Homebrew PCBs

>
> Hello,
> 
> I need to get a bit more heat out of this GBC Creative Laminator.  Very close but probably another 10-20C would be what I need (ability to adjust would be EXCELLENT). How do I go about accomplishing my goal.  Has the Daewoo KSD602 thermostat - http://www.daewood.com.hk/en/productdetail.asp?id=122&sortid=210&pid=.
> 
> http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator001.jpg
> 
> http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator002.jpg
> 
> http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator003.jpg
> 
> http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator004.jpg
> 
> http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator005.jpg
> 
> Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.  I did not remove the power board area but have no problems going into that area - I am so close, I just feel the toner is not being 'baked' onto the copper clad quite enough to stand up to the time in the muriatic acid / H2O2 w/ the bubbler and small, important pieces are coming off.  Doing .5mm pitch smd work.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Bob
>

>
> Hello,
> 
> I need to get a bit more heat out of this GBC Creative Laminator.  Very close but probably another 10-20C would be what I need (ability to adjust would be EXCELLENT). How do I go about accomplishing my goal.  Has the Daewoo KSD602 thermostat - http://www.daewood.com.hk/en/productdetail.asp?id=122&sortid=210&pid=.
> 
> http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator001.jpg
> 
> http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator002.jpg
> 
> http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator003.jpg
> 
> http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator004.jpg
> 
> http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator005.jpg
> 
> Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.  I did not remove the power board area but have no problems going into that area - I am so close, I just feel the toner is not being 'baked' onto the copper clad quite enough to stand up to the time in the muriatic acid / H2O2 w/ the bubbler and small, important pieces are coming off.  Doing .5mm pitch smd work.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Bob
>

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of smilingcat90254
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 1:05 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Need More Heat - GBC Laminator (pics included)

 

  

I've been using a thermal press with direct temperature read out on the
aluminum heat plate. I can set temperature and pressure on the thermal
press. 

HP toner will melt around 110C. might be even lower around 105C or so. At
lower temperature, the toner may have a harder time fusing onto the copper.

Copper needs to be ultra clean. I use 0000 steel wool. followed by scrubbing
with TSP solution using scotch brite (green) pad, then rinse with water then
cleaned with isopropyl alcohol. Wear glove through out the process. Laminate
image immediately to reduce contaminating the copper surface and oxidation.
Someone thought oxidizing in the etcher for few second made the image adhere
better. Haven't tried so have no comment about oxidizing surface.

I really do need reliable repeatability down to 6/6 mil. I may go to
photoresist. Found a source at around $3.00/ft^2. Not cheap but claims to
get images down to 1/1 mil. Stuff is called puretch. Distributor is an
artist out of South Carolina. Think and Tinker has similar material not as
high performance at around ??$2.00?? per square feet but you need to spend
over $100.00 for the minimum quantity.

Result I'm getting out of photopaper of all different kinds, specially
formulated toner transfer paper is just not cutting it for me.

Anyway, temperature set it around 105C to about 130C. At 115C and above the
plastic coating on the photopaper will decompose and will turn into hard
white film.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> , "dubob4432" <dubob4432@...>
wrote:
>
> Hello,
> 
> I need to get a bit more heat out of this GBC Creative Laminator. Very
close but probably another 10-20C would be what I need (ability to adjust
would be EXCELLENT). How do I go about accomplishing my goal. Has the Daewoo
KSD602 thermostat - http://www.daewood.com.hk/en/productdetail.asp?id=122
<http://www.daewood.com.hk/en/productdetail.asp?id=122&sortid=210&pid=.>
&sortid=210&pid=.
> 
> http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator001.jpg
> 
> http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator002.jpg
> 
> http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator003.jpg
> 
> http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator004.jpg
> 
> http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator005.jpg
> 
> Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. I did not remove the power
board area but have no problems going into that area - I am so close, I just
feel the toner is not being 'baked' onto the copper clad quite enough to
stand up to the time in the muriatic acid / H2O2 w/ the bubbler and small,
important pieces are coming off. Doing .5mm pitch smd work.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Bob
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> Thanks in advance,
> Bob
>

