us what
> you're trying to achieve :-)
>
> Mitch.
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2012-12-31 by Andrew Hakman
Actually, the one I saw was the small hole saw version - there was an island of copper left around the hole, and then a cut out ring around that. I guess either method would work, but interesting to see the tool that does that. I've also not seen anyone mention wirewrap in this thread. That's another alternative - just get coperless predrilled board, and use wirewrap. I've actually done a couple projects with wirewrap, and I was using a completely manual wrapping tool (looks like a jewelr's screwdriver), and it was pretty good. With a wrapping gun (which i have now), it would be even faster, but haven't built anything complicated enough to warrant wirewrapping in a while now. I also have a commercial Sony radio from the 70's that's wirewrapped, and soldered. Guess at that time, manual labor was more economical than PCB manufacturing. On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 2:26 PM, Pict <pict@....uk> wrote: > ** > > > > > On 31/12/2012 22:56, "Andrew Hakman" <andrew.hakman@...> wrote: > > >>There used to be a small tool that was used to create an island around > >>a drill hole. it was effectively a micro sized hole saw. The > >>technique was to drill holes in copper clad where you wanted them, > >>isolate this hole with the tool (as needed) and then bridge from > >>island to island with the parts. > > > >I've seen boards built with this. Usually the pre-drilled proto board, but > >with copper tracks that run from one edge to the other, and you separate > >the rows into smaller sections with the little hole saw, but I've never > >seen the tool. Have any info on it? > > I think you are thinking of Veroboard and a tool like this to break the > tracksŠ > http://www.ebay.com/itm/300816579317 > > A small drill bit works almost as well. This tool does not create an > island of copper, it clears the copper strip away around the hole and > breaks the strip into two sections. > > Regards, > John > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2013-01-01 by Harvey White
On Mon, 31 Dec 2012 11:56:48 -0700, you wrote: >>There used to be a small tool that was used to create an island around >>a drill hole. it was effectively a micro sized hole saw. The >>technique was to drill holes in copper clad where you wanted them, >>isolate this hole with the tool (as needed) and then bridge from >>island to island with the parts. > >I've seen boards built with this. Usually the pre-drilled proto board, but >with copper tracks that run from one edge to the other, and you separate >the rows into smaller sections with the little hole saw, but I've never >seen the tool. Have any info on it? > I had one somewhere, I think that OK electronics made it. It cut an island about 3/16 of an inch in diameter, with about 0.050 or so worth of isolation. Very small hand operated (as in wooden handle) hole saw. I think it dates from about the 1960's to roughly 1975 or so, as a guess. You could make one rather easily. Steel tube filed for teeth, insert with a small drill in it, or pin. Mount in drill press with a stop to keep from going too deeply into the board. Nothing spectacular, you could make one with just two teeth on it, and in a drill press, I suspect it would work just fine. Harvey
> >On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 3:54 PM, Harvey White <madyn@...>wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:16:03 -0000, you wrote: >> >> > >> >What I am after, is an innovative way to build a circuit, without much >> complications ,drilling, designing etc. >> > >> >Probably my best choice is a ready made copper board with small isolated >> anchoring islands, similar to a type of vero board, but with no holes, so >> they are stronger ! They are very good for RF, my main concern. I have seen >> them somewhere, so I will start hunting !! >> >> There used to be a small tool that was used to create an island around >> a drill hole. it was effectively a micro sized hole saw. The >> technique was to drill holes in copper clad where you wanted them, >> isolate this hole with the tool (as needed) and then bridge from >> island to island with the parts. >> >> You've probably seen that one and decided it's not what you want. A >> similar approach would be to use a dremel as a router, make a small >> template that is large enough to manage, and has various patterns in >> it, then use the dremel as a router to remove the copper around that >> island. Never seen anyone do this, but it would have an advantage >> that you could make templates of your favorite circuits with a sheet >> of scrap aluminum, isolate as needed, (no through holes required) and >> have essentially the same layout each time. >> >> you'd have to be somewhat careful with the depth setting, but a small >> fixture could be made to allow you fast setup. >> >> Harvey >> >> >> > >> >Paul >> > >> > >> >Probably the best that suits me is a ready made copper >> >--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mitch Davis <mjd@...> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 2:11 AM, AlienRelics <alienrelics@...> wrote: >> >> > This all sounds more and more complex. >> >> >> >> Indeed. But some people are like that. >> >> >> >> > What is wrong with toner transfer, direct inkjet resist, or >> scratch-and-etch? >> >> > Or isolation milling in a CNC mill? >> >> >> >> Nothing at all (but he didn't ask about them, he asked about hand or >> >> machine tools for scratching the surface of a copper board). >> >> >> >> Paul, you'd probably get better ideas if you shared with us what >> >> you're trying to achieve :-) >> >> >> >> Mitch. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >------------------------------------ > >Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links > > >
