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alternative pcb !

alternative pcb !

2012-12-29 by pauldebono@rocketmail.com

Hi, all,

Wishing you all a holy, prosperous and lots of innovations for the New Year !

So far, I have seen Manhattan/Ugly style construction using a drill, Dremel cutter, superglue pads, etc.

Has anyone came across some other innovative way to cutting clean islands and tracks ?

Paul

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] alternative pcb !

2012-12-29 by Harvey White

On Sat, 29 Dec 2012 07:31:10 -0000, you wrote:

>Hi, all,
>
>Wishing you all a holy, prosperous and lots of innovations for the New Year !
>
>So far, I have seen Manhattan/Ugly style construction using a drill, Dremel cutter, superglue pads, etc.
>
>Has anyone came across some other innovative way to cutting clean islands and tracks ?

CNC router with a rotating tool... (mechanical etching).

Harvey

>
>Paul

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] alternative pcb !

2012-12-29 by r.d. terramir

isolation milling is one of my goals in the future I gotta build a little
mill though for this. just finishing my second reprap, so I know how to
build something like that.
But this is what I'd really like to do, print circuitboards based on a
piezo nozzle or activated syringe. but conductive ink is quite expensive so
I was figuring a mixture of carbon copper and some kind of natural binding
agent print dry instant traces, but it would need to be something that
would last and well based on the mixture of carbon and copper particles you
could print resistors as well :P
but I'll have to do some experiments, I'd figure it would need to be
something that is soluble in denatured or isopropyl alcohol which could
evaporate after it's printed. But the end product would need to be
solderable or be able to attach components with the same solution.
Anyone here working on something like this?
terramir

On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 8:28 AM, Harvey White <madyn@...>wrote:

> On Sat, 29 Dec 2012 07:31:10 -0000, you wrote:
>
> >Hi, all,
> >
> >Wishing you all a holy, prosperous and lots of innovations for the New
> Year !
> >
> >So far, I have seen Manhattan/Ugly style construction using a drill,
> Dremel cutter, superglue pads, etc.
> >
> >Has anyone came across some other innovative way to cutting clean
> islands and tracks ?
>
> CNC router with a rotating tool... (mechanical etching).
>
> Harvey
>
> >
> >Paul
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


--
Respectfully,
R. Daniel Borkan
727 S. Coronado St. 201
Los Angeles, CA 90057
H: (213) 739-1863
C: (213) 271-6721


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: alternative pcb !

2012-12-30 by John

Well, it is more ugly than Ugly Sttle, but glue the components to whatever you want and wire them up with solder thru #30 wire. It works!
de John W8CCW

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "pauldebono@..." <pawlud@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, all,
>
> Wishing you all a holy, prosperous and lots of innovations for the New Year !
>
> So far, I have seen Manhattan/Ugly style construction using a drill, Dremel cutter, superglue pads, etc.
>
> Has anyone came across some other innovative way to cutting clean islands and tracks ?
>
> Paul
>

Re: alternative pcb !

2012-12-30 by pauldebono@rocketmail.com

John,
What I am actually looking for is a hand or power tool to scratch the surface of a copper clad board. But not a core drill, something different !



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jferrell13@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Well, it is more ugly than Ugly Sttle, but glue the components to whatever you want and wire them up with solder thru #30 wire. It works!
> de John W8CCW
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "pauldebono@" <pawlud@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, all,
> >
> > Wishing you all a holy, prosperous and lots of innovations for the New Year !
> >
> > So far, I have seen Manhattan/Ugly style construction using a drill, Dremel cutter, superglue pads, etc.
> >
> > Has anyone came across some other innovative way to cutting clean islands and tracks ?
> >
> > Paul
> >
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: alternative pcb !

2012-12-30 by Mitch Davis

On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 5:56 PM, pauldebono@...
<pauldebono@...> wrote:
> John,
> What I am actually looking for is a hand or power tool to scratch the surface of a copper clad board. But not a core drill, something different !

Hmm, different. Let me think outside the box...

Some kind of punch? Or chisel? Something that buzzes like a tattoo
needle? Something that etches with an arc? Some kind of hand tool
you pull towards you that ploughs a furrow?

Mitch.

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: alternative pcb !