>
> Insulating the snap switch (temperature switch) from the aluminum heater bars will raise the temperature. On mine the snap switch is held on by a screw, put a piece of bare circuit board or cardboard on each side of the tab on the switch. Experiment with thickness till you get good results.
> 
> RD
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

>
> I've been using a thermal press with direct temperature read out on the aluminum heat plate. I can set temperature and pressure on the thermal press. 
> 
> HP toner will melt around 110C. might be even lower around 105C or so. At lower temperature, the toner may have a harder time fusing onto the copper.
> 
> Copper needs to be ultra clean. I use 0000 steel wool. followed by scrubbing with TSP solution using scotch brite (green) pad, then rinse with water then cleaned with isopropyl alcohol. Wear glove through out the process. Laminate image immediately to reduce contaminating the copper surface and oxidation. Someone thought oxidizing in the etcher for few second made the image adhere better. Haven't tried so have no comment about oxidizing surface.
> 
> I really do need reliable repeatability down to 6/6 mil. I may go to photoresist. Found a source at around $3.00/ft^2. Not cheap but claims to get images down to 1/1 mil. Stuff is called puretch. Distributor is an artist out of South Carolina. Think and Tinker has similar material not as high performance at around ??$2.00?? per square feet but you need to spend over $100.00 for the minimum quantity.
> 
> Result I'm getting out of photopaper of all different kinds, specially formulated toner transfer paper is just not cutting it for me.
> 
> Anyway, temperature set it around 105C to about 130C. At 115C and above the plastic coating on the photopaper will decompose and will turn into hard white film.
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "dubob4432" <dubob4432@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I need to get a bit more heat out of this GBC Creative Laminator.  Very close but probably another 10-20C would be what I need (ability to adjust would be EXCELLENT). How do I go about accomplishing my goal.  Has the Daewoo KSD602 thermostat - http://www.daewood.com.hk/en/productdetail.asp?id=122&sortid=210&pid=.
> > 
> > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator001.jpg
> > 
> > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator002.jpg
> > 
> > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator003.jpg
> > 
> > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator004.jpg
> > 
> > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator005.jpg
> > 
> > Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.  I did not remove the power board area but have no problems going into that area - I am so close, I just feel the toner is not being 'baked' onto the copper clad quite enough to stand up to the time in the muriatic acid / H2O2 w/ the bubbler and small, important pieces are coming off.  Doing .5mm pitch smd work.
> > 
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Bob
> >
>

 From: dubob4432 <dubob4432@...>
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 12:27 AM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Need More Heat - GBC Laminator (pics included)
 

  
Maybe I am using too much heat - I prep as you recommend and once done, I put the piece in water and let the paper come off.  Once it dries, the traces are black but slowly turn white as if paper is adhered to the paper.

Possibly I am going the wrong way?  Maybe just 1-2 passes through the laminator and not 10?

Thoughts?

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "smilingcat90254" <smilingcat@...> wrote:
>
> I've been using a thermal press with direct temperature read out on the aluminum heat plate. I can set temperature and pressure on the thermal press. 
> 
> HP toner will melt around 110C. might be even lower around 105C or so. At lower temperature, the toner may have a harder time fusing onto the copper.
> 
> Copper needs to be ultra clean. I use 0000 steel wool. followed by scrubbing with TSP solution using scotch brite (green) pad, then rinse with water then cleaned with isopropyl alcohol. Wear glove through out the process. Laminate image immediately to reduce contaminating the copper surface and oxidation. Someone thought oxidizing in the etcher for few second made the image adhere better. Haven't tried so have no comment about oxidizing surface.
> 
> I really do need reliable repeatability down to 6/6 mil. I may go to photoresist. Found a source at around $3.00/ft^2. Not cheap but claims to get images down to 1/1 mil. Stuff is called puretch. Distributor is an artist out of South Carolina. Think and Tinker has similar material not as high performance at around ??$2.00?? per square feet but you need to spend over $100.00 for the minimum quantity.
> 
> Result I'm getting out of photopaper of all different kinds, specially formulated toner transfer paper is just not cutting it for me.
> 
> Anyway, temperature set it around 105C to about 130C. At 115C and above the plastic coating on the photopaper will decompose and will turn into hard white film.
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "dubob4432" <dubob4432@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I need to get a bit more heat out of this GBC Creative Laminator.  Very close but probably another 10-20C would be what I need (ability to adjust would be EXCELLENT). How do I go about accomplishing my goal.  Has the Daewoo KSD602 thermostat - http://www.daewood.com.hk/en/productdetail.asp?id=122&sortid=210&pid=.
> > 
> > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator001.jpg
> > 
> > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator002.jpg
> > 
> > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator003.jpg
> > 
> > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator004.jpg
> > 
> > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator005.jpg
> > 
> > Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.  I did not remove the power board area but have no problems going into that area - I am so close, I just feel the toner is not being 'baked' onto the copper clad quite enough to stand up to the time in the muriatic acid / H2O2 w/ the bubbler and small, important pieces are coming off.  Doing .5mm pitch smd work.
> > 
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Bob
> >
>