2013-01-01 by Harvey White
On Mon, 31 Dec 2012 11:37:48 -0800, you wrote: >On 12/31/2012 10:56 AM, Andrew Hakman wrote: >>> There used to be a small tool that was used to create an island around >>> a drill hole. it was effectively a micro sized hole saw. The >>> technique was to drill holes in copper clad where you wanted them, >>> isolate this hole with the tool (as needed) and then bridge from >>> island to island with the parts. >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> ------------------------------------ >Try this one: > >http://www.vectorelect.com/Catpdf/New%20Page%2075-78.pdf That would be it. The number is even familiar. Harvey
> >Norm >W6NIM
2013-01-01 by Harvey White
On Mon, 31 Dec 2012 16:00:10 -0700, you wrote: >Actually, the one I saw was the small hole saw version - there was an >island of copper left around the hole, and then a cut out ring around that. >I guess either method would work, but interesting to see the tool that does >that. > >I've also not seen anyone mention wirewrap in this thread. That's another >alternative - just get coperless predrilled board, and use wirewrap. I've >actually done a couple projects with wirewrap, and I was using a completely >manual wrapping tool (looks like a jewelr's screwdriver), and it was pretty >good. With a wrapping gun (which i have now), it would be even faster, but >haven't built anything complicated enough to warrant wirewrapping in a >while now. I also have a commercial Sony radio from the 70's that's >wirewrapped, and soldered. Guess at that time, manual labor was more >economical than PCB manufacturing. Actually, there were several methods of assembly. Wirewrap used #30 (or #26) Kynar wire, various sized posts, unwrapping tools, wrapping tools, and so on. The main problem was making corrections and the cost of the sockets. A board with pins in an array was very very expensive. IIRC, you could probably get away with about 10 Mhz at the maximum. Commercial wirewrap stations used precut wire, in bins (they had a machine that cut the wire, stripped it partially, and did so to a precise length) with lights on them, and an XY plotter arrangement that moved the wirewrap gun to the appropriate coordinates. The operator picked a wire from the bin with the light lit, put it in the gun, and pushed the gun down over the pin. Squeeze the trigger and it's wrapped. Push a button and the wrapping gun is moved to the next location. Put the end of the wire in the gun, and you've got a connection. Was used for military equipment in the 60's, 70's and 80's I think. Termipoint was similar, but used stranded wire and a rectangular pin (could not be wirewrapped). The stripped wire (about 1/8 inch) was placed against the pin and a clip was forced over the pin and wire, making the electrical contact. Wirewrap stripped the wire to about 1 inch, and wrapped it around the pin at high speed. The pressure welded the wire to the pin and made a gas tight joint. Not at all sure if it made specs if you unwrapped it and did it again. Never did much termipoint, but saw examples. Did a lot of wirewrap, still have the bits and tools. Harvey
> > >On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 2:26 PM, Pict <pict@...> wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> >> >> On 31/12/2012 22:56, "Andrew Hakman" <andrew.hakman@...> wrote: >> >> >>There used to be a small tool that was used to create an island around >> >>a drill hole. it was effectively a micro sized hole saw. The >> >>technique was to drill holes in copper clad where you wanted them, >> >>isolate this hole with the tool (as needed) and then bridge from >> >>island to island with the parts. >> > >> >I've seen boards built with this. Usually the pre-drilled proto board, but >> >with copper tracks that run from one edge to the other, and you separate >> >the rows into smaller sections with the little hole saw, but I've never >> >seen the tool. Have any info on it? >> >> I think you are thinking of Veroboard and a tool like this to break the >> tracks\ufffd >> http://www.ebay.com/itm/300816579317 >> >> A small drill bit works almost as well. This tool does not create an >> island of copper, it clears the copper strip away around the hole and >> breaks the strip into two sections. >> >> Regards, >> John >> >> >> > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2013-01-01 by KeepIt SimpleStupid
There are two tools needed here, one is a track cutter for strip board http://uk.farnell.com/pcb-track and the other is a pad cutter http://www.vectorelect.com/Catpdf/New%20Page%2076.pdf for Vectorboard The pad cutter is very pricy and is available for manual and drill press operation. --- On Mon, 12/31/12, Andrew Hakman <andrew.hakman@...> wrote:
From: Andrew Hakman <andrew.hakman@...> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: alternative pcb ! To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 31, 2012, 1:56 PM >There used to be a small tool that was used to create an island around >a drill hole. it was effectively a micro sized hole saw. The >technique was to drill holes in copper clad where you wanted them, >isolate this hole with the tool (as needed) and then bridge from >island to island with the parts. I've seen boards built with this. Usually the pre-drilled proto board, but with copper tracks that run from one edge to the other, and you separate the rows into smaller sections with the little hole saw, but I've never seen the tool. Have any info on it? <snip> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]