2012-12-30 by Rick Sparber

Have you considered wax based rub on features? Then etch with your favorite acid.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mitch Davis
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 7:04 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: alternative pcb !

On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 5:56 PM, pauldebono@... <pauldebono@...> wrote:
> John,
> What I am actually looking for is a hand or power tool to scratch the surface of a copper clad board. But not a core drill, something different !

Hmm, different. Let me think outside the box...

Some kind of punch? Or chisel? Something that buzzes like a tattoo needle? Something that etches with an arc? Some kind of hand tool you pull towards you that ploughs a furrow?

Mitch.


------------------------------------

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links

Re: alternative pcb !

2012-12-30 by AlienRelics

This all sounds more and more complex.

What is wrong with toner transfer, direct inkjet resist, or scratch-and-etch? Or isolation milling in a CNC mill?

Steve Greenfield AE7HD

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Sparber" <rgsparber@...> wrote:
>
> Have you considered wax based rub on features? Then etch with your favorite acid.
>
> Rick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mitch Davis
> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 7:04 AM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: alternative pcb !
>
> On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 5:56 PM, pauldebono@... <pauldebono@...> wrote:
> > John,
> > What I am actually looking for is a hand or power tool to scratch the surface of a copper clad board. But not a core drill, something different !
>
> Hmm, different. Let me think outside the box...
>
> Some kind of punch? Or chisel? Something that buzzes like a tattoo needle? Something that etches with an arc? Some kind of hand tool you pull towards you that ploughs a furrow?
>
> Mitch.
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: alternative pcb !

2012-12-30 by Mitch Davis

On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 2:11 AM, AlienRelics <alienrelics@...> wrote:
> This all sounds more and more complex.

Indeed. But some people are like that.

> What is wrong with toner transfer, direct inkjet resist, or scratch-and-etch?
> Or isolation milling in a CNC mill?

Nothing at all (but he didn't ask about them, he asked about hand or
machine tools for scratching the surface of a copper board).

Paul, you'd probably get better ideas if you shared with us what
you're trying to achieve :-)

Mitch.

Re: alternative pcb !

2012-12-30 by pauldebono@rocketmail.com

What I am after, is an innovative way to build a circuit, without much complications ,drilling, designing etc.

Probably my best choice is a ready made copper board with small isolated anchoring islands, similar to a type of vero board, but with no holes, so they are stronger ! They are very good for RF, my main concern. I have seen them somewhere, so I will start hunting !!

Paul


Probably the best that suits me is a ready made copper
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mitch Davis <mjd@...> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 2:11 AM, AlienRelics <alienrelics@...> wrote:
> > This all sounds more and more complex.
>
> Indeed. But some people are like that.
>
> > What is wrong with toner transfer, direct inkjet resist, or scratch-and-etch?
> > Or isolation milling in a CNC mill?
>
> Nothing at all (but he didn't ask about them, he asked about hand or
> machine tools for scratching the surface of a copper board).
>
> Paul, you'd probably get better ideas if you shared with us what
> you're trying to achieve :-)
>
> Mitch.
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: alternative pcb !

2012-12-30 by kc8pcj

I have used a dremel tool with a round headed bit. Not the greatest but it did work.


From: pauldebono@...
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 4:56 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: alternative pcb !


John,
What I am actually looking for is a hand or power tool to scratch the surface of a copper clad board. But not a core drill, something different !

--- In mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com, "John" <jferrell13@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Well, it is more ugly than Ugly Sttle, but glue the components to whatever you want and wire them up with solder thru #30 wire. It works!
> de John W8CCW
>
> --- In mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com, "pauldebono@" <pawlud@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, all,
> >
> > Wishing you all a holy, prosperous and lots of innovations for the New Year !
> >
> > So far, I have seen Manhattan/Ugly style construction using a drill, Dremel cutter, superglue pads, etc.
> >
> > Has anyone came across some other innovative way to cutting clean islands and tracks ?
> >
> > Paul
> >
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: alternative pcb !

2012-12-30 by Harvey White

On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:16:03 -0000, you wrote:

>
>What I am after, is an innovative way to build a circuit, without much complications ,drilling, designing etc.
>
>Probably my best choice is a ready made copper board with small isolated anchoring islands, similar to a type of vero board, but with no holes, so they are stronger ! They are very good for RF, my main concern. I have seen them somewhere, so I will start hunting !!