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> Mine do that also, after I remove the paper when it is done soaking. I rub my fingers over the traces underneath running water just to get rid of the paper residue. Your tracks should stay on the board as it takes a lot to remove the toner.
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
>  From: dubob4432 <dubob4432@...>
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 12:27 AM
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Need More Heat - GBC Laminator (pics included)
>  
> 
> Â  
> Maybe I am using too much heat - I prep as you recommend and once done, I put the piece in water and let the paper come off.  Once it dries, the traces are black but slowly turn white as if paper is adhered to the paper.
> 
> Possibly I am going the wrong way?  Maybe just 1-2 passes through the laminator and not 10?
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "smilingcat90254" <smilingcat@> wrote:
> >
> > I've been using a thermal press with direct temperature read out on the aluminum heat plate. I can set temperature and pressure on the thermal press. 
> > 
> > HP toner will melt around 110C. might be even lower around 105C or so. At lower temperature, the toner may have a harder time fusing onto the copper.
> > 
> > Copper needs to be ultra clean. I use 0000 steel wool. followed by scrubbing with TSP solution using scotch brite (green) pad, then rinse with water then cleaned with isopropyl alcohol. Wear glove through out the process. Laminate image immediately to reduce contaminating the copper surface and oxidation. Someone thought oxidizing in the etcher for few second made the image adhere better. Haven't tried so have no comment about oxidizing surface.
> > 
> > I really do need reliable repeatability down to 6/6 mil. I may go to photoresist. Found a source at around $3.00/ft^2. Not cheap but claims to get images down to 1/1 mil. Stuff is called puretch. Distributor is an artist out of South Carolina. Think and Tinker has similar material not as high performance at around ??$2.00?? per square feet but you need to spend over $100.00 for the minimum quantity.
> > 
> > Result I'm getting out of photopaper of all different kinds, specially formulated toner transfer paper is just not cutting it for me.
> > 
> > Anyway, temperature set it around 105C to about 130C. At 115C and above the plastic coating on the photopaper will decompose and will turn into hard white film.
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "dubob4432" <dubob4432@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > > 
> > > I need to get a bit more heat out of this GBC Creative Laminator.  Very close but probably another 10-20C would be what I need (ability to adjust would be EXCELLENT). How do I go about accomplishing my goal.  Has the Daewoo KSD602 thermostat - http://www.daewood.com.hk/en/productdetail.asp?id=122&sortid=210&pid=.
> > > 
> > > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator001.jpg
> > > 
> > > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator002.jpg
> > > 
> > > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator003.jpg
> > > 
> > > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator004.jpg
> > > 
> > > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator005.jpg
> > > 
> > > Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.  I did not remove the power board area but have no problems going into that area - I am so close, I just feel the toner is not being 'baked' onto the copper clad quite enough to stand up to the time in the muriatic acid / H2O2 w/ the bubbler and small, important pieces are coming off.  Doing .5mm pitch smd work.
> > > 
> > > Thanks in advance,
> > > Bob
> > >
> >
> 
> 
>  
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

>
> Maybe I am using too much heat - I prep as you recommend and once done, I put the piece in water and let the paper come off.  Once it dries, the traces are black but slowly turn white as if paper is adhered to the paper.
> 
> Possibly I am going the wrong way?  Maybe just 1-2 passes through the laminator and not 10?
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "smilingcat90254" <smilingcat@> wrote:
> >
> > I've been using a thermal press with direct temperature read out on the aluminum heat plate. I can set temperature and pressure on the thermal press. 
> > 
> > HP toner will melt around 110C. might be even lower around 105C or so. At lower temperature, the toner may have a harder time fusing onto the copper.
> > 
> > Copper needs to be ultra clean. I use 0000 steel wool. followed by scrubbing with TSP solution using scotch brite (green) pad, then rinse with water then cleaned with isopropyl alcohol. Wear glove through out the process. Laminate image immediately to reduce contaminating the copper surface and oxidation. Someone thought oxidizing in the etcher for few second made the image adhere better. Haven't tried so have no comment about oxidizing surface.
> > 
> > I really do need reliable repeatability down to 6/6 mil. I may go to photoresist. Found a source at around $3.00/ft^2. Not cheap but claims to get images down to 1/1 mil. Stuff is called puretch. Distributor is an artist out of South Carolina. Think and Tinker has similar material not as high performance at around ??$2.00?? per square feet but you need to spend over $100.00 for the minimum quantity.
> > 
> > Result I'm getting out of photopaper of all different kinds, specially formulated toner transfer paper is just not cutting it for me.
> > 
> > Anyway, temperature set it around 105C to about 130C. At 115C and above the plastic coating on the photopaper will decompose and will turn into hard white film.
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "dubob4432" <dubob4432@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > > 
> > > I need to get a bit more heat out of this GBC Creative Laminator.  Very close but probably another 10-20C would be what I need (ability to adjust would be EXCELLENT). How do I go about accomplishing my goal.  Has the Daewoo KSD602 thermostat - http://www.daewood.com.hk/en/productdetail.asp?id=122&sortid=210&pid=.
> > > 
> > > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator001.jpg
> > > 
> > > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator002.jpg
> > > 
> > > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator003.jpg
> > > 
> > > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator004.jpg
> > > 
> > > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator005.jpg
> > > 
> > > Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.  I did not remove the power board area but have no problems going into that area - I am so close, I just feel the toner is not being 'baked' onto the copper clad quite enough to stand up to the time in the muriatic acid / H2O2 w/ the bubbler and small, important pieces are coming off.  Doing .5mm pitch smd work.
> > > 
> > > Thanks in advance,
> > > Bob
> > >
> >
>

 From: dubob4432 <dubob4432@...>
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 1:57 AM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Need More Heat - GBC Laminator (pics included)
 

  
Maybe I will remove the paper like you describe and then heat up the toner w/ hot air? 