There used to be a small tool that was used to create an island around
a drill hole. it was effectively a micro sized hole saw. The
technique was to drill holes in copper clad where you wanted them,
isolate this hole with the tool (as needed) and then bridge from
island to island with the parts.

You've probably seen that one and decided it's not what you want. A
similar approach would be to use a dremel as a router, make a small
template that is large enough to manage, and has various patterns in
it, then use the dremel as a router to remove the copper around that
island. Never seen anyone do this, but it would have an advantage
that you could make templates of your favorite circuits with a sheet
of scrap aluminum, isolate as needed, (no through holes required) and
have essentially the same layout each time.

you'd have to be somewhat careful with the depth setting, but a small
fixture could be made to allow you fast setup.

Harvey

>
>Paul
>
>
>Probably the best that suits me is a ready made copper
>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mitch Davis <mjd@...> wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 2:11 AM, AlienRelics <alienrelics@...> wrote:
>> > This all sounds more and more complex.
>>
>> Indeed. But some people are like that.
>>
>> > What is wrong with toner transfer, direct inkjet resist, or scratch-and-etch?
>> > Or isolation milling in a CNC mill?
>>
>> Nothing at all (but he didn't ask about them, he asked about hand or
>> machine tools for scratching the surface of a copper board).
>>
>> Paul, you'd probably get better ideas if you shared with us what
>> you're trying to achieve :-)
>>
>> Mitch.
>>
>

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: alternative pcb !

2012-12-30 by Rick Sparber

I often try to find new ways to do things. Maybe 9 out of 10 times my new
way is not better. But for that 1 in 10, the "art" is advanced. So for me it
is worth the effort.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Harvey White
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 3:54 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: alternative pcb !

On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:16:03 -0000, you wrote:

>
>What I am after, is an innovative way to build a circuit, without much
complications ,drilling, designing etc.
>
>Probably my best choice is a ready made copper board with small isolated
anchoring islands, similar to a type of vero board, but with no holes, so
they are stronger ! They are very good for RF, my main concern. I have seen
them somewhere, so I will start hunting !!

There used to be a small tool that was used to create an island around a
drill hole. it was effectively a micro sized hole saw. The technique was
to drill holes in copper clad where you wanted them, isolate this hole with
the tool (as needed) and then bridge from island to island with the parts.

You've probably seen that one and decided it's not what you want. A similar
approach would be to use a dremel as a router, make a small template that is
large enough to manage, and has various patterns in it, then use the dremel
as a router to remove the copper around that island. Never seen anyone do
this, but it would have an advantage that you could make templates of your
favorite circuits with a sheet of scrap aluminum, isolate as needed, (no
through holes required) and have essentially the same layout each time.

you'd have to be somewhat careful with the depth setting, but a small
fixture could be made to allow you fast setup.

Harvey

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: alternative pcb !

2012-12-31 by r.d. terramir

sounds like your better off etching your own.
terramir

On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 12:16 PM, pauldebono@... <
pauldebono@...> wrote:

>
> What I am after, is an innovative way to build a circuit, without much
> complications ,drilling, designing etc.
>
> Probably my best choice is a ready made copper board with small isolated
> anchoring islands, similar to a type of vero board, but with no holes, so
> they are stronger ! They are very good for RF, my main concern. I have
> seen them somewhere, so I will start hunting !!
>
> Paul
>
>
> Probably the best that suits me is a ready made copper
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mitch Davis <mjd@...> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 2:11 AM, AlienRelics <alienrelics@...> wrote:
> > > This all sounds more and more complex.
> >
> > Indeed. But some people are like that.
> >
> > > What is wrong with toner transfer, direct inkjet resist, or
> scratch-and-etch?
> > > Or isolation milling in a CNC mill?
> >
> > Nothing at all (but he didn't ask about them, he asked about hand or
> > machine tools for scratching the surface of a copper board).
> >
> > Paul, you'd probably get better ideas if you shared with us what
> > you're trying to achieve :-)
> >
> > Mitch.
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


--
Respectfully,
R. Daniel Borkan
727 S. Coronado St. 201
Los Angeles, CA 90057
H: (213) 739-1863
C: (213) 271-6721


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: alternative pcb !