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@...m, Spencer <upnxwood16@...> wrote:
>
> Mine do that also, after I remove the paper when it is done soaking. I rub my fingers over the traces underneath running water just to get rid of the paper residue. Your tracks should stay on the board as it takes a lot to remove the toner.
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
>  From: dubob4432 <dubob4432@...>
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 12:27 AM
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Need More Heat - GBC Laminator (pics included)
> 
> 
> Â  
> Maybe I am using too much heat - I prep as you recommend and once done, I put the piece in water and let the paper come off.  Once it dries, the traces are black but slowly turn white as if paper is adhered to the paper.
> 
> Possibly I am going the wrong way?  Maybe just 1-2 passes through the laminator and not 10?
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "smilingcat90254" <smilingcat@> wrote:
> >
> > I've been using a thermal press with direct temperature read out on the aluminum heat plate. I can set temperature and pressure on the thermal press. 
> > 
> > HP toner will melt around 110C. might be even lower around 105C or so. At lower temperature, the toner may have a harder time fusing onto the copper.
> > 
> > Copper needs to be ultra clean. I use 0000 steel wool. followed by scrubbing with TSP solution using scotch brite (green) pad, then rinse with water then cleaned with isopropyl alcohol. Wear glove through out the process. Laminate image immediately to reduce contaminating the copper surface and oxidation. Someone thought oxidizing in the etcher for few second made the image adhere better. Haven't tried so have no comment about oxidizing surface.
> > 
> > I really do need reliable repeatability down to 6/6 mil. I may go to photoresist. Found a source at around $3.00/ft^2. Not cheap but claims to get images down to 1/1 mil. Stuff is called puretch. Distributor is an artist out of South Carolina. Think and Tinker has similar material not as high performance at around ??$2.00?? per square feet but you need to spend over $100.00 for the minimum quantity.
> > 
> > Result I'm getting out of photopaper of all different kinds, specially formulated toner transfer paper is just not cutting it for me.
> > 
> > Anyway, temperature set it around 105C to about 130C. At 115C and above the plastic coating on the photopaper will decompose and will turn into hard white film.
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "dubob4432" <dubob4432@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > > 
> > > I need to get a bit more heat out of this GBC Creative Laminator.  Very close but probably another 10-20C would be what I need (ability to adjust would be EXCELLENT). How do I go about accomplishing my goal.  Has the Daewoo KSD602 thermostat - http://www.daewood.com.hk/en/productdetail.asp?id=122&sortid=210&pid=.
> > > 
> > > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator001.jpg
> > > 
> > > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator002.jpg
> > > 
> > > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator003.jpg
> > > 
> > > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator004.jpg
> > > 
> > > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator005.jpg
> > > 
> > > Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.  I did not remove the power board area but have no problems going into that area - I am so close, I just feel the toner is not being 'baked' onto the copper clad quite enough to stand up to the time in the muriatic acid / H2O2 w/ the bubbler and small, important pieces are coming off.  Doing .5mm pitch smd work.
> > > 
> > > Thanks in advance,
> > > Bob
> > >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 From: tda7000 <Tda7000@xtra.co.nz>
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 5:08 AM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Need More Heat - GBC Laminator (pics included)
 

  
I get the white residue when using magazine paper. You won't get it if you use proper transfer paper.

It doesn't make a difference to the board, just looks weird.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "dubob4432" <dubob4432@...> wrote:
>
> Maybe I am using too much heat - I prep as you recommend and once done, I put the piece in water and let the paper come off.  Once it dries, the traces are black but slowly turn white as if paper is adhered to the paper.
> 
> Possibly I am going the wrong way?  Maybe just 1-2 passes through the laminator and not 10?
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "smilingcat90254" <smilingcat@> wrote:
> >
> > I've been using a thermal press with direct temperature read out on the aluminum heat plate. I can set temperature and pressure on the thermal press. 
> > 
> > HP toner will melt around 110C. might be even lower around 105C or so. At lower temperature, the toner may have a harder time fusing onto the copper.
> > 
> > Copper needs to be ultra clean. I use 0000 steel wool. followed by scrubbing with TSP solution using scotch brite (green) pad, then rinse with water then cleaned with isopropyl alcohol. Wear glove through out the process. Laminate image immediately to reduce contaminating the copper surface and oxidation. Someone thought oxidizing in the etcher for few second made the image adhere better. Haven't tried so have no comment about oxidizing surface.
> > 
> > I really do need reliable repeatability down to 6/6 mil. I may go to photoresist. Found a source at around $3.00/ft^2. Not cheap but claims to get images down to 1/1 mil. Stuff is called puretch. Distributor is an artist out of South Carolina. Think and Tinker has similar material not as high performance at around ??$2.00?? per square feet but you need to spend over $100.00 for the minimum quantity.
> > 
> > Result I'm getting out of photopaper of all different kinds, specially formulated toner transfer paper is just not cutting it for me.
> > 
> > Anyway, temperature set it around 105C to about 130C. At 115C and above the plastic coating on the photopaper will decompose and will turn into hard white film.
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "dubob4432" <dubob4432@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > > 
> > > I need to get a bit more heat out of this GBC Creative Laminator.  Very close but probably another 10-20C would be what I need (ability to adjust would be EXCELLENT). How do I go about accomplishing my goal.  Has the Daewoo KSD602 thermostat - http://www.daewood.com.hk/en/productdetail.asp?id=122&sortid=210&pid=.
> > > 
> > > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator001.jpg
> > > 
> > > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator002.jpg
> > > 
> > > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator003.jpg
> > > 
> > > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator004.jpg
> > > 
> > > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator005.jpg
> > > 
> > > Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.  I did not remove the power board area but have no problems going into that area - I am so close, I just feel the toner is not being 'baked' onto the copper clad quite enough to stand up to the time in the muriatic acid / H2O2 w/ the bubbler and small, important pieces are coming off.  Doing .5mm pitch smd work.
> > > 
> > > Thanks in advance,
> > > Bob
> > >
> >
>