2012-12-31 by KeepIt SimpleStupid

Would a wire brush Dremel attachment work? http://www.amazon.com/Dremel-443-Carbon-Steel-Brush/dp/B00004UDHK/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_img_z%c2%a0 For a large area, try a scotchbrite pad.

--- On Sun, 12/30/12, pauldebono@... <pauldebono@...> wrote:

From: pauldebono@... <pauldebono@...>
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: alternative pcb !
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, December 30, 2012, 4:56 AM


























John,

What I am actually looking for is a hand or power tool to scratch the surface of a copper clad board. But not a core drill, something different !




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: alternative pcb !

2012-12-31 by D. Daniel McGlothin

Paul,

> What I am after, is an innovative way to build a circuit, without much
> complications ,drilling, designing etc.
>
> Probably my best choice is a ready made copper board with small
> isolated anchoring islands, similar to a type of vero board, but with
> no holes, so they are stronger ! They are very good for RF, my main
> concern. I have seen them somewhere, so I will start hunting !!
>

I think you said something earlier about Manhatten-style construction.
Have you seen these Manhatten-style guidelines, including the one called
Manhatten 031 for surface mount? It seems to work well to RF upwards of
1 GHz.

The Handyman's Guide to */Manhattan Style Construction Techniques --
Thru-hole -- Part 1/*
<http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/%7Epharden/hobby/HG-MANHAT2.pdf>http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~pharden/hobby/HG-MANHAT1.pdf


The Handyman's Guide to */Manhattan Style Construction Techniques --
Surface Mount -- Part 2
/*http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~pharden/hobby/HG-MANHAT2.pdf

*Hints & Kinks* on building electronic circuits Manhattan Style (a
proven QRP copper clad technique)
http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~pharden/hobby/_manhat.pdf

The links above are from
http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~pharden/hobby/Hobby.shtml . For examples of
constructed projects using these techniques, check out the last 5 links
under "Construction Projects".

Daniel KB3MUN


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: alternative pcb !

2012-12-31 by Andrew Hakman

>There used to be a small tool that was used to create an island around
>a drill hole. it was effectively a micro sized hole saw. The
>technique was to drill holes in copper clad where you wanted them,
>isolate this hole with the tool (as needed) and then bridge from
>island to island with the parts.

I've seen boards built with this. Usually the pre-drilled proto board, but
with copper tracks that run from one edge to the other, and you separate
the rows into smaller sections with the little hole saw, but I've never
seen the tool. Have any info on it?


On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 3:54 PM, Harvey White <madyn@...>wrote:

> **
>
>
> On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:16:03 -0000, you wrote:
>
> >
> >What I am after, is an innovative way to build a circuit, without much
> complications ,drilling, designing etc.
> >
> >Probably my best choice is a ready made copper board with small isolated
> anchoring islands, similar to a type of vero board, but with no holes, so
> they are stronger ! They are very good for RF, my main concern. I have seen
> them somewhere, so I will start hunting !!
>
> There used to be a small tool that was used to create an island around
> a drill hole. it was effectively a micro sized hole saw. The
> technique was to drill holes in copper clad where you wanted them,
> isolate this hole with the tool (as needed) and then bridge from
> island to island with the parts.
>
> You've probably seen that one and decided it's not what you want. A
> similar approach would be to use a dremel as a router, make a small
> template that is large enough to manage, and has various patterns in
> it, then use the dremel as a router to remove the copper around that
> island. Never seen anyone do this, but it would have an advantage
> that you could make templates of your favorite circuits with a sheet
> of scrap aluminum, isolate as needed, (no through holes required) and
> have essentially the same layout each time.
>
> you'd have to be somewhat careful with the depth setting, but a small
> fixture could be made to allow you fast setup.
>
> Harvey
>
>
> >
> >Paul
> >
> >
> >Probably the best that suits me is a ready made copper
> >--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mitch Davis <mjd@...> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 2:11 AM, AlienRelics <alienrelics@...> wrote:
> >> > This all sounds more and more complex.
> >>
> >> Indeed. But some people are like that.
> >>
> >> > What is wrong with toner transfer, direct inkjet resist, or
> scratch-and-etch?
> >> > Or isolation milling in a CNC mill?
> >>
> >> Nothing at all (but he didn't ask about them, he asked about hand or
> >> machine tools for scratching the surface of a copper board).
> >>
> >> Paul, you'd probably get better ideas if you shared with us what
> >> you're trying to achieve :-)
> >>
> >> Mitch.
> >>
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: alternative pcb !