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> ________________________________
>

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Byrne
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 7:16 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Need More Heat - GBC Laminator (pics included)

 

  

What is the ingredients of TSP Solution as I need that to go to drug store? Thanks Kevin

________________________________
From: tda7000 <Tda7000@... <mailto:Tda7000%40xtra.co.nz> >
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>  
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 5:08 AM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Need More Heat - GBC Laminator (pics included)


  
I get the white residue when using magazine paper. You won't get it if you use proper transfer paper.

It doesn't make a difference to the board, just looks weird.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> , "dubob4432" <dubob4432@...> wrote:
>
> Maybe I am using too much heat - I prep as you recommend and once done, I put the piece in water and let the paper come off. Once it dries, the traces are black but slowly turn white as if paper is adhered to the paper.
> 
> Possibly I am going the wrong way? Maybe just 1-2 passes through the laminator and not 10?
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> , "smilingcat90254" <smilingcat@> wrote:
> >
> > I've been using a thermal press with direct temperature read out on the aluminum heat plate. I can set temperature and pressure on the thermal press. 
> > 
> > HP toner will melt around 110C. might be even lower around 105C or so. At lower temperature, the toner may have a harder time fusing onto the copper.
> > 
> > Copper needs to be ultra clean. I use 0000 steel wool. followed by scrubbing with TSP solution using scotch brite (green) pad, then rinse with water then cleaned with isopropyl alcohol. Wear glove through out the process. Laminate image immediately to reduce contaminating the copper surface and oxidation. Someone thought oxidizing in the etcher for few second made the image adhere better. Haven't tried so have no comment about oxidizing surface.
> > 
> > I really do need reliable repeatability down to 6/6 mil. I may go to photoresist. Found a source at around $3.00/ft^2. Not cheap but claims to get images down to 1/1 mil. Stuff is called puretch. Distributor is an artist out of South Carolina. Think and Tinker has similar material not as high performance at around ??$2.00?? per square feet but you need to spend over $100.00 for the minimum quantity.
> > 
> > Result I'm getting out of photopaper of all different kinds, specially formulated toner transfer paper is just not cutting it for me.
> > 
> > Anyway, temperature set it around 105C to about 130C. At 115C and above the plastic coating on the photopaper will decompose and will turn into hard white film.
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> , "dubob4432" <dubob4432@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > > 
> > > I need to get a bit more heat out of this GBC Creative Laminator. Very close but probably another 10-20C would be what I need (ability to adjust would be EXCELLENT). How do I go about accomplishing my goal. Has the Daewoo KSD602 thermostat - http://www.daewood.com.hk/en/productdetail.asp?id=122 <http://www.daewood.com.hk/en/productdetail.asp?id=122&sortid=210&pid=.> &sortid=210&pid=.
> > > 
> > > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator001.jpg
> > > 
> > > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator002.jpg
> > > 
> > > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator003.jpg
> > > 
> > > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator004.jpg
> > > 
> > > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator005.jpg
> > > 
> > > Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. I did not remove the power board area but have no problems going into that area - I am so close, I just feel the toner is not being 'baked' onto the copper clad quite enough to stand up to the time in the muriatic acid / H2O2 w/ the bubbler and small, important pieces are coming off. Doing .5mm pitch smd work.
> > > 
> > > Thanks in advance,
> > > Bob
> > >
> >
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> What is the ingredients of TSP Solution as I need that to go to drug store? Thanks Kevin
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
>  From: tda7000 <Tda7000@...>
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 5:08 AM
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Need More Heat - GBC Laminator (pics included)
>  
> 
> Â  
> I get the white residue when using magazine paper. You won't get it if you use proper transfer paper.
> 
> It doesn't make a difference to the board, just looks weird.
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "dubob4432" <dubob4432@> wrote:
> >
> > Maybe I am using too much heat - I prep as you recommend and once done, I put the piece in water and let the paper come off.  Once it dries, the traces are black but slowly turn white as if paper is adhered to the paper.
> > 
> > Possibly I am going the wrong way?  Maybe just 1-2 passes through the laminator and not 10?
> > 
> > Thoughts?
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "smilingcat90254" <smilingcat@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I've been using a thermal press with direct temperature read out on the aluminum heat plate. I can set temperature and pressure on the thermal press. 
> > > 
> > > HP toner will melt around 110C. might be even lower around 105C or so. At lower temperature, the toner may have a harder time fusing onto the copper.
> > > 
> > > Copper needs to be ultra clean. I use 0000 steel wool. followed by scrubbing with TSP solution using scotch brite (green) pad, then rinse with water then cleaned with isopropyl alcohol. Wear glove through out the process. Laminate image immediately to reduce contaminating the copper surface and oxidation. Someone thought oxidizing in the etcher for few second made the image adhere better. Haven't tried so have no comment about oxidizing surface.
> > > 
> > > I really do need reliable repeatability down to 6/6 mil. I may go to photoresist. Found a source at around $3.00/ft^2. Not cheap but claims to get images down to 1/1 mil. Stuff is called puretch. Distributor is an artist out of South Carolina. Think and Tinker has similar material not as high performance at around ??$2.00?? per square feet but you need to spend over $100.00 for the minimum quantity.
> > > 
> > > Result I'm getting out of photopaper of all different kinds, specially formulated toner transfer paper is just not cutting it for me.
> > > 
> > > Anyway, temperature set it around 105C to about 130C. At 115C and above the plastic coating on the photopaper will decompose and will turn into hard white film.
> > > 
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "dubob4432" <dubob4432@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello,
> > > > 
> > > > I need to get a bit more heat out of this GBC Creative Laminator.  Very close but probably another 10-20C would be what I need (ability to adjust would be EXCELLENT). How do I go about accomplishing my goal.  Has the Daewoo KSD602 thermostat - http://www.daewood.com.hk/en/productdetail.asp?id=122&sortid=210&pid=.
> > > > 
> > > > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator001.jpg
> > > > 
> > > > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator002.jpg
> > > > 
> > > > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator003.jpg
> > > > 
> > > > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator004.jpg
> > > > 
> > > > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator005.jpg
> > > > 
> > > > Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.  I did not remove the power board area but have no problems going into that area - I am so close, I just feel the toner is not being 'baked' onto the copper clad quite enough to stand up to the time in the muriatic acid / H2O2 w/ the bubbler and small, important pieces are coming off.  Doing .5mm pitch smd work.
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks in advance,
> > > > Bob
> > > >
> > >
> >
> 
> 
>  
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