2012-12-31 by Norm

On 12/31/2012 10:56 AM, Andrew Hakman wrote:
>> There used to be a small tool that was used to create an island around
>> a drill hole. it was effectively a micro sized hole saw. The
>> technique was to drill holes in copper clad where you wanted them,
>> isolate this hole with the tool (as needed) and then bridge from
>> island to island with the parts.
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> ------------------------------------
Try this one:

http://www.vectorelect.com/Catpdf/New%20Page%2075-78.pdf

Norm
W6NIM

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: alternative pcb !

2012-12-31 by Pict

On 31/12/2012 22:56, "Andrew Hakman" <andrew.hakman@...> wrote:

>>There used to be a small tool that was used to create an island around
>>a drill hole. it was effectively a micro sized hole saw. The
>>technique was to drill holes in copper clad where you wanted them,
>>isolate this hole with the tool (as needed) and then bridge from
>>island to island with the parts.
>
>I've seen boards built with this. Usually the pre-drilled proto board, but
>with copper tracks that run from one edge to the other, and you separate
>the rows into smaller sections with the little hole saw, but I've never
>seen the tool. Have any info on it?


I think you are thinking of Veroboard and a tool like this to break the
tracksŠ
http://www.ebay.com/itm/300816579317

A small drill bit works almost as well. This tool does not create an
island of copper, it clears the copper strip away around the hole and
breaks the strip into two sections.

Regards,
John

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: alternative pcb !

2012-12-31 by Derward Myrick

This will cut an island on a big PCB.

http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=spot+weld+cutter

Derward Myrick KD5WWI


----- Original Message -----
From: pauldebono@...
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 2:16 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: alternative pcb !




What I am after, is an innovative way to build a circuit, without much complications ,drilling, designing etc.

Probably my best choice is a ready made copper board with small isolated anchoring islands, similar to a type of vero board, but with no holes, so they are stronger ! They are very good for RF, my main concern. I have seen them somewhere, so I will start hunting !!

Paul

Probably the best that suits me is a ready made copper
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mitch Davis <mjd@...> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 2:11 AM, AlienRelics <alienrelics@...> wrote:
> > This all sounds more and more complex.
>
> Indeed. But some people are like that.
>
> > What is wrong with toner transfer, direct inkjet resist, or scratch-and-etch?
> > Or isolation milling in a CNC mill?
>
> Nothing at all (but he didn't ask about them, he asked about hand or
> machine tools for scratching the surface of a copper board).
>
> Paul, you'd probably get better ideas if you shared with us what
> you're trying to achieve :-)
>
> Mitch.
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: alternative pcb !

2012-12-31 by Andrew Hakman

Actually, the one I saw was the small hole saw version - there was an
island of copper left around the hole, and then a cut out ring around that.
I guess either method would work, but interesting to see the tool that does
that.

I've also not seen anyone mention wirewrap in this thread. That's another
alternative - just get coperless predrilled board, and use wirewrap. I've
actually done a couple projects with wirewrap, and I was using a completely
manual wrapping tool (looks like a jewelr's screwdriver), and it was pretty
good. With a wrapping gun (which i have now), it would be even faster, but
haven't built anything complicated enough to warrant wirewrapping in a
while now. I also have a commercial Sony radio from the 70's that's
wirewrapped, and soldered. Guess at that time, manual labor was more
economical than PCB manufacturing.


On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 2:26 PM, Pict <pict@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
>
>
> On 31/12/2012 22:56, "Andrew Hakman" <andrew.hakman@...> wrote:
>
> >>There used to be a small tool that was used to create an island around
> >>a drill hole. it was effectively a micro sized hole saw. The
> >>technique was to drill holes in copper clad where you wanted them,
> >>isolate this hole with the tool (as needed) and then bridge from
> >>island to island with the parts.
> >
> >I've seen boards built with this. Usually the pre-drilled proto board, but
> >with copper tracks that run from one edge to the other, and you separate
> >the rows into smaller sections with the little hole saw, but I've never
> >seen the tool. Have any info on it?
>
> I think you are thinking of Veroboard and a tool like this to break the
> tracksŠ
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/300816579317
>
> A small drill bit works almost as well. This tool does not create an
> island of copper, it clears the copper strip away around the hole and
> breaks the strip into two sections.
>
> Regards,
> John
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: alternative pcb !