 From: Roland F. Harriston <rolohar@...>
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: TSP
 

  
*From WIKI:
*

*
Trisodium phosphate* (TSP, E339) is a cleaning agent, food additive, 
stain remover and degreaser <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degreaser>. It 
is a white, granular or crystalline solid, highly soluble in water 
producing an alkaline solution. The item of commerce is often partially 
hydrated and may range from anhydrous trisodium phosphate, Na_3 PO_4 , 
to the dodecahydrate, Na <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium>_3 P 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphorus>O 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen>_4 ·12H_2 O. Most often found in 
white powder form, it can also be called *trisodium orthophosphate* or 
just plain *sodium phosphate*. Trisodium phosphate was at one time 
extensively used in formulations for a wide variety of consumer grade 
soaps and detergents, but ecological problems have largely ended that 
practice, at least in the western world. Substitutes are not as 
effective, but the raw chemical can be bought in bulk to add to other 
detergents.^ <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trisodium_phosphate#cite_note-2>

Roland F. Harriston, P.D.
*******************

>
> ________________________________
>


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 From: smilingcat90254 <smilingcat@...>
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 1:08 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Need More Heat - GBC Laminator (pics included)
 

  
TSP (Trisodium phosphate) can be had at Home Depot, Lowes or any paint shop. It is a very strong degreaser with good wetting characteristics. only need about teaspoon to about a tablespoon per quart of water. Quart is about a litre off hand. I'll weigh out TSP in grams later and will advise. It is also alkaline so it doesn't corrode the copper.