2013-01-01 by Harvey White

On Mon, 31 Dec 2012 11:56:48 -0700, you wrote:

>>There used to be a small tool that was used to create an island around
>>a drill hole. it was effectively a micro sized hole saw. The
>>technique was to drill holes in copper clad where you wanted them,
>>isolate this hole with the tool (as needed) and then bridge from
>>island to island with the parts.
>
>I've seen boards built with this. Usually the pre-drilled proto board, but
>with copper tracks that run from one edge to the other, and you separate
>the rows into smaller sections with the little hole saw, but I've never
>seen the tool. Have any info on it?
>

I had one somewhere, I think that OK electronics made it. It cut an
island about 3/16 of an inch in diameter, with about 0.050 or so worth
of isolation. Very small hand operated (as in wooden handle) hole
saw.

I think it dates from about the 1960's to roughly 1975 or so, as a
guess.

You could make one rather easily. Steel tube filed for teeth, insert
with a small drill in it, or pin. Mount in drill press with a stop to
keep from going too deeply into the board.

Nothing spectacular, you could make one with just two teeth on it, and
in a drill press, I suspect it would work just fine.

Harvey

>
>On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 3:54 PM, Harvey White <madyn@...>wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:16:03 -0000, you wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >What I am after, is an innovative way to build a circuit, without much
>> complications ,drilling, designing etc.
>> >
>> >Probably my best choice is a ready made copper board with small isolated
>> anchoring islands, similar to a type of vero board, but with no holes, so
>> they are stronger ! They are very good for RF, my main concern. I have seen
>> them somewhere, so I will start hunting !!
>>
>> There used to be a small tool that was used to create an island around
>> a drill hole. it was effectively a micro sized hole saw. The
>> technique was to drill holes in copper clad where you wanted them,
>> isolate this hole with the tool (as needed) and then bridge from
>> island to island with the parts.
>>
>> You've probably seen that one and decided it's not what you want. A
>> similar approach would be to use a dremel as a router, make a small
>> template that is large enough to manage, and has various patterns in
>> it, then use the dremel as a router to remove the copper around that
>> island. Never seen anyone do this, but it would have an advantage
>> that you could make templates of your favorite circuits with a sheet
>> of scrap aluminum, isolate as needed, (no through holes required) and
>> have essentially the same layout each time.
>>
>> you'd have to be somewhat careful with the depth setting, but a small
>> fixture could be made to allow you fast setup.
>>
>> Harvey
>>
>>
>> >
>> >Paul
>> >
>> >
>> >Probably the best that suits me is a ready made copper
>> >--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mitch Davis <mjd@...> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 2:11 AM, AlienRelics <alienrelics@...> wrote:
>> >> > This all sounds more and more complex.
>> >>
>> >> Indeed. But some people are like that.
>> >>
>> >> > What is wrong with toner transfer, direct inkjet resist, or
>> scratch-and-etch?
>> >> > Or isolation milling in a CNC mill?
>> >>
>> >> Nothing at all (but he didn't ask about them, he asked about hand or
>> >> machine tools for scratching the surface of a copper board).
>> >>
>> >> Paul, you'd probably get better ideas if you shared with us what
>> >> you're trying to achieve :-)
>> >>
>> >> Mitch.
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: alternative pcb !

2013-01-01 by Harvey White

On Mon, 31 Dec 2012 11:37:48 -0800, you wrote:

>On 12/31/2012 10:56 AM, Andrew Hakman wrote:
>>> There used to be a small tool that was used to create an island around
>>> a drill hole. it was effectively a micro sized hole saw. The
>>> technique was to drill holes in copper clad where you wanted them,
>>> isolate this hole with the tool (as needed) and then bridge from
>>> island to island with the parts.
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> ------------------------------------
>Try this one:
>
>http://www.vectorelect.com/Catpdf/New%20Page%2075-78.pdf

That would be it. The number is even familiar.

Harvey

>
>Norm
>W6NIM

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: alternative pcb !

2013-01-01 by Harvey White

On Mon, 31 Dec 2012 16:00:10 -0700, you wrote:

>Actually, the one I saw was the small hole saw version - there was an
>island of copper left around the hole, and then a cut out ring around that.
>I guess either method would work, but interesting to see the tool that does
>that.
>
>I've also not seen anyone mention wirewrap in this thread. That's another
>alternative - just get coperless predrilled board, and use wirewrap. I've
>actually done a couple projects with wirewrap, and I was using a completely
>manual wrapping tool (looks like a jewelr's screwdriver), and it was pretty
>good. With a wrapping gun (which i have now), it would be even faster, but
>haven't built anything complicated enough to warrant wirewrapping in a
>while now. I also have a commercial Sony radio from the 70's that's
>wirewrapped, and soldered. Guess at that time, manual labor was more
>economical than PCB manufacturing.

Actually, there were several methods of assembly. Wirewrap used #30
(or #26) Kynar wire, various sized posts, unwrapping tools, wrapping
tools, and so on. The main problem was making corrections and the
cost of the sockets. A board with pins in an array was very very
expensive. IIRC, you could probably get away with about 10 Mhz at the
maximum.

Commercial wirewrap stations used precut wire, in bins (they had a
machine that cut the wire, stripped it partially, and did so to a
precise length) with lights on them, and an XY plotter arrangement
that moved the wirewrap gun to the appropriate coordinates. The
operator picked a wire from the bin with the light lit, put it in the
gun, and pushed the gun down over the pin. Squeeze the trigger and
it's wrapped. Push a button and the wrapping gun is moved to the next
location. Put the end of the wire in the gun, and you've got a
connection.

Was used for military equipment in the 60's, 70's and 80's I think.

Termipoint was similar, but used stranded wire and a rectangular pin
(could not be wirewrapped). The stripped wire (about 1/8 inch) was
placed against the pin and a clip was forced over the pin and wire,
making the electrical contact. Wirewrap stripped the wire to about 1
inch, and wrapped it around the pin at high speed. The pressure
welded the wire to the pin and made a gas tight joint. Not at all
sure if it made specs if you unwrapped it and did it again.

Never did much termipoint, but saw examples. Did a lot of wirewrap,
still have the bits and tools.

Harvey

>
>
>On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 2:26 PM, Pict <pict@...> wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 31/12/2012 22:56, "Andrew Hakman" <andrew.hakman@...> wrote:
>>
>> >>There used to be a small tool that was used to create an island around
>> >>a drill hole. it was effectively a micro sized hole saw. The
>> >>technique was to drill holes in copper clad where you wanted them,
>> >>isolate this hole with the tool (as needed) and then bridge from
>> >>island to island with the parts.
>> >
>> >I've seen boards built with this. Usually the pre-drilled proto board, but
>> >with copper tracks that run from one edge to the other, and you separate
>> >the rows into smaller sections with the little hole saw, but I've never
>> >seen the tool. Have any info on it?
>>
>> I think you are thinking of Veroboard and a tool like this to break the
>> tracksŠ
>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/300816579317
>>
>> A small drill bit works almost as well. This tool does not create an
>> island of copper, it clears the copper strip away around the hole and
>> breaks the strip into two sections.
>>
>> Regards,
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: alternative pcb !

2013-01-01 by KeepIt SimpleStupid

There are two tools needed here, one is a track cutter for strip board http://uk.farnell.com/pcb-track%c2%a0 and the other is a pad cutter http://www.vectorelect.com/Catpdf/New%20Page%2076.pdf for Vectorboard

The pad cutter is very pricy and is available for manual and drill press operation.

--- On Mon, 12/31/12, Andrew Hakman <andrew.hakman@...> wrote:

From: Andrew Hakman <andrew.hakman@...>
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: alternative pcb !
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, December 31, 2012, 1:56 PM

>There used to be a small tool that was used to create an island around
>a drill hole. it was effectively a micro sized hole saw. The
>technique was to drill holes in copper clad where you wanted them,
>isolate this hole with the tool (as needed) and then bridge from
>island to island with the parts.

I've seen boards built with this. Usually the pre-drilled proto board, but
with copper tracks that run from one edge to the other, and you separate
the rows into smaller sections with the little hole saw, but I've never
seen the tool. Have any info on it?


<snip>



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