The thin white film left over after cleaning is a very thin plastic layer with lower MP than the clear film on the photopaper you are removing. Photopaper has a very thin plastic layer at the top. Underneath is a thicker clear plastic layer with higher MP. Underneath is the paper backing. Backside has another layer of opaque matt plastic layer. There may be more to it but this is what I found out so far.

from top to bottom:
very thin plastic with low MP  (top layer)
thick clear plastic with higher MP
paper
matt white plastic with even higher MP (bottom layer or backside)

Ms. Smilingcat

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Byrne <kbyrne10@...> wrote:
>
> What is the ingredients of TSP Solution as I need that to go to drug store? Thanks Kevin
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
>  From: tda7000 <Tda7000@...>
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 5:08 AM
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Need More Heat - GBC Laminator (pics included)
> 
> 
> Â  
> I get the white residue when using magazine paper. You won't get it if you use proper transfer paper.
> 
> It doesn't make a difference to the board, just looks weird.
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "dubob4432" <dubob4432@> wrote:
> >
> > Maybe I am using too much heat - I prep as you recommend and once done, I put the piece in water and let the paper come off.  Once it dries, the traces are black but slowly turn white as if paper is adhered to the paper.
> > 
> > Possibly I am going the wrong way?  Maybe just 1-2 passes through the laminator and not 10?
> > 
> > Thoughts?
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "smilingcat90254" <smilingcat@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I've been using a thermal press with direct temperature read out on the aluminum heat plate. I can set temperature and pressure on the thermal press. 
> > > 
> > > HP toner will melt around 110C. might be even lower around 105C or so. At lower temperature, the toner may have a harder time fusing onto the copper.
> > > 
> > > Copper needs to be ultra clean. I use 0000 steel wool. followed by scrubbing with TSP solution using scotch brite (green) pad, then rinse with water then cleaned with isopropyl alcohol. Wear glove through out the process. Laminate image immediately to reduce contaminating the copper surface and oxidation. Someone thought oxidizing in the etcher for few second made the image adhere better. Haven't tried so have no comment about oxidizing surface.
> > > 
> > > I really do need reliable repeatability down to 6/6 mil. I may go to photoresist. Found a source at around $3.00/ft^2. Not cheap but claims to get images down to 1/1 mil. Stuff is called puretch. Distributor is an artist out of South Carolina. Think and Tinker has similar material not as high performance at around ??$2.00?? per square feet but you need to spend over $100.00 for the minimum quantity.
> > > 
> > > Result I'm getting out of photopaper of all different kinds, specially formulated toner transfer paper is just not cutting it for me.
> > > 
> > > Anyway, temperature set it around 105C to about 130C. At 115C and above the plastic coating on the photopaper will decompose and will turn into hard white film.
> > > 
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "dubob4432" <dubob4432@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello,
> > > > 
> > > > I need to get a bit more heat out of this GBC Creative Laminator.  Very close but probably another 10-20C would be what I need (ability to adjust would be EXCELLENT). How do I go about accomplishing my goal.  Has the Daewoo KSD602 thermostat - http://www.daewood.com.hk/en/productdetail.asp?id=122&sortid=210&pid=.
> > > > 
> > > > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator001.jpg
> > > > 
> > > > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator002.jpg
> > > > 
> > > > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator003.jpg
> > > > 
> > > > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator004.jpg
> > > > 
> > > > http://www.bnkz.com/GBC/Laminator005.jpg
> > > > 
> > > > Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.  I did not remove the power board area but have no problems going into that area - I am so close, I just feel the toner is not being 'baked' onto the copper clad quite enough to stand up to the time in the muriatic acid / H2O2 w/ the bubbler and small, important pieces are coming off.  Doing .5mm pitch smd work.
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks in advance,
> > > > Bob
> > > >
> > >